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DIY Bulli Vaporizer

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Pipes, May 16, 2012.

  1. E0x

    E0x Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    134
    i like that coil , what are the ohms reading of this coils and what are the config you are using in your mod , thanks
     
  2. enjiatt

    enjiatt Active Member

    Messages:
    81
    I no longer using 18 gauge wire because my atomizers just don't like wire that big. At least the screws don't lol.

    This build is with 20 Gauge ss 316L at .50 OHM's using big elb at 530. I think my TCR for this build is 170 on my DNA. Once the coil pre heat is done it takes about 56W continuous to keep it powered continuously.

    the other build on my rx200 is 20 gauge ss 316l .36 ohm's. TCR 171. Uses mini elb this is at 480F

    [​IMG]
    this is the amount that was for the next test video.
    I turned the heat down a little too much on the middle elb so in the video it doesnt get as dark but still vapes evenly.

    Click to play YouTube Video


    This was my new portable that was at the end of the video. Doesnt get hot on the lips and it prevents me accidentally spitting on my herb lol. and that first hit is just so thick its crazy.If I had any wood skills I would turn that entire bottom part into wood and keep the glass top.

    This fits so perfect that it feels like its made for it.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. StonerSloth

    StonerSloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    98
    Dude 56W continuous power is nuts - Zion sort of power!

    The big ELB's are robbing some of that, but still - that thing is a heavy hitter!!


    Where are your air inlet holes on the rigs using the ground glass adapters & keck clips? I want to try to recreate something like that with my Kayfun Mini but I guess I need to drill air holes in either the base or the glass???
     
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  4. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    I agree. Could it be 5.6 watts after temp is reached without drawing sounds more like it...? 15 watt and over will get it glowing.

    On a different note, the DNA mod has been mentioned a few times. I was really interested in the reason why it is so much more money. Basically, it's seems it's the way it regulates and doesn't exhibit oscillation like pretty much all other cheaper mods. OTOH, the oscillation is averaged out and the end result should really be undetectable. I picked the worst case (driest wick) comparison chart as we are using it dry which is the worst case.

    [​IMG]

    The DNA only has an initial overshoot which is done on purpose as a pre heat.
    Just an interesting comparison to share. Information was found here.
    For the EVic Mini chart check it here. It actually looks pretty good.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2016
  5. enjiatt

    enjiatt Active Member

    Messages:
    81
    @Pipes
    I do get a faint glow if im using the big Elb, not a glow when using the mini elb. I just checked again and its right around 45 to 50 w continuous on the DNA graph depending on how fast im drawing. (this is also a big coil I mean .50 ohms with 20 gauge wire. thats a decent amount of metal)

    Its a lot of power :-) I feel like a mad scientist. THe portable rig I have with the rx200 only uses about 40w-45w continuous power but I have it set higher so the preheat is super quick. (.36 ohms with 20 gauge wire)

    [​IMG]

    @StonerSloth THe big elb really only takes more energy because of the distance from the heat source. WHen I use the smaller elbs i turn the heat down about 40 degrees.

    I have no complaints with performance with these two rigs. as long as there is airflow and enough heat it works perfect.
     
  6. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Wow, get the huge bowl out with multiple hoses. It's party time. Seriously, that's wild! :rockon:Excellent construction. Opens up crazy schemes. A screen could be placed mid way way in the m-m adapter and invert a second one attached via clip, screen and O ring between. Could hold one hell of a lot of goodness.
    So when's the party?
    I like it!
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  7. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
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    Location:
    On Air
    @Pipes : thanks for sharing those graphs. Surprisingly what the evic displays on its screen looks more like the first oscillation graph so I was surprised to see smooth ones in the link.

    Are we sure that in those graphs the mod really enters into "protection mode"? If they never hit them dry maybe they never really reach the target temp? Because on my screen it clearly alternates with some near zero amps value, some intermediate value, then protection, and cycles...
     
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  8. StonerSloth

    StonerSloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    98
    Same here on eVic Mini and Cuboid.

    Very interesting charts and website @Pipes. That Dani Extreme V2 looks awesome - like a fully adjustable version of the Joyetech One VT mod. I'm really loving that form factor, but 30W isn't going to do it... I shall keep waiting........
     
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  9. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
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    I would assume, (bad word) there is a brief sample and hold for the display. If not, we would never be able to clearly see anything as would be changing so fast. Remember now, the target will be an "average" of the over/ under shoots.
     
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  10. enjiatt

    enjiatt Active Member

    Messages:
    81
    This video is two different vapes with wide open airflow. The first video almost ghosts the entire bowl in that single hit. THe second vape is the same idea but with the mini elb instead. Just wanted to show different ways to get an even vaped bowl. These methods are with distance. and the ELB with a lid.

    When I put the lid on the elb I have to turn the temperature up about 60 to 70 degrees to get a good vape. It is very intersting.


    @Dan Morrison @KeroZen coils are

    SS 316L 20 Gauge
    .50 OHMS
    Surface Area = 881.36 mm²
    Heat capacity 714.48 mJ/K
    Heat flux @50w = 55 mW/mm²

    SS 316L 20 Gauge
    .514 OHMS
    Surface Area = 905.6 mm²
    Heat capacity 735.34 mJ/K
    Heat flux @50w = 55 mW/mm²



    Click to play YouTube Video


    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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  11. Dan Morrison

    Dan Morrison Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    529
    Oh man, that's awesome!!

    I would be interested to know:

    A: How many watts are being applied to the coil while inhaling.

    B: If you turn the device off while inhaling, how immediately does the vapor production stop?

    And thanks so much for the coil information, that's super helpful!
     
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  12. enjiatt

    enjiatt Active Member

    Messages:
    81
    @Dan Morrison

    [​IMG]

    Here you go. The spike in the beginning is the preheat for the coil to heat up quickly.

    Ill do a video tomorrow of me with vapor production stoppage.
     
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  13. enjiatt

    enjiatt Active Member

    Messages:
    81
    @Dan Morrison

    Here is that video

    THis setup has the same design coil but it is just a little small overall.
    .387 ohms
    It looks like It still retains heat for about 5 seconds.

    [​IMG]

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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  14. enjiatt

    enjiatt Active Member

    Messages:
    81
    SOrry I always over saturate the forum with videos.

    First video is the best heat pattern i get with glass so far. i cant get the outer edges of the bowl not matter what I try.
    The taste with the glass is really nice but the big ELB still cooks more even.

    Click to play YouTube Video


    The second video shows how well the temp control works with drastic temperature differences. THis is with two holes in the chimney but now I use a permanent flat screen on the chimney. (The top of both elb caps were stealing heat)

    My draw is very slow so the clouds can be dense and vape very very even. THis goes from 480F to 535F

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2016
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  15. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    So I was looking at the new vape stuff and stumbled upon a coil called a Notch Coil.
    [​IMG]
    These ones measure 5mm diameter and 9mm in length. Stainless steel @.25 ohm. Just thought I'd throw this out there as thought it was a good idea, and easier for some, if we could find a little wider....
     
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  16. funkyjunky

    funkyjunky moooo Manufacturer

    Messages:
    244
    there are also 3.5mm ones but not on fasttech yet. i thought about three of them in parallel maybe on the project deck :)
     
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  17. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,828
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Oh, the thought has crossed my mind. :\
    Quite a few times actually...lol Currently a little pricey. At least comparing to a spool of SS element wire.
    Cool, 2 sizes already, bet larger will not be long. This stuff is changing so fast.
    JoyeTech has new firmware again even. v3.03 comes with a freakin game. Now you can get buzzed and try to beat your score... Too funny.

    :peace:
     
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  18. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    On Air
    Alright, so I received my FT order with lots of goodies inside! I started playing but I'm still waiting for one extra parcel witch accessories in order to get really started. This is why for now I only went for the low hanging fruits.

    Some of you guys surely already have experimented with what will follow and/or came to the same conclusions, but I guess I needed to make my own mistakes in order to really learn. Plus for some reason I really enjoy building and making coils. It's almost an artistic process heh!

    Disclaimer: I ordered a lot of different RDA clones from FT. I usually don't advocate using product clones in general (it's unethical and unfair for the original maker) and I understand the concerns some people have when tiny differences in machining can create a tank that leaks or not. But for our particular application, as long as it is air-tight we're good to go. And those are just machined SS bits, not much can go wrong (note: I avoided any stuff with coatings and always took the plain SS versions, and I also had to wash thoroughly everything as there was a lot of machining oil leftovers)


    KZ's experiments #001 - MKWS Notch Coils in Cali RDA

    [​IMG]

    I bought a pack of SS316L Notch coils from MKWS (SKU 4795100). They are nicely made but relatively fragile (I crushed one inadvertently)

    They are manufacturer rated at 0.2 ohm each, but when installing two in parallel, my evic VTC mini gave a solid 0.08 ohm reading, so I suspect they are lower than 0.2, maybe as low as 0.16 (it's possible that they did the measurement including the long legs, but once you cut them to size it's lower...)


    [​IMG]

    As I was a bit frustrated by the lack of space in "the Project", I wanted to try a fat-ass RDA. So I found 3 candidates and ordered them all. I contemplated getting the Alliance Fat Boy RDA (SKU 4715601) as it is amongst the largest ones available (FT doesn't have any "Mason" clone, which is even bigger!) The Fat Boy is 46mm diameter but I realized the top piece is Delrin and doesn't seem to be removeable. I don't want any Delrin/POM exposed to scorching hot air and the RDA was very pricey so I skipped it.

    Instead I went for the Cali 26650 RDA (SKU 1971600) which is "only" 29.5mm diameter. By chance, the mouthpiece is a perfect friction fit with the new style "Project" stems (that is, those with the slightly smaller OD from the past batch) As I tend to tamp my loads quite some using the FlowerMate scoop tool, I didn't use any lower screen as nothing ever falls from my bowls until I start stirring them (and even after stirring and retamping only a few bits get loose and I blow them away)

    I didn't take any picture with the notch coils installed as I forgot to do it. But this first experiment was pretty bad anyways. Those coils are way too low of a resistance and I had to drive them bright red. It produced a lot of heat, but I didn't manage to get any vapor. Furthermore it was really bad for my battery cell, drawing almost 19A continuous. Everything became super hot, the mod, the cell, the RDA, the stem... but no vapor.

    I figured there was too much air flow and the coils were too small for such a big RDA. As you can see on the picture, air enters from the sides and you can adjust the flow by twisting the top section. I tried closing the holes to the max and still had no vapor.

    Then I realized the holes were too high and air entered right above the coils, having no time to heat. So I had to reverse the middle section in order to get the air intakes lower, but I lost the ability to vary the opening in the process... I nonetheless tried to align the holes right in front of the coils... to no avail! End of experiment #001.


    KZ's experiments #002 - Notch Coils in Fishbone 23mm RDA

    I then moved the coils to a very promising RDA, the Fishbone 23mm version (SKU 3410701) For less than $7 with a spare glass tank you can't go wrong! I took the 23mm version instead of the 22mm one, and I was lucky again because it's a good fit for the "Project" stem (although I had to use a couple O-rings to prevent it from sliding down, so I imagine it would be a better fit with the original stems that are larger, to be confirmed...)


    [​IMG]


    There are 4 bottom holes for the air-flow. The base is in fact a clone of the Kennedy RDA with a central pole and it's easy to build on. The shell is glass but I was disappointed when I discovered that the red color is just an external coating that you can peel easily (curse you Chinese people!) At least it's only on the outside, but the clear version is a better bet.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    You can see that the coils went through the entire color range then back to silvery grey at the middle, a sign that the temperature was way too high. They also cover only part of the second hole on each side, meaning some air could just flow around.

    This time I got vapor but the coils had to be bright red and the battery hit was the same: too much for my liking. The session was not very satisfying but at least I got no hot spot. I don't think those notch coils are good for what we want. I gave a pair to a friend and after my results he decided to slice them open and flatten them to increase the exposed surface. I don't know how it worked yet.

    (continued below due to size limitation)
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
    Pipes likes this.
  19. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    KZ's experiments #003 - 20AWG AISI 304 SS "Clover Leaf" coils in Cali RDA

    I went back to the Cali RDA and this time tried to build some coils with loops covering the entire width of the air intakes. I used some 20AWG 304 SS wire from "the Crazy Wire" shop in the UK (I ordered the smallest bobin and they sent me 50 meters, I have enough to build coils till the end of time heh!)

    This wire was very easy to work using pliers and my hands, very little spring, stays in place well. I did something that looks a bit like clover leaf FPV antennas... Or well, let's say it's what I tried to do as it was a bit crappy and nothing super fancy and the pictures don't do them any justice...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    You can see some color change but I had a few shorts while testing, this explains the non-uniformity. Afterwards and during use, the coils never became red, this is a good point.

    For some reason I can't really explain now, the resistance didn't change enough during use and the box kept kicking out of TC mode and back to power mode. So I had to use it in power mode and went for a conservative 20W output. This time I got a very good session. It took a couple blank draws to get it started, but when everything became hot and going I got good vapor.

    I still had not really a hot spot but let's say a darker band, because my coils were not symmetrical and when seen from above I could clearly match the coil geometry to the dark band geometry on the bowl material. Nonetheless the taste was not spoiled like it is in the "Project" when it creates that very focused and concentrated hot spot. In fact taste was good until the session was almost over (stirred once afterwards)

    The session was pleasant but the RDA became really hot at the end, same for the stem base. The heat also transferred to the box mod body. It was not burning hot but not far, I could only touch the RDA for a couple seconds before having to remove my fingers. The fact that the inside is shiney should be a plus for heat reflectivity (mirror effect) but this steel mass is as expected stealing a lof of calories. It does give some back and creates some inertia like in the Mi/Zi, as I was able to keep drawing for a few seconds after letting the trigger go and still got vapor.

    The walls and base of this RDA are relatively thin, so there's not a lof of mass. But the top part where the mouthpiece is with the fins is quite heavy. It's also tapered inside and that limits the space that you have to build in. You have to be careful with the top part of the coils otherwise they can touch the walls of this upper part.

    Overall this experiment was rather a success but still far from the Holy Grail.


    KZ's experiments #004 - MKWS Alien SS316L "Mountain Trail" coils in Fishbone RDA

    This time I used SS316L "Alien Wire" (0.3*0.8 flat + 32GA, SKU 4625600) from MKWS, which is pricey but so good looking and sexy. I did two parallel coils looking like a trail climbing around a mountain top... or a pair of lungs if you have a lot of imagination!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    The uneven discolorations are mainly due to partial shorts as I was adjusting the coils while dry firing them. The wire is nice to work with but more springy than the previous one, so the tracks had a tendency to touch each others and it was hard to confine them such that they don't touch the outter glass body.

    I ended with a 0.28 ohm build that works well in TC mode. I used it several times and it's still what's inside my Fishbone right now. It works well, no hot spots but it has some inertia. It takes some time with blank hits (one or two at least) before getting any vapor, but once it's going it's good. But it takes time to reach temp (at least with the TCR settings I tried) Once to temp (ie. protection mode) it doesn't draw much (about 7-10A). I limited the Watts to 40 like for the Project for the initial ramp-up.

    I got quite some giant cloudage with this setup and I still have to tweak the parameters (temp and TCR) to improve it, but I'm really satisfyed. Airflow is good, the RDA is compact and discreet/stealthy. Only drawback is that the glass will get really hot at the end of a session. But if I do a smaller load and take a few spaced out super rips, it's perfect. There's quite some inertia and I can continue drawing with trigger released like in the Mi/Zi.

    In retrospect, I think we can't avoid the heat buildup (unless we use a very good insulator like wood) All my portable vapes become pretty hot during a session, especially conduction ones. Heck, even my Firewood becomes super hot near the bowl, Zion and Milaana too. On the FlowerMates the heat is less intense because the entire shell acts as a radiator (it's aluminium) But in our case we only have a very small surface area to radiate it out, so it's concentrated.

    Even if it's bad practice, I found that by not screwing the RDA fully I could limit a bit the amount of heat transferred to the box mod. But it's at the risk of bending or damaging the 510 port. I also found that my coils still create too wide of a tunnel as I can directly see the air intakes when looking from above, so next time I will experiment with a better geometry (this one was the easiest to build that I could think of)

    (continued below)
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  20. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    On Air
    KZ's experiments #005 - 20AWG AISI 304 SS "Roller Coaster" coils in Cali RDA

    I went back to the Cali and tried to improve the surface area by building larger coils. I also thought that the previous resistance was too low to register any change, and thus prevented TC mode operation. So I went bigger and as I was completely stoned, it ended in a mess looking like a roller coaster...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    This time the right coil didn't change color much. The other was dry fired alone and I had a partial short that created that darker part as seen on the second picture. But during use there's zero color change, not even the faintest glow, nothing. It just gets hots.

    I only tested this setup once tonight and it worked well. Can't say if it's any better than the previous Cali build though. I had to limit my draw speed a lot and create the restriction myself. Anytime I drew too hard the RDA made a slight whistle sound. By the way I'm hitting everything dry as you might have noticed, and I'm pretty sure this one "as is" wouldn't work well with water and high air flows.

    To my surprise, even with the higher resistance (0.14 ohm) the mod wouldn't stay in TC mode and felt back to power mode (maybe it's a known problem with AISI 304SS?) I tested at 20W and it was good but a bit slow. 30W was trickier to control, a bit like the Milaana. 25W proved to be a good compromise. I didn't combust nor had any hot spot. Good session apart from having to restrict the draw, and again ended with everything very hot to the touch (you wouldn't want to store that in your pocket right after use so it's problematic)

    --

    I have plenty of other toys and wires to test (even a surprise! but hush!) so... to be continued!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  21. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,828
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    Wow, someone's really getting into and enjoying the DIY setups. The testing can lead to a very gratifying high for sure. Those rollercoaster type coils worked well for me too. But try making two the same...lol. I was using them in the Bulli before the TC devices came out. Ran with modified 18650 flashlight body with a (IIRC) 1 - 1.2 ohm Kanthal coil for around 12 watts continuously on. Not an on demand method but only 30 second or so warm up. Would get 2 ea 15-20 minute sessions or bowls per battery. Would definitely be quite warm by the time it was done. But not as much as you'd think.
    I also received a package from FT with some notch coils. I am trying to use for ecig purpose but the Evic won't stay in TC mode. Changes to power after a few puffs. Very frustrating. Mine are reading .36 ohm with hardly any lead showing. Suppose to be .25 ohm And when is working it runs hot. I had one that a lead came off really easy too. I'm actually suspecting mine have bad welds for the leads. But who knows... Maybe as easy as trying another one out. Have to admit, can't complain about how they taste for ejuice.

    @KeroZen ....go man...
    "I have plenty of other toys and wires to test (even a surprise! but hush!) so... " :popcorn:
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2016
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  22. enjiatt

    enjiatt Active Member

    Messages:
    81
    hey @KeroZen i learned with the lower gauge wire you need to raise your wattage or the chip will think its taking too long to get to temp and kick you out. (im not sure if thats actually why, but I know with all of my low gauge builds I have to raise the wattage)
     
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  23. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

    Messages:
    1,660
    Location:
    On Air
    That might be the case indeed, thanks! On the other hand it's relatively easy to handle in power mode too... feels like the Milaana with its manual cruise control... or the Firewood 2.

    I will test your suggestion later on.
     
  24. Gator

    Gator Member

    Messages:
    14
    @KeroZen That inspired me to buy wire and experiment again!

    Here is my current setup

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Twisted 22awg

    Ud Igo W6 Rda

    http://coolvape.ca/collections/rebuild-able-clones/products/ud-igo-w6-original

    A piece of 1 1/8 dowel

    Cloutank M3 replacement glass

    https://m.fasttech.com/products/0/10010282/3383700-authentic-cloupor-cloutank-m3-replacement-glass

    I use 2 sceens to help even out the heat.

    Im about to recieve an order from fasttech with a velocity mini clone, I think it would work for my setup. I am hoping becuase the igo w6 isnt available on fasttech.

    Another thing, the Smok H-Priv is a great mod! It reads your atomizer very accurately and has the ability to adjust your ohm reading, if its not correct. It never kicks you out of tc mode either! I find in tc mode it doesnt pulsate to hard, it has a very smooth signal.

    Compared to my cuboid it is bigger, but the screen on the top is a plus to me. Its nice to see the numbers move when taking a hit.

    Check out the charts a graphs on djlsb review.
    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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  25. E0x

    E0x Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    134
    what are your settings of tcr and temp, ohms reading ?

    thanks
     

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