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Driving whilst high

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by bluenavey00, Sep 10, 2015.

  1. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

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    I was just trying to bring a little calm :)

    DOH! the stupid report button, sorry man, chemo-brain? sheesh! :)
     
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  2. His_Highness

    His_Highness In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

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    2,337
    I was very active in this thread early on. After awhile I stopped posting because this thread is the poster child for "he who doesn't know history is doomed to repeat it".

    If anyone were to read this thread from the beginning you can't help but notice how it seems to recycle the same viewpoints and conversational sequences.

    Don't get me wrong ... everyone is entitled to post their own opinions, and should, but if you read the earlier posts you can't be surprised at the eventual outcome which is basically agree to disagree ;)
     
  3. ClearBlueLou

    ClearBlueLou unbearably light in the being....

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    Some conversations are indeed circular - like the tipping scene in Resevoir Dogs.
    Viewpoints change over time, based on experience, and this is to be expected.

    Self-management evolves with self-awareness, everything improves with practice.

    Play safe, drive safe, stay safe.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
  4. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

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    When I grew up on the WESTERN USA 405 was a 2 lane hwy?
    2-day we have a MEGA FREEWAY!

    Joni MITCHELL summed it up with : BIG YELLOW TAXI

    No parking lots?
     
  5. ClearBlueLou

    ClearBlueLou unbearably light in the being....

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    This probably deserves its own thread, but a number here have mentioned that they are quite comfortable with complex tasks while high, and a number vehemently disagree that this can be a thing. The fact is, “getting high” is a thing, a form of entertainment unto itself, during one’s ‘early use’ period. Getting high is the thing then, and whole friendships are based sometimes on who can out-smoke the other, as well as a ton of internet surfing and drive-by posting and unfortunate purchases.

    At some point, however, (and this may relate directly to an individual’s age, or their level of endocannabinoid activation, rather than questions of tolerance), getting high stops being like a Cheech and Chong movie (and C&C stop being funny, mostly), and being “blitzed outta yer mind” stops being one’s entertainment center. Once being stoned as fuck isn’t the point of the exercise anymore, the relationship with cannabis shifts profoundly.

    A lot of people begin meditating and/or doing yoga at this point in their personal evolution because the shifts in perspective and the physical relaxation are potentiated by cannabis, making the practices both more enjoyable and more effective. People take up new hobbies, new activities, new interests, even new careers, as part of and in response to that fundamental shift in one’s relationship with cannabis.

    As for “where’s the science” we’re just now creeping up on the possibility of doing exactly that kind of research. In the meantime, people will continue to move from stoned-as-a-mofo toward pursuits that are more rewarding and which are potentiated by cannabis, and I’m sure every board like this has beaucoup ancient freaks who have experienced what I’m describing and know it to be true for them, too.

    Speaking for myself, I no longer seek “getting high”, I seek getting enough medicine. My cannabis time is spent doing housework, cooking, cleaning, studying, socializing, you name it. Cannabis use is as much a part of my life as waking up and having coffee.

    There are things I can be too stoned to do, even now: stand on ladders, change light bulbs, tackle a stack of paperwork in a hurry, confront people, chase a cat, drive, listen.
     
  6. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

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    Very well written!

    Not that it matters however I agree with your assessment!
     
  7. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    In an attempt to not just keep the same plate turning, how about the law? We are at a momentous time. It seems like cannabis is going to be legal for the vast majority of those in the U.S. One problem that people for and against, Republican and Democrat, rural and urban have with the change has to do with risk to others. There, the most obvious is in driving. I hear no voices advocating for more drivers using cannabis as being a good thing.

    The reality is, many have what they feel are legitimate fears over the risk to *their* life and limb due to other's use and driving. The train of regulation continues on and such fears will not be enough to slow it down, but, that does not mean there is not still a lot of regulation in regards to cannabis and driving that is going to go on to address those fears. People who feel there is no relationship between cannabis usage and the concept of driving under the influence as a crime are simply not going to be considered in the regulations to come. The more such people state that which is opposite to what is obvious to even the most casual observer, the more chance the regulators will take more stringent means to address the problem--thus impacting those who use cannabis in a less reckless manner.

    Yes, drinking is worse. Heck, texting is worse. There are some studies that show any distracted driving might be worse. So? Just because we punish murder does not mean we shouldn't punish battery. Society makes choices and balances risks and sets up a scheme to enforce those choices. The same scheme has to be used for alcohol, purple dank, heroin, caffeine, herbal tea and cannabis. The same scheme has to be used when someone pops a bit of horse for the first time and drives and for when an addict with the shakes does a little to take the edge off.

    Take caffeine; another substance most here have enough experience in to not need medical studies to prove what they already know. A cup of coffee or tea before driving might make one a better driver. A dozen? Between the rocking side to side trying to hold it in and the super fun shakes, it is unlikely a person is not "impaired" if they drove. Now, what of 2 cups? 3? At what point is a cup of coffee before driving illegal? Now, do it with cannabis.

    That shows what is going to happen to those of us who use regularly enough to always have metabolite in our systems. DUI is a crime that has had a huge change in attitude in my lifetime. When young, people would tell funny stories about how wasted they were when they drove and people would laugh. Now, not so much. Personally, I think we've gone too far with per se limits. Especially when the limits of illegality are .08 for most normal adult drivers while the real statistical effects on others don't occur until much higher levels. Nobody in power cares. Nobody in power is going to jump on the grenade to allow .08 drivers on the highway. Which gets to the bottom line:

    If our society of users take driving under the influence of cannabis lightly, our society in general will use increasingly strict methods to get us to comply. Right now, alcohol is the demon. It is not going to take much to push anti-cannabis legislatures to focus on the harm of cannabis DUI and start allocating resources to it. Then, we'll be graced for a few years of cops trained to detect cannabis use without any studies to show at what point it becomes influential in one's driving ability. What happens then?

    When a person gets pulled over an there is any indication they have used recently, they will be arrested.

    I would prefer more of a caffeine/aspirin theory of DUI for cannabis. People don't get arrested unless there is some provable impairment connected to the drug. Sadly, because of how some treat the issue so casually, its going to be an alcohol model were we must "Think of the Children!" and "If we can just save ONE life!" will be the guidepost of polite society in stomping us down. Per se limits? Check. Checkpoints? Check. A linked database between purchasers and license checks on stop? Well, its a good thing we all kept our official county medical cards as HIPPA would protect us. Rec? It's not like we're driving over the Canadian border. Would the police really want to put a cannabis user who is driving in jail?
     
  8. waxdab23

    waxdab23 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Thank you for articulating in a way that I, and I'm assuming many others, could not.

    So on point man. What a great post!
     
  9. ClearBlueLou

    ClearBlueLou unbearably light in the being....

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    Location:
    the Old Confederacy
    I understand your concerns, and I am not one to throw the baby out with the bath water, but I can’t tell if your concern is for the potential victim, the law, or the community. It sounds like you have a sense we should socially engineer ourselves in a way that won’t make “other people” uneasy?

    I think it’s perfectly possible to take all your points seriously. *IF* legalization brings with it an increase in traffic deaths and injuries, then options need to be considered to mitigate the situation. If legalization does NOT bring our highway carnage to biblical levels, then we may safely assume that our laws are as sane as they were before legal ot.

    *IF* social forces opposed to cannabis can find a reason to blacken the eye of legal cannabis, then that’s on us as individuals, because they will of course use it, but our last president showed us that one doesn’t always achieve one’s ends by starting in the middle. I agree with your final paragraph: impairment should be provable. Personally, I drive like a grandpa with the focus of a zen monk. I have never been pulled over. I can’t think of a better way to proceed than to examine the studies currently available, and keep looking out for more studies as more states become free states.

    https://www.cannabisculture.com/content/2017/04/25/science-shows-cannabis-users-safe-drivers/

     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  10. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    1,525
    I have concerns for all. In the last post, I pointed out an individual's power to affect the broad community attitude towards us and tried to show how, if there is a casual attitude to cannabis and driving from those in the cannabis community, it is going to hurt me, you and all in that community.

    I, too, grew up near Disneyland. Since becoming cynical as I got older, I began to be able to predict things better. I guess we'll see if our legislators use calm, rational judgment based on all the facts or listen to their constituents that want to keep drugged drivers off the road.

    By the way, the laws and policies are being written NOW. Not at some theoretical future date of *IF* we find something out from studies.

    That black eye will be well deserved and will influence the rights you and I have.

    Edit:
    Just thought to add a quote I previously posted in the favorite quotes section.

    "Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their
    disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, — in
    proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, — in
    proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above
    their vanity and presumption, — in proportion as they are more disposed
    to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the
    flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power
    upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is
    within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal
    constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters."

    --Edmund Burke​
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
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  11. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

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    I say FUCK da HUMAN’s that take away our right to enjoy this DOT we live on!
    Edmund BURKE didn’t say that!

    I drove drunk extremely! (Very bad & carelessly)
    I have driven very well MEDICATED on CANNABIS?
    Fact check: I was more careful?

    2-day I miss driving?
    I’m always Medicated?
    Therefore I don’t drive due 2 stupidity by or by our leadership!
     
    Green Kiwi likes this.
  12. ClearBlueLou

    ClearBlueLou unbearably light in the being....

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    TOTALLY don’t get your reference to Disneyland: I grew up on the other side of the country, where people were being lynched for an accusation when I was a kid - unless you want to say I’m living in a Fantasyland, in which case SAY it. BAD LAW IS *NOT* GOOD. HOPING FOR BAD LAW IS *NOT* A GOOD THING.

    Seems plain that you want cannabis users to be as scared of the police under “legalization” as you are, or you want us to take up extreme policing of our own IN HOPES that the laws that “are being written NOW” will be - what? More strict? More draconian? Maybe you just want cannabis users to “be less Jewish”? The cops to be nicer to YOU? I’ve been in this fight for more than fifty years. It’s never been comfortable, it’s never even safe. Now we should back bad laws and shame each other into supporting them?

    Bad law is THE PROBLEM. It has BEEN the problem. If you count yourself as a cannabis user, then bad law is YOUR problem, too. You imply broadly that the cannabis community is to blame for bad law. I fundamentally disagree. You likewise imply that the cannabis community will make the laws WORSE by displaying a cavalier attitude towards “the problem” of impaired driving. On top of that, you discount the life experience of your fellow cannabists without cause, and wish them ill for having opinions based on experiences you don’t have.

    I’m guessing the “old” in OldNewbie (coupled with your Burke quote) that you’re not a kid, and largely conservative, and that the “newbie” part is that you’re new to cannabis. Since you’re new to cannabis, may I suggest that instead of ragging on cannabis users, you direct your efforts to your representatives and let them know that more bad laws are no solution.

    Bad laws haven’t taken cannabis away from the people or kept users off the road, and more bad laws won’t change that fact. Sound policy would dictate waiting to see what legalization brings. Your advocacy might do some real good if you use it well.

     
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  13. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    My arguments were made by taking the side of those who feel cannabis use is unrelated to driving ability. I don't take that position. It flies in the face of my experience and numerous studies showing psychological and physiological effects from use. I'm not ragging on cannabis users, I'm ragging on those who think they can safely drive when under the influence of it.
     
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  14. ataxian

    ataxian PALE BLUE DOT

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    Let me tell U my view?

    FANTASYLAND is a non-fiction book by “Kurt ANDERSEN “ nice quick read about how The USA thinks in general.

    We all have different POSITIONS based on where we grew up & how?
     
  15. chris 71

    chris 71 Well-Known Member

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    452
    Would i want a newbie cannabis user on the same road as me high . driving beside me , or behind me probabbly not .

    With that said i know some people can drive just fine while using cannabis .

    Look at my advatar pic , that is a chain saw carving about 11 feet tall 30 inches wide and about 8 inchces thick .

    Every inch of it done while using lots of cannabis . i had no training on using a chain saw . taught my self while high .

    Would i recomend evey body trying it lol no !

    Would i attempt the same thing while drinking beers no way !! lol i would probbably be missing a hand foot or leg or maybe even dead if i did .

    Whats my point ? There is a huge difference between the imparment that cannabis can cause and alchol in my experience .

    Do i drive high no i dont , have i , yes i have .

    Could i drive high yes i could . would i be imparred no i dont belive soo. . i belive i would be a better driver then 75 percent of the drivers out there .

    But what i belive or even know dosent matter .. I dont get to make the rules and unfortunay the ruke have to be made for the greater good . if i drive high and get in an accedent even if not my fault andai have cannabis in my system the risk is to great that i could be up shit creek without a paddle. So i dont drive high .

    Imparred by cannabis though ? Not me . its soo different then other imparring substances .

    But its just not worth the risk if you ask me
     
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  16. ClearBlueLou

    ClearBlueLou unbearably light in the being....

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    Location:
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    “Chump don’ want no help, chump don’ get no help”

     
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  17. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    yeah, when I was a teenager/early 20's, I could get deeply baked, go take a shower, wash my hair, brush my teeth, drop some visine and not exactly a walking self-bust (still with the long hair)... drive without feeling hugely paranoid... which reminds me (for all of those who remember him) I drove with some folks who were like Don Knotts behind the wheel :)
    I had larger issues with folks combining stuff and thinking they were Superman (teenage immortality).
    if push came to shove, I am sure I could drive, but I'd rather not.
     
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  18. vapirtoo

    vapirtoo Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Ah Stu, just as the debate was getting heated and interesting; sort of like the old times when I first joined some six years back. As I have posted before, I do not enjoy driving while super high. I do enjoy driving lightly buzzed as with three good pulls on a Launch Box. All of my four fender benders happened when I was not impaired, and I was driving like racer X. This is after 50 plus years of driving every day in Queens N.Y. I feel that falling asleep behind the wheel causes more deadly accidents than anything else. IMHO
     
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  19. Gigsabits53

    Gigsabits53 Well-Known Member

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    This is an interesting topic to me. I will start by saying that I don't enjoy driving when I'm high, especially on the highway or interstate where the rates of speed are greater. For me personally, I dont think its safe for me to be driving impaired at those speeds. Have I done it before? Yes, but do not enjoy it.

    I wonder though, how many people are driving every day under the influence of Rx drugs? I think that's a high number. Now maybe many of those drugs do not "impair" you like marijuana does, but certainly some of them do. I think it's a good debate to have. An every day marijuana user will build up a certain tolerance to where its normal to be high, so to speak.

    Anyway, if I have to drive, I would just rather wait to partake until I get to my destination.
     
  20. looney2nz

    looney2nz Research Geek, Mad Scientist

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    you are on the mark, the number of folks driving altered from OTC and prescription drugs is incredibly high.
     
  21. HerbieVonVapster

    HerbieVonVapster Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    785
    Jump in this one late. Have mixed feelings since I use it medically to reduce the muscle spasm that make driving difficult if not impossible. At same time I feel if it still gets you high you shouldn’t be driving on it.

    I feel for medical user it’s like any other prescribed medication once you’ve adjusted to the effect it’s no different than driving on other prescription medication. If it’s legal to drive on pain medication and muscle relaxer once you know the effects, why should this medication be any different?

    I use large amounts everyday have for years. Without it can barely walk and wouldn’t even be able to drive safely.

    There tons of people on the road that’s drugged up on prescription medications that can function and drive why should medical marijuana have different rules?
     
  22. mccringleberry

    mccringleberry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    808
    Above all, dont forget the important catchphrase that law enforcement came up with:

    Drive sober, get pulled over.

    Oh wait.
    How does it go?
     
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  23. analytika

    analytika Well-Known Member

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    One of the best things I've read on this site in a long time. Bravo.
     
  24. EverythingsHazy

    EverythingsHazy Well-Known Member

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    “Medical” and “recreational” use are the same thing.

    There is no reason to differentiate between the two in this discussion, unless you support a legal ban on recreational users driving under the influence of Cannabis. If not, “getting high” is the same exact thing as “taking my medicine”.

    The only thing that matters here, is if Cannabis use impairs the driving ability of the majority of people who are tested in a proper experimental study. If it does, it should be restricted. If it doesn’t, it should be allowed.
     
    ClearBlueLou likes this.

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