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Dangers of Vaping - Our Beloved Waxy Build-up?

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by VWFringe, Jun 21, 2011.

  1. JacFlasche

    JacFlasche Member

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    The last thing I read about cancer and herb is that even heavy smokers of herb had less lung cancer statistically than people who don't smoke or vap anything at all. So it may indeed be doing something to guard against cancer.
  2. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    And a newer 20 year study shows cannabis smoking alone does not increase the risk for COPD or cause lung decline. So I would say there is not a single reason to be worried about vapor.
  3. Jeppy

    Jeppy JedHI Vaporist

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    I'm 89 years old and still vaping! :rockon: I have the lungs of a 49 year old. :tup:
  4. weedemon

    weedemon enthusiast

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    holy crap jeppy! glad to have such a seasoned toker among us!

    Since this thread began I have learned about using ethanol to extract the fats and waxes off your bho extracts. and i totally agree that these can be removed to up the purity of your extracts. :)

    you were totally on to something MR WVF :)
  5. Jeppy

    Jeppy JedHI Vaporist

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    weedemon,,,,I was just bullshittin. I'm 49. :worms: But I have been seasoning since the 70's.
  6. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    I was just sitting there for like a whole minute trying to picture what a 90 year that still vapes looks like. :doh:
  7. Jeppy

    Jeppy JedHI Vaporist

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    LMFAO. I just woofed my fuckin cookies! :bowdown:
  8. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    I think lwien is older than that.... so they probably all look like him, I suppose.... Cats with headphones. That's my final answer.
    Nycdeisel likes this.
  9. scottio19

    scottio19 scotty

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    haha your logic is completely logical. I wonder what max temp the nail reaches on the average sesh, never used one myself. If it vaporizes the other "inactive" compounds that we all know is there because no wax can be completely pure, then maybe it is reaching much higher temps than that of normal herb vaporizers that run in the 350-450F range. Which is probably why the impurities can also be vaporized while not leaving anything behind, unlike a convection vaporizer which for the most part will only extract thc and cbds if kept at a moderate temp.

    this is all conjecture though. I have only topped bowls with wax
  10. kertong

    kertong *please delete me*

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    This confuses me because it goes against what I've heard previously.

    I know OP is saying the waxy buildup is good and is what coats/protects his lungs from vapor.

    However, my research indicates that this waxy buildup, among other irritants and particulates in the vapor, is what temporarily paralyzes your cilia hairs in your lungs, and prevents them from waving and moving mucus upwards into the mouth/throat where it can be swallowed with all the irritants and particulates inside.

    If this doesn't happen, you get lung irritation from the shit sitting in there so long, and your cilia can't move the mucus up (so you can't get any air under it to cough it out.. you'll cough and cough but nothing will come out). That's why when you go to sleep, you stop smoking, the lungs break down and get rid of the waxy coating, and the cilia move again. Wake up, and bam - smoker's cough in the morning, with all that morning phlegm coming up.

    Continuing to build up this "waxy coating" like it's a good thing will result in permanent cilia immotility. This will result in bronchial irritation every time you smoke, eventually leading to chronic bronchitis, then COPD if not treated.

    This happened with me when I was vaping 24/7. At first I would cough up phlegm every morning after vaping, but I kept waking and baking, and vaping 24/7 anyway. After about 2 months I stopped getting the morning coughup/phlegm - I did not know it at the time but this was an indication of my completely destroyed and immobilized cilia. I continued to vape, and found myself chronically afflicted with bronchitis. Anytime I went outside and there was a change in air temps, I'd cough up a dry hacking unproductive storm, and even indoors afterwards, say during dinner with friends, I could not complete a sentence without stifling and supressing a nagging dry cough.

    Be careful, vaping is WAY healthier than combustion but it is not a free ticket to joy. All in moderation.
    OO, NewSchoolExplorer and sessnet like this.
  11. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this man completely and experienced similar symptoms in the past. If anything unlike smoking with vaping its hard to tell when to stop, and on top of it most people hold the hits in for like 10 seconds. I think that is very unhealthy, anything you inhale(smoke/vapor) should be exhaled as quick as possible for obvious reasons. I would never hold smoke or vapor in more than 3 seconds, health comes before getting the most "high".
  12. Longbones

    Longbones Active Member

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    Scary shit, can't agree enough. Every time I get scared about my consumption I end up taking a t-break but it'd be easier to simply only vape 1-2x a day. Would you say your cilia have recovered? And would you mind linking some of the major sources in your research? Also, at that point after 2 months did you still have any phlegm or were your lungs just completely dry and irritated? Curious, because in my case more vaping/smoking = more fluid in my lungs in general, and more coughing up of phlegm. Annoying, but I know now it's a symptom of the inflammatory response, and it goes away if I stop for a long period of time. Always curious to learn more about the health effects of vaping, there's too little information out there...
  13. Longbones

    Longbones Active Member

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    Scary shit, can't agree enough. Every time I get scared about my consumption I end up taking a t-break but it'd be easier to simply only vape 1-2x a day. Would you say your cilia have recovered? And would you mind linking some of the major sources in your research? Also, at that point after 2 months did you still have any phlegm or were your lungs just completely dry and irritated? Curious, because in my case more vaping/smoking = more fluid in my lungs in general, and more coughing up of phlegm. Annoying, but I know now it's a symptom of the inflammatory response, and it goes away if I stop for a long period of time. Always curious to learn more about the health effects of vaping, there's too little information out there...
  14. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    I think it has more to do with most people vaping and smoking dry herb and not enough moisture along with the substances that enter the lungs and therefore throws the moisture out of balance within the lungs which forces it to make more mucus and this is the reason why you really feel it the next day because night time, specifically sleep, is when the body heal itself. If you puff all day this will eventually immobilize the cilia and eventually bring harm to the lungs due to not having enough moisture to keep the lungs healthy from the substances hardening up and preventing the lungs from doing their thing. This process is why heart disease is a problem but it happens in a different way. Think about it how much food can you eat that is dry like the herb most people puff and it doesn't cause them problems like dry mouth, can't really taste the food, and in a theory I have, health problems. I really feel a lot of the issues people have with health can be related to the fact that most people eat food that isn't high in moisture and causes the body to work harder to keep the balance. Even if you drink water most of it isn't attached to anything and you will piss most of it out. If you eat a lot of protein and carbs they will pull more moisture out of your tissues then what they give and cause problems down the line. This is why eating beans that have been boiled real good is so good because it absorbs and hold the water it needs due to the soluble fiber and it's rich in amino acids. The same with grains that have been boiled and left to absorb the water until it's cooked.

    This is why I recommend using a humidor beads or boveda packs. You can make sure you have enough moisture to attach to the substances that are hygroscopic(cellulose and certain terpenoids within the plant) while preventing mold growth.

    At first I was nervous about inhaling that extra moisture until I realized that the terpenes that it attaches to have antibacterial and antiviral properties so no pneumonia or other lung infections and they will help bring extra blood flow to the lungs which means healthier lungs.
  15. kertong

    kertong *please delete me*

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    Hi Longbones,

    I think so. I'm on a vacation with family at the moment, and I left the herb at home (though I did bring some edible capsules just in case.) I'm on day 10 without any smoke or vapor, and yes, my cilia are definitely recovering. On about day 3, I stopped coughing randomly completely. On about day 4 and day 5, I would wake up with some phlegm in my throat (first time I've felt this in months). It would be super easy to cough just once and blow that mucus out of my throat. Sometimes I'd just be walking around with my wife and will just notice that my throat is a little phlegmmy feeling, out of the blue. One cough, and a small little loogie to spit out (sorry for the gross detail but I thought it was relevant)

    On day 6/7, I started coughing again like I did when I was vaping regularly. However, each time I coughed, even though I hadn't smoked/vaped for about 7-8 days, phlegm would come up when I coughed. It made no sense to me at first but... now it does. My cilia are finally starting to move and work again, so all the phlegm and crap that have been sitting on my lungs are finally able to be moved up and cleared out.

    Luciano, I think you are correct. I got the most bronchial irritation and rhinitis symptoms from hitting the vaporizers dry, and it happened most with directdraw, short stem vapes (MFLB, PD are the two big ones I remember). But if I filtered it through water, the irritation would be almost completely eliminated, but not totally.

    As for research, it's hard as cannabis is schedule I, vaporizing is relatively new, so specific research is hard to come by. But google around for "cilia immotility", this is a good overview: http://www.med.unc.edu/pulmonary/areas-and-programs/pcd-research-treatment-at-unc
  16. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    You should do some running as this will help speed up the healing. I went through the same thing once. I was SCARED AS FUCK because I though I was losing my lungs. What happened was me and a friend was puffing on a hookah and I thought he added more herb then honey tobacco and I was inhaling HARD because the herb was really weak and I wanted a better effect and get a rush of the herb instead of a steady flow. Well about two days later I guess all the smoking built up and the honey condensed in my lungs and when I would inhale I would feel like I have to force myself to get a good amount of air and I would be weezing which you can actually hear. When I would lay down it would really be worse from the weight of my gut adding to the problem of my lungs being weak. I though I was going to need something to help me breathe until I went to the gym and did a run because the next day I felt a little better and then it went away within that week. I know your pain kertong.

    Just do a nice smooth run without exerting yourself. You just what to bring more blood to your lungs to help clean it out. Also make sure you drink a lot of water before, during and right after the workout because this is what's needed to help make the mucus to clean the lungs out.

    Also, the reason why even vaping through water won't totally get rid of it is because the vapor is much lighter than water and the water won't come into contact with every part of the vapor and the effects will still happen just not as much. Adding moisture before the inhale will prevent these problems. Go to Boveda and get a you a pack and see for yourself.

    http://www.bovedadirect.com/
    kertong likes this.
  17. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    BTW, if you do get some boveda packs, your herb won't grind real fine so you can either grind the herb when it's dry first then put it in a closed space with the boveda or you can vape the moistened herb for 2-3 puffs then regrind the herb and continue to puff as the first inhales will release the water and dry out the herb more to allow a more finer grind.
  18. kertong

    kertong *please delete me*

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    Thanks luchiano, that's great advice. I'll take you up on the running. I do some weight lifting occasionally just to keep myself somewhat healthy but nothing to exercise the cardiovascular system. Running/biking sounds like a great way to keep the lungs healthy - so that I can ultimately vape even more :D :D

    The boveda packs look interesting, how exactly does it work? Does it get crammed into the tube of the bong so that the vapor filters through it?

    I have one of them cheapie vick's humidifiers, wonder if I can rig that up somehow. But yeah, I like your idea of the moisture beads, I can probably soak them in water, throw them in the freezer before using them to get chilled and moisture-added hits?
  19. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    770
    The Boveda packs and the humidor beads are the same thing but the boveda packs work better in my opinion.

    What they do is keep the moisture at a certain level and you store your herb in a closed container with them so the herb can absorb the moisture and give more flavor, odor ,and smoothness. In the case of the boveda packs you don't have to check the levels or anything as it will adjust to how much moisture your herb needs whether it is more or less.
  20. Longbones

    Longbones Active Member

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    Does the size of the container matter for these? I think Boveda's are used in the CVault, yes? Also, later hits of the herb will still be just as dry...I'd think a combination of these guys and water filtration would be ideal.

    Thanks for the info, kertong! (No worries about grossing me out, as I said my problem is EXCESS phlegm--getting ready for a nice long break, I think).
  21. kertong

    kertong *please delete me*

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    Hey, that brings me to an idea/question.. if you'er going to store your herb with moisture/humidor beads, can you just store them in a traditional cigar humidor?

    I did a bit of research and it seems that cannabis is best stored in a humidor at an RH range of around 60-65%, lower than tobacco. Anyone try it yet? I love spongy sticky cannabis and it always makes me sad to watch it dry out in its jar over time..
  22. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    You want some space for a quick absorption of the moisture. Something like a cigar wood chamber is good as long as you have room for the boveda to do it's thing to all the herbs.

    Yes, the CVault does use boveda, although it say's they are humidipaks and the company say's they change the name to boveda to stop confusion of the two even though they are the same thing. I never saw the product, I like the way it's made.

    Yes, the later hits will be dry hot air when using a vaporizer but it still won't cause lungs issues. So you can either use a water filter or you can have some water on hand to prevent dry mouth. With smoking this doesn't happen everything is released together due to the high heat releasing everything at once.
    kertong likes this.
  23. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    You can use a traditional cigar humidor but you have to constantly make sure your levels are right or you can have mold growth whereas with the boveda packs that isn't a worry as it's automatic.
    kertong likes this.
  24. kertong

    kertong *please delete me*

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    Both posts above is *fantastic* information, luciano. I'll be sure to pick up a humidor and boveda. Your diagnosis is SPOT on - my sinusitis, bronchial irritation, the wheezing/rattling in the chest/throat (got I HATE that the MOST UGH), etc... all that was only caused when vaping, but when I smoked, whether a joint, bong, or pipe, it rarely, if ever, caused that kind of irritation and rattling/wheezing.

    God, I love this community. Thanks, everyone.
  25. Nycdeisel

    Nycdeisel Well-Known Member

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    Be careful with your herb and monitoring its moisture content. Mold is a very real possibility and as we all know molds can be very bad for our health in many ways. Keep your herb dry enough to not mold, and dry enough to grind the right way for the particular vape you use and get a nice piece of glass, even a straight tube/beaker with a simple diffused downstem will help a lot.

    Cardio exercise is a good idea for many reasons, but definitely helps blood and oxygen get to the lungs. NEVER exert yourself while exercising because thats how you know you are hurting yourself... when it hurts! The saying of "no pain no gain" is a great way to do damage to your body. So dont go hard with it but taking some time to do such activity is beneficial for sure.

    Other things can help clean out the lungs, such as a salt inhaler using pure pink Himalayan salt. Just look it up, they are easy to find online and are fairly inexpensive. Im going to get one for my brother because he has pollen allergies. It can also help with things like asthma and bronchitis, and just to help clean the lungs. FYI workers in the himalayan salt mines do not get respiratory disease working in there, salt is very healing, IF and only if it is this kind of pure natural salt, not processed,heated, and bleached crap that has also had garbage anti-caking agents added.
    There are many uses for this pure pink salt such as salting your food with it, using brine solutions referred to as Sole(pronounced "so-lay") to gargle with, or to drink a teaspoon of Sole in a cup of water each morning before eating, and for other things. Himalayan pink salt can also be added to a pot of boiling water, where you can then breathe in the steam for 10-15 minutes while you have a towel over the head. There are also salt lamps, but you must be careful as there are many fakes and cheap knockoffs out there, so be sure it is PURE pink Himalayan salt and nothing else. These salt lamps can help to purify the air in parts of your home(to work they must be placed in a spot where you spend most of your time, as they dont have a very wide range).
    I have started by drinking a teaspoon with 1 cup of water before first eating each day. This salt can aid in detoxifying your body as well.

    One more big thing you all may not realize in reference to health, and the lungs especially, are cleaning products and air sprays used in your home. get rid of all the synthetic ones and replace them with natural items that will clean and sanitize your home such as - vinegar, baking soda, hydrogen peroxide, lemon juice, and liquid castile soap.
    Take note that I DO NOT mean those packaged cleaning products that advertise as "green" or what have you, since just about all of those contain a similar toxic cocktail to the normal gigantic corporation brand cleaners.
    use the natural items I listed, most of which are even safe to eat.

    Showering with tap water is also worse then drinking tap, so look into a good filter for your shower that will remove chlorine and other things in the water supply, as showering is the main source of inhaling chlorine in your home, along with many other toxins that are breathed in and absorbed into your skin.

    Hope everyone enjoys good health and clear lungs! :)
    kertong likes this.

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