DIY Bulli Vaporizer

[Pipes]

Howdy @tepictoton, welcome aboard!
The EVIC Mini is the unit I'm using after comparing to 3 others.
Higher temp might be nice but the tricking has been working fine.
By tricking I mean as you said, use titanium in nickel mode.
For example, but note numbers are for my set up and are meaningless except for scale, I start my bowl at #500 and by the time I'm done I have worked up to #540. Now granted I'm cheap and get the max out of my herb now. ABV is pretty black by the time I'm done. Not by combusting but by milking it that far. Taste is still good even when ABV is very dark. Just works that well.
Once you get stuff on order, drop me a PM and we'll get the coil out of the way for ya.
Keep the good times rolling.

 

[tepictoton]

Hey pipes,

Thx for reaching out. Currently own an eleaf 60w tc, might do the trick too?

And reread a bit, do I need to get this ego to 510adaptor or is there no need for evic and/or eleaf?

 

[Pipes]

Thinking you are asking about the mouthpiece end.
Yes, you need to adapt a mouthpiece.
Options,
1: Adapter to be able to use standard 510 tip.
or/and
2: DIY with dowling and O rings. (Can help out here as well)

Never tried the E-leaf but imagine it will work. Anything 40 watts or over should be fine.
I believe the Eleaf has battery built in, so no fast change if dies.

Fun, fun,fun.

 

[tepictoton]

So, if I am getting this right, this is basically a rebuildable atomizer with the juice tank being used as an oven, where the air bring pulled in is being heated by the coil. The coil is separated from the load by a simple screen.

So I will look a bit more into this, see if other possible atomizers might leand itself to this little trick.

How about using a ceramic screen in stead of stainless steel? more or less like TV was using?

Am I correct in assuming the stainless chamber is also helping by radiating the heat, and slowly keeping the load at a higher temp then when one would use a glass tank? There was a member implementing this in a glass tank but I do not remember his name not the thread anymore.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

So, if I am getting this right, this is basically a rebuildable atomizer with the juice tank being used as an oven, where the air bring pulled in is being heated by the coil. The coil is separated from the load by a simple screen.

So I will look a bit more into this, see if other possible atomizers might leand itself to this little trick.

How about using a ceramic screen in stead of stainless steel? more or less like TV was using?

Am I correct in assuming the stainless chamber is also helping by radiating the heat, and slowly keeping the load at a higher temp then when one would use a glass tank? There was a member implementing this in a glass tank but I do not remember his name not the thread anymore.

Yeah but it's the shape of the atomizer that makes it all work. I've looked a fair bit into this and there's like one other rebuildable atomizer that was made to vape herb but uses a VapeXhale ELB for the bowl.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/diy-510-compatible-rebuildable-dry-herb-atomizer.17187/

The idea is the same it's just if you want to maximize function it has to be in a specific shape to use the heat as efficiently as possible. It's about right now that I'm also regretting selling my ThermoVape Evolution, it was the 3.7v one and would probably be much better on a regulated box mod than it was on a mechanical mod... Although I think @Pipes' setup is better as it's temp control and has a bigger heating element than the Evolution does.

 

[Pipes]

Qman has being doing his homework.

How about using a ceramic screen in stead of stainless steel? more or less like TV was using?

IMO, best path for vapor is from heat source through load with as little heat loss as possible along the way. Meaning, minimising air restriction and heat sink effect. So I find using a fine stainless steel screen the best. A few pages back just after going TC, I was using a really nice stainless steel thick holed screen. Ideal from a maintenance point of view. But switching screens gained me around 40 F chamber temperature difference. Significant as the tighter the numbers the more accurate and efficient the heat transfer.

Surprisingly the outside of atomizer doesn't get as hot as one would think. Remember the heat is only on while you're drawing so the walls do not have that much time to heat soak. Also, having the screen hole as close to possible to the overall diameter of the chamber seems to help here as well as helping with hot spots in the herb. Not a lot of units out there that actually fit the bill as well as the Bull.

I did find a unit called The Pluto. Very interesting and just shows that once they get on target, things might get interesting fast. Don't like the design myself. Think the stir mech would fail somehow and a side window for loading.... No thanks. And where the hell is the screen. They expect you to just sit your goods on the element...? Odd set up but sure shows what can be done.

Back to the Bull.....lol

 

[Bongologist]

Got my Vtc-mini...damn this thing is tiny. You were right @Pipes love it. I got the included tank (I don't vape ecig juice too much) and that is dramatically different from the kanger geni tank. Fun!

I'll have some numbers to run by you later today for some sizing questions. Also, I saw this but no TC, which seems odd. Thought you might be interested: https://www.migcigs.com/Vape-pen-Sub-Herb-p/subherb.htm

 

[xenodius]

I agree with Pipes, the less heat loss you have between the coil and load the more predictable it is. This is simplicity at its finest.

However, I found out last night that you can add a second heater cover over the first, technically you could add many-- since I had an undrilled spare I mounted it up. After I wound a slightly taller coil, I found that this seems to help it vape a bit more evenly without shaking/stirring, such that even a packed bowl vapes quite evenly while upright. Normally I had to turn my temps down slightly when upright, this way I can vape in any orientation without adjustment. Initial vapor production really isn't affected either. I'll see if it lasts... not sure if there's much room for improvement, but I'd love to try building a giant-ass element within 3 or 4 heater covers... might just end up resulting in more losses, cant imagine better performance anyway since it's basically a log already... but part of me must try.

Also, I got the screw-on CNC'ed drip tip adapter for the Original barrel, and it's NICE! Too bad the original barrel doesn't vape large loads as well as the TM barrel. It fits my long stainless drip tip perfectly for a rock-solid-stainless herb unit.

PS: I tried my kief for the first time *ever* in this thing the other night and the vapor was so thick, I thought I combusted. Opened it up and it was GREEN, but my kief had simply disappeared. Damn.

 

[tepictoton]

Not to derail, just throwing it out there...

Would using ceramic discs a atomizers add anything? They sure seem to add a lot of heating surface compared to wire coils? Especially with temp control that might be an interesting route to investigate.

Unfortunately I do not have such disc atomizer to test it, but looking at the pics of those atomizers they might actually lend themselves to installing a screen and as such separating load from heating element? Furthermore the ceramic might be better (or worse) at preventing combustion?

 

[xenodius]

Would using ceramic discs a atomizers add anything? They sure seem to add a lot of heating surface compared to wire coils? Especially with temp control that might be an interesting route to investigate.

The problem would be getting a ceramic element that could actually do TC. You need a pure metal element for temp-control, so it acts like an RTD. That limits you to stainless, titanium, and nickel. But most TC mods with nickel/stainless get hot enough, so titanium is what we've been using.

That said, if you wanted to make a "mini log" you could stack a bunch of covers on each other to make a long roomy air path, wire up a long coil that fills that space, maybe there's a way to coat it in ceramics, then you'd fire your mod at your preferred temp until it's heated up and draw. But, my guess is it won't really be more effective and it would use more energy.

But if you want to know the answer, then you'll have to try it yourself! ;-)

PS: Another idea would be to DIY your own Arduino-based 510 driver and use a standard RTD with a ceramic 'log'. But that'd be a LOT of DIY.

 

[someone_witty]

The problem would be getting a ceramic element that could actually do TC. You need a pure metal element for temp-control, so it acts like an RTD. That limits you to stainless, titanium, and nickel. But most TC mods with nickel/stainless get hot enough, so titanium is what we've been using.

That said, if you wanted to make a "mini log" you could stack a bunch of covers on each other to make a long roomy air path, wire up a long coil that fills that space, maybe there's a way to coat it in ceramics, then you'd fire your mod at your preferred temp until it's heated up and draw. But, my guess is it won't really be more effective and it would use more energy.

But if you want to know the answer, then you'll have to try it yourself! ;-)

PS: Another idea would be to DIY your own Arduino-based 510 driver and use a standard RTD with a ceramic 'log'. But that'd be a LOT of DIY.

http://ineedhemp.com/product/ceramic-donut-coils/

There are these..? Possible, but maybe a bit hard to work with.

Also just wanted to thank everyone in this thread! I've been lurking and following for a while and am excited to see what happens! Especially whatever comes of that sneak preview you had @Pipes

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

http://ineedhemp.com/product/ceramic-donut-coils/

There are these..? Possible, but maybe a bit hard to work with.

Also just wanted to thank everyone in this thread! I've been lurking and following for a while and am excited to see what happens! Especially whatever comes of that sneak preview you had @Pipes

That's kanthal, not nickel or titanium, so no temp control.

 

[funkyjunky]

That's kanthal, not nickel or titanium, so no temp control.

thats the first reason to not implement donuts.
a second would be the small surface area. thats not suitable for a convection device more for conduction.
im sure a nice conduction unit could be made out of one or two of the donuts, provided they work with temp control.
for convection a coil or at least a tube where there is a lot of surface to transfer the heat is a must to be effective.

 

[tepictoton]

They do work with temp control, newest mods also do kanthal wire in tc mode...

Also, seems to me the surface of these discs is way bigger then the surface of the coils we are building?

Will be keeping my eyes open for possible builds, but seems this is going fast now. Matt from divine tribe attys announced a dry herb tank too...

So can we go 'faster then a grasshopper'? That is the question of the day hihi

 

[funkyjunky]

i see, a quick google although revealed that its not the same principle as for nickel or titanium. its not quite there yet at least but certainly promising!

surface area is most certainly higher (didnt do the math). its not only surface area, more like contact area for heat exchange or residence time of the passing airstream over the heating element.
just as an example,lung surface also doesnt seem to be big but its huge because of gaps and folds.

 

[tepictoton]

So in an ideal world...

We would have an atomizer that works like a log vape, in a way turning the design inside out...

What I mean to say is this: how about wrapping a coil around the outside of a small glass tube. Then inserting this glass tube in another bigger glass tube (larger diameter) that would become the outside shell. The inner tube would be our loading area also.

One would sick in air, that would be pulled in from on top of the mouthpiece, entering the gap between small and bigger glass tube, as such being heated. At the same time the load will be gradually cooked by the radiant heat that will also hit the inner tube from the heating wire around it, giving us the best of both worlds(convection /conduction)?

This would also keep the air /vapor path clean of unwanted things, only the heating element would be in the air path.

Just thinking out loud... But I have a solid idea, now finding a way to implement it... I do prefer glass because one can get immediate visual feedback too.

Edit: I have been thinking of just removing the cotton from a ti coil (eleaf) and seeing if that would work while loading a bit of herb directly into the air tube, you know, the tube you should never get liquid into? Seems it would keep it away from touching the coil and might heat the air sufficiently to vape whatever is close enough to it?

 

[Pipes]

Thread showing activity... love it!
I have played with adding extra heating surface with ceramic. The problem is the extra mass takes more "time" to reach temperature. The key to why this scheme seems to be working is the fact that there is over 40 watts to work with to maintain the element temperature. Which is almost instant drawing whatever power needed to maintain as air gets drawn past it. If you slow the process by adding mass, only low volume air draw would likely work.
Kanthal TC is very hard to do because the coefficient is not that large. Meaning the resistance change as temperature changes is not as great. This will make the accuracy unstable. Nickle is best followed by Titanium. We need to use Ti in Ni mode to get the temperature scale we want.
Now adding more element as mass will work fine but I found the more you add, the more power it takes to keep it at temperature while drawing hard and is harder on your battery. It's a balancing act in which I have tried many different elements. Too much and the unit can't keep up with passing air cooling or too little and there is not enough to bring the overall air temp high enough on exiting the chamber.
22 AWG Ti around .3 ohms... Mod in Ni mode around 500F

 

[xenodius]

The so-called Kanthal TC requires you to hit a "preference" button when you reach your desired vapor thickness. Based on reports, it's a marketing ploy. Kanthal alloy is specifically engineered NOT to change resistance with temperature, so you can't employ the incredibly accurate TC algorithms that we can use with Nickel/Titanium/Stainless. BTW the latest Evic VTC mini is 75 watts, and has a stainless steel mode! Wonder how well a bunch of SS mesh would work in the Bulli? I have a capacitive discharge spot welder, so I could actually test this if I had an SS mod. Not sure the temp range would work out so well though.

Also, tepictoton, that's the same principle that Pipes 'bulli winterwear' accomplishes. If you're session vaping without one, conduction may be a relevant factor.

 

[Pipes]

Give the ss a shot. Curious on how it works out.
Here is a graph of how temperature effects the resistance of the 3 (usable) metals.
Notice how little change there is with stainless. IMO, just not enough to have an accurate device. This graph also shows how come using Ti in Ni mode makes for a hotter calculation. Note that this graph is simplified and in real life it's not so linear. But give a good idea on how the TC calculating works. All 3 start at .12 ohms @ room temperature and increase with temperature.

A footnote. I had noticed I had been slowly having to increase the temperature over the few weeks that I have been using the same setup. Could not explain why so I did another resistance measurement and locked it in. It seems to have changed from .28 ohms to .3 ohms. This corrected the numbers I was more use to. Have no concrete explanation to why the change but will keep an eye on it. The .02 ohms actually changed the temp numbers by about 30 degrees. Shows how important it is to get a good initial resistance read/lock.
All part of the game.

 

[legalcloud]

Hey guys, USPS hasn't seen my package with the bulli since the 8th...thankfully I have another on the way in case it really takes forever. Hoping someone has some ready to go wood stem adapters for purchase by the time I get my rda!...thought I would have been trying to make one myself by now. Still checking this thread frequently!

 

[Bongologist]

I will have wood stem adapters but probably not until right after Xmas.

 

[shocker92]

I just ordered all of my parts. Excellent work to everyone who helped develop this. I can't wait to experience this myself.

 

[Bongologist]

Got my Bulli from @xenodius still dialing it in, but pulling clouds thru my d020-d. To the shop tonight to build...things.

 

[enjiatt]

This is great!!! Im glad I caught this while it was only 12 pages so i could actually read the entire thing. I have an x-max v2 and an arizer air and i was just about to pull the trigger on a firewood and saw pipes picture with the solo stem in the bulli. I though "convection with the solo stem hmmmm".

If this works well this could finally be what im looking for and I can get rid of these other vapes and focus on glass.

I'm about to buy the evic mini. Does anybody know if @xenodius is still doing the 90 dollar bulli kit with the titainium wire?

Last question, if i wanted to vape ecig juice it would be as simple and unscrewing the bulli and adding a different attatchment and then changing the temperature correct??

 

[Bongologist]

I have the bulli and evic mini combo and after some fiddling on my part it's now working great, and you can indeed just switch tanks and temps. Works very well. I'm working with xenodius on swapping a part but I'm not sure if he has any complete units left. I will say, that he is a breeze to work with and this thing really works and tastes great. I'm comparing it side by side with my e-nano and it's very close, much closer then I thought it would be. It's super efficient, maximizing loads, and turning out very consistent avb. I am surprised at the size of the clouds thru my FC-UFO. Not quite as dense as the log, but not by much either. I have an air and solo and this is better and more portable then both of those. Battery life has been very good and using a silicone sleeve gets it attached to water very simply without overheating. I am running a little hotter (and I'm probably getting a new coil) at 520 F up to 540 maybe 550 F. I am having the best success at 65 watts, which does make me think a 150w mod might help, but it's certainly not necessary and you give up the small size. Overall I give this a 42 on my scale of meaningless numbers. (Which really means 9/10, this thing rocks!!)