Child birth is gross and I think very ugly

[TiSteamo]

The waste of resources is a serious problem and I don't really understand why some people joke about it.
Perhaps because, in fact, "they don't know what they do", or they know it and don't care, which is even worse.
Behind the production of meat there is suffering and a huge waste of resources that would be enough to satisfy the whole humanity.
We must fight mental laziness that rests on habits and traditions. A tradition must be critically analyzed, it should not be accepted passively just because it is a tradition.
If you care about your children, if you love them, I think you would like them to live in a cleaner and more fair world, in a less evil world.
To achieve this, things must be done.
How many of you are ready to do them?

 

[His_Highness]

He's a handsome fella, isn't he ?

He's definitely a better looking candidate than the one I could run with. Terrible waste of a fist though.

Thanks for the kind words @Madri-Gal - my daughter and granddaughter are doing excellent. As tough as the birth of the first grandchild was .... this birth went without a hitch. Everyone is going home today. The last grandchild....it was weeks before he was well enough to go home. He turned out beautifully and is currently here with me and grandma making us nuts....just like he's supposed to do.

 

[Tranquility]

The waste of resources is a serious problem and I don't really understand why some people joke about it.

Because, you don't get to decide when resources are wasted. At the end of any process of thinking about resource allocation by fiat gets to economic models that have resulted in the deaths of millions and the impoverishment of millions/billions more. Some might prefer to nip such thoughts through ridicule rather than firearms. I want all to live in a cleaner, more fair and less evil world. I don't want others to decide what that means because many who are telling me their way is the way to such a world ALSO believe in many things I find evil, less fair and dirtier than what is today.

Just because we have similar goals does not mean our paths equally lead to those goals or even lead to them at all.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

@TiSteamo, this might help. Many of the ideas raised in this thread were hilariously ridiculed in this 1974 episode of "All in the Family". It's like that video on vegans in the renaissance, this has been going on a while.

Tried to cue it up to the antinatalist part, but failed. It begins at 5:24.

The rest might be of interest as well. It's from the Friendly Antinatalist YouTube channel, and she provides commentary. Haven't watched it all.

Edit: So strange to see that again. Must have internalized that episode as a boy. Surprised nobody noticed first!

Kung Fu with David Carradine is to blame for veganism. A toxic brew of 1970s TV.

 

[Maninthemachine]

Because, you don't get to decide when resources are wasted. At the end of any process of thinking about resource allocation by fiat gets to economic models that have resulted in the deaths of millions and the impoverishment of millions/billions more. Some might prefer to nip such thoughts through ridicule rather than firearms. I want all to live in a cleaner, more fair and less evil world. I don't want others to decide what that means because many who are telling me their way is the way to such a world ALSO believe in many things I find evil, less fair and dirtier than what is today.

Just because we have similar goals does not mean our paths equally lead to those goals or even lead to them at all.

That first sentence is the most ridiculous statement...of course you decide in that case ... the money you spend supports the industries (meat ,dairy etc) that are murdering ,raping, torturing the animals and the earth..stop demanding and the supply won’t be there. If you don’t think a plant based way of eating is healing looking up dr Sebi. He was arrested and put to trial for claims that he cured aids,cancer,stds any disease and he proved in court to jurors that this was true and he wasn’t lying.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

He was arrested and put to trial for claims that he cured aids,cancer,stds any disease and he proved in court to jurors that this was true and he wasn’t lying.

Gout, not so much. Otherwise, can't complain.

 

[TiSteamo]

Because, you don't get to decide when resources are wasted. At the end of any process of thinking about resource allocation by fiat gets to economic models that have resulted in the deaths of millions and the impoverishment of millions/billions more. Some might prefer to nip such thoughts through ridicule rather than firearms. I want all to live in a cleaner, more fair and less evil world. I don't want others to decide what that means because many who are telling me their way is the way to such a world ALSO believe in many things I find evil, less fair and dirtier than what is today.

Just because we have similar goals does not mean our paths equally lead to those goals or even lead to them at all.

You realize the waste when you understand that to produce a kilo of meat you need hectoliters and hectoliters of water and the fields destined to the production of fodder would be enough to extinguish the hunger in the world.

But I imagine that they are not enough goals if someone has to give up their slice.


This is the point: selfishness. Combined with ignorance it is a lethal mix for this society, for this world.


But vegetarianism is just one example.

Our behavior determines everything that happens in the world.


Let's go back to feeling responsible for everything, instead of delegating and complaining.
That's exactly what the system wants.


Dejected people, who feel useless and therefore try to find some joy in buying and consuming.

 

[Tranquility]

If I decide to spend the money I've earned on cannabis, is that waste?

If I decide to coat my fine chocolates with gold before eating, is that waste?

If I take a vacation to somewhere other than where I live, is that waste?

Why do you feel you get to tell me what I do with my money? Don't I get to decide what is waste to me when compared to my efforts, desires and goals?

 

[arb]

You realize the waste when you understand that to produce a kilo of meat you need hectoliters and hectoliters of water and the fields destined to the production of fodder would be enough to extinguish the hunger in the world.

But I imagine that they are not enough goals if someone has to give up their slice.


This is the point: selfishness. Combined with ignorance it is a lethal mix for this society, for this world.


But vegetarianism is just one example.

Our behavior determines everything that happens in the world.


Let's go back to feeling responsible for everything, instead of delegating and complaining.
That's exactly what the system wants.


Dejected people, who feel useless and therefore try to find some joy in buying and consuming.

As a farmer and a rancher..........you know the person who actually produces the resources you claim to husband...........you seem to not quite grasp how it really works.
I understand your knowledge is second hand and mostly intellectual in nature so I suppose some ignorance is to be expected.
What is not to be expected is you assuming moral superiority and trying to educate and regulate others on matters in which you have zero actual knowledge...........your lack of knowledge while proclaiming your intellectual superiority is the problem...........lolz.

 

[TiSteamo]

If I decide to spend the money I've earned on cannabis, is that waste?

Absolutely not!

If I decide to coat my fine chocolates with gold before eating, is that waste?

It's not a waste, but there are cheaper ways to poison yourself!

If I take a vacation to somewhere other than where I live, is that waste?

Of course not! But did you at least read my last post?

As a farmer and a rancher..........you know the person who actually produces the resources you claim to husband...........you seem to not quite grasp how it really works.
I understand your knowledge is second hand and mostly intellectual in nature so I suppose some ignorance is to be expected.
What is not to be expected is you assuming moral superiority and trying to educate and regulate others on matters in which you have zero actual knowledge...........your lack of knowledge while proclaiming your intellectual superiority is the problem...........lolz.

Well then explain to me how it works! I have read the technicians' data and this is confirmed by many. I don't think it's necessary to be a breeder to understand how it works. Anyway, I'm listening.

As for the so-called "moral superiority", it is you who gives it to me, perhaps because you feel touched by my words, and I like it. But I'm not superb, I'm someone who tries to change things for the better.​

 

[Maninthemachine]

If I decide to spend the money I've earned on cannabis, is that waste?

If I decide to coat my fine chocolates with gold before eating, is that waste?

If I take a vacation to somewhere other than where I live, is that waste?

Why do you feel you get to tell me what I do with my money? Don't I get to decide what is waste to me when compared to my efforts, desires and goals?

It’s stops becoming a personal choice when someone else’s life is taken/murdered.

 

[arb]

Absolutely not!



It's not a waste, but there are cheaper ways to poison yourself!



Of course not! But did you at least read my last post?

Well then explain to me how it works! I have read the technicians' data and this is confirmed by many. I don't think it's necessary to be a breeder to understand how it works. Anyway, I'm listening.

As for the so-called "moral superiority", it is you who gives it to me, perhaps because you feel touched by my words, and I like it. But I'm not superb, I'm someone who tries to change things for the better.​

It’s stops becoming a personal choice when someone else’s life is taken/murdered.

Hyperbole,moral certitude,Buzz words and emotionally manipulative phrases uttered by the very people who espouse the most murderous forms of government known.
How do you maintain the flexibility to perform such feats of mental gymnastics?

 

[macbill]

Champagne don't drive me crazy
Cocaine don't make me lazy
Ain't nobody's business but my own
Candy is dandy and liquor is quicker
You can drink all the liquor down in Costa Rica
Ain't nobody's business but my own

 

[Maninthemachine]

Hyperbole,moral certitude,Buzz words and emotionally manipulative phrases uttered by the very people who espouse the most murderous forms of government known.
How do you maintain the flexibility to perform such feats of mental gymnastics?

You can make it as complex as you want it’s every simple though
The science,facts,information whatever you want to call it is out there for anyone. Animal agriculture is killing this planet. And we are collectively waking up to this mass holocaust that murders billions of life’s per year ,many in gas chambers ,sound familiar? Wake up or stay a sheep ..

 

[macbill]

If wishes were horses then beggars would ride. We can't wish a better world. It's probably true too, that world hunger would go away if only the Catholic church sold off all its priceless objects and all of it assets held in all the lands around the world, etc. and put it all in solving world hunger.

Guess what? That's not going to happen, either. Solutions will have to be 'Win||Win' not 'Zero Sum'.

 

[Maninthemachine]

If wishes were horses then beggars would ride. We can't wish a better world. It's probably true too, that world hunger would go away if only the Catholic church sold off all its priceless objects and all of it assets held in all the lands around the world, etc. and put it all in solving world hunger.

Guess what? That's not going to happen, either. Solutions will have to be 'Win||Win' not 'Zero Sum'.

Of course we can’t wish it ..action is always the best method. The best action would be to stop paying to have this animals holocaust continue

 

[macbill]

So the solution is to find overwhelmingly tasty alternatives to animals. I'll be happy to taste-test.

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

So the solution is to find overwhelmingly tasty alternatives to animals. I'll be happy to taste-test.

As mentioned in another thread, that's what Bruce Friedrich is trying. Winning hearts and minds wasn't working fast enough. There's room for more than one approach.

 

[TiSteamo]

Hyperbole,moral certitude,Buzz words and emotionally manipulative phrases uttered by the very people who espouse the most murderous forms of government known.
How do you maintain the flexibility to perform such feats of mental gymnastics?

Sorry, who espouse the most murderous forms of government known?

Champagne don't drive me crazy
Cocaine don't make me lazy
Ain't nobody's business but my own
Candy is dandy and liquor is quicker
You can drink all the liquor down in Costa Rica
Ain't nobody's business but my own

I like Lou Reed too!

If wishes were horses then beggars would ride. We can't wish a better world. It's probably true too, that world hunger would go away if only the Catholic church sold off all its priceless objects and all of it assets held in all the lands around the world, etc. and put it all in solving world hunger.

Guess what? That's not going to happen, either. Solutions will have to be 'Win||Win' not 'Zero Sum'.

I agree in part with you, but not when you say we can't wish for a better world.
Not only we can desire it, we can also do it!
It depends on us.
But you have to believe that you can.

So the solution is to find overwhelmingly tasty alternatives to animals. I'll be happy to taste-test.

It seems like a sentence said by a polar bear who has only penguins and seals around it.
Give fruit and vegetables to this man !!! ​

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

A quote from an indirectly related story in this morning's newspaper that seems especially appropriate. Which would you rather be?

In politics, as in life, there are Fixers and there are Punishers. Fixers shine a light on problems or injustices and work to find ways to resolve them. Theirs is a constructive vision, one that values cooperation and pragmatism and getting stuff done.

Punishers, too, are about spotlighting problems, a skill at which they may excel even more than Fixers. But Punishers aren’t looking to make things right so much as to find someone to blame — and chasten — for the perceived wrongs.

Indirectly related because much of human migration already has a climate change component, and it's only going to get worse. (For example, some of those at the US border with Mexico are Guatemalans who can no longer survive growing coffee. Are they wrong to migrate?)

It seems like a sentence said by a polar bear who has only penguins and seals around it.
Give fruit and vegetables to this man !!!

Perspective - surely you know people who would have a more difficult time with a vegan diet than you? The Maasai and Inuit people have adapted to a mainly carnivorous diet over millenia. Veganism must look impossible to them. To a lesser extent, the same is true of many others.

What's sad is people who are close to us who we KNOW would feel so much better. Dad enjoyed a bacon-and-eggs breakfast the morning after his exhausted gallbladder was removed - precisely the organ he'd need to have a hope of keeping such a crazy meal in his gut. He got an(other) earful. He still eats bacon-and-eggs. And he's still sick as hell.

 

[TiSteamo]

A quote from an indirectly related story in this morning's newspaper that seems especially appropriate. Which would you rather be?



Indirectly related because much of human migration already has a climate change component. (For example, some of those at the US border with Mexico are Guatemalans who can no longer survive growing coffee.)



Perspective - surely you know people who would have a more difficult time with a vegan diet than you? The Maasai and Inuit people have adapted to a mainly carnivorous diet over millenia. Veganism must look impossible to them. To a lesser extent, the same is true of many others.

What's sad is people who are close to us who we KNOW would feel so much better. Dad enjoyed a bacon-and-eggs breakfast the morning after his exhausted gallbladder was removed - precisely the organ that he'd need to have a hope of keeping such a crazy meal in his gut. He got an earful. He's still eats bacon and eggs. And he's still sick as hell.

I think I am a Fixer.
Yes I know, some people are "forced" to eat meat, due to the environmental conditions in which they are.

Bacon and eggs for breakfast! I think it's an unconscious wish of death.
Seriously, nutrition is a cultural fact.
I've already said, there are people who eat dogs and cats. They find it absolutely "normal". There are people who consider the cow "sacred", others who eat it, some eat horses, others are horrified at the thought.
I know that I can no longer eat an animal, I know that it does not do me good, we do not have suited bowels, we do not have suited teeth.
It is a cultural fact, a tradition. And a tradition is not a dogma, it can be discussed and modified if it causes suffering and pain. Like the public slaughter of cetaceans in the Far Oer Islands, bullfighting and other bloody "traditions".

 

[Deleted Member 1643]

Bacon and eggs for breakfast! I think it's an unconscious wish of death.

Maybe not so unconscious... We are closely related, after all.

 

[TiSteamo]

Maybe not so unconscious... We are closely related, after all.

That's Right!
And cigarette smoke?
We know very well that it hurts, that it causes numerous diseases including cancer.
Yet many people continue to do so.
Because they can't do without it.
Even if they say "I do it because I like it. I stop when I want".
Tradition is therefore an addiction, because although it may be wrong and harmful, we often do not have the power to change it.

 

[Tranquility]

Of course we can’t wish it ..action is always the best method. The best action would be to stop paying to have this animals holocaust continue

And, we're back.

The best part is the "holocaust" reference.

Edit:
It's hard to really get a good discussion over the internet in short bursts on complex matters. Goals are important. For instance, if one's goal is to reduce human population morally (Hence save the Earth from being overly affected by us.), what might be a good way?

Teach women to read.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-world-might-actually-run-out-of-people/

 

[Maninthemachine]

That's Right!
And cigarette smoke?
We know very well that it hurts, that it causes numerous diseases including cancer.
Yet many people continue to do so.
Because they can't do without it.
Even if they say "I do it because I like it. I stop when I want".
Tradition is therefore an addiction, because although it may be wrong and harmful, we often do not have the power to change it.

Yasss! Everything is addictive in some way. It’s time to elevate ourselves and make positive consistent dedicated decisions/habits/addictions. Like eating fruit ,riding a bike ,running ,exercising in some way everyday. Positive affirmations. I have this banner on my phone wallpaper. Affirm it everyday as often as possible. It’s part of the I am which is a very powerful spell( if you didn’t know words are spells when we speak them into existence )

-oldnewb- holocaust Surivivors have spoken on the animal industry resembling the exact same as the Jewish holocaust. Actual survivors..
That went through that hell. Explaninning that we are still putting billioka of lives through the same torture every year. Watch earthlings if you want to see reality