Divine Tribe atty's
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Having a hard time resisting a primo mini, that fire button looks comfy and the big screen looks easy to read without being all cluttered, like the Smok Alien.
Bad Ocelot
Well-Known Member
put arctic fox on one of my mods last night. Pretty cool software package! Gonna do some dry runs tonight. What PI settings are you guys using for the large donuts?
bizwaxzion
Enigmatic Cannabist
0% (PI always active) P=900 I=20
Note that using 0% will override any preheat settings, if you want preheat settings observed then use a higher percent value so the PI regulator kicks in later. The value is percent of desired temperature (or resistance rise).
You might also find this link of interest: https://nfeteam.org/forum/threads/pi-regulation-notes-from-the-queue.220/
OF
Well-Known Member
I'm with you on that. I use V2.5s much more than V3. Unfortunately no WT adapters like for V3 (yet?), the best 'luck' I've had is with Silicone tube either over the 2.5 MP and into a female GonG or over the 2.7 MP and then over a male GonG.
However, you can use the one Matt sells for the V2.5 which is kind of awkward in that it ends at an odd angle. I was able to use it that way for a while being careful, but then I bought a spare (in case) and took a torch to mine to soften up the glass and bend it out enough so the typical sixty degree M/F adapter makes the total 180 (plumb down). So the adapter comes out at 120 degrees not the 'close but not close enough to 180' it was before.
http://ineedhemp.com/product/bubbler-attachment-with-the-version-2-5-ceramic-donut-atomizer-copy/
Team Member. We're all Team Members now, unless we really work at Disneyland......in which case we're 'Cast Members'.......
I'm not 100% sure Steven and Matt aren't the same guy, really. I mean anyone ever see both of them in the same room at the same time?
OF
Steven
Well-Known Member
Haha wow, thanx. In this case it really is both what was said and who said it. @OF hits us all again with his way with words. But in reality, I think many of us here all share Matt's vision on what is needed in a vape device. The way Matt approached the industry and conducts his business easily created a loyal customer in me and I'm sure in many others as well. Hard to not want to spread the word. I know my world would take a big hit if Matt, for some reason, went out of business.
If anyone of you wants to visit Humboldt Califorina and see some of the tallest trees in the world that are right next to the ocean, please hit me up. We will do dabs with the best concentrates and I will be happy to show you around. Have a great week !!!
stinkbud
Well-Known Member
I just ordered a DT Gen 2 atomizer and I can't wait to use it. Checking this thread out I learned about Arctic Fox. I am intrigued enough and i have installed it on my Pico.
It seems most of the talk here is about 3.0 concentrate atomizers. I saw a couple pages back, someone posted arcticfox settings for a 3.0, does anyone have settings for a 2.0?
Also, I know it is rebuildable, I can't find any tutorials on rebuilding the atomizer.
It seems most of the talk here is about 3.0 concentrate atomizers. I saw a couple pages back, someone posted arcticfox settings for a 3.0, does anyone have settings for a 2.0?
Also, I know it is rebuildable, I can't find any tutorials on rebuilding the atomizer.
OF
Well-Known Member
M value of 245, 24 Watts limit. It takes maybe 15 seconds to solid vapor (you didn't ask that, but you'll eventually get to it.....).
No videos I know of, but it's not a big deal. Remove the 3 screws and cover, loosen the two screws holding the heater and remover and replace it. Tighten/replace the screws and take credit for it.
FWIW I wouldn't worry about it, if you don't fuss with them the heaters seem to last as long as non rebuildable but similar vapes like the FMs. I've broken a couple messing around, I suggest you leave it be if it's working.
OF
Morty
Well-Known Member
Tried the Gen 2 DC for the 1st time last night. Very nice! Surprised by the taste. I would definitely echo @oddjobold 's sentiments. If you already have a box mod, this is a freaking no brainer. Can't wait to try the V3 later this week. Should be an awesome one-two punch to the face.
I need help. Many of my customers with alien mods are having trouble with Settings. I need a expert who can tell me what the perfect settings are for the V3 and for the GEN 2 DC. The problem with these mods is I hear that they try to adjust to the ohms changing instead of locking down to one resistance number.
if anyone has some insight let me know
thanks
matt
if anyone has some insight let me know
thanks
matt
OF
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that the metal used for the heaters is the same as used in V2.5, therefore the same m value works 'just fine by me' (gives expected vapor at 390F setting). That is 245 (.245% per degree C of rise) for the Gen 2 and SMALL V3 (same as for V 2.5s). The larger one seems to get hotter (makes sense to me it's a wider heater.....) so it runs hot at that same setting so I reduce it to an m value of 170 instead (to preserve the same sort of performance with 390F 'dialed up'. Power settings are 12.5W for the small doughnut and the V2.5, 18 Watts for the big doughnut. Gen 2 uses 24 Watts and gets to full temperature about 15 seconds in. More power would get there faster, but it's plenty fast for me and I don't want to hammer the mod or Gen 2 more than needed.
That should get guys going. They can then 'tweak' the temperature setting a bit to get the results they want with the material they have to work with. Or, after due consideration, tweak the m value up to make it hotter, down to lower, until the Temperature display matches expectations......which is how I ended up lowering the m value for the big guys to 170.....
V 2.5: m=245, 12.5 W, 390F
V 3 (small): m=245, 12.5W, 390F
V 3 (large): m=170, 18W, 390F
Gen 2: m-245, 24W, 390F
Best wishes,
OF
Bad Ocelot
Well-Known Member
Thanks! So presumably you could reach target temp more quickly by inputting a value like say 25%? Just now getting around to testing it out with some dry donuts, gonna have some high end concentrates later in the week, pretty stoked to use the new firmware.
bizwaxzion
Enigmatic Cannabist
Not without defining a preheat curve or percentage. The mod will just output max watts which is what the PI regulation does anyway when cold. The only reason to use a value > 0 is if you want more than max power for some time. Personally I don't find a need for additional preheat settings with the DTv3 donuts and I leave PI kick in at 0%. I do, however, set max power set to 24w on 10mm and 35w on 13mm donuts which does act as 'variable duration preheat' because it only takes 12-14w to maintain temp of 10mm donuts and 15-18w to maintain temp of a 13mm donut. You will see 2-4 seconds at max wattage before regulation starts cutting it back.
With the DCv2 I've been experimenting preheat settings. I use a 33w power max, 45w 2 second preheat and PI kickin at 50%. This has the effect of 2 seconds at 45w - 5-7 seconds at 33w then the wattage starts backing down. I'm not sure it's all the effective really because the DCv2 takes a lot longer to get to temperature, so 2 seconds is pretty much background noise. For both of them I've dropped I to 10. The reason being that with I=20, the mod will overshoot temperature by a few degrees, enough to display "temp protect", but with I=10, the mod stays a couple degrees below temperature limit and displays the actual numbers instead of "temp protect" most of the time.
Be careful, it's easy to get carried away with the device monitor and testing different settings can put you in the stratosphere - especially with quality material.
OF
Well-Known Member
FWIW my 'take' on PI modifications for our use is it's a bad idea. It makes sense for the e-cig guys with huge heaters and lots of 'juice' in intimate contact with them. Heat can be instantly transferred to the load so you can 'trick' the unit into 'coming on very strong' at the start of a hit.
We don't enjoy that instant advantage, there's a time constant built into the V3 due to the glazing and substrate (which have to be heated before any concentrate can). Yes, you can overdrive the heater a bit, but that's not going to defeat the delay in getting the heat to the load. And, taken to extremes (as folks often do.....) it can, I think, invite expansion related problems with the expanding heater trapped inside a cool (and therefore contracted) glass shell.
By all means experiment if you're inclined but I don't see any real advantage against the risks. Then again failure only means a new heater for the V3 since Matt made it rebuildable? Good for the 'huge cloud' e-cig guys though?
OF
We don't enjoy that instant advantage, there's a time constant built into the V3 due to the glazing and substrate (which have to be heated before any concentrate can). Yes, you can overdrive the heater a bit, but that's not going to defeat the delay in getting the heat to the load. And, taken to extremes (as folks often do.....) it can, I think, invite expansion related problems with the expanding heater trapped inside a cool (and therefore contracted) glass shell.
By all means experiment if you're inclined but I don't see any real advantage against the risks. Then again failure only means a new heater for the V3 since Matt made it rebuildable? Good for the 'huge cloud' e-cig guys though?
OF
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
@OF: in the Project and BULLI/custom RDA's we do use PID and it's a must, but our scenario is different: we have coils in direct contact with the air and it's full-on convection, so there's no such lag to buffer the changes. Half a second of overshoot and you end up with a charred hot spot in the middle of the load and the taste is spoiled for the entire session, no matter how much you stir afterwards.
Plus the TC algo on the stock joyetech firmware is pretty crap, you can see the coil pulsing as the update rate is slow and the thing just cuts on and off brutally.
I agree that in your use case it's more risky because you can't judge the settings by looking at the coil glow. On the other hand if you use the device monitor (from AF package) and do your PI(D) configuration using a low enough temperature (for safety) you can follow on screen and in real-time the resistance, voltage and computed temperature.
If you manage to get stable parameters with no over/under shoot, then you can raise the temperature. If you see something wrong on screen, you can react fast enough and release the trigger before any damage occurs.
Or maybe a poor soul could take one for the team and publish the PI(D) values for the two firmware here (times donut versions) as they should be relatively consistent (provided all other settings are the same of course, namely TCR and max watts)
Plus the TC algo on the stock joyetech firmware is pretty crap, you can see the coil pulsing as the update rate is slow and the thing just cuts on and off brutally.
I agree that in your use case it's more risky because you can't judge the settings by looking at the coil glow. On the other hand if you use the device monitor (from AF package) and do your PI(D) configuration using a low enough temperature (for safety) you can follow on screen and in real-time the resistance, voltage and computed temperature.
If you manage to get stable parameters with no over/under shoot, then you can raise the temperature. If you see something wrong on screen, you can react fast enough and release the trigger before any damage occurs.
Or maybe a poor soul could take one for the team and publish the PI(D) values for the two firmware here (times donut versions) as they should be relatively consistent (provided all other settings are the same of course, namely TCR and max watts)
bizwaxzion
Enigmatic Cannabist
@OF - I respect your knowledge and expertise in this area and if I'm reading your post correctly there's a warning in there so I'm interested in additional context. Are you saying that I'm running the risk of blowing a donut coil (in wich case I'm out a couple $$) or are you suggesting there is potential for something much more damaging (to the mod or worse to my person)? I'm willing to accept the risk of a broken donut - but not the later.
OF
Well-Known Member
The mod should do just fine, it's the doughnut that takes a beating......IMO for nothing useful in return? We wait a few seconds for full vapor, is one second more or less a big change? You get more variation than that with load size, right? Having to heat a bunch of concentrate slows the action relative to when there is very little?
I suggest you have a spare in hand, human nature can lead you (or anyone else) to push it too far exploring? If you have a backup handy, that's probably insurance.....
OF
I ordered one 2 weeks ago and sent it back, I couldn't get any of my atomizers to work well in TC mode, I was constantly getting New/Old coil resistance change messages because of this. This mod is highly celebrated in the Ecig community but not for its TC mode. Gonna replace it with a Primo Mini.
This is one area where I have a differing opinion, I feel the sooner the heating surface gets to temperature, the better, in regards to efficient vaporization. I feel this largely impacts duration and intensity of effect. The most ideal (IMO) being a surface which is already at temperature before concentrate is applied, such as a quartz banger or e-nail. I find myself topping up quite a bit more often when using a concentrate pen versus low temp dabbing from a nail.
OF
Well-Known Member
I don't think that's a fair comparison. Two different techniques, in one MORE HEAT THAN NEEDED IS STORED BEFORE, the temperature comes down? Very different from heating up from room temperature.
Are you saying a minor change in heat up time really changes anything but the time scale? And again, you see a change in heat up time with load level, I think this is a bigger factor WRT time?
Guys should explore it if they want, and no doubt some already are/have. I wish them well, I just don't see a big advantage here. Nothing like TCR regulation, for instance.
OF
bizwaxzion
Enigmatic Cannabist
Noticed on the Joyetech site yesterday that there's a primo SE available now. Seems to have very similar specs to the primo mini, but will push 35A over the mini's 25A (not a care for this use case). It also has a slightly smaller screen (same size as vtwo mini I believe). Design seems to be very similar in all other aspects and unfortunately still no white model
bizwaxzion
Enigmatic Cannabist
OF
Well-Known Member
Thanks @OF - appreciate the response. I do maintain a stock of donuts (currently 4-5 of each size) and several DTv3s to rotate them throughI've only blown one in the last 9 months and that was cleaning it on the mod (I now torch them).
Sounds like you're prepared properly, as the French say 'Bon chance"?
OF
I think it's a very fair comparison considering the same end goal - efficient concentrate vaporization. Apples and oranges? - Maybe, but certainly not apples and broccoli. Also, regarding storing more heat than needed, while relevant in a torched nail scenario where one must allow cool down to reach preferred vaporization temperature, is not really applicable with e-nails (where heat is in fact being stored, but constantly regulated via PID controller) I referenced both because while different in their heating methods, both provide an increased duration and intensity than wax pens in my experience. I would absolutely say changes in heat up time do make a noticable difference, which is likely compounded once other variables are factored in (mainly thermal conductivity)