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Convection vaporizer heating element temperature?

Discussion in 'ABV' started by Theron Awotwi, Nov 6, 2012.

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  1. Theron Awotwi

    Theron Awotwi Member

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    Hi,

    I own a Noble Vapor VP110, a standard convection vaporizer. There's no display for temperature, so I just turn the knob to adjust it.

    When the vape was new I never had to turn up the temperature to maximum. Today I feel it just doesn't get hot enough if not set to full power. I believe it used to get hot faster or obtained a higher final temperature. This obviously affects vaporization results. I still get vapor, but seemingly not as thick and not as fast as before.

    I decided to measure how hot the tip of the heating stem gets after 15 minutes on full power. The result was 158 C / 316 F. Does this sound low to you?

    I would think that this is not the same as the actual vaporizing temperature, because it's measured from the surface of the element but not from the air that travels through the vaporized material. Could the air flowing through the material be hotter than the element?

    I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject, and even more interesting would be some comparable results.
     
  2. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    yes, too low. should be up around 380°F

    not possible ... the moving air will cool the heater and can't be hotter than the heater in any event.
     
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  3. max

    max Bingo Coordinator Staff Member

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    If you can get your temp high enough to turn your remains a very dark brown to black color, then you're getting enough heat. "not as thick and not as fast" is not as important in determining whether your unit is doing the job or not, but if your element temp is 316 F at maximum setting, you're not gonna get dark ABV, and it's time to replace your vape.
     
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  4. Theron Awotwi

    Theron Awotwi Member

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    I retested and now the max peak temp was 338 F but most of the time it stayed at 327 F. Even if it's lower than recommended, eventually the remains do turn dark and smallest bits even black and powdery. It's in the middle of a session when I feel that the vapor is not very thick and the performance could be better.
     
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  5. max

    max Bingo Coordinator Staff Member

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    What you're saying makes sense if you're turning the temp up as you go. You have to realize that cannabis has hundreds of compounds, and the ones that produce an effect on you release at different temps.

    The best way to vape, in order to get the full range of effects and taste, is to start low to medium and move the temp up when your vapor output trails off. After a few hits at mid temp, your vapor is going to decrease because you've got it fully vaped at that temp. When you move the temp up into high temp range, your vapor will increase and it'll also be more harsh. At that point most of the THC is gone and you're getting high temp cannabinoids.

    Edit- Wish I'd checked the OP's profile. He hasn't been on the forum in almost two weeks. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Theron Awotwi

    Theron Awotwi Member

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    No, I've been here, I just don't log in every time I browse the forum. But thanks for more info. I think that with this temp it doesn't vaporize all cannabinoids. It's hot enough to vaporize THC but I must miss some cannabinoids that require higher temps. And it's boring to wait 15 minutes before it's ready, so I 'm going to replace this vaporizer soon.
     
  7. Jor-el

    Jor-el New Member

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    It's likely that the heating element/exchanger must be hotter than than the desired air temperature, since the heat isn"t transferred with 100% efficiency, and the stream may well cool as it goes.

    The only exception of which I can think would be if the core of the heater or exchanger is noticeably hotter than the place at which you're measuring the temperature, for example in a cold room or near a fan blasting away; in that case air drawn through the core might be hotter than the surface.

    This is all a vote in favour of the famous Steinel heat guns, since (if they're working right) the temperature set is that of the air downstream from the core---and there is a negative feedback loop that should keep that temperature constant even when the air moves faster when taking a draw.
     
  8. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    depends on the vaporizer air path design. For example, my vape has a 1.5" air path past a hot glass surface, and the air transfers that temperature to the herb, as measured by a probe in the middle of the herb. my feedback temp control measures the hottest part of the heater coil, which matches the herb temp after a 5 second toke.

    on the other hand the EVO gets quite hot - someone said 1000°F - or whatever temp makes borosilicate glow red.
     
  9. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

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    Well, you've got two data points that don't agree. 327F (or even 338) is not going to turn ABV black.

    I suggest you know it's hotter than that from the results of your ABV, you're temperature measurement is off. Dollars to doughnuts you're using an IR Pyrometer, right? One of the common 'remote temperature' gadgets? There's a critical factor, "Emissivity" in play here, not all surfaces emit IR at the same level at the same temperature. Your meter probably comes with 'e95' calibration, some of which can be changed, as a compromise.

    We've been through this a few times now. Check out this chart:
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/emissivity-coefficients-d_447.html

    Notice that 'most' organic, painted, oxidized or otherwise dark stuff is pretty close to .95 (the reason it's the default) but very importantly, 'bare' metals are not. They can, and do vary a LOT. This has a huge effect, causing the meter to read low, sometimes very much so. Here's a brief discussion:
    http://www.optotherm.com/emiss-effects.htm

    This is one of those cases where casual use of instruments can lead you astray.

    Accurate measures of temperature (generally with Thermocouple probes) is what Hippie Dickie is referring to. It's also what I've used in exploring various vapes. It will give temperatures accurate to a degree or two in the ranges we want, although it to needs some understanding to use correctly (the metal leads will 'wick away heat'.

    OF
     
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