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Ceramic Nail

Discussion in 'Vapor Related Equipment' started by hishighness, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. hishighness

    hishighness Well-Known Member

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    So Hive Ceramics is getting ready to launch (3/1/14), are there any opinions on this yet?

    Information so far:
    Very clean taste (supposedly on par with glass)
    Does not need to be seasoned
    Self-cleaning (cleans to white when heated)
    Chemically inert (made of medical grade ceramic - used in hip replacements)

    Other info:
    Apparently pretty fragile, will break/cracked if dropped
    Hitman Glass's Dougie has a v1 prototype and broke all the edges of his domeless (though he dropped it several times)
    Supposedly there was a very thin weak point in v1 and all prototypes broke there, this has been fixed in the commercial version
    The commercial version will also be made with a replaceable cap option so even when the cap breaks you can get another one
    The team has been using the same domeless nails for more than 8 weeks now without problem and supposedly did a demonstration at AGE where they dropped it from 3 ft without it breaking. Expected life is probably 2-6 months depending on how careful you are (no info on this at all, complete guess here)

    Retail price is expected to be around $50

    Also saw that the Vapor Bros commented on one of their IG videos saying how they decided not to pursue ceramic nails because they couldn't solve the fragility issues - they offered to collaborate/share knowledge, no idea if anything became of that. Some of you may know, VB has its own ceramic vaporizer called the wax converter.

    Two part domeless nail v2
    [​IMG]

    Regular nail
    [​IMG]

    Direct Inject
    [​IMG]

    The v1 Domeless Nails after breaking (still useable)
    [​IMG]

    Electronic Ceramic Nail
    [​IMG]

    Also a ceramic screen (for solventless wax/hash)
    [​IMG]
  2. mrboote

    mrboote ...

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    The issue that I'm having is that when i look at the pictures of the broken nails, it looks to me like regular usage is what has broken them up. Those things were not dropped, they'd be smashed into little fragments if so. For the company to say things like "of course they break if dropped" is some evasive bullshit. Quartz nails to not break from routine usage.

    Naturally the website has the "medical grade" hype and fear mongering in abundance. I'd be cautious of pre-ordering for damn sure.
    Enchantre likes this.
  3. aesthyrian

    aesthyrian Blaaaaah

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    http://instagram.com/p/jyLrQkhWlf/

    Dougie from Hitman Glass put this thing through the ringer and has some honest input. Seems like the flavor is amazing, and if you can sacrifice durability for flavor than it might be useful for some people.

    I am interested in the e-nail. I wonder if it keeping a constant temp like the way a ceramic heating element in a vape works, will reduce crack, fractures, breaking, etc? It seems the rapid heating and cooling is taking it effect on the ceramic.

    This is all just pondering on my part, so take it for what it's worth.

    That's pretty interesting. VB is a very respectable company IME, so if they decided to can it, then what could that mean?

    Very cool of them to offer their insight and experience so that hopefuly, maybe, some can produce a more durable ceramic nail.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2014
  4. hishighness

    hishighness Well-Known Member

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    Prices are out, I actually guessed right on the complete domeless nail ($50). The two piece domeless is 70, replacement head is 20, regular nails are ~40, carb cap is 55.

    That seems to be the big question at this point, how fragile is "fragile"? Dougie for sure dropped his multiple times (3-4+) but I think the other ones are due to heating/cooling stress. Not sure if I mentioned it but Hive also said they planned on releasing a type of torch (might not actually be a torch) that "more evenly heats the nail" in order to alleviate.

    Do quartz nails really not break/crack through normal use? I have a domeless quartz but I rarely use it, saw a comment on IG that said something like "I've been using a quartz nail and dropped it many times over 2+ years and it's not broken" but that sounded like some bullshit to me.

    Definitely think the e-nail is going to be the most popular once it comes out - flawless taste (adjustable low temp dabs), nail cleans to white after ever hit, and longer life thanks to more even cooling. If VB would be willing to collab on it (which is kind of doubtful since they already have their own ceramic 'enail') I would swoop that up in a second.

    Hopefully - with the market is starting to saturate with knock-off electric nails - Hive won't fuck us on the price. If we could get an enail at about $300-400 that would be incredible. 500 at upper limit (my guess for real price) and if it goes to 700 then fuck it.
    SD_haze likes this.
  5. mrboote

    mrboote ...

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    I just don't give two shits what the owner of some overpriced glass company in Maine thinks, period. That issue aside, I'm a little confused if he was throwing it on the floor for a test, or if he is that fucking clumsy. I normally wouldn't be so harsh, but this guy's company makes and sells all glass butane torches...:doh:

    How fragile is too fragile? Breaking from being used for a few weeks is most definitely too frag. I have not experienced quartz failing in this manner. I would suspect throwing it on the floor could break it, I have never tried.

    Ultimately, I hope they work out the kinks and this thing turns out to be awesome.
  6. Tweek

    Tweek Well-Known Member

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    So he is pretty much selling disposable nails?
  7. hishighness

    hishighness Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, disposable nails that are self-cleaning and don't need to be seasoned.

    You guys have to keep in mind that all of these nails that broke went through much much more wear and tear than your average nail (including being dabbed non-stop at AGE/now the Cannabis Cup). Eight weeks with glassblowers/dab aficionados is probably more like 4-8 months with the average dabber who can only afford a gram a week.

    Edit: side note I posted this to see if there was anyone on here who had the chance to try it or had heard about it but seems like there isn't and now I just look like I'm trying to advertise it but that's definitely not the case, I plan on getting one soon as it is available (March probably) and if it turns out these things suck cock I'll be sure to say so
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
    Quetzalcoatl and Caligula like this.
  8. aesthyrian

    aesthyrian Blaaaaah

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    That's quite obvious, since he does not own any glass shops. He owns Hitman Glass, which is a glass company that is located in SoCal. But, I digress. :doh:

    Whether you like the guy, the glass, or his face.. he still has the luxury of being able to dab way more than most people on this forum. That alone makes his input on a hash smoking device that he has used, worth something. He has experience, and plenty of access. I would say its safe to say that the amount of use he put the nail through in a few months is more than I would in an entire year.

    Hive clearly gave Dougie a free nail so that he could use it and obviously in hopes that they would get some good publicity. Dougie was honest in his review, and Hive was honest in their response.
    Mr. Gweilo 420 and Caligula like this.
  9. mrboote

    mrboote ...

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    Sorry, I got my facts twisted, Steve Bates is from Maine, hence the whoopsie. Dabbing a lot and owning a company (not a glass blower himself) makes him an expert I guess.
    Caligula likes this.
  10. Tweek

    Tweek Well-Known Member

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    6,142
    Just telling ya how it looks to me. And maybe I am missing something, but why do I want to buy a product that may only last me 4-8 months?
    aesthyrian likes this.
  11. hishighness

    hishighness Well-Known Member

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    Straight up, the reason I'm getting this is 100% for the self-cleaning - if you don't value that feature then obviously this isn't for you. I think a ceramic e-nail (when it's out) will be the best type of enail available.

    For me personally - with the amount of money I put into buying wax/glass - $50 spread over a few months is nothing. I plan on getting a single piece domeless nail (or maybe a regular nail), seeing how long it takes to break, and how it compares to Ti. If it lasts a decent amount of time and I like it I'll get the two-piece domeless.

    If you're on a tight budget then it's obviously never a good idea to be the first person to buy something, better to wait and see if it's worth the money. (IMO: 5+ months is worth it. glass nails are maybe 10 each and last bout a month so 5 months = 50)
    kindbeats, Meghan and Caligula like this.
  12. aesthyrian

    aesthyrian Blaaaaah

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    You can call him an expert if you want, I wont be doing that though.

    And yes, he doesn't blow glass as far as I know, but what does blowing glass have to do with ceramic nails or testing them?
  13. hishighness

    hishighness Well-Known Member

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    A new ceramic nail has popped up! Head to domeless.com for your ceramic nail.

    [​IMG]

    Look like they're trying to swoop all the business with a lower price ($30) while Hive still gets their shit together but are going to match it once they're live.

    Difference with this one is it has a silica based glaze (in order to help prevent cracking). Hive claims that through their research they found that glazed ceramic was never a good idea and thus not for them. Originally someone (an "employee") posted that dabbing off silica causes silicosis, however they were quickly called on their bullshit (only happens to factory workers dealing with dust at 2300 degrees+). Hive deleted their posts and posted a retraction basically just repeating what others had said and again claiming "we have research that says it's bad."

    Also some more info regarding ceramic nails that I've herad recently:
    Apparently it's very important you don't heat the nail in one place. As opposed to Ti where you just let it sit and hold it, you have to move the flame around and evenly heat the head to prevent cracking.
    Heat capacity is MUCH higher on these (ie: takes longer to heat up/longer to cool down). They've had videos on Hive's IG where they took 5 dabs from just one heating of the nail but someone recently read that this guy let the nail sit for 1-2 minutes after being heated and the nail was still good to dab on.

    Me personally, I'm still waiting on Hive's nail to come out. Seems like it has had more design/thought put into it and the fact that it doesn't have a glaze is just icing on the cake.
    Patrick Hughes likes this.
  14. aesthyrian

    aesthyrian Blaaaaah

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    ^ that thing just looks like a K.O. Domeless ceramic adapter with a head on top...

    It really looks cheap as all hell. :lol:
  15. hishighness

    hishighness Well-Known Member

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    decided to pick up the nail from domeless.com (instagram.com/domelessdeamon):
    [​IMG]

    first things first i really want to mention what a homie the guy from domeless.com is. called him before i ordered and spent bout 10 minutes talking to him asking how it cleans/how well it would work with enail and he was more than happy to answer all my questions and then some. after accidentally messing up my shipping address he offered to expedite a new one to me free of charge just because "i want you to be completely satisfied." really can't emphasize enough how cool this dude is and how everyone should go support him just because of what great business practices he follows. if you have any questions at all about ceramic give him a call (# on isntagram) and he'll set you straight

    anyway it's ironic that i waited until the week hive finally starts releasing to stores to pick up the other nail but really just got tired of dealing with them. their customer response is just too shitty at the moment and they don't seem to be worried about getting out information on the ceramic, just selling their product. after being blocked from their instagram for posting a mildly rude (though 100% accurate) comment i decided enough is enough and picked up from domeless. compared with hive i would support domeless 100% simply because of how they conduct business

    now after all that finally can talk about the nail:
    it's pretty nice! today's the only day i'll get to test it before i head back home for the week but i'm really loving how it cleans to white. i'm currently trying to figure out the perfect time to heat/let cool for the tastiest dab; i think using an enail on it would make it work much much better (was hoping my enail would get in today so i could test them together but no such luck).

    others have reporting the wax "pooling" in the bottom of the nail and this definitely does happen a bit but using a carb cap greatly reduces this 'puddle' (and he's coming out with his own carb cap too). using the enail should heat the cap more evenly which also greatly reduces this puddle effect

    definitely need to put more time into testing this thing but i'll come back to this thread in a week when i've returned and report back anything i forgot
    farscaper, Mr. Gweilo 420 and mestizo like this.
  16. hishighness

    hishighness Well-Known Member

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    120
    okay, my enail arrived so i have been using this thing a good amount all week, would definitely say it is the best tasting dab i've gotten so far, the platinum cookie shatter i got tastes realllll nice off this thing (small dab + low temp + carb cap = best flavor). the piece does clean to white after a little while but it's pretty uneven and takes quite some time (20+ to get it looking decent on one side). i got the nail all black and then waited, this is it after about 10 minutes (@750-850*F)
    [​IMG]

    clearly some uneven heating, i'm going to get the flat coil I think from domeless deamon and use the washer method:
    [​IMG]
    I think the flat coil would work better on both the titanium and ceramic so i'd rather get this instead of the enail adapter for the infiniti

    should also mention i'm getting some pretty bad problems with cracking, even with the enail (used torch once or twice). my first cap got a big crack through the whole thing more or less. started using the second one and also ordered an unglazed cap just to see the difference (later talked to the guy and he said there is none so oops). also just noticed my domeless base also has a bit of crack down it so idk how long that will work for.

    kinda sucks how short they lasted, i guess they're really cheap (~$5) but still. i'll probably call the guy and ask him about it, i might be putting the nail too hot (710*F usually) but i dont think so
    Bouldorado, Caligula and jeffzorz like this.
  17. jeffzorz

    jeffzorz Member

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    what kind of enail are you using
  18. hishighness

    hishighness Well-Known Member

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    a friend of mine actually made my enail for me (can find instructions online by searching "diy enail")

    reporting back in, it turns out the reason for it cracking was my own fault; I tried to screw the cap in as tight as possible around the coil (so as to get max surface area) but I forgot that metal expands when it heats up... obviously cap screwed tightly down on coil + coil tries to expand with heat = crack in ceramic.

    speaking of cracks my base's fracture ended up cracking off and it's now missing a fat piece in the side (still works 100% fine). i talked to the domeless.com guy and he said if i ship in my [cleaned] base he'll replace it for free - again, cant stress how cool that guy is

    a friend of mine managed to use a hive ceramic nail and she said that the hive nail is similar in that it takes quite some time for the nail to clean and in her words, "you have to get it dangerously hot for it to clean all the way." the absolute only reason i wanted to try a hive nail was because i thought it cleaned to white relatively fast but after hearing that it's pretty much the same i couldn't be happier with my domeless.com purchase. to anyone looking to pick up a nail i would for sure recommend getting on from there instead of hive for a better deal, better customer service, and just overall better experience.
  19. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    On Shakey Ground
    I hadn't seen this thread. I recently received my hive. I posted pics and a review in recent acquisitions.

    IMHO - I enjoy my halen honey hole more. A few reasons, the hives self cleaning claims are a bit exaggerated. Unless your torch is super hot, and I'm using a GT 8000 it takes very high heat to clean. As far as taste - much better than Ti but not quite as rich or terpy as quartz. Lastly on the negative side is if the nail isn't TOTALLY cool, good luck trying to get it off your rig. It sticks like a mother fucker.

    Now, with that being said there's a few really cool features. The heat retention is off the chain. I was able to pull 4 dabs on one heating. Now don't forget the retention either because you may think it's cooled down and you can grab it and switch rigs. Don't do that lol...

    Another recommendation is to get the carb cap. To keep it as clean as possible I cap it everytime.

    So all in all, cool piece to have but don't kill yourself over it.
    farscaper and hishighness like this.
  20. Mynameismud

    Mynameismud But call me Alowishus Devadander Abercrombie.

    I dont know about the normal use thing, but i had a domelss quartz. Had it resting in my dome on the table, the dome got knocked over still on my desk and the domelss cracked in half.
  21. mvapes

    mvapes Surrounded by the healthy!

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    Like anything else you have good quality and poor quality quartz and boro nails. The ones sold between 15 and 25 bucks in most headshops are usually bought in bulk from China. I've broken a few of those. With that being said, if you took the dive on a Halen or a Borofarm piece I don't think you'll have anything to worry about.

    Now that doesn't mean you not take care of it and be careful but I have a Halen and it's very solid.

    Regardless, isn't this a ceramic nail thread? Lol - just looking out for us...


    :uhoh:
    DDave likes this.
  22. jeffzorz

    jeffzorz Member

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    Wanted to say the guy from domeless is cool as fuck. I'm going to order a ceramic carb from hive though.
  23. Bouldorado

    Bouldorado Well-Known Member

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    Picked up a hive today and I'm very impressed with it. Flavor blows my 14 mm quartz (domed) out of the water. Cool down takes a while; I measured it with my IR gun and from the the temperature required for cleaning (815+) it takes ~2 minutes to cool to optimal dabbing temperature (500F).

    I won't be heating it to white very often since I feel it's a waste of butane and a small bit of residue probably doesn't affect flavor very much.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    farscaper and hishighness like this.
  24. i love you mary

    i love you mary New Member

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    10
    ive dropped my 14mm quartz on concrete, it survived.

    just tried a ceramic nail i bought off of ebay. flavor was amazing, & after

    2 days of use i see cracks! im gonna try hive, until i can get a good ceramic e-nail.

    the ceramic screen for ice wax is dope. i didnt want to smoke from a titanium screen!
  25. Bouldorado

    Bouldorado Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    CO
    My hive has only had ~20 dabs through it so far, but it hasn't had any issues.

    There is one part of the hive that I actively dislike: no visual temperature indicator. quartz/titanium glow red and then you know to wait a certain amount of time. not really possible with the hive.

    It's also a bit annoying to heat the hive the way they recommend: by holding the torch mostly vertical and rotating it
    farscaper likes this.

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