Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A

[macbill]

I purchased some concentrate here in WA State for it's high THC value and low cost (25/gr) and noticed that it is has been decarbed (THC-A=0%. THC=70.1%). Is that a good thing? Seems like if you are going to vape it, it's an unnecessary step.

 

[looney2nz]

I purchased some concentrate here in WA State for it's high THC value and low cost (25/gr) and noticed that it is has been decarbed (THC-A=0%. THC=70.1%). Is that a good thing? Seems like if you are going to vape it, it's an unnecessary step.

delta-9 THCa - 248F
delta-9 THC - 311F

you can get undecarb'd concentrate (most often CO2 process), which also includes terpene profiles so you can play with fingerprinting specific strains.

delta-9 THCa has a distinct biological/physiological profile compared to delta-9 THC.

 

[OldOyler]

It has already evaporated. Do I add more alcohol or is this powder wasted?

Ha, sorry to bring your post up again FlyingLow, but since I have had the same problem I was wondering how things turned out?

Peace!

 

[throwawaytre3s]

I went to the LHS to buy an e-nail coil and he said that he didn't have any, but when I looked, I need to find one made for quartz bangers. What sort of e-nail coil should I be looking for?

 

[063_XOBX]

I went to the LHS to buy an e-nail coil and he said that he didn't have any, but when I looked, I need to find one made for quartz bangers. What sort of e-nail coil should I be looking for?

You should buy a coil and then purchase a quartz enail to fit the coil.

 

[Vape Donkey 650]

delta-9 THCa - 248F
delta-9 THC - 311F

you can get undecarb'd concentrate (most often CO2 process), which also includes terpene profiles so you can play with fingerprinting specific strains.

delta-9 THCa has a distinct biological/physiological profile compared to delta-9 THC.

That's funny that I was just pondering this topic and came here looking to post about THC and THCa and it's being discussed right now.

Alot of cheap bho is buy is not labeled at all, and most of the time if it is, it only shows results for "THC" (presumable THC not THCa?) and maybe CBD.

Since I just picked up a nice batch of pop naturals co2 oils after not having any of their products for a long time, I notice their lab results are much more detailed now: shows me terpene %'s of 5 specific terps, as well as THCa, THC, CBD, CBDa (and also CBN THCV CBG and CBC)

So this tube of durban poison has 21% thc and 29% thca. If I thought it only had 21% "total" thc content, that would be pretty weak for a concentrate, but does the thca also count towards the total thc content?

The way I understand it, regarding vaping thc and / or thca, it didn't matter if it is "decarbed" or not, because the heating and vaping process will do that for you. So when I am vaping THCa at well over 300F, is it effectively becoming THC, or is it really vaping in a different way with its own distinct properties as you implied?

 

[looney2nz]

That's funny that I was just pondering this topic and came here looking to post about THC and THCa and it's being discussed right now.

Alot of cheap bho is buy is not labeled at all, and most of the time if it is, it only shows results for "THC" (presumable THC not THCa?) and maybe CBD.

Since I just picked up a nice batch of pop naturals co2 oils after not having any of their products for a long time, I notice their lab results are much more detailed now: shows me terpene %'s of 5 specific terps, as well as THCa, THC, CBD, CBDa (and also CBN THCV CBG and CBC)

So this tube of durban poison has 21% thc and 29% thca. If I thought it only had 21% "total" thc content, that would be pretty weak for a concentrate, but does the thca also count towards the total thc content?

The way I understand it, regarding vaping thc and / or thca, it didn't matter if it is "decarbed" or not, because the heating and vaping process will do that for you. So when I am vaping THCa at well over 300F, is it effectively becoming THC, or is it really vaping in a different way with its own distinct properties as you implied?

I love the PopNaturals product, and their labs are the BEST.

as for the THCa/THC question when it comes to vaping/combustion... I honestly don't have a definitive answer for you (at least not yet). I recall reading something about how you can see THCa in reclaim, so it is clearly persisting at some level. If they decarb'd the product you'd have much more potent combination of the THC and converted THCa, but as we're discovering with various compounds in the plant, these discrete compounds likely have a profile that we don't yet fully understand (same with CBC and CBG, which I look forward to the research on!). I just saw some research today showing THCv and CBD being used on a form of Type2 Diabetes (one of the reasons I was interested in something that could pull off THCv temps, I know a few folks who could benefit from it).

I'd pick a couple different PopNaturals CO2 strains, with clear differences in the THC and THCa levels and see if you can qualify the difference you experience. I'm looking forward to trying their Grape Ape or Purple Urkle, as well as some other strains (Blue Dream).

 

[OldOyler]

Peace all!

Hoping for irritated noob assistance...

I have some suck ejmix/oil that just won't "do it" in my Kanger tank. As in have to use my f'ing walker even to get around the house the last few days waiting on my guy.

It's thin, but could I vape it in my wax globe with dual quartz coils? I use it on top of my 1600mah VV Kanger battery. I have one that's a water globe mini-bubbler for the pen that might smooth it out some as well.

And everyone? I am sooooo cool with raucous laughter.



Peace and good things!

 

[psychonaut]

@OldOyler Sorry I cannot answer on it's wicking capabilities with the quartz coils. Have you tried adding a little more concentrate to your mix to boost the strength? Also, I am not sure what your kanger wicks are capable of, but I know in my aerotank 2 I am able to get 15 watts before a burning taste happens with most coils. If you have a variable voltage/wattage device, might try and boost the watts for a stronger dose.

 

[OldOyler]

@OldOyler Sorry I cannot answer on it's wicking capabilities with the quartz coils. Have you tried adding a little more concentrate to your mix to boost the strength? Also, I am not sure what your kanger wicks are capable of, but I know in my aerotank 2 I am able to get 15 watts before a burning taste happens with most coils. If you have a variable voltage/wattage device, might try and boost the watts for a stronger dose.

Thanks psychonaut, that was all great advice, and I actually didn't try to crank up the volts on my Kanger battery with the tank on - it has settings from 3.2 to 4.4 but I rarely go above 3.6 - I will try increasing the volts.

And every scrap I had already went into it (random finished oils, etc.), so can't stiffen it but it seems extremely potent, just extremely short acting, etc. And sedating (most of the oil had already been decarbed once). Thought maybe larger puffs would help.

If I find something cool and / or unusual, I'll post back with it.

Until then, I make due and wait.

Peace all!

 

[OldOyler]

Peace all!

Okay, any suggestions for qwet purge tek, I assume a vac of some sort, to "auto-magically" turn my qwet "mash" into shatter? Or something similar, a wax I can vape in my Yocan Torch (500F-ish).

I have rock-solid NuWave induction cookware, nice Pyrex pie plates, even slick sheet. I use good old Everclear 189. Single 5-minute wash.

I can get earrll returns (using heat that is at or near full decarb temps) of 2g per ounce of trim or 3+ grams from ounce of flower. The resulting absolut is very nice, but crap...

I can NOT for the life of me get a run to purge completely. It'll look gorgeous on the pie plate, but it's not. 110 - 120F, even tried blasting the heat up to 175 here and there at different points of the purge.

After 3 HUGE fails I went to look at making bubble. But it's out of my league and comfort zone right now. So...

I would love a piece of tek that I could LINE with slick sheet, turn it on for however long, and DING! There's shatter. Small runs, an ounce of starting material at a time usually, never more than two. And I would love to keep it at $150 or under but that's probably fantasy. So PLEASE don't fall into my fantasy world, I am willing to hear "what's what".

I won't switch to rosin tek until well into next year, and I really need an affordable solution like...within a few weeks if possible.

So...anybody have time and want to school a noob on qwet purge tek?

Thanks in advance, and good things to everyone.

 

[herbivore21]

Peace all!

Okay, any suggestions for qwet purge tek, I assume a vac of some sort, to "auto-magically" turn my qwet "mash" into shatter? Or something similar, a wax I can vape in my Yocan Torch (500F-ish).

I have rock-solid NuWave induction cookware, nice Pyrex pie plates, even slick sheet. I use good old Everclear 189. Single 5-minute wash.

I can get earrll returns (using heat that is at or near full decarb temps) of 2g per ounce of trim or 3+ grams from ounce of flower. The resulting absolut is very nice, but crap...

I can NOT for the life of me get a run to purge completely. It'll look gorgeous on the pie plate, but it's not. 110 - 120F, even tried blasting the heat up to 175 here and there at different points of the purge.

After 3 HUGE fails I went to look at making bubble. But it's out of my league and comfort zone right now. So...

I would love a piece of tek that I could LINE with slick sheet, turn it on for however long, and DING! There's shatter. Small runs, an ounce of starting material at a time usually, never more than two. And I would love to keep it at $150 or under but that's probably fantasy. So PLEASE don't fall into my fantasy world, I am willing to hear "what's what".

I won't switch to rosin tek until well into next year, and I really need an affordable solution like...within a few weeks if possible.

So...anybody have time and want to school a noob on qwet purge tek?

Thanks in advance, and good things to everyone.

Greetings brother, thought I'd start you out by suggesting that you try a higher temp for the final stage of the purge. 120f is considerably lower than the boiling point of ethanol (~173f). At 120f, if you want all of that final residual ethanol to escape during the last step of the purge, this is possible but it will take a very long time (more than one waking day is possible depending on your local conditions etc.). 120f is of course a good for getting rid of the bulk of the ethanol in the first step of a heat only purge where you have mostly ethanol in your solution. You might consider jacking your temp up to the 173f mark or as close as practical once you have gotten rid of the bulk of the ethanol and see if this leaves you able to finish the purge in a reasonable timeframe

 

[OldOyler]

You might consider jacking your temp up to the 173f mark or as close as practical once you have gotten rid of the bulk of the ethanol and see if this leaves you able to finish the purge in a reasonable timeframe

Peace everyone!

Ah herbivore21 my friend, I do believe I am finally listening.

I had tried 175F at various points, but not with any specific understanding of when or how long. I had even tried air-drying as a "final purge" for 4 or 5 days, but nope. Must get a little bit trapped anyway.

So, yes I can hit that temp, so "where" in particular at the very end should I start that (like when it looks like it "should" be purged but I know it probably isn't), or does it need to be a little before that, etc. and of course most importantly - for how long-ish? I don't have a problem babysitting qwet runs and giving a bunch of attention at the end, so time isn't a problem. (Although my NuWave has like a 2-hour auto shut off). I just don't want to ruin it by going too long, and 5 minutes or 30 are doable, just want to "do" the right one.

You may have just saved me enough $ by a simple process change to get my D-Nail a bit earlier than I thought...or maybe the Illuminati first...

I hope the karma train visits you for all the times you've given me a huge hand bud. I'll follow your instructions when you hit me with them, and I'll make sure to post results.

Peace!

 

[herbivore21]

Peace everyone!

Ah herbivore21 my friend, I do believe I am finally listening.

I had tried 175F at various points, but not with any specific understanding of when or how long. I had even tried air-drying as a "final purge" for 4 or 5 days, but nope. Must get a little bit trapped anyway.

So, yes I can hit that temp, so "where" in particular at the very end should I start that (like when it looks like it "should" be purged but I know it probably isn't), or does it need to be a little before that, etc. and of course most importantly - for how long-ish? I don't have a problem babysitting qwet runs and giving a bunch of attention at the end, so time isn't a problem. (Although my NuWave has like a 2-hour auto shut off). I just don't want to ruin it by going too long, and 5 minutes or 30 are doable, just want to "do" the right one.

You may have just saved me enough $ by a simple process change to get my D-Nail a bit earlier than I thought...or maybe the Illuminati first...

I hope the karma train visits you for all the times you've given me a huge hand bud. I'll follow your instructions when you hit me with them, and I'll make sure to post results.

Peace!

You definitely wanna do what I said above at the final stage where it is looking like it could be already purged but actually isn't (good guess!).

The reason you would have found that the air dry didn't work is that I find you need the extract with residual solvent to be in a liquid phase (that is to say you need it melted into more of a liquid that is not very viscous) in order to allow any trapped solvent to escape. This means that at least some heat is required! You'll notice when you have a solution that is mostly ethanol and it is very much a liquid that the ethanol boils off into the air at room temp given enough time. This changes at the final stage where what you have is mostly resin and not much ethanol. This is where the heat part is really important. Even in a vacuum, the melting point is not adjusted in the same way as the boiling point is and so a low heat is still used even by BHO enthusiasts who are working with a solvent (butane) with a boiling point just below freezing!!!

The amount of time that the purge will take is in part a function of how much solvent you are getting rid of and how much resin you have as well as how broad of a purge vessel and heating surface. The key is not to think about it in terms of time, but rather, check your material during the final stages of the purge at regular intervals to see that it has the properties of a properly purged concentrate. Consistency tests should be first (I've told you about that one I think: If it's slick - you took it out too quick!), checking to see if the dab sizzles is another good test after that.

Hope this helps to clarify things a bit Here's to getting your hands on some new toys soon! Many thanks for the kind words, happy to help!

 

[OldOyler]

The amount of time that the purge will take is in part a function of how much solvent you are getting rid of and how much resin you have as well as how broad of a purge vessel and heating surface.

Peace!

I will be purging around 300ML of qwet mash in a standard (?) pyrex pie plate, I want to say 11"-ish, sitting in a veg oil bath.

Yes, the consistency check has actually been oddly easy - my first run (the only successful one) I actually thought EVERYTHING had evaporated because it looked and felt like glass when I simply poked it with my finger, until I got some better light on it.

The following three (progressively disastrous runs) were easy to tell looking back - it was just a bit gooey to the touch, like a co2 wax consistency, hence one of the reasons I thought it was done ("I want it to be okay, so I guess it just got a less "hard" concentrate as a result).

Will be doing a run next week at some point, relieved to know I may have a solution. (Last ones were to cook it into decarb and put it in caps, not a big medible-type fan).

I'll keep you posted.

Peace and good things!

 

[StickyShisha2]

@OldOyler I guess i'll give you my qwet purge tech.
you will need:
2 pieces of 2 inch duct hose, longer than a foot
2 rubber bands
1 twist tie or bag clip
1 oven roaster turkey bag
1 pyrex dish to scrape from
1 electric hair drier
1 electric heating pad or seedling warming pad

cut the corners of the bag to insert the hoses, one in each. Affix with rubber bands.
one will be for hair drier hot air in, the other goes out the window.
lay the bag down on the heating pad.
put the dish needing to be purged in the bag. close bag.

i didn't like the results of purging sheets and went back to scraping glass.

a customized ceramic heating hairdrier, to run at a lower temp, upped my game a bit too.

 

[OldOyler]

Peace all!

I have some co2 wax that clearly has a subtle antiseptic smell, possibly neem oil.

I found this https://www.420magazine.com/forums/problems-pests-and-disease-control/114333-neem-oil-advise.html

But I trust FC because I actually know the opinions are great from actually following them, so I was hoping for opinions and experience.

So, safe to vape in my Yocan Torch (500F'ish)?

Thanks in advance, and good things to everyone!

 

[Tranquility]

Peace all!

I have some co2 wax that clearly has a subtle antiseptic smell, possibly neem oil.

I found this https://www.420magazine.com/forums/problems-pests-and-disease-control/114333-neem-oil-advise.html

But I trust FC because I actually know the opinions are great from actually following them, so I was hoping for opinions and experience.

So, safe to vape in my Yocan Torch (500F'ish)?

Thanks in advance, and good things to everyone!

I don't know enough about such things to advise, but, if you use Azadirachtin for your search rather than Neem Oil, you might get some better info. There are certainly a lot of chemical data out there that will cover many of the issues.

(Not that I think there will be a study on intentional vaporization or combustion and inhalation of the pesticide.)

 

[herbivore21]

I don't know enough about such things to advise, but, if you use Azadirachtin for your search rather than Neem Oil, you might get some better info. There are certainly a lot of chemical data out there that will cover many of the issues.

(Not that I think there will be a study on intentional vaporization or combustion and inhalation of the pesticide.)

My friend above is pretty spot on here. There isn't much information I know of on the boiling and inhalation (remember, oils don't typically combust at the temps we use for dabbing) of neem oil but I know that a lot of my buddies doing advanced solventless processing and especially isolation fucking HATE growers who use neem oil. They have to spend a whole lot of time getting the stuff out of their final product and those friends of mine have typically abandoned such sources of raw material as a result.

Remember that the composition of Neem oil is actually a very small part Azadirachtin (in the hundreds to thousands of PPM variously from different cultivars in different conditions). There are many other components that should be considered - whilst also remembering that generally we don't want to boil and inhale essential oils that do not have the medical/psychoactive effects we require.

 

[OldOyler]

Azadirachtin

Thanks OldNewbie!

I need @herbivore21 or somebody with science-head please?

I read the entries, good stuff and over my head, so hoping for the gurus.

Good on you for that grab ON, thanks!

I am making some of my own shatter tomorrow, so I can wait on any opinions. Plus it's only a gram of co2 wax, but that's 2-3 days for me, plus the grey market isn't known for refunds...



Peace everyone!

 

[herbivore21]

Thanks OldNewbie!

I need @herbivore21 or somebody with science-head please?

I read the entries, good stuff and over my head, so hoping for the gurus.

Good on you for that grab ON, thanks!

I am making some of my own shatter tomorrow, so I can wait on any opinions. Plus it's only a gram of co2 wax, but that's 2-3 days for me, plus the grey market isn't known for refunds...



Peace everyone!

What are the chances of my replying just before you post this lol?! What a coincidence!

In addition to what I said above, I don't think you need to worry too much on this one-off occasion if it is neem oil. If your errl was genuinely extracted with CO2 and no other solvents, then there is a reasonably good chance that the smell/flavor is from the use of neem oil during flower. You should ask the grey market provider if you get a chance, usually they'll be honest about neem oil use if they know about it and are connected to the grower - most don't view it as a problem because it is 'organic' (so are many poisons though, this is the naturalistic fallacy writ large).

Neem oil is GRAS for food products, but I am not aware of literature on inhalation of boiled neem oil and GRAS for food is absolutely not the same as being safe to boil and inhale.

Still, I do not believe in a one-off case like this that you have much to worry about. If bad taste is all you're experiencing, that sounds like how learned folks I know have described neem oil in cannabis resin. I do suggest making your own meds from known flowers wherever possible though - if you can't get properly lab tested retail concentrates - this is the path to relative peace of mind.

 

[OldOyler]

I don't think you need to worry too much on this one-off occasion if it is neem oil. If your errl was genuinely extracted with CO2 and no other solvents, then there is a reasonably good chance that the smell/flavor is from the use of neem oil during flower. You should ask the grey market provider if you get a chance, usually they'll be honest about neem oil use if they know about it and are connected to the grower

Peace!

Yup, you were spot on.

My guy's guy knows it gets used sometimes and it doesn't phase him, and get this...

The guy actually rubs his quartz nail with neem oil EVERY time he sits for a vape session. I had heard it before, but assumed my guy was just not understanding what he was seeing - I told him he was watching the guy wash his gear, but he asked specifically. The guy believes neem oil to be the bomb.

Anyway, MY guy vaped some of it when he went to pick everything up and said he loved it (the same grape and neem scented co2 wax I mean), and that was on a nail rubbed with the neem as well.

So, I am going to vape tonight, will fire results over onto Whats in your vape thread.

I do suggest making your own meds from known flowers wherever possible though

Yup, shatter cooking now will post that later today on dab stash thread, barring any epic failures.

Thanks as usual bud, and peace!

 

[OldOyler]

I do suggest making your own meds from known flowers wherever possible though - if you can't get properly lab tested retail concentrates - this is the path to relative peace of mind.

Peace!

And...yuppers. Did 175F at the end there for about 25 minutes, will pull that back by ten minutes next time.

Currently WAY too vaked on the Green Crush shatter I made with your guidance, bud. (Wouldn't mind your opinion on how there were some husky sections, I think that's from that second emergency two minute wash I had to do? Once scraped it's all fine consistency wise)

Scraped .24g (not all pictured here) scraped obviously) which was less than a quarter of the plate by a lot but my hands said that's it, also posted some other pics over in Share that Dab stash thread.

Peace to everyone!

 

[FlyingLow]

That feeling when you've been putting off investing in an enail, it's late night, and you just run out of butane for your torch

 

[witka]

Peace all!

I have some co2 wax that clearly has a subtle antiseptic smell, possibly neem oil.

I found this https://www.420magazine.com/forums/problems-pests-and-disease-control/114333-neem-oil-advise.html

But I trust FC because I actually know the opinions are great from actually following them, so I was hoping for opinions and experience.

So, safe to vape in my Yocan Torch (500F'ish)?

Thanks in advance, and good things to everyone!

if it is neem oil i'd be leary of vaping it, it's deemed 'safe' ish but not really..i guess it would depend on the quantity,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3841499/