Did I over cook my weed&coconut oil?? :(

duckTape

Well-Known Member
I just "boiled" weed and coconut oil on lowest temp on my oven. I checked it every 10 minutes or so, and the last time (around 30 minutes) it was all black and when I took the lid of a good amount of vapor/smoke that smelled not burned, but not "not burned" either :rofl:left the pot..

Soo.. Do you think the goods went up in vapor/smoke? It wasn't boiling in the pot or anything, but the weed was quite dark ..
 
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strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
This same thing happened to me recently, also on the lowest setting. I found it to have a very tiring effect, as most of the thc gets converted to cbn at these higher temperatures. Even on the lowest setting it can easily reach 210+ celcuis in a pot.

Try using a double boiler and you will never look back!
 
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strictly vapor

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This past weekend was double boiler for 17 hours: 8 hours one day, refrigerate overnight, 9 hours the next day.

I'd like to be able to run some tests to find the exact amount of time needed to saturate, but this is by far the best technique I've used. You get out what you put in, so I used top kush nugs and the results are better than I've been able to find at any dispensery.

As far as ratio of coconut oil to dried flower, it's personal preference. When everything is finished, I lose about 20 grams of coconut oil per 100 grams used at the start. My preferred ratio is about 13/1 coconut oil to bud, which leaves me with almost precisely 0.1 bud in each gram of coconut oil.

Also with this ratio I'm not worried about leaving behind cannabinoids due to saturated oil. Again I hope to use testing to further refine my technique. A more standard ratio is 7/1, which many people find makes potent oil.

Another thing many people are adding is lecithin, which potentiates the effects of thc in the human body, meaning your oil becomes more bioavailable, which will get you higher quicker, off less. Sunflower lecithin is preferred over soy, but if using soy try to go with non GMO. I don't use lecithin currently as I absorb cannabinoids well, but some people swear by it.

It takes a lot of commitment to add water every 20 minutes for 8 hours, 2 days in a row, but the results are phenominal and once you try it you won't go back!
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
Dude, I can't wait to get into edibles after my break! I'll be PMing you bro! You sound like you have this shit dialed down!

Do you really notice a big difference doing the extra 9 hours after fridge?
 

strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
PM me for sure when your ready bro and I'll hit you with exact details. After years of obsessive research, coupled with ALOT of trial and error, the chocolates I made over the weekend are being hailed as the heaviest, most satisfying edibles around by some very heavy users.

There's a plan in motion to bring a brand to market when the time is right, and I think once further refined, this technique has serious potential.

Edit: Forgot to mention I refrigerated overnight because I needed to sleep anyway, but if I was going to do the full extraction in one go I'd refiegerate (or freeze) for an hour or 2, long enough to solidify everything and hopefully get some extra infusion.
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
Thanks bro! I have some history..... so I understand the chocolates lol. I mean my first chocolates with pure ABV (ALOT of it) but had no cheese cloth, so just used a sieve and the taste was fucking horrific! However, it was the highest most uncomfortable feeling i've experienced....I had to hold myself up the kitchen counter, and for the first time in my life told my girlfriend that there is NO WAY I can operate a vehicle! lol

Ended up in the fetal position for hours.....and this is coming from an extremely high tolerance guy with a 2g/day vaping habit and a pro with edibles!

I will never use ABV again, I find it a horrible incomplete level of medication....so like you i'd only use the best buds, and cheese cloth is already stocked in my kitchen for future use! lol

Most dispensary edibles do nothing for me, even the expensive potent ones.
 

strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
Ahahahahahahaha I used to only use abv, which would always be mixed strain batches. Trial and error has told me that the more strains in your batch, the more anxiety in the final product. I switched to single strain abv but cut that out as well, and can only see that being used if times were rough.

Like you I've been locked in the fetal position more times than I could possibly count, often swearing I would never use marijuana again if I could only live through the night. I think this comes down to mixed strain batches causing extra anxiety, improper (way too high) dosing and eating it all at once.

Like alcohol (which I no longer drink) I find that it's best to consume in increments, for example one beer or 10mg dose at a time (maybe 2 or 3 but usually not 10!!). The times when I have had the worst experiences, which have included enlisting friends as babysitters in case I died, thinking I'm gonna die, feeling like having a heart attack etc have always been when I took way too much, way too fast.

I've since found that if 2 grams of infused coconut oil gets me well medicated, it can be overwhelming to eat it all at once, but if I space it out in 0.5g incriments over a few hours I get a very nice effect without the overwhelming brush with death we have all come to hate.

I've started noticing some advanced chefs going to extra lengths to strain their oil lately, and will be looking into this. For now I've been using a French coffee press, which works really well. I strain the oil and dump it into a jar, and after refrigerating there is a small amount of sediment that settles to the bottom. I now scrape this off, but have cooked with it in the past. I think a coffee press strain followed by cheese cloth or perhaps 10 micron sieve would be a great way to go.

The last thing I strongly recommend is to use 1 strain. Single strain edibles are not nearly common enough right now but mark my words they are the future of the edible industry. The effects are so much more pronounced you will never go back!!
 

strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
@biohacker just re-reading this now, and noticed your question earlier was if I really see major improvements with the second 8 hours of simmering. I misread this and thought you were asking about refrigerating in-between, lol. Medicated.

The short answer is yes. I was testing my batch at different points in the process for reference and also testing the color by stirring and rubbing the spoon on paper towel to see how saturated (dark) the oil was. I felt the second 8 hours really added a lot of potency to the final product, but would like to use testing to identify the point of saturation and learn how long that really takes.
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
Thanks man, I completely agree with the strain thing. When I return to cannabis i'm planning on sticking with 1 or 2 strains at a time, because having a dozen or two really confuses my brain chemistry and body it seems. Everyone always says to switch up strains, to keep the body guessing, etc. but I think there is more to it than that. After a decade, my brain is starting to say fuck you lol

I agree with all your points too.... too high of a dose in an edible will cripple you, but that's the effect i'm always looking for! Lol It's like damn, edibles do nothing for me.....but when you have a properly made one, it's a different storey! I like your incremental approach to saturating receptors, instead of all at once, like drinking several shots in a row. Like you, I quit alcohol too (and caffeine).

Thanks for the heads up on the extra cooking time! That's pretty awesome....never thought of a french press but makes sense (the oil goes through the holes no problem?), and then a final cheese cloth and good to go!

Do you ever make capsules?
 

strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
Thanks man, I completely agree with the strain thing. When I return to cannabis i'm planning on sticking with 1 or 2 strains at a time, because having a dozen or two really confuses my brain chemistry and body it seems. Everyone always says to switch up strains, to keep the body guessing, etc. but I think there is more to it than that. After a decade, my brain is starting to say fuck you lol

I agree with all your points too.... too high of a dose in an edible will cripple you, but that's the effect i'm always looking for! Lol It's like damn, edibles do nothing for me.....but when you have a properly made one, it's a different storey! I like your incremental approach to saturating receptors, instead of all at once, like drinking several shots in a row. Like you, I quit alcohol too (and caffeine).

Thanks for the heads up on the extra cooking time! That's pretty awesome....never thought of a french press but makes sense (the oil goes through the holes no problem?), and then a final cheese cloth and good to go!

Do you ever make capsules?

For sure man incremental dosing is the shit, and you can CERTAINLY get crippled from it :razz:

No caffeine here either but the french press works great for pressing and straining. It's a nice fine mesh which I would estimate is between 50-100 microns. I've also heard a garlic press works really well to get every last bit of oil out, where the coffee press can't create enough pressure to get everything, Just most. I see a 10 micron stainless steel mesh garlic press mod in the future!

I know how much it sucks when the brain has enough!

The extra cook time really is worth it - who knows how long could be optimal?!

I was making capsules for a while but didn't benefit as much medically from them. I find they're my least favorite method of oral ingestion, but have had very intense experiences with certain techniques. When it comes to using coconut oil I'd much prefer to drink it in tea, eat it in chocolate or dissolve it under my tongue.
 

TheMadDabber

I ° The Magician
For sure man incremental dosing is the shit, and you can CERTAINLY get crippled from it :razz:

No caffeine here either but the french press works great for pressing and straining. It's a nice fine mesh which I would estimate is between 50-100 microns. I've also heard a garlic press works really well to get every last bit of oil out, where the coffee press can't create enough pressure to get everything, Just most. I see a 10 micron stainless steel mesh garlic press mod in the future!

I know how much it sucks when the brain has enough!

The extra cook time really is worth it - who knows how long could be optimal?!

I was making capsules for a while but didn't benefit as much medically from them. I find they're my least favorite method of oral ingestion, but have had very intense experiences with certain techniques. When it comes to using coconut oil I'd much prefer to drink it in tea, eat it in chocolate or dissolve it under my tongue.

Its interesting you mentioned capsules. I have tried gelatin capsules from my own concoction and realized for some reason they werent as effective as if I took a teaspoon of the same potion directly. Is this the same case with you?

Could the capsules inhibit absortion in some way?
 

strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
Its interesting you mentioned capsules. I have tried gelatin capsules from my own concoction and realized for some reason they werent as effective as if I took a teaspoon of the same potion directly. Is this the same case with you?

Could the capsules inhibit absortion in some way?


For me I find that while capsules last the longest, by far, they also have the weakest peak effects.

With medicated coconut oil in a tea, chocolate or under the tongue I find there are some effects right away, and a gradual increase over the next 2 hours leading to a nice peak, which lasts about 2 hours. This is what I enjoy most.

Candies and chocolates made with shatter are nice for a more heady experience, but without the synergistic effects from the entire flower I really feel like something is missing, and with my particular injury I miss out on some of the medical benefits with this technique.

When it comes to capsules, repeated trials over a year long period have led me to believe the peak is at 6 hours, and tends to come in waves in a way that resembles the onset of mushrooms. I like an edible that gives a more steady effect, and comes on stronger, faster.

I think there's a place for capsules, as they are great in providing a patient or recreational enthusiast with a baseline dose, which can then be added to with vaping or other edilbes (candies, tinctures, chocolates). I've been known to enjoy a good capsule, but have cut them out of my routine in favor of dissolving the coconut oil under my tongue, or more recently eating it in chocolates.

I do know that capsules are absorbed much lower in the digestive tract than any other edible, and are therefore going to be absorbed more efficiently by the liver, but they will also take much longer.

To sum it up I like capsules on occasion, but haven't been able to incorporate them into my daily routine the way I can with other forms of coconut oil.

It's amazing how the SAME coconut oil can give such differing experiences depending on how it is ingested!!
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
Candies and chocolates made with shatter are nice for a more heady experience, but without the synergistic effects from the entire flower I really feel like something is missing, and with my particular injury I miss out on some of the medical benefits with this technique.

You can make edibles with shatter? Hmmmm.........

That's crazy that capsules have a different effect than without! Learn something new every day...
 

strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
You can make edibles with shatter? Hmmmm.........

That's crazy that capsules have a different effect than without! Learn something new every day...


Haha yup! A lot of the dispensary edibles I'm seeing are actually made using bho! Candies are almost certain to be made with extracts.

I really enjoy the effects from this type of edible, but more as a suppliment on top of my baseline of coconut oil, and not every day.

Theres 2 main things to consider when using shatter. First, you need to activate (decarboxylate) it. There's lots of info online but I find 240 for 40-60 minutes in a Pyrex measuring cup works well. Your shatter will bubble when heated, and with a flashlight you can watch for the bubbles to stop. It's when they stop that your shatter is fully decarbed. What a beautiful sight!!

The second thing to consider with bho is that the extra step of winterization being used to clean concentrates for smoking should also be used to clean your shatter before eating. In short it is adding high proof grain alcohol to your shatter and freezing it before boiling off the alcohol, which dissolves unwanted impurities like plant waxes and butane.

I've personally never winterized as I have no access to everclear alcohol, but have tried gummies made with regular bho from the dispensery and compared them to gummies from a dispensery in BC which were made with winterized shatter. I thought they were slightly cleaner, but most people likely wouldn't notice. The major difference here is what's building up in our systems over time.

If you have any questions at all feel free to send me a pm!
 

biohacker

Well-Known Member
Thanks bro, I still have to read your PM....I will be getting back to you!

For now since i'm abstaining I probably shouldn't concern myself much with edibles, but once I return, I will be experimenting forsure, mostly from a sleep standpoint, I think perhaps some coconut oil would allow a longer slumber than what vaping allows for?
 

strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
Thanks bro, I still have to read your PM....I will be getting back to you!

For now since i'm abstaining I probably shouldn't concern myself much with edibles, but once I return, I will be experimenting forsure, mostly from a sleep standpoint, I think perhaps some coconut oil would allow a longer slumber than what vaping allows for?

For sure. On top of the sleep benefits which come from the longer lasting effects of oral ingestion I find I often wake up with a slight "buzz", for lack of a better term.

This is awesome for me because it allows me to start my day without craving cannabis, while still enjoying the lack of a pounding headache that the right strain keeps at bay.

I think you're bang on with infused coconut oil being the best for sleep, as long as its infused with flower. Obviously strain selection plays a huge role but in general I would recommend flower over concentrates for sleep.

Definitely best to avoid thinking too hard about edibles these days! But when/if the time is right I've been doing aggressive trial and error for years with a strong determination to become an expert on the many, many methods of oral ingestion and am happy to share. That is, if you manage to get through the novel sitting in your inbox :lol:
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
I've made quite a bit of chocolates with coconut oil or raw organic cocoa butter. My method is to use a crockpot and I've made a DIY controller of a type where you place the probe in the cocoa butter or coconut oil and a RaspberryPi monitors and controls it (turns it on and off) to try to keep it at a consistent temperature +/- 10deg or so. It can be controlled from a small web page which also graphs it real time and stores the temperature log (the RaspberryPi connects to my WiFi)

Only problem with chocolates, is setting them properly, and even if you get them set properly, they still melt at <100deg so they aren't very convenient in the summer :)

I'd really like to make hard candies for this purpose. I don't really trust dispensary edibles and they just don't work for me the ones I've tried. To make hard candies myself I'd have to buy or make shatter or some sort of high quality extract. I don't trust the purity of everything I would get mail order and the cost would be pretty extreme. I'd like to get the ExtractCraft product to easily do extracts at home for this purpose ... but it's not cheap! I know there are other ways to safely do extracts but it is time consuming and involved.
 

strictly vapor

Well-Known Member
I've made quite a bit of chocolates with coconut oil or raw organic cocoa butter. My method is to use a crockpot and I've made a DIY controller of a type where you place the probe in the cocoa butter or coconut oil and a RaspberryPi monitors and controls it (turns it on and off) to try to keep it at a consistent temperature +/- 10deg or so. It can be controlled from a small web page which also graphs it real time and stores the temperature log (the RaspberryPi connects to my WiFi)

Only problem with chocolates, is setting them properly, and even if you get them set properly, they still melt at <100deg so they aren't very convenient in the summer :)

I'd really like to make hard candies for this purpose. I don't really trust dispensary edibles and they just don't work for me the ones I've tried. To make hard candies myself I'd have to buy or make shatter or some sort of high quality extract. I don't trust the purity of everything I would get mail order and the cost would be pretty extreme. I'd like to get the ExtractCraft product to easily do extracts at home for this purpose ... but it's not cheap! I know there are other ways to safely do extracts but it is time consuming and involved.

Wow. Your diy controller for the slow cooker sounds absolutely amazing! I fantasized about something like this last week when making my own labor intensive batch, but knew I didn't have the technical knowledge to make it happen.

I want the ExtractCraft very badly. I think when used with 95% grain alcohol this is the best possible extraction for edibles, but I don't know that yet.

I gave up making concentrates a few years ago, because until I get a proper setup it is very difficult to make even a semi-clean product, by my standards.

I haven't had chocolate in the summer yet but now that you say it, it really does sound messy. I picture how thrilled I'd be to find my medicated chocolates melted all over the place.

I haven't been convinced by dispensary edibles yet either, save for a tincture made by Budder King.

There's a dispensary in bc that a friend has been ordering from, who sells 8 10mg gummies for $12. Not the best price in the universe but a fair deal for me considering they use activated, winterized shatter and their products seem to be on the clean side for me. Pm me for the name if you want!

As much as I am a diy guy, I do feel right now my best option with candies is to buy the "cleanest" shatter I can find at the best price, as determined through trial and error by vaping it, and activate/infuse it myself into candy.

I wish I could tell you there's a better way, but it looks like were on the same page with the ExtractCraft.
Hopefully soon!!
 

rodders83

Well-Known Member
I burned mine a bit too but what is the worst that is going to happen? A bit of toilet action? Ok fine but at least you will be stoned sitting there :)

I put about an ounce and a half maybe two i had when i ran dry into the biggest pyrex dish i could find in the oven then got busy and realized it was too hot for too long but i was in a hurry and the coconut oil was taking ages to melt in the cold kitchen and weather! Then i just stiirred it and added some chocolate and put the whole lot in the fridge where it now remains.

Tomorrow i will take it out while in a firm form and roll it with grease proof paper into a long stick then cut each stick into a large horse sized edible pill and eat them myself (gtfo horse) but keep em all cold so they remain in capsule form. If you eat these quick i think you save $$$ on Geletin capsules and with the doses i want you might need 6 000 caps which is too much for me. And you never get bigger than 000 either which is another bonus of sticks if it works.

Next time i will do this same process but with a green crockpot and more material! I do not think this can be beat if you like pills unless you are a sword swallower and want to just try the sticks! :D
 
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duckTape

Well-Known Member
Just got back from holidays to a lot of interesting reading, thanks guys! :clap: I obviously have a lot to learn.

Here's an update on the semi-toasted coconut oil;
First of, it tasted like shit but that was not a big surprise. 1 hour went by, nothing happened. 2,3, 4 hours and still nothing. But then, after 5 hours things started getting funny.

It wasn't a complete high, but it was enjoyable. The only negative thing was that it kicked in when the flight I needed it for was over. In other words I took off at the same time as I landed :hmm::rofl:
 

herbivore21

Well-Known Member
In answer to the OP, yes, it sounds as if you have vaporized a lot of actives while cooking with too much heat.

Obviously strain selection plays a huge role
Actually, where cooking is concerned, variety (strains refer to viruses, not plants) selection plays a much lesser role than when we are dealing with uncooked material. Remember, most of the varieties that are common these days are type I chemovars with high THC and very little of other major/minor cannabinoids. What sets the effects of one high THC plant from another when there are negligible other cannabinoids present in most of these plants? Terps are what. Terps are why when you get a plant that has the same amount of THC as another, with negligible CBD/CBG/CBGA/CBDA/THCV/THCVA etc, it can still have very different effects when you vape/dab it.

Those terps also boil at incredibly low temps. In a cooking situation, the temp and timeframe that we use to decarb is going to destroy and degrade those terps. What remains will retain negligible terp content and so the differences between strains are muted, if not entirely removed. Edibles can be wonderful, but if you're adding high terpene containing material of any kind to something that you're going to heat significantly before consuming, you are wasting the best part of your starting material.

Edibles IMO should be made with waste byproducts from inhalable extractions, or from AVB. That way, you can make sure that you make the most of these most valuable actives (which would generally be spoiled by cooking) whilst not wasting what is left over.

As to recommending flowers over concentrates for sleep - I would never cook with flowers, unless the flowers were of such low quality that I didn't want to extract bubble/rosin etc from them (if that were the case, I would not have bought the flowers in the first place). Anything extra you'll get from those flowers over the concentrates I describe about is largely inactive vegetative plant material, not resin. Some may like to eat these due to personal preference, there can even be nutritional value in that flower, but in terms of quantity of sleep inducing actives, you should not expect benefits from cooking with flower over and extract from that flower. The sleep inducing components of the flower that will not be found in lower grade extracts are going to be reliably degraded/destroyed in most cooking processes.

The sleep inducing components found in flower that are not found in lower grade extracts are found more abundantly in higher grade extracts than in the flower itself! Myrcene and linalool are much more abundant in high terpene containing extracts than in the original flower. If you have full melt produced appropriately, you'll end up with greatly higher quantities of these components than in the original flower with a very full representation of the entire chemical profile of the original resin on the flower. Of course, all of this is relevant to inhaling, not for cooking, which will diminish the relevant actives (whilst contributing some other sleep inducing actives such as CBN).

When it comes to inhaling for sleep, I've got very persistent, lifelong and neurologically based insomnia. Flowers are useless for that, enough may make me fall asleep, but I wake up very soon after. Inhalable concentrates are the best medicine I've ever used for lasting sleep and will have added years to my life due to the medications that they have replaced. Cooking with every last bit of resin that I can get out of my extraction byproducts is just gravy :D
 
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