Custom Arizer Solo High Performance Battery Packs (Original thread)

[CentiZen]

Okay guys; good news and bad news. You ready for this?

The good news is that my solo came in. Great service from Randy for sure. Now I can start the next phase of testing.

However, the first little bit of that testing is not going as favorably as I was hoping it would. The M1A4 that I got is very different from the M1o2 I was used to, and is not working the way I thought that it was going to. I get a pretty, colorful light show with all of my batteries at the moment on this one. Not to mention the taste of this solo is kind of meh... that should change though.

I'm not totally out of idea's though and I think that I may still be able to get these working yet. But I just wanted to update you all on the situation as it is tonight.

Thanks guys!

 

[Dreamerr]

I have faith in you centizen. I am sure you will get obsessed till you see some light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck for a solution for your sake sooner then later.

 

[smokum]

Hope you get it worked out CentiZen.... my m102 just got retired due to battery fade (end of life?), and flipped over to my RoboFart M105 for now as I wait for you packs for old faithful.

Sure, I could just buy another new Solo......... but why, lol.

 

[CentiZen]

YES! Success! I have a custom pack driving the new guy now

The new solo's have a much lower drop off voltage than the older versions did, so the packs that I had assembled from fresh cells (which are uncharged) were beneath the acceptable voltage range for using the solo on; even charging. I guess the light show was the debug indication for that. Glad it was just a small issue, so when I tried charging them up it started working.

It would be really nice if Arizer could publish even the smallest amount of information about this device, even the debug indicators would be nice, but they are so damn quiet about everything. But oh well.

I'm planning on doing a week of hard real world testing of this design and then I will start assembling and testing the first set of packs. I've already ordered extra supplies because the list grew much faster than I thought it would. I'm afraid I won't be able to get to everyone in the first batch, but it should not be to much time to wait.

Thanks for all the support guys! Those of you who contacted me will be getting details soon.

EDIT: Damn it, murphy strikes again. There are some more issues going on, it shut off while running and wouldn't start up until I plugged it in. I think it is the protection circuit tripping for some reason, be it temperature or to much power.

My edit time has elapsed, so if a moderator would be so kind as to append this post to my last one, I would greatly appreciate it.

So I had a very productive morning of tests today, and I think I have narrowed down the issue to the cause. The new solo has more than just a lower dropout voltage than the earlier versions did, in fact it has an entirely different battery protection circuit. The older version of the solo simply used the traditional kind of battery protection circuit that will trip as soon as the voltages go outside of acceptable limits. But the circuit on the newer versions is a little more advanced than that. Not only does it take into account voltages, but fluctuations in current and other abnormalities.

The reason this causes a problem for me, is that I'm using one of these "intelligent" protection circuits on the batteries as well. These two circuits are conflicting with each other, and are causing the battery circuit to trip after a few minutes. Now there is a simple workaround to this, building the pack without a protection circuit.

Now the problem with that, is I don't know if I feel entirely comfortable selling batteries for general consumption that don't have their own discrete protection circuit in case somebody tried to use them in a device that does not have a protection circuit built in to its design. I know that it is entirely safe to use an unprotected pack in the solo, because the protection circuit built into it will stop anything bad from happening to the cells.

Unfortunately, it seems like this is really the only option to get these high-capacity packs working with the newer versions of the solo. I am going to continue testing the unprotected pack I'm using in my personal device for at least two weeks, because I don't think it is prudent to only test this new design for one week before making my decision. But it will need to be understood by everyone that if this pack is sold without a protection circuit it is not to be used in any other device then an Arizer solo, because I cannot guarantee it safe operation in a device that does not have protection built into the design.

 

[aesthyrian]

So does this mean those of of that are still rocking old M-105's will have an e-mail to purchase soon?

 

[stickstones]

centizen...doesn't that also mean it won't work on the older models?

 

[CentiZen]

That is to be determined - I am going to be testing the older model as well and if the standard protection circuit functions to my liking, then they will work just fine.

I don't think that Arizer would have released the first version without an acceptable protection circuit, and since elmomuzz was able to use his M102 without issue when he assembled his own pack without protection, I am pretty sure it will work. The compatibility is lessened in the new models, probably due to cost saving measures to drive the price down so they could still make a profit selling the units for 160 retail.

So all in all, I can't say yes to that question for another couple of hours, but I'd be willing to be money on it working.

 

[poonman]

" The compatibility is lessened in the new models, probably due to cost saving measures to drive the price down so they could still make a profit selling the units for 160 retail. "

So there was a slight circuitry change in their newer models released .
Could that be the explanation why some are experiencing these indicator lights blinking ,
and charging problems ?

 

[CentiZen]

Extremely likely, I wish that I had the time and skill to completely reverse engineer the board but Arizer makes that pretty difficult by scratching all of the serial numbers of the chips on the board. There is a very skilled engineer on youtube called Davey Jones (real name ) who I plan on sending the boards to after I'm done testing to see if he can work some magic. Anyone who is interested in electronics design should watch this guys regular show, EEVBlog which is where I learned majority of my EE skills from.

Until we get a reverse of the board done, there is no real way to say for sure what has been changed and what hasn't, so until then all I really have is an educated guess. But I think that it is very likely that Arizer is trying to minimize their costs to produce a unit, and in doing that have started using components that have smaller tolerances and voltage ranges. This would very much explain why there are so many issues with 3rd party chargers in the newer units.

In fact, to be honest I'm sort of disappointed in my new solo. I was expecting it to be just as good as my M102. But really, it tastes worse, runs like 20 degrees colder and is much more finicky than my old guy. It's still a good vape though, and I guess I was just spoiled by my M102.

Speaking of the M102, the unprotected battery pack is running identically as it is in the M1A4. The older protection circuit performs well, so I am not worried about incompatibility with older models.

I did my first real-world full drain test with the M1A4 and I was blown away by the results. I was able to run it for eleven individual sessions (12 minutes) at heat level 7 before the battery indicator went below 1. I imagine that it could be run two or three more times before crapping out completely, but that risks damaging the batteries future capacity. This is compared to the 5 - 6 individual sessions that can be expected from the Shenzhen Bofuneng Battery Company pack that Arizer uses in the stock design.

And to those of you who sent out emails to me, I will be contacting you very soon to cement the details with you. Thanks again everyone!

 

[olivianewtonjohn]

Temp differences could maybe due to ceramic bowl vs SS bowl? Just and idea that popped into my head

 

[CentiZen]

Yep, the reason for the change in temperature is the metal bowl, but it's still kind of disappointing.

 

[Dreamerr]

Centizen maybe check on how ataxian did it. He changed two units of batteries.

 

[CentiZen]

We had actually discussed his plans before he did the swap on the solo he was having issues with. He contacted me to make sure nothing could go wrong. But in that case he was using another pack that was made by Shenzhen Bofuneng so there was really no risk of failure. I was surprised at how well his solo worked after that though.

 

[aesthyrian]

Temp differences could maybe due to ceramic bowl vs SS bowl? Just and idea that popped into my head

I remember when the M105's came out that Arizer did actually lower the temp settings. I'm not sure if they kept it like that for later models but simply put, my M102 can get much hotter than my M105. I have completely removed all of the ceramic coating on the M102 so they both have SS bowls so you can rule out the ceramic coating as the reason for such large temperature differences in my two units.

 

[smokum]

I remember when the M105's came out that Arizer did actually lower the temp settings. I'm not sure if they kept it like that for later models but simply put, my M102 can get much hotter than my M105. I have completely removed all of the ceramic coating on the M102 so they both have SS bowls so you can rule the ceramic coating out as the reason for such large temperatures in my two units.

I concur.... I've had to recently return to my M105 since my M102 became pretty much not worth charging anymore for what it would produce, and I can say its definitely as you say regarding temps running cooler.

It works ok, but it just doesn't compare to the output of my ole faithful. And, I think I'm finally getting the robofart out of her.

 

[CentiZen]

Hi guys! I wanted to update you all on progress!

Ever since eliminating the second protection circuit from the packs they have worked flawlessly for me in testing. I have been using my solos more than I ever had before, partially because I want to test these packs as hard as I can, and partially because I really don't have to worry about a charge as much as I did before. I can just throw a charged up solo in my bag and take it to a friends house and not have to worry about it running dry on my. Half a battery makes it though a work day for me now. It's very freeing, actually.

I've been doing several tests as well to try to pin down exactly how much of a capacity boost these have in a real world scenario. These charts show the real world performance of both a brand new BFN pack, alongside my pack made out of NCR's. The Y axis represents the charge indication the solo gives when it is started up. The X axis represents how many cycles the vaporizer was put through. In this case, a cycle is one vaporization session (until the autoshutoff kicks in) at level 7 the whole time. The Solo is given 15 minutes to cool off in between cycles.

Please keep in mind that the disparity between the two versions is because the M102 runs approximately 20 degrees hotter than the M1A4 and has a larger thermal mass to deal with in the ceramic bowl. There is no difference in the batteries used in either test. Also keep in mind that this BFN pack is the brand new one that came with my M1A4, so it's capacity curve is not applicable to solos that have a significantly degraded battery.

I have been assembling packs all day today and I will be receiving my supplies to finish batch one very soon. I am going to send out the entirety of batch one at the same time to minimize my shipping hassles. I have also settled on a price. The total cost of a pack is going to be 48 dollars plus shipping. I am hoping I can afford to lower this price in the future through better scale discounts. If anyone on the preorder list feels this is too steep I completely understand and will have no hard feelings towards you.

Thank you all for your support!

 

[JLG]

Thanks for these valuable information
Since i have a new Solo, i'm not immediately interested to change the battery but maybe in the future.

 

[smokum]

I'm still in and awaiting my contact email

 

[oneinfinitecreator]

I'm sorry if this is off topic but I'm not quite sure where else to put this...

I have a M102 that stopped charging and gave a flashing red and green light when charging. I went on amazon and bought a battery from Atlantic Electronic System Inc. that was a 18650 7.4 2200mah li-ion pack (not sure if I can link or not - it was like $17 or so) - it had the same blue jacket that the stock batteries are in, which is why I made this eventual mistake (unless i'm doing it wrong). I also got some JST connectors from a RC supplies website for hooking it into the solo.

All said and done, the batteries came charged and the solo works. My problem is that when I plug it in to charge, it acts perfectly fine - except that the lights never move upwards. The lights blink properly and the charge light blinks green like normal, but nothing changes. After I have used it one or two times, I've plugged it in and the light above the top number will flicker and eventually turn on in the first minute, but it won't grow from there. So I guess the battery works on output but the charging input isn't working (i'm a total layman with these things).

Anybody have any advice on possibly getting it to work? Or is this battery just a bad choice for this task? At this point, I have 2 lights left of charge, and i'm debating trying to get a plug in adapter and try using it as a modified whip vape (if it works ). Also, I will be interested in your pack once it is available; I bought a new solo and i love my old one for certain tasks but it obviously does not work right now. A badass battery is a great investment for both machines and your pack already looks great. Thanks for listening!

 

[CentiZen]

No worries man, you probably picked the best place to come to ask this question because I know this problem well.

You must have swapped the voltage direction while getting the JST lead in place, and accidentally connected the battery backwards at one point. I've done this a couple of times. Arizer intentionally wired their unit backwards to the generally accepted wiring standards for JST-RCY, probably so that it would thwart those of us who are trying to get new batteries going. It seems to trip some sort of polyfuse or protection circuitry that stays tripped for a really long time, even when the battery is disconnected.

I'm not going to lie, I did this about a week ago with out realizing it and did it to both of my Solo's. So I'm in the same boat as you are right now. I've done this before in the past, and the solo does recover - just not right away. I haven't been able to pin down the behaviour though so I can't even make an assumption as to how long it will stay tripped.

I really wish Arizer did not operate in the manner they currently are, as they make an exceptional product.

 

[oneinfinitecreator]

Meaning it may start working one day as long as I don't continue to mess with it all the time? That's better than nothing... i guess i'll plug it in one every few days and see if I notice any difference in behavior....

I'll keep my eye on this thread too for your pack once it comes. In the short amount of time that the new battery did work, I was very impressed with the heat up time and such. It was very quick, and the solo seemed to work great while it did.

Thanks again for the reply! I agree with your take on Arizer; I love their products but they are definitely a bit cagey with this stuff....

Also, with the JST connectors, I just matched up the black and red on the female connector soldered to the main board of the solo with the leads from my battery... Is the right way to connect the battery? Or is there a better way of doing it?

 

[CentiZen]

That is the right way to do it - but I figured that your wires were backward at one point because that is the only way I know of to trip this behavior.

I suppose another test you should do is to try to multimeter the batteries while they are charging to see if the protection circuit on them is inhibiting charging. I have had issues using protection circuits in the past, and since the solo has built in battery protection I don't use them anymore.

 

[oneinfinitecreator]

Ah, I see. The amazon page quotes "PCB protection prevents under-voltage at 2.5V and over-voltage at 4.25V" so I don't know if those variables tell you anything. I'd assume the protection circuit is inside the blue jacket that holds the battery... would I just open it up and take it out and tape the jacket back up with some electrical tape or something?

And yea I wouldn't be surprised if I got the wires switched or had a faulty connection the first time I tried it (first go I used non JST pins in the existing JST connector from the stock battery, which was less than optimal) so I could have created some problems there too... Thanks again for your advice tho. I really appreciate it

 

[smokum]

Any idea how long until I can get usable batt pack for my M102 ?

Sure miss my ole faithful over the M105 I'm using now, and really don't want to buy another whole unit at this point.

 

[CentiZen]

As soon as the mailman brings me my bloody batteries! I'm just itching to get these sent out.