1. What does SSTB mean? See our glossary of acronyms.
    Dismiss Notice

'Da Cork Bomber' - Make Shift Homemade Log Vape

Discussion in 'DIY' started by blokenoname, Apr 10, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,341
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    Those heaters look pretty interesting . What kind of SS is the outer shell does it say ? Also what material are the leads ?
    I think the Underdogs have those type of heaters.
    Did you just strip the insulation of heater like this or it came bare wires ? http://www.elecfreaks.com/store/reprap-12v-40w-ceramic-cartridge-heater-p-572.html
     
    KeroZen likes this.
  2. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Yep. It's the exact same kind of cartridge. Cut off the lead wire, stripped the insulation from the contacts and removed the clamps, that connected the lead wire to the contacts. No idea about the ss type yet, though.

    Would be interesting to know, if the Underdog uses the same type of heater. Works pretty well so far. Came up with the idea this morning, after I'd unsuccessfully experimented with setting the halogen bulb into a ss heater cover (charred and overheated , as I was unable to set the bulb high enough into the ss cover), when I remembered those little buggers here, which I got earlier this year but hadn't used so far, due to lack of suitable PS & dimmer.
    They make a perfect fit for a slim, tube like ss heater cover.

    However, why not trying it in a glass cover first? Unit's running for 10 hours straight now and everything looks pretty reliable and solid so far. Ok.. there's that furnace glow, when you hit the 200°+ C, which you wouldn't notice so much within a ss heater cover, but that even looks kinda cool, due to the glass and reflector :D
     
  3. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,341
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    Does the heating element glow in vaping temps ? I dont think it is very good to inhale red hot metal,even if it ss316L or ti.
    Did you try putting a ss sleeve on the halogen bulb or you just inserted it in a SS heater cover/tube.
    I also like that glow very much though..
     
  4. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145

    It's not melting ;). Just emitting light!

    Well, metals will emit light at some point, when heated up properly to some useful temps (think of the white hot filament within the halogen bulb). That's why you need a robust material like ss, that does not melt and lasts a long time through repeated heating and cooling. Otherwise you'll have to use a pure ceramic heater or a really massive piece of metal, to avoid this. Even the Herborizer XL heater (as I said, basically a larger version of those 3D printer heater cartridges) does that, though it takes longer and the glow is much fainter, due to it having more mass. Might not be noticeable in broad daylight but clearly visible when you stick it into a dark tube, like I did in my very first Cork Bomber model. Same for other iron based heaters. That you don't notice the glow more often, is mostly due to the fact, that the heater isn't visible from the outside in many appliances. If I'd use a stainless heater cover instead of glass, you probably wouldn't even notice the glow, as it would be hidden from sight by the steel cover on the sides and by two fine mesh screens within the cover, when looking from above. Anyways... the filament in E-cigarettes gets red hot... a Vapcap gets red hot, when you brutalize it with a butane torch... the hot plates of your stove get red hot under their metal or ceramic covering... bit hard to avoid wgen you wanne produce some serious heat, me thinks ;)

    This is the extent of the glow at vaping temp in broad daylight:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  5. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,341
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    [​IMG]
    Here is the a table which relates color to temperature. You should check if it is safe for the metal it is made of.
    Continuous use of 316 in the 425-860°C range is not recommended . Chromium can form hexavalent chromium and possess a health hazard.

    Тhere are many guys here and some other places that warn against red hot metals,cause red hot they start to produce fumes.
    Ecig coils should never glow red hot you can check there is ton of info online on it.Also i notice pretty strong metallic taste if you torch your vapcap redhot ,i only do now from distance few cm from where the flame ends.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
    KeroZen, steama and blokenoname like this.
  6. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Thx. Good to know :) Haven't found any info on the exact type of ss yet. So I can only compare it to the Herborizer XL heater (sadly, one of the contacts broke off :( , but as I don't have any info about the ss type it uses either... well :p

    [​IMG]
     
    steama and Abysmal Vapor like this.
  7. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,341
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    Herborizer heater says it is made out of surgical steel which means it is either 316 ,or 440 or 420. LOL i didnt know there is SS420 :D why isnt it used in vaping ?

    Analysis SS420
    C .08 Max.
    Mn 2.00 Max.
    P .040 Max.
    Mo 2.00/3.00
    S .030 Max.
    Si .750 Max.
    Cr 16.00/18.00
    Ni 10.00/14.00

    Analysis SS316
    C .22-.27
    Mn 1.00 Max.
    Si 1.00 Max.
    P .040 Max.
    S .030 Max.
    Cr 12.5/14.00
     
    blokenoname likes this.
  8. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

    Messages:
    3,919
    Location:
    SouthWest Ontario, Canada
    I would use a SS that has no nickel in it.
     
    KeroZen, steama and Abysmal Vapor like this.
  9. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,341
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    It seems that i have misplace results for SS316 and SS420..
    Then do you think SS420 is better ? From what i see it has less Zero Ni and Mo,Less Mn. The only thing is has more is carbon.

    Analysis ss420
    C .22-.27
    Mn 1.00 Max.
    Si 1.00 Max.
    P .040 Max.
    S .030 Max.
    Cr 12.5/14.00


    AISI 316
    ASTM A 240

    Analysis
    C .08 Max.
    Mn 2.00 Max.
    P .040 Max.
    Mo 2.00/3.00
    S .030 Max.
    Si .750 Max.
    Cr 16.00/18.00
    Ni 10.00/14.00


    SS430 seems even lower in carbon than 420. Is that a good or bad thing healthwise though ?

    • AISI 430
    • Analysis
    • C .12 Max.
    • MN 1.00 Max.
    • Si 1.00 Max
    • P .040 Max.
    • S .030 Max.
    • S .030 Max.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  10. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Well, another thing is, that I maybe calculated the heat output of these little buggers a bit too low :D

    Yesterday, with the glass cover, I started out with 4h on my dial (the same setting, I use for the 35W halogen heater) and got good results... but realized later on, that I was already nearly combusting, when reducing draw speed. Set it back to 3h and everything was fine (That's also the point on the dial, where it starts producing that faint red glow like in the pic above).

    I sat one of the heaters into another body with a stainless heater cover, though (a few cm of my thin walled 11 mm ss tubing) and it's already combusting at 3h on the dial! 2h is max fir the ss cover. At that pint, there's no glowing at all.
    Guess, I'll need another dimmer, with a bit more leeway on the dial in the lower voltage/temp vicinity, as the hole vaping range for three different kinds of heaters are within the first 20 minutes of the dial now. Bit tricky when fine tuning :p

    ETA: Yup! Can run it a bit lower with the glass cover too! Takes some time to adjust to the new dimmer ;)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
    steama and Abysmal Vapor like this.
  11. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Obviously had too much time on my hands... :D

    ETA: red glow of the ss/ceramic heater at vape temps is absolutly gone now, as it sits much higher in the cover now and nearer to the load. No need to crank it up to a red glow.

    [​IMG]
     
    KeroZen, Copacetic, boon and 3 others like this.
  12. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    At last, we address the issue with the friggin' clamps...

    If you can't screw it, crimp it! I just cut off a tiny piece from the 0,3 mm thick ss sheet, I use for the reflector/heatsink, bent it in half, stuck the contacts in and crimped it down. Sits tight and secure.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

    Messages:
    3,919
    Location:
    SouthWest Ontario, Canada

    That is exactly what all the log makers recommend!
    If you can solder it first with lead free solder and then crimp, just in case.
     
    Copacetic and blokenoname like this.
  14. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,341
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    Nice work. Yes crimps dont protect wires from oxidizing, i think it is best if you use silver soldier ,it is safe up to 400 C and is easy to work with. Also looked into those heaters. The leads are Nichrome wires just like with the log vape resistors it will oxidize and fail overtime , so as advised before use silver and dont run redhot.
    Here is how they look without the metal shell. [​IMG]
    Edited :
    Just came to mind that you might try making coils out the heating element leads and inserting that onto the straight ended ss wires.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
    Copacetic and blokenoname like this.
  15. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    ... Bamboo body, cork base, glass core with ceramic/ss heater.

    [​IMG]
     
    KeroZen, MUSA Vaporizer, boon and 4 others like this.
  16. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,341
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    Looks really cool,but i kind of prefer the natural finish of the bamboo,this one looks like it has been sanded :). I did two or three resistor logs modeled after the HI which have them for months and the bamboo is still as new,really durable material. Alan's design is where simplicity meets perfection. Imo the only thing that can fail in this concept is the heater connections if they dont get soldiered .
    Also i think you should consider switching to natural cork for the base because this one contains wax and possibly foodgrade glue from what i read,it might off gas or at least smell bad.
    -----------------
    Btw did some research on halogen bulbs and it seems that the encasing is Quartz ,i though it was made out of boro originally. Such a cool heater source.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
  17. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Oh... the cork does not only contain waxes... it stinks like a wholesale soap factory :D

    ... as it served as a lid to a jar, containing a scented candle :p
    Horrible!

    I just wanted to see, if I could make Alan's Bamboo HI design work for me. Works :D

    Already ordered some natural bamboo (also of a smaller dianeter) and some better quality cork.
     
  18. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    As I'm also experimenting with ss heater covers... how do you prevent a short, when threading the heater into the conductive ss heater cover? With a glass cover, I just need to keep the wires apart within the glass, but it's hard avoiding the wires touching the cover itself within the confinement of an 8-10 mm tube. No problem with glass, but surely one with a conductive heater cover. Will some glass beads (saw this in the 'Log Resistors' thread), keeping the wires apart and from the tube walls be enough to prevent a short?

    Right now, I'm only threading in the heater cartridge itself right up into the ss cover, while the nichrome & ss wires extend downwards into the body. This works for the time being, but can't be the optimal solution, as it places a) the heater too far from the load (it sits more or less right at the bottom of the heater cover, extending only about 3 cm upwards) , so that I've to crank up the heat even more than in my glass cover logs, and b) heats up the base of the log more than probably necessary, though I've less problems with actual charring, than expected. Positioning the heater higher up in the cover, seems to be the solution here, but as I said, I'm a bit unsure how to reliable prevent a short, if I thread it in more/higher into the ss cover with the wires and all, like I do in the glass cover?

    Though me logs have come a long way, from my first Cork Bomber improvisation, I'm still a friggin' noob in designing and building log vapes :D
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
    boon and Abysmal Vapor like this.
  19. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

    Messages:
    3,919
    Location:
    SouthWest Ontario, Canada
    @blokenoname

    Go to Walmart and look in the jewelry making craft section and buy some glass beads with holes in them.
    Feed the wires through the holes in the beads for insulation.
     
    Abysmal Vapor and blokenoname like this.
  20. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Like I saw in your Log Vape Resistors thread? Ok. Will do that. Thx :)
     
    lazylathe likes this.
  21. lazylathe

    lazylathe Almost there...

    Messages:
    3,919
    Location:
    SouthWest Ontario, Canada
    Exactly!
    Super cheap and effective insulators.
     
    blokenoname likes this.
  22. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    Ok. No glass beads at hand for the moment, so I utilized a tiny Boro tube, that I broke into several parts, to see if I could make this work, till I get my hand on some beads. So far no short out :D

    But remains to be seen, if the glass of the tubing pieces cracks from the heat and contact to the ss cover.

    ETA: and have to get a stainless version of that hose nozzle, keeping the cover in place ;)

    ETA2: aghhh! This is more like it! :rockon:;pd;

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
    lazylathe and Abysmal Vapor like this.
  23. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    1,088
    Location:
    Denver area
    @blokenoname - Thanks for the mentions. Others have borrowed my concepts/designs without mentioning where they got it. I’m all for advancing the log vaporizer design. Looks like you are having fun trying different things to see which works the best. The bamboo shell is really an exciting material since it is already round and hollow. Doesn’t get much more renewable. Cork is another really great material to use. Here is my latest design which uses natural cork rings to hold the glass and stainless steel heater covers. They may give you some more ideas to use.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Both heater covers use the same resistor/heating element, but I have installed a 1/4” ss sleeve over the one for the glass heater cover to act as a radiant energy shield and provide some thermal mass. Since the wires provided with the resistor aren’t long enough, I extend them using uninsulated butt splice connectors which are soldered to the wires. The wires are stiff enough to support the heating element and positioned so that they won’t short out. The wires are soldered directly to the power socket which is held in place with the provided nut. This allows you to position the solder tabs so they line up with the wires. The wrap of the wire around the heating element keeps it centered in the tube. That is a trick I learned from @hazy
    I do use the glass beads to insulate the wires for my Toasty Top heating element, but that is because it threads in and it is possible to twist the wires if you aren’t careful. The glass beads for wire insulation was a trick I learned at the nuclear power plant. They were used in applications where the wire insulation would melt from the heat. I believe that Ed is now using them to insulate the heater wires rather than use the teflon wire insulation which is a good move.

    Getting the cork ring sized to fit the bamboo is the hardest part (hole in the bamboo is tricky too). It helps if you can find bamboo tubes that are almost perfectly round. The cork rings also work well in wooden tubes and are a bit easier since you can control the size of the hole in the wood. The ss and glass heater covers only reach about 200F at the cork ring which is well within the 275F rating. The glass heater cover slides into a hole in the cork and the ss heater cover is held down with ss screws. The glass heater cover is 10mm which is just slightly larger than the 3/8” ss heater cover. The roasting tubes will slide over and work with both types of heater cover. I connect a ss washer to the 3/8” ss tube and cut notches for the screws. I use another cork ring to close off the bottom hole. Would love to make the entire thing from natural cork if I could find some that is big enough.

    Good to see someone else building vaporizers with cork and bamboo. Best of luck.
     
  24. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

    Messages:
    3,341
    Location:
    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    @Alan This is one great concept indeed ,i have recreated it successfully few times and there are friends using them for some time, only one failed and it was because i tried to get around the soldering part with just tying the wires :). Thank you very much for being so open about your HI design it has helped me a great deal with my DIYs.
     
  25. blokenoname

    blokenoname Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    145
    @Alan


    Thanks for the kind words and great advice and information :)

    Your HI thread has indeed been a great source of inspiration and information for me, in the last months. If it weren't for the hustle here in good old Germany, with customs and all, when importing a Log from the US, you'd find my name on your HI list immediately.

    Your Bamboo HI design is really genius. Where simplicity meets perfection, as AbysmalVapor has put it somewhere else. It was also so easy to recreate, that I almost couldn't believe it myself, when holding a fully functional log vape in my hands, after barely half an hour's work :D

    That's even more simple, than my older prototypes set into the small maple wood goblets, I used up until now. While they are nice and easy to work on, I still have to use two of them (one complete goblet of 8,5 cm hight, the bottom of which holds the heater cover and so fulfills the function of the first cork ring in your bamboo HI design, and about 1/3 of a second goblet, to create the base section from, that holds the 12V input plug and the heater itself, also supported by it's own wires, directly connected to the plug. Main problem in this design: I had to glue the top section of the vape to the base section, as these goblets are so thin walled, that I can't drill holes through a wall's length, for screwing them together without splintering the wood (at least not, with the tools at hand) :(
    The bamboo, being all in one piece, is surely the better solution here.

    I also used some ready made bamboo goblets for my first Bamboo HI clone in the pic above, which had the advantage of already being relatively round and sanded down, but on the other hand are also a bit on the 'fat' side for a log, measuring 12 cm in hight and nearly 8 cm at their widest part. So I ordered some natural, untreated bamboo of 4-5 cm diameter, and also some natural cork of a fitting diameter, that'll hopefully arrive somewhen this week :D
    Really eager to try a ss heater cover with the cork base now ;)
    Also on the ordering list is a soldering iron, which I've to learn to use first, as I've never soldered anything in me whole life :D

    I tried a 11 mm/7 mm glass heater cover first in my bamboo log, but then settled for a 13 mm glass tube with 10 mm inner diameter. This is more compatible to my already existing 10 mm DIY ss tips (Yep. I'm guilty of also cloning your ss tip design for the roasting tubes... dimple and slide in ;)), which do not exactly slip into the glass cover, like they'd do with my 11 mm/10 mm (OD/ID) ss cover, due to the glass being slightly rounded off on the edges of the tube, but build a tight enough seal, when connecting the slightly rounded off edge of a ss tip to the slightly rounded glass cover of the same inner diameter. This works even better in a way, than having a tip slide in or slide over the cover, as I can not only move a tip up and down or twist it around in the heater port, but can also put it at an angle and literally move it in circles if need be, without loosing the seal :D

    But ok... you'll always need two hands then, when using the log as you've to hold the stem. But I'll do some slide over ss and glass tips anyway, once I get my hands on a decent glass tube cutter. Right now, I'm doing it the old fashioned way... taking a file to the glass, making a notch, grabbing both ends with a towel and... KNACK! ...
    hoping for the best, that the break will be relatively even :D
    Will have to see, if slide over tips/roasting tubes of a such relatively big diameter to fit the 13 mm OD of my glass cover will work without wasting too much material, or if I have to move back to the thinner 11 mm cover.
     
    KeroZen, lazylathe and boon like this.

Support FC, visit our trusted friends and sponsors