delayed combustion of butane vapes due to less oxygen present

[funkyjunky]

so, the title basically says it.

i wanted to discuss a bit about how ppl usually report they can get dark abv and good extraction from butane vapes while avoiding combustion.

could it be that, because the heat source is not heated atmospheric air but combustion products like CO2 and H2O. the combustion of the load it self is prevented by a lack of oxygen?

combustion needs oxygen, otherwise it doesnt happen, only charring, a form of decomposition.
now because a torch burns butane and uses a lot of oxygen for that, the resulting gas mixture that heats the load is poorer in oxygen than atmospheric air. i even guess there is almost no oxygen when the flame is big and not much surrounding air is sucked in through the air intake.


some days ago i had a weird thing happen that i can only explain with this. i took a bowl really far, abv was very dark but not combusted. as i emptied the still hot load, there was a random spark and the hole thing ignited and burned through very slowly. my only explanation at this point would be, the spontaneous ignition temperature is dependent on oxygen concentration, which increased suddenly when i empied the chamber and introduced fresh air to the spent material.


thinking a bit further with this theory, suffocation aside, if we would supply an inert/safe gas like nitrogen on our vape air intakes we could prevent or delay combustion also in desktops/battery powered devices.

 

[TheVaporist]

Yep, your true and this phenomena is called pyrolyse, this how we make charcoal, by burning wood in an airless container

A black ABV is carbonated weed, much closer to combustion than vaporization to me

It would be good to know with by-products are present when getting close to combustion temp in an almost airless environment.
I wonder how it'll compare with a lower temp vaporization.

 

[Baron23]

so, the title basically says it.

i wanted to discuss a bit about how ppl usually report they can get dark abv and good extraction from butane vapes while avoiding combustion.

could it be that, because the heat source is not heated atmospheric air but combustion products like CO2 and H2O. the combustion of the load it self is prevented by a lack of oxygen?

combustion needs oxygen, otherwise it doesnt happen, only charring, a form of decomposition.
now because a torch burns butane and uses a lot of oxygen for that, the resulting gas mixture that heats the load is poorer in oxygen than atmospheric air. i even guess there is almost no oxygen when the flame is big and not much surrounding air is sucked in through the air intake.


some days ago i had a weird thing happen that i can only explain with this. i took a bowl really far, abv was very dark but not combusted. as i emptied the still hot load, there was a random spark and the hole thing ignited and burned through very slowly. my only explanation at this point would be, the spontaneous ignition temperature is dependent on oxygen concentration, which increased suddenly when i empied the chamber and introduced fresh air to the spent material.


thinking a bit further with this theory, suffocation aside, if we would supply an inert/safe gas like nitrogen on our vape air intakes we could prevent or delay combustion also in desktops/battery powered devices.

That sounds like it might have some validity for vapes like the Sticky Bricks perhaps where there is open air path from flame to herb but this is a convection vape as far as I can tell. I say may because I know many with a keen interest and love of Sticky Bricks while I have never used this type of vape personally so I don't want to cast unfounded aspersions.

I don't think it can possibly apply to something like the VapCap where the chamber wall is heated but no flame products are drawn into the vape.

 

[funkyjunky]

That sounds like it might have some validity for vapes like the Sticky Bricks perhaps where there is open air path from flame to herb but this is a convection vape as far as I can tell. I say may because I know many with a keen interest and love of Sticky Bricks while I have never used this type of vape personally so I don't want to cast unfounded aspersions.

I don't think it can possibly apply to something like the VapCap where the chamber wall is heated but no flame products are drawn into the vape.

absolutely! only butane vapes that use the flame while inhaling like, sticky/daisy,lotus,vaporgenie,vapocane maybe. oh and the okin most likely

 

[TheVaporist]

The pyrolyse can happen anywhere where oxygen is lacking and above 200°c (up to 1000°c), no matters if the flame is in contact or not. It's just a matter of temperature breaking molecules

It can happen in the vapcap too, if the internal temperature of the chamber is high enough ( way past the click of course) , on the Ti version the screen and the cap makes an the environment poorer in oxygen as long as you don't draw and the load is gonna be black and looks like charcoal,without ashes or combustion trace.

If course this is a bit a common case and ending with such ABV may warn you to lower the temp

 

[Buildozer]

....combustion needs oxygen, otherwise it doesnt happen, only charring, a form of decomposition.
now because a torch burns butane and uses a lot of oxygen for that, the resulting gas mixture that heats the load is poorer in oxygen than atmospheric air. i even guess there is almost no oxygen when the flame is big and not much surrounding air is sucked in through the air intake....

Interesting way to look at it, that never would've crossed my mind..
The butane vapes like Triihouse and Stickybricks, have a carb hole that does let some fresh air in to the mix, and I feel it's one very important part of how well they function..

....some days ago i had a weird thing happen that i can only explain with this. i took a bowl really far, abv was very dark but not combusted. as i emptied the still hot load, there was a random spark and the hole thing ignited and burned through very slowly. my only explanation at this point would be, the spontaneous ignition temperature is dependent on oxygen concentration, which increased suddenly when i empied the chamber and introduced fresh air to the spent material.

thinking a bit further with this theory, suffocation aside, if we would supply an inert/safe gas like nitrogen on our vape air intakes we could prevent or delay combustion also in desktops/battery powered devices.

That has happened to me w/ the EVO a couple times.. I pulled out an ELB that ignited as soon as it got some air.. usually when I forgot to turn it down from max after the heat soak, and left the spent load sitting in the hot EVO for a while.

A little while back someone around here brought up the Nitrogen thing too, not sure if it was in a thread or PM I think it's pretty interesting too, I was never aware of the possibility before I bet some one will do it before too long!