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DIY - fast heat coil regulated

Discussion in 'DIY' started by P.A.M., Jan 3, 2018.

  1. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

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    Location:
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    im throwing this out there having some experience working with wood. Surely others on this forum who do, I see many awesome vapes and stems and accessories hand crafted by many members in this forum .

    I believe all members of FC have a niche of their own , different knowledge and skills that makes all of us unique .

    I've been vaping for year , have seen all the desktops and portable vaporizers thanks to this forum. I haven't tried many vaporizers (my bamboo HI log serves me well , so does my vapcap M , my two weapons of choice for in&out scenarios) but I've been wanting to DIY-build my own wooden vape ever since I started vaporizing. I did try a few other vaporizers prior to find my two current go to vapes.

    I do wish to have a portable log type or more experience , for micro dosing to small bowl size. it seems that the recent heater system of choice utilised in such vapes as the milanna , Zion , iHeat, Splinter , lil'bud and timber , perhaps others , are the next generation of heaters for a superior vaping experience .

    I know there as been questioning about if the heater concept was copied or if business arrangements were made with Ryan from RBT , the original creator of this particular type of heater.

    It's already being done and redone , it's always just a matter of time . is it wrong to give it try ? It might prove difficult to find and source parts to build only 1 units but maybe this thread can sort help sort these things out see it's it worth it to DIY!

    I for one would like to know what the heater consists of and what the parts are. I have weird a few electronics before , i don't doubt it will be problem to make things work .

    This is not to discredit or cooy anyone of their work or concept , it's by pure know how in wood work and lack of knowledge in heaters.. it would be a good project for self enjoyment and proudness of having DIY

    In the Mods I trust , they'll be the judge if this thread shall remain open or not . Lol

    The following is mostly ideas of members I read and stored in a brain cell. This would be for a handheld unit , not a cartridge , but It seems employ the same design .
    Specs:
    -Battery longevity, size
    -Power Switch or button ? Had read a member suggesting a switch once somewhere , wish I'd remember who. All these soecis are member's ideas I'd either agree on or not .
    -Regulated or not?
    -Mouthpiece and Prefered size?

    All I can think of for now , will add more and those of you who know a thing or two or have input , features that would be cool with such a heater , please share !!!! lets put our brains together and see what can become of this. Might help settle things too so that no one feels ripped off or like they are copying others, instead let this DIY be , the CopyVap
     
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  2. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    Ok so I think the best approach to simplify things would be to figure out a harness schematic or wiring diagram of the electronics. We(if anyone else jumps in) could do 1,2 or 3 different diagrams to cover most popular specs people desire. Such as regulated or unregulated , number of battery used and/or other.

    Having those diagrams and the parts names, anyone who feels the DIY syndrome could then possibly create his or her own wooden box or improvise with other materials , layout , etc, to house the electronics/heater .

    The electronic circuit can't be that complicated, it's a matter of knowing that parts are compAtible , length of heater coil perhaps, potentiometer size , power button or switch voltage rating and such. This paragraph is where I need help.

    What does a fast heat coil heater consist of ? Or where are those parts usually used elsewhere on other products other then vaping ?

    What size/rating potentiometer would be required for 18650 batteries ?

    Any recommended switch or button to power on the unit ?

    Other heater options could be reviewed too. The idea of a fast heAting coil with long lasting battery life does sound great . No mod box , simple and pure.
    I personally like a small diameter stem for micro dosing , 10mm inside diameter. It be somewhat more stealth too while out and vaping . Sure people can still see you draw , it could look like a milkshake from a distance , as where a 20mm'ish stem becomes less mistakable for a straw..

    Perhaps I'm the only one interes in this project, lol, I'll do more research on my part , I apologize that I don't have more to go on for now, really winging this project and reaching out rather then just ponder on it with no progress .
    Thanks to all who participate in advance .
     
    Andreaerdna, rz and The Beagle like this.
  3. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    177
    Doing is the best way to learn so kudo's for taking this on. There's a lot to think about though..

    Firstly, I'm not specifically familiar with resistive heating elements for vaporization use but have a bit of other relevant experience.

    Ohms law and power equation are important to understand, or at least keep the math in mind.

    V = I*R

    P=V*I => P = I^2 * R = V^2 / R

    For a BALLPARK evaluation:
    Expect required power usage to be about the 50~80 Watt region. Let's say about 65Watt. Meaning, a single ~3.7V LiPo battery would need to run at -> I=P/V=65/3.7=18 Amps using a coil with resistance of V^2/P= 0.2Ohm. If using 2xLipo in serial (7.4V) , you could get away with about 9A though about 0.85ohm..

    These are ballparks. Theres a lot more to include in the equation like internal resistance, etc.

    Most of these currents would fry a small switch, possibly melt the casing and short the contacts into a frizzle. I would wouldn't want to be holding any LiPos in my hand when that happens. The best way to switch this current on/off would be with a transistor, specifically a MOSFET. Unfortunately thats all I got time for now. Will add a few more cents next time :)
     
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  4. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    Thanks @rz ! Indeed , I'm aware of the danger , I won't be randomly trying different configurations in hopes of success. Going to try and stick with tried and tested concepts , for now anyways. Appreciate your time and post, I'll reread and learn from it no doubt !!

    Another fc member directed me to modparts.co.uk to look at their circuit boards and other gear .

    I'm already 2 steps ahead then was 12 hrs ago thanks to you guys .
     
    rz likes this.
  5. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Nah, anything between 25W and 50W is more than ample enough for on-demand convection. You might use slightly higher power if you have some form of temperature control, like 70W for instance but that's already taxing for most high-discharge cells in a a single-cell setup. The Tubo does the initial ramping up using up to 70W but it can afford it because it's brief AND because the mod box contains code to detect weak cells by measuring excessive voltage sag as well as over-temperature conditions etc.

    I wouldn't use more than 50W in a single unregulated cell setup for safety reasons. The Milaana is about 40W peak (I forgot the figure for mine but I computed it at some point and posted it somewhere) The MVT is lower, I'd say closer to 30W. On the Project I vape at 30W and on the iHeat I use 28W. Those values suit my vaping style using the vapes dry with direct draw and no water filtration.

    People using bubblers tend to need more watts, but 50W is already a lot, you shouldn't need more. At least for a portable. Now if you want to make a desktop vape, the sky is the limit, as you wouldn't use batteries in this case anyway and you could easily pull 1 to 3 KW out of the mains without any problem (that wouldn't make any sense of course as it's about what your average home electric heater pulls)
     
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  6. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    Thank you , @KeroZen , Staying under 50W seems quite reasonable. Been re reading other threads and people in general seem to prefer high twenties to low/mid 30's for this type of heater. And those people probably push their units. You always seem to have quality performance and safety in mind . Wish you are around when time for me (or others too I hope!) to try my diy , because I'd definitely like to double check things with you before firing it and blowing myself up !

    Learnt more, I read coil is made from SS316 wire . Not sure how it's spiraled and if those two ends serve as the wires that connect to circuit or if two wires join that spiral "coil" to the circuit ? it's a start :)

    Someone shared this link http://www.modparts.co.uk/boards/381-evolv-dna75-0638183554951.html

    Link is for a DNA circuit board utilized in mod boxes. That one seems abit long or bulky in size, I didn't review sizes, also abit pricey but I'm not looking to sell the vapes, more just build one for myself . If still under cost of already built vape, I'd still be ahead , minus my time true, but that's part of the DIY .. I would prefer abit smaller board and a few bucks less if possible . It's a great idea all the same .

    Would that be cool or is a push buttton fire and knob temp control easier, cost efficient and about the same results a circuit board would provide ?

    I read in a post by Kerozen that with a board it's 2 wires to heater and 2 to battery case / brackets ... rather simple as far as that step goes.. not everybody is comfortable with soldering wires, true, but I'd say lots of people do know someone who does or perhaps could.

    I will draft down a few wiring schemes once having more knowledge and share them here for approval and review.

    It would be nice to have a regulated (temperature or "voltage" control) unit..

    -10 to 14mm stem for more pocket friendly and stealth approach.

    -fast coil heater

    -a box of wood (or other) that incorporates the heater , a battery , and electronics.

    If all 3 above are lined up, it could make for not too bad a size vaporizer. Almost a side by side cartridge and mod box , but instead no 510 connections, just one solid unit.

    Maybe if size permitted a hole to store your stem.. space between heater and battery/circuit could serve as stem keeper perhaps? Probably best to not have battery beside heater, same for circuit board or control pots.

    Will keep reading threads for more info on heater and how it's made.

    Awesome fc!
     
    KeroZen and boon like this.
  7. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Yes those DNA75 boards are excellent. You can find them perhaps somewhat cheaper on US sites though. They are indeed ultra simple to assemble. You just need a plate for the control panel with cutouts for the buttons, and button caps for + and - and for the trigger. There are I think some ready-made plates around on custom modder sites, or you could have one easily 3D printed by some online service and delivered to your door.

    But to me it's less fun than building everything from scratch and programming a MCU etc.. But I have weird hobbies due to what I do for work hehe. Using a ready-made board is by far the simplest, albeit marginally pricier.

    Keep us posted!
     
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  8. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  9. Andreaerdna

    Andreaerdna If God is the answer, then the question is wrong

    Messages:
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    Nice starting point

    Maybe better to find an alternative way to handle battery though, the copper door at the top is stylish but:

    1) the opening of battery compartment right in front of your face is a big NOT (in case of venting I would like it bursting hot chemicals away from my face)
    2) copper exposed to air/humidity and human touching will definitely build up an insulator patina needing extra cleaning where cleaning should not be necessary
    3) relying electric connection on the threaded part of the screw is also a source of electrical issues, dirt build up and again annoying unnecessary cleaning

    Have little time these days forecoming, but will follow this thread
     
    P.A.M. likes this.
  10. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

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    Location:
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    Yeah. I did read in Milaana pages of experiences where people's copper doors required cleaning due to patina buildup for their MI to work properly again. I agree with you on that and battery blow up, this way you get 2 batteries , one for each eye, ouch !! .. This was my lazy approach of not having to worry about a battery cover which would take up more skill and labor .

    The base plate would be screwed to bottom, fitting all the electrical together under the heater and batteries.

    thank you , was having fun being bored last night, the same triangle shape could be used in a unregulated vape , utilizing what would be the second battery space as a stem storage instead..
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  11. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    451
    Location:
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    Hey everyone ,

    Here is a computerized drawing of the sketch I posted the other day . It was made by @Rat0 . I had posted my drawing in the diy milaana thread too and RatO responded with is !

    https://m.imgur.com/a/1dpx9


    That is pretty neat ain't it ?

    RatO, please read @Andreaerdna post just up above in regards to the copper door and safety. I do agree with him that the style of connection is not the greatest and safest.

    I read in another thread that you have experience in industrial design , my question to you is;

    do you have any suggestions or idea that would cover the batteries fully and make it safe or safer ? What is your thoughts on the copper door's safety or not?

    It would make building / less labour extensive then having to build/shape a door of wood , add magnets , simply to cover the batteries..

    I find the vaporizers with wood door attachments must be a pain to build! it needs to be precise and takes time to do cleanly I'm sure even for the average wood worker . Its a part of the vaporizer that isn't necessarily part of its mechanical procedure too.

    Are there some type of metal plate with opening latch that could work ?

    -------------
    Heater

    I do have a shape idea for a high surface mesh coil heater .

    I've installed a lot of infloor heating pipes/tubing. Hot water runs through the pipes in a loop to heat the floor. an efficient way to keep your water return hot is install it in spiral that returns on its self .
    If you were to install your pipe up and down in rows , the end of the loop would have cooled down considerably by the time it reaches the end..

    I know I ain't describing this very good, here is a drawing of it below .. the black arrows are the "feed" the blue arrows are the "return" . Notice how to return passes in between two already hot "feeds" .

    http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2d2iotx&s=9#.WmZ3RkFybYU

    I think this effect could create a nice even roast :)

    @Alan ,or @Bravesst any thoughts on the heater layout in link above ? Maybe you have already tried this or would try it or offer us sound advice . a wood stem would be nice if it prooves efficient, lmao, joking ..

    -----------
    Controls
    I still like the DNA board option too that some have mentioned .

    It be cool to keep it simple perhaps: power button , temp knob , safety kill switch perhaps ..

    Happy vaping
     
    rz and Alan like this.
  12. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    1,075
    Location:
    Denver area
    @P.A.M. - That is like a galactic or double spiral. I was planning to try that configuration on my next coil build. It will make it easier to connect the wires to the 510 deck. My only concern is that there may be too much center heat that will cause uneven roasting. Only one way to find out though. The single spiral has the wire/connector in the center to block some of the center air flow so that there isn't too much heat in the center. Great that there are so many different configurations that will work to heat the air. Finding the best for the situation just takes some experimenting. Never stop thinking of a better way to make things.
     
  13. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
    451
    Location:
    Planet Earth, North America
    @Alan oh cool! I thought the galactic spiral started from the middle with two lines starting in middle and circling towards the outwards...

    I'm not sure if the centre would get too hot or not in this application , definitely smaller and hotter then a home floor lol thank you, Alan!
     
  14. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    You don't want to have an air-tight battery compartment, you need adequate venting holes in case of thermal runaway, and that means not just a few pin holes, something larger. And they must be close to the battery positive side(s) as this is where they vent.
     
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  15. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Thank you @KeroZen , adequate ventilation for the battery compartment noted! Great to have your input on this !!

    Definitely a path in the right direction for any diy'er and a cool "community project" here on fc .

    Thinking it be best to come up with two versions, one with a board such as DNA example and one with more vintage switches and knobs approach. Both sound great!

    2 versions , for each:
    -parts list
    -wiring diagram
    -general how to and safety practices
    -parts list .

    ( heater we could work on something OR could use the vandy vape mesh rda . could it be installed within a wood body ? ) It could perhaps help keep things safer if compatible .

    I'll gather all websites and links together Every now and then to keep a summary of things .

    Let's keep it simple , efficient and safe :)
     
    Bravesst, rz and KeroZen like this.
  16. Rat0

    Rat0 Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Saint Petersburg, Russia
    I'll think about it, have some thoughts but they need further research (something like that https://imgur.com/a/Z7X8I). The copper door is not the safest one and you're have patina for sure on it after some time of use. But this element is soooo stylish kinda steampunk stuff

    A cnc machine could work good for this purpose if you have access to one

    Heater design is the most difficult part for me, but it also could be 3d printed
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  17. P.A.M.

    P.A.M. Vapo Rising

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    Location:
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    Thank you @Rat0 . Yes I do agree the copper door is stylish visually.

    Correct that a cnc machine would make a wooden battery door easier . If only building one unit by hand , it wouldn't be that bad to take the time and do it if wanting to eliminate the use of copper door . I'm just trying to keep build easy for everyone.

    Only thing I wonder about 3D printing is what material people use to print with. Is it ceramic, epoxy or other that comes out of printer ?

    Here is what Vapwood's lil'bud heater looks like . Maybe it can help you or a similar design could be used in this diy project.

    https://instagram.com/p/BeQEeQOF840/

    I have a vapwood lil'bud coming my way shortly !!!! :) it will halt my need for a diy on-demand vape diy. will still keep this thread going for others and wishfully build my own temp control vape one day. I'll have the lil'bud to keep me focused on the project that's for sure , sooo looking forward to receiving it and trying my first on-demand vape :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  18. Berimbolero

    Berimbolero New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Hi, I have a question regarding coils and atomizers that I always felt shy to ask about. What are the main differences of the existing coils for e-cig and the DIY coils that are made for dry herb and why cant you use the e-cig coils for on-demand dry herb vaping? Thanks in advance :)
     
    P.A.M. likes this.
  19. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    E-cig coils are meant for conduction via wicking immersed in liquid, whereas we need high surface area to efficiently heat up air to provide convection.
     
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