Child birth is gross and I think very ugly

[Tranquility]

-oldnewb- holocaust Surivivors have spoken on the animal industry resembling the exact same as the Jewish holocaust. Actual survivors..
That went through that hell. Explaninning that we are still putting billioka of lives through the same torture every year. Watch earthlings if you want to see reality

I reject the term being used for animal agriculture and find a person who tries to be the evil one.

Humans are not just animals. Humans are different.

I understand you may think differently. In fact, I was astonished at the number of vegans who have such thoughts when I started looking around the internet because of this thread.

It makes me want to fight the concept of veganism as it seems to lead to evil.

Not the concept behind it, but the implications from it.

 

[Maninthemachine]

I reject the term being used for animal agriculture and find a person who tries to be the evil one.

Humans are not just animals. Humans are different.

I understand you may think differently. In fact, I was astonished at the number of vegans who have such thoughts when I started looking around the internet because of this thread.

It makes me want to fight the concept of veganism as it seems to lead to evil.

Not the concept behind it, but the implications from it.

You reject the term ? This isnt opinion my friend..have you been been to a slaughterhouse? I’m not talking local organic “humanely raise “ which is the biggest bullshit ever. It’s impossible to “humanely “ take someone’s life.I’m taking big corporations ,these warehouses cram as many animals as they can (chickens are the worst in these terms. Every male chick is worthless to the industry so they are immediately ground up or thrown in a bag where the babies on top struggle to breath while the one son bottom are dying from lack of air .the mother pig is forced to lay down unable to move except for a inch or so in each direction. A cage has her. Pinned down as her children are born. Some lay dead right beside her. She’s unable to comfort or even touch her dying children.
That last statement you made ...wheww. You are so brainwashed there’s really no other way to put it. You scratch around the internet picking at certain vegan views without actually doing research for real facts and info. I’ve been doing this for several years (not saying I’m any sort of expert in any way ) and it’s not difficult to find on the internet and works as a whole. Like you don’t even know what you’re talking about do you ? Have you tried going vegan ? I was eating dead animal flesh for most of my life. I know both routes. I feel SO AMAZING eating plants. Have been for years. Of course there will be people in any movement that present a negative light. Looks for those that have been doing it for years. So many raw vegans and vegans in general out there 20+ years ! The people of earth are waking up and seeing the destruction caused by our actions.

 

[TiSteamo]

@OldNewbie I don't think the "number" of the world population is as relevant as their "behavior" and the attitude of the industry to produce in a sustainable manner.
I mean, they make oil wars but we keep driving cars, farting their gas in the atmosphere.

Do we want to understand that we can decide at any time? And that our destiny is only in our hands?

 

[TiSteamo]

I reject the term being used for animal agriculture and find a person who tries to be the evil one.

Humans are not just animals. Humans are different.

I understand you may think differently. In fact, I was astonished at the number of vegans who have such thoughts when I started looking around the internet because of this thread.

It makes me want to fight the concept of veganism as it seems to lead to evil.

Not the concept behind it, but the implications from it.

This is because you still have an "animal" view of life. It is part of the ancestral preservation instinct that sees animals as threats or resources and places man on a higher level.

I say that this higher level only means that we have a greater responsibility.

But I often see men claiming their rights but trampling on those of others, "mors tua vita mea", worse than a jungle predator.
But the predator is precisely an animal and follows the instinct, the laws of its condition.
Humans instead have free will and can choose and self-determine.

 

[His_Highness]

-oldnewb- holocaust Surivivors have spoken on the animal industry resembling the exact same as the Jewish holocaust. Actual survivors..
That went through that hell. Explaninning that we are still putting billioka of lives through the same torture every year. Watch earthlings if you want to see reality

Can you provide a reference/link to holocaust survivors stating "resembling the exact same...."? There's a "context" issue here when using the term "exact same" for me that I believe would be clarified by reading or hearing the actual statements. None of my relatives would compare making steak available to killing 6 million HUMANS. IMO there is a huge difference in killing 6 million HUMANS who would have contributed to society versus 6 million cows who might have contributed to high cholesterol. I don't disagree that there similarities but that statement cheapens the value of a human life versus an animal.

 

[arb]

Can you provide a reference/link to holocaust survivors stating "resembling the exact same...."? There's a "context" issue here when using the term "exact same" for me that I believe would be clarified by reading or hearing the actual statements. None of my relatives would compare making steak available to killing 6 million HUMANS. IMO there is a huge difference in killing 6 million HUMANS who would have contributed to society versus 6 million cows who might have contributed to high cholesterol. I don't disagree that there similarities but that statement cheapens the value of a human life versus an animal.

You are talking to children with no perspective or life experience or under 85 iq points.
Anyone who compares human life to animal life is so skewed morally there is no talking to them.
As our society grows more removed from how life actually works this type of intellectual shit thinking will only grow.
I would like to see them get hungry actual hunger.........the level of entitlement coming from those who have never produced anything except excrement is mind boggling.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

holocaust Surivivors have spoken on the animal industry resembling the exact same as the Jewish holocaust.

Knew some would be deeply offended by this. Truly sorry, @OldNewbie and @His_Highness.

As a young activist, participated in PETA's "Holocaust on Your Plate" campaign. We set up large format images of each "activity" side-by-side to make the comparison unavoidable at a predominantly Jewish college campus. Reasoned that it was justified because the statements we quoted were by people including Isaac Bashevis Singer and Charles Patterson. Who would know better? Surely, these Jewish college students would get it.

One of us attempted to hand a flyer to a passer-by. He was, not figuratively, spat upon by one of his classmates. Gave this vegan pause even then, followed by life-long regret.

Even PETA issued a rare, perhaps unique, apology over this, which did nothing to bring Jews, many of whom are especially sympathetic to veganism, back into the fold. We'd overlooked that members of an oppressed group are as capable of offending each other as are their oppressors. A terrible mistake. The grown-ups in the room should have known better.

 

[Maninthemachine]

Can you provide a reference/link to holocaust survivors stating "resembling the exact same...."? There's a "context" issue here when using the term "exact same" for me that I believe would be clarified by reading or hearing the actual statements. None of my relatives would compare making steak available to killing 6 million HUMANS. IMO there is a huge difference in killing 6 million HUMANS who would have contributed to society versus 6 million cows who might have contributed to high cholesterol. I don't disagree that there similarities but that statement cheapens the value of a human life versus an animal.

Will send link when. I look through my records
That in itself is the problem. There is no difference between a human life and animal. They both want to live ,Both want to be happy .both feel pain ,have emotions/feelings,and are in many cases very intelligent. Pigs for example are recognized as being more intelligent compared to dogs. We have actually turn a living breathing person into a commodity,a intangible object. We have turned animals into shoes,food and clothes.
When you have time watch this video. There is a shorter version but this is the full

 

[Maninthemachine]

You are talking to children with no perspective or life experience or under 85 iq points.
Anyone who compares human life to animal life is so skewed morally there is no talking to them.
As our society grows more removed from how life actually works this type of intellectual shit thinking will only grow.
I would like to see them get hungry actual hunger.........the level of entitlement coming from those who have never produced anything except excrement is mind boggling.

How is someone skewed in this thinking ? Thinking that another life is just as important as theirs. The very thought process you are subscribing to denotes violence and death. The future is vegan whether you agree with it or not. And aging these are people who know nothing about veganism. Have you ever tried it ?

 

[macbill]

I think it's great we live in a country that lets you live as you wish. There is room for us all. You may have to pry that BLT from my cold, dead hands, but by then, I won't care.

 

[arb]

Yes my wife is a vegetarian I myself am allergic to Oats.
You are projecting your internal bullshit into the rest of us and You will do it at gun point given half a chance.........in the name of morality.

 

[Maninthemachine]

Yes my wife is a vegetarian I myself am allergic to Oats.
You are projecting your internal bullshit into the rest of us and You will do it at gun point given half a chance.........in the name of morality.

Vegetarian is no where close to vegan. The dairy industry is founded on rape and taking mothers kids away. How do we still think that casein filled animal lactations that is meant to turn a baby calf into a 1000 pound is meant for humans ? What milk doe we need ? Human milk of course. We aren’t babies are you ? Babies drink milk not adults. Milk causes osteoporosis :0 the lies run so deep many have trouble getting over them.
It is easier to fool someone then to convince them they have been fooled

Hahah gun point ??never..that’s your mindset projecting onto me...not working my friend. There are fights to be fought but not against ourselves. Unity is key !

 

[His_Highness]

That in itself is the problem. There is no difference between a human life and animal.

Again...similarities exist but NO DIFFERENCE!?!?!

 

[Maninthemachine]

Again...similarities exist but NO DIFFERENCE!?!?!

Talking about a life my friend...theirs is just as important as mine or yours

 

[TiSteamo]

I don't disagree that there similarities but that statement cheapens the value of a human life versus an animal.

It is not this statement that reduces the value of a human life, but often it is the human being himself who reduces the value of his existence, behaving like (and worse) an animal.

We have to look at animals as human beings trapped (for various reasons) in an animal body. They are not beings for our use and consumption.
We still reason like the prehistoric man who must survive by fighting and killing other animals to eat.

It seems that you do not read what I wrote. If they were bullshit, let's discuss them!

Cuddling the little dog and the kitten and slaughtering the other animals is an obtuse and hypocritical attitude.
There are no animals worth living and other animals worthy of dying.
Everyone has the right to live and they want to be happy. Just like us.

Do you have children? If so how can you say you value any animal more than or even as much as your own child? If not, you have much to learn and experience about the value of a human life.

This attitude is unfair and does not bring more credibility to your thesis.
It is clear that a child is always the most beloved person.
But I would like not to have to choose between the life of one and that of another.
Indeed, precisely because I care about my son I do not give him meat, so we save two beings in one shot. ​

 

[nosmoking]

Talking about a life my friend...theirs is just as important as mine or yours

Do you have children? If so how can you say you value any animal more than or even as much as your own child? If not, you have much to learn and experience about the value of a human life.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Humans are not just animals. Humans are different.

Right, back to provocation. Argue that the above, like the prohibition on abortion, is fundamentally a religious belief. (Humans have "souls", perhaps from the moment of conception, animals don't.)

When the evidence of our senses conflict with our beliefs, we're free to choose either, but we shouldn't be too surprised when some go with their senses, or the empiricism that's built upon them. Certainly humans are different, but are those differences of kind or of degree? And are they relevant to being harmed?

And just for balance...

We have to look at animals as human beings trapped (for various reasons) in an animal body. They are not beings for our use and consumption.
We still reason like the prehistoric man who must survive by fighting and killing other animals to eat.

Who is trapped in whom? Imagining ourselves as animals trapped in human bodies better explains our behavior.

 

[His_Highness]

This will definitely be my last post on this thread. I'm invoking the serenity prayer clause on this one. Sometimes even "lets agree to disagree" is wasted as in this case.

What I'm getting here is that if a human and a cow were about to get hit by a car and you could only save one and the cow was closer....YOU'D SAVE THE COW!?!?!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!

Animals and humans are not the same. Similar yes, but the value of a human life is not the same as an animals!

If this were April Fool's day it would make sense to me that you're pulling my leg or...you're a troll.

Have fun folks...I'm out.

 

[Maninthemachine]

Do you have children? If so how can you say you value any animal more than or even as much as your own child? If not, you have much to learn and experience about the value of a human life.

Children aren’t paying to have this done WE are. And we are teaching them to do the same. You have much to unlearn about the devaluing of someone else’s life imagine if someone suddenly came into your home and put a one of those guns (forget what they are called atm ) to our child’s head pulled the trigger and a metal rod slammed into their head ,you can’t do anything Cecile’s you are in a cage unable to protect your very own. Pigs are one animal that lives that hell everyday

 

[macbill]

Do not animals eat other animals? There is something suspiciously natural about that.

 

[Maninthemachine]

Do not animals eat other animals? There is something suspiciously natural about that.

Very good point ! Let’s look at that ...a lion eats other animals no ? A lion has carnivore teeth. We do not. Their teeth moved up and down to shred and break down flesh. Ours move side to side to break down fruit and veg.
Lions have claws teeth and overall body shape that allows them to hunt down an anima. We have none of this. We do have a brain that is so intelligent we are able to make a device used to kill a being but unable to make the connection that we don’t need dead animal flesh to live and in fact we thrive on plants.

 

[nosmoking]

Children aren’t paying to have this done WE are. And we are teaching them to do the same. You have much to unlearn about the devaluing of someone else’s life imagine if someone suddenly came into your home and put a one of those guns (forget what they are called atm ) to our child’s head pulled the trigger and a metal rod slammed into their head ,you can’t do anything Cecile’s you are in a cage unable to protect your very own. Pigs are one animal that lives that hell everyday

You did not answer my question? I did not ask for deflection. Please respond. In fact, I believe all of you spewing that animals are equal to humans should at least state at the same time, but of course I don't have children so I can say that. Do you have a child? Are you a parent? Do you have anyone close to you that you love? I would like to know who is behind the voices that says animal life is equal in value to human life.

 

[TiSteamo]

Who is trapped in whom? Imagining ourselves as animals trapped in human bodies better explains our behavior.

Life is made of stairs.
There are those who go down and there are those who go up.
Can I answer you this way?

This will definitely be my last post on this thread. I'm invoking the serenity prayer clause on this one. Sometimes even "lets agree to disagree" is wasted as in this case.

What I'm getting here is that if a human and a cow were about to get hit by a car and you could only save one and the cow was closer....YOU'D SAVE THE COW!?!?!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU!

Animals and humans are not the same. Similar yes, but the value of a human life is not the same as an animals!

If this were April Fool's day it would make sense to me that you're pulling my leg or...you're a troll.

Have fun folks...I'm out.

Sorry but reading your answer, you look like the troll!
No one said this !!!
Do you read the posts or do you pretend?​

 

[Maninthemachine]

You did not answer my question? I did not ask for deflection. Please respond. In fact, I believe all of you spewing that animals are equal to humans should at least state at the same time, but of course I don't have children so I can say that. Do you have a child? Are you a parent? Do you have anyone close to you that you love? I would like to know who is behind the voices that says animal life is equal in value to human life.

No I don’t have kids..there are thousands of vegans that do and many became vegan when they saw the true nature of the dairy industry and connected with the violence and pain of having your child drug away from you forever and them being mothers themselves (humans ). Certainly not deflecting.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Have fun folks...I'm out.

Nooo!!! We're just about to make progress on these 500-year-old arguments! Here, now, on FC! Don't go!

(Admittedly, they probably are better moved to @TiSteamo's vegetarian thread.)

Do not animals eat other animals? There is something suspiciously natural about that.

Precisely what American patriot and vegetarian Benjamin Franklin said when he reintroduced fish into his diet late in life. Next, he said that the best part of being reasonable beings is our ability to find reasons to do whatever we may want.

 

[Tranquility]

Of course there will be people in any movement that present a negative light.

I know, right?