Creating CBD Medicine

[Nuphile]

Something I have been wondering for awhile, but have not yet attempted:

CBD is known to be a pain reliever without causing any psychoactive side effects, as THC produces. Oftentimes, I want the pain relief, but it is not convenient for me to be high, as I am generally less productive.

From what I understand, THC vaporizes at a lower temperature than CBD. I have read different temperatures for the vaporization point, but to me, ChemSpider (a chemistry web resource) seems to be quite legit. The flash points (which is the point at which liquids begin to turn into a vapor stage) given for these two compounds is:

THC - ~149 C (~301 F)
CBD - ~206 C (~403 F)

It seems possible, with an accurate oven or possibly an accurate digital vape, to get the temperature just below the point where CBDs begin to vaporize, to ensure the THC is completely gone.

You could then take the THC ridden cannabis and create tincture, butter, or oil with it.
This should give pain relief to patients with no psychoactive effects.

What do you all think? Does this sound possible, or am I overlooking something?

 

[tdavie]

Quick response (just got into work so i have to be brief).

Yes, what you want to do will work. I, as most here do, save my ABV and use it in edibles. Enhanced CBD, lower THC. Very effective at pain relief and as a sleep aid.

Tom

 

[Brother Brigham]

I agree /\ /\, at least this is what I've read here at FC.
On a side note, for me, that is what is good about the log style vape; you get a constant temp as close to 400 f and the ABV is just what you're looking for in this case. However, you can't try and vape at the CBD temps...which is no issue for me because I don't want to play with combustion zones. I realize you can achieve log temps with your SSV, so there is no loss there for you. Further, I have been a serious cook for years and it is down right fun to use my ABV with all of these great FC recipes and play around with my own.
I still think you're gonna get a bit high though...IME.

 

[Nosferatu]

This is so interesting I would like to see you get to as close to no THC as possible and then make the ABV into oil and put in a pill capsule. That would be such great proof of how it can be medicine with no psychedelic effects. I mean Vicodin make you a little lucid feeling as well any medicine does.

 

[Gunky]

A big difficulty with edibles is getting the right dosage - so many variables. If you make fairly large batches of oil, within the batch you can get good ability to calibrate the dosage.

 

[tdavie]

I can answer a little bit more at length now (lunch hour, no one here).

I use an Extreme .v3 and SSV as my main at home vapes. I'll use the Extreme at 190>210C, and the SSV at 12>1 oclock and save the ABV. My most recent batch of ABV was heavily vaped and a dose of 0.75g-1.50g ABV makes a very good analgesic/soporific.

As said above, you might still get a bit high, but you will see the effects you are after by using ABV.

Tom

 

[Nuphile]

I would like to thank everyone for the informative replies. I love my SSV, but I don't know what temps I get with it.

Although I do save all my ABV for butter or glycerin tincture, I would like to do something a little different. If I had a vape that I know could produce consistent temperatures, than that would be fine. But, the SSV has so many variables, such as wand length, heater cover shape, user draw speed, and, of course, the temp knob.

So, I was more thinking along the lines of taking some trim, which I would not vape anyway, and using an oven with a baking thermometer to get it to just below the initial vape temp of CBD. It seems that if I reached this temp, the THC would vaporize very quickly, and would result in cannabis w/o any THC. And then, process the cannabis into butter, oil, or tincture.

I am going to try this ASAP, and post my results.

Any other thoughts?

 

[Nuphile]

A big difficulty with edibles is getting the right dosage - so many variables. If you make fairly large batches of oil, within the batch you can get good ability to calibrate the dosage.

I know what you mean. When I first tried the brownies I made, I ate too much, was uncomfortably high for hours, and ended up vomiting. Uggh!

So, now I make sure to properly self titrate, and just take a little at first.

I have not yet made oil, but I have made several batches of butter, using a ratio of 1/4 lb. trim to 1 lb. butter.
I started with 19 oz. of trim, ground and mixed together evenly. So, I have been enjoying several batches of brownies at exactly the same strength.

I think I will try using olive oil to make cannaoil. I am just debating on whether to decarboxylate the cannabis beforehand in the oven, and doing a cold infusion. Or, just doing a warm infusion.

It seems to me like the cold infusion will taste better because heat breaks olive oil down, but it may not be worth the effort.

What do you think?

 

[Nuphile]

This is so interesting I would like to see you get to as close to no THC as possible and then make the ABV into oil and put in a pill capsule. That would be such great proof of how it can be medicine with no psychedelic effects. I mean Vicodin make you a little lucid feeling as well any medicine does.

From the research I have done, it seems like CBD has incredible pain relief properties, but is not a psychoactive on its own; it requires a combining factor with THC to produce any mental effects.

I do hope this works!

 

[Nuphile]

I realize you can achieve log temps with your SSV, so there is no loss there for you.

What are log temps?

 

[Brother Brigham]

Oh, I meant log vape temps (390-400)

 

[Nuphile]

Interesting, I have never heard that term. But, ya the SSV can get pretty hot. 400 should be about the ideal temp to vaporize all THC and leave CBD. I just wish I could do this accurately with the SSV.

Not a big complaint though. The SSV is king.

 

[FLskwat]

You CAN achieve log vape temps with an SSV: just play with the knob, the distance and packing of your MJ and the speed of your draw...

 

[VapeHead.com]

The problem is that THC and CBD decarboxylate, melt and boil across a *range* of temps, not one specific temp.

What you're trying to achieve is possible - to a point. THC will be more fully decarboxylized and will melt/boil at lower temps than CBD, but you won't get all of it out before CBD starts to decarboxylize, melt and boil.

So in summary you can *influence* the effects by simulating a new cannabinoid ratio, by boiling off the most volatile aromatics and melting a fair bit of the THC, but it's not perfect and it will be hard to do it reliably unless you're using the exact same batch on a high accuracy device that controls for as many variables as possible (e.g. airflow) like the Volcano Digit. You'll want to use the same amount, ground to the same level, at the same temp, for the same duration etc. etc.

I've done it a fair bit myself - it definitly works. I was vaping at about 140-170 to decarboxylate and then smoking the leftovers. Very little head high, very good body stone and pain/spasm relief. But it's expensive, and if you're not willing to boil off into the atmosphere then you first have to vape all of the low temp stuff - effectively simulating a heady Sativa. For me that was quite hard to get through.

Easier to just find yourself a higher CBD strain - they're starting to make their way around the world so hopefully it won't be much longer for these strains to get into the hands of the people who need them. Until then try to find as heavy an Indica as you can, and avoid high THC strains.

 

[VWFringe]

I just want to offer my services in this most noble of pursuits, knowledge...if you need me to, and I will open this up to any member, vape ur shit down to 400 I can do that for u.

EDIT: I am as dumb as a stump - never thought my ABV edibles felt different because they have more cannabidiol than THC, such an obvious connection - I was only thinking it felt different because I was eating it and had to get the dosage right - LOL

 

[Nuphile]

Easier to just find yourself a higher CBD strain - they're starting to make their way around the world so hopefully it won't be much longer for these strains to get into the hands of the people who need them. Until then try to find as heavy an Indica as you can, and avoid high THC strains.

I know in California some breeders are messing around with Ruderalis hybrids that are very high in CBD and low in THC. However, I have not seen any make up to Oregon yet.

We do have some high CBD Indica strains here though, but they still have quite a bit of THC. And, the two combine to make me feel super couch-locked.

Apparently though, CBD by itself is a great pain reliever with minimal side effects. But, maybe it is just not as easy to isolate as I had thought.

I may just have to stick with my glycerin tincture. It has great pain relieving effects and less of the head high.

 

[VapeHead.com]

http://projectcbd.com/

 

[Nuphile]

Interesting link. I did know that CBD counters the effects of THC, but from what I understand, the effects of CBD wear off faster; which is sometimes referred to as 'creeper bud.'

Now, the link stated that CBD rich medicine was being defined as having >= 4% by weight. However, some strains are pushing 30% THC, and the THC content was not mentioned in the article. I wonder how low of a THC level the cannabis would have to have for the THC effects to be nonexistent or minimal.