Discussion in 'Vapor Related Equipment' started by mrbonsai420, Oct 7, 2016.
Do it, then when you two sesh you can hit both. They are awesome together.
I finally got my storm cells today. I was surprised that the bottom two fins sat down inside the bucket of the 30mm. It's way more secure than my old 2.0 setup which took a few falls onto the floor. Both of my caps seal tight once I backed out my intake tube. It has definitely made my hits thicker. So far I'm a fan.
I wanted to edit my last post to include a picture. Seems like I can't, so please, pardon me for posting so much. If a mod wants to move this picture and following message to my last post, I'm all good with that:
QA needs to be addressed. I'm 0 for 2 on carb caps. There are gouges and divots all over the bottom face. These 2 are the most obvious and start from the edge and run all the way up to just before where it starts to seal on the 20mm.
...set mine up yesterday...(ten minutes at most)...20 mm bucket with traditional hurricane cap...hits are large...and tasty...more tasty than firefly2....and...much larger..won't use this set-up every day...but..it will def. have its place in my rotation...once again many thanks to mr bonsai and his efforts...really appreciated brother.
Follow up here on adjusting my Auber RDK-300 controller for the 30mm flat coil Liger. I ended up trying out my IR thermometer to calibrate the unit. It's not a particularly high quality thermometer, and some around here are suspect of IR thermometers, so I wanted to get a range of reading and average them together.
Starting the coil at 400F and going up to 800F in 50 degree increments, I took measurements of the surface temperature of the quartz dish. I gave a minute or so for the temperature to stabilize, made sure the thermometer's sensor (not the laser pointer) was correctly aligned with the dish, and took the highest temperature read-out. At each measurement, the PSL was between 1.30 and 1.32. I was surprised that the coil temperature and the thermometer reading scaled so tightly together. I would have expected the thermal efficiency to decrease as the coil temperature increased, but it didn't seem to whatsoever. The 400F coil was 306F at the surface, and the 800F coil was 608F at the surface. The readings from the coil and the thermometer seemed to corroborate each other given they are compensated with the PSL.
I ended up setting the unit to a PSL of 1.31.
Here's a photo of the fitment of my Storm Cell with my 30mm Liger V3.
I get 25mm to the bottom w/o an insert.
I measured with two differet inserts and got 19-20mm
Gave it a shot, still stuck.
No, it's wedged in about 80% of the way down.
I was a jackass when placing the insert into the bucket.
I can get very narrow dental picks in between the insert and the bucket on the high side of the insert.
I've tracked down some flexible and ultra thin (.015") lockpicks that I'm hoping will do the trick.
Man I would attach the banger base and air intake (to use as a handle while torching - wear heat resistent gloves) to the bucket and hold it over a very soft, cushioned surface. Then I would lightly torch the titanium bucket, 5 seconds of torching at a time while moving the flame about the bucket until the insert drops out. It will be nerve racking stuff. You must be sure to catch the insert on something very soft and heat resistant. This is likely to be the only way you can get these unstuck. I have found this to work very well for titanium components that get stuck solid on borosilicate GonG joints too
Best of luck to you man, that is a fucked up situation you've found yourself in!
I have noticed that the Liger inserts seem to vary wildly in size. My SiC insert is much, much smaller than my sapphire insert. You could easily fit a small phillips head screwdriver down the side of the SiC insert between insert and bucket! I wonder if your sapphire insert may be slightly wide, or perhaps the bucket is not quite ideal in dimensions?
Definitely can recommend the Auber RDK-300. I have one. I sort of wish I had bought the 200 as I don't really use the added features of the 300, but both have the same base functional performance.
I don't have a D-nail so others will have to respond to that. I only have the Liger 2.0 in 20 mm and I love it and don't see the need for me personally to have a larger dab surface. The 20 mm works great for me.
Hope this helps a bit.
TBH, as someone with extensive experience with all of the d-nail halos (more than anybody else here given I was one of the first people anywhere to own a SiC, quartz or sapphire halo!) and now with the 30mm Liger (SiC and Sapphire only, quartz is redundant IMO), there are limited scenarios where I'd recommend the liger over the d-nail.
If you do large dabs or dab a lot of powdery concentrates (the kinds of things that require shovel tools and which might lead to accidental spillage of concentrates down the middle air intake hole of a halo), then you should get a liger 30mm.
If you do not use shovel scoop requiring consistencies, then get a d-nail halo. The d-nail vaporizes noticeably quicker with the same flavor and clouds as the equivalent liger sapphire/sic. You'll never be likely to find that your dabs are too big for the d-nail halos, which are still bigger than most other e-nails out there except for the 30mm liger.
The d-nail carb cap and dabber design/function is hands-down better, the wick surface on the sapphire and quartz does help spread your dab for you and the d-nail halos are much easier to assemble and use without issues (the ligers require fucking around with stretching/reshaping coils or require tightening with external tools/pliers etc). Also the d-nail halos are much easier to clean than the Liger (the air intake on the liger is much longer than the d-nail slim series base and the liger intake is very noticeably more difficult to clean). I will note one exception, which is the sapphire liger insert is easier to qtip than the sapphire halo. However, given the additional difficulty in cleaning the titanium parts of the liger over the d-nail slim series, I would prefer to clean the d-nail personally - if given the choice.
If you torch at all, get a d-nail SiC halo (you should never torch sapphire). This is a no brainer as the Liger requires you to torch the titanium to heat the SiC insert inside, which will oxidize it and fuck up the anodized finish/change thermal properties over time. If you only want enail and do not meet the above criteria which are best suited by a Liger, then get a sapphire halo
If you meet the above criteria, you cannot go wrong with either the SiC or Sapphire liger The liger is considerably more expensive than a d-nail setup so I really do strongly urge you to consider your needs as IME, the liger is only better than the d-nail halo in certain usage scenarios.
Any tips for getting the intake tube flush? Having a hard time getting it locked in once flush. Always seems to fall out. But the alternative of having the intake jutting out is messing with ball cap I just got, so I assume it will be the same with the Storm Cell (which I hope will be on the way soon. PLEASE GOD!!!lol).
If your rig has a 90 degree straight angled gong, IME this cannot be screwed in without the intake sticking into the bucket because as you say, not enough thread is present to hold onto the bucket. I really hope that this issue gets resolved!
Stock liger caps seem to work even with the intake sticking a little in.
went back and forth with Josh over email. What a nice guy! I truly hope this company kills the game after going thru some growing pains. Long story short the wait begins for a 20mm Liger v3, just debating the storm cell or hurricane for the 20mm, leaning towards the storm cell. Any advice?
Hmm, actually I would go Hurricane for the 20mm. It's just so easy to drop it on without thinking about it.
Oh ok. I was just worried as many are saying the hurricane is hug and holds heat forever. Does the storm cell not fit perfectly on the 20MM?
Hey, @herbivore! So glad you joined the party. Your posts are always so fair, thoughtful, and intelligent.
I do not use "shovel" type concentrates, mostly "affordable" shatter, but I still prefer the Liger over the D-Nail Slim Series for the following reasons:
* I'm clumsy, especially when I'm medicated, and don't like a giant hole in the middle of my dab surface
* Same deal for Q-tip cleaning after each dab
* Since I'm clumsy, I like having my delicate inserts locked into the Ti bucket instead of exposed like on the D-Nail for knocks, tip-overs, etc.
* The D-Nail tends to produce more reclaim due to the air intake being in the middle of the hot dab surface. I can run almost 7g through a clean Liger and only get a little less than 0.75G reclaim, and it's honey golden in color like no other reclaim I've seen.
* I like that the liger is a Banger and keeps the heat off my glass (though I understand D-Nail makes those types of adaptors now as well)
So maybe more uses/reasons to prefer the Liger over the D-Nail than just for fullmelt, but I'm absolutely not hating on that awesome device (D-nail), which even Josh will readily admit was an inspiration/jumping off point for CCA.
And before everyone goes calling me a liar, shill, whatever:
* I pay wholesale for the items I Beta test
* I don't make money doing it (not that it's anyone's business anyway, but there ya go)
* I go hard advocating for the Liger because I think it's awesome, plain and simple
* I do hope Josh can resolve the machining and turnaround time issues so that everyone can be as happy as I am with the device
Thanks for reading!
No, it fit's quite nicely too. I just slightly prefer the Hurricane on the 20mm. Here are both in action though so you can see what you think for yourself.
20mm with Storm Cell
20mm With Hurricane
Man you're awesome. Thanks much!
Greetings sir, and thankyou for your response!
If you have a lot of trouble aiming your dab without hitting the centre hole on the sapphire halo, then the Liger is probably the only nail that is going to help you. I have disabilities that effect motor skills but do not have this problem at all ever, but I am sure others could have conditions that more seriously effect their aim and for them a Liger would be helpful.
However assembly of the Liger would immediately undo this benefit. The assembly is about as user unfriendly as an e-nail setup gets.
Qtip cleaning actually drives me insane on the liger with oils (full melt is easier to qtip on every kind of surface). The sapphire qtips easier than the d-nail sapphire, but that is when it is not in the liger bucket. In the bucket during use, qtipping often makes the insert spin with the qtip and makes the task take much longer. This is supremely frustrating and I wish the inserts kept in place during use!
IMO a tip-over with a d-nail not such a problem in some ways because the dish is held in place and cannot rattle around inside a bucket. My original sapphire halo fell 8 feet down onto stone floors without breaking into pieces. It remains usable with one single small hairline crack which has never changed with further use. Has anyone ever dropped their Liger like this and had a similar survival?
IMO the Liger does not keep the heat off the glass as much as people say - nor to an extent that I trust it directly on my rigs (tend to leave my e-nails on 24/7). I still use an adapter between my rig and Liger. It puts a hell of a lot of heat on the adapter still and I would no sooner use that directly on one of my rigs than I would use one of my d-nail halos.
I have one or two very, very expensive rigs which are my daily dab drivers. I will not risk them on this. Less expensive non-worked glass is a different story but I find such rigs are perfectly fine with the d-nail slim series base directly onto the gong with no adapter/dropdown (protip - put another heater retaining nut between the bottom thread of the slim series air intake and your base and you will keep huge amounts of heat away from your GonG!).
Now man as to your comments on the reclaim, I can only strongly refute this claim with my experiences. I recently dabbed on my sapphire halo for a week straight, then did the same with my Liger, which built up considerably more reclaim in just 2 days of use than what the week of sapphire halo hits did. I did not vary my doses during this period and actually was closely documenting doses for medical reasons at the time.
The Liger gets major build-up in the air intake (the main source of my cleaning gripes), much more than the Slim series intake which is kept hotter and hence keeps the vapor flowing through it in the vapor phase (we use the same techniques to keep glassware warm in a lab distillation rig).
IMO the much higher price of an equivalent liger setup to a d-nail setup is not usually justified (most of the extra cost is paying for a longer titanium path and more cleaning too!). You have paid a beta wholesale price, which in my experience of wholesale pricing would be as cheap or cheaper than the d-nail setup. This is a significant factor in the decision of which one to purchase. Given the prominent issues with Liger titanium machining at the moment, this is a hard proposition to swallow for would-be purchasers paying full price
Wouldn't call you a shill at all though brother, I believe that you like the nail
@herbivore21 - hello, my friend. I only have the Liger 2.0 in 20 mm. As I read your comments on the Liger, and in particular difficulties in assembling it, I wonder if you have had any experience with the V 2.0? I ask because I found it very easy to assemble. I believe (or thought) that a lot of the 3.0 assembly issues were related to early pre-full production units and in particular to the heat shield.
I also have no interest in 30 mm dab surface Liger. I just don't have the need for it although I can understand where some may prefer that for the type of product they consume or the amount.
The Liger has worked wonderfully for me so far and I'm happy with it except for the carb caps. I don't want to go on a rant at all, love Josh and the Liger, but the CCA710 caps are, for me only, way too complex and over engineered for this simple task. I have been using an iDab carb cap that @mutten840 turned me on to from the Dab Lab. Cheap, easy to use, very effective. I found the Storm cap that I have to be too touchy about getting it seated correctly and the dab tools look rather humongous and clunky to me (I just a HE tool with ball point on one end and flat blade on another and a Ti paper clip type tool). The one thing I do like about the CCA710 tool is the scoop which I find is very handy for budda/crumble type consistency material.
I am definitely NOT the most experienced dabber here nor do I use concentrates to the extent of many others. So, factor that in to my views but I do like my 20 mm v2.0 Liger and find it very easy to use and maintain.
Greetings my friend! I have not used the 2.0 ligers at all, since these were before there was a liger sapphire offering available. I only really dab on sapphire at all for a long time now
I have had the final heater shroud for quite some time now and it has not at all resolved the assembly issues. You have to tighten the shit out of the locking nut with a pair of plyers (hand tightening will require significant extra heat to get adequate vaporization) on the 30mm flat coil v3 liger. I have heard from some that the v3 20mm coils may require/benefit from stretching for best function too.
I never bought a 20mm unit because this cannot be justified given that I already own the Sapphire halo (given that the two have near identical surface area and the halo being considerably cheaper than a 20mm sapphire liger setup with a better cap design, easier assembly and cleaning).
The intake jutting into the bucket and not having enough thread to stay in place if you keep the intake out of the bucket is a major PITA too, and gets in the way of some carb caps. We are completely on the same page on the carb caps. There are so many issues with the Liger caps compared to the d-nail offering. The d-nail cap has one airflow setting, less separate parts and doesn't give us a bunch of mystery airflow options (I say mystery because it is not clear which setting is which and there remains no documentation - some here have reported different airflow settings on the same notches suggesting that the airflow settings may be different on different liger caps). The kicker is that the multiple airflow options are not necessary in the first place. The single hole option works best and the others all leak too much vapor for me to even consider using them.
The straight air intake hole on the Liger caps means that they perform best if you spin the cap around on the nail (this gets the airflow moving around and spreads your dab a little. The d-nail cap has angled airflow and gets quicker, more full vaporization without even touching the cap. You can also carb the intake hole with a finger or qtip for extra clouds and even quicker vaporization! The holes on the liger caps are positioned in a way that makes this impossible.
I wanna see a liger with carb caps that move the airflow/dab around for you, requiring no movement or attention during use. It must have dabber handles that don't get hot and are long enough that the hot cap is away from the palm of your hand when lifted off the piece (the Liger should have somewhat longer dabber handles than the d-nail cap - the cap is wider and a hand-burning risk so extra distance from our hands would be appreciated!). I also wanna see liger caps without adjustable airflow and a focus on simply getting ideal airflow/pressure inside the vapor path for quicker and more efficient vaporization
I'm obviously not picking on Josh or the Liger here. I like the device, it has a niche for me but atm there are a variety of frustrating issues that I've noticed over time using the liger that weren't problems for me with the d-nail. Most of these factors could be quite easily resolved however
Baron is this the cap?
I never had any problems with assembly of the 2.0 20mm or the 3.0 20mm. No tools required to fasten anything. Both took me around 10 mins to get working and 10mins to tighten the coil which wasn't required but it allowed me drop near 100f.
Cleaning is very easy all i do is unthread the nut from airtake take those and the adapter, direct inject along with the insert and iso wash them. The ti that the insert sits in on the 20mm 3.0 is attached to your coil so if it's tightened you really don't need to remove the coil only if oil got past your insert somehow. The entire bucket section on 3.0 I only clean if resin has gotten on the sides of the banger or between the inserts which has never happened yet.
The older 2.0 storm caps restrictor could be flipped to be in order closed-open airflow. 3.0 cap restrictors seem to only fit one way it seems. Was never a problem for me because i looked at how many holes were open in light on each setting when i first got caps.
Now i did find what one thing that was worse on the 3.0 20mm when compared to 2.0 20mm liger. The heat transfer to the joint is a lot warmer on the 3.0 20mm because the 2.0 had a larger adapter that would thread into the top piece of adapter and allow for all 14/18 and that design kept a lot of heat off the joint.
If you have a 2.0 20mm I'd just grab the 3.0 20mm bucket the rest of the design is pretty much the same but a little more low profile/better for smaller rigs because nail sits lower.
I like the design of the hurricane cap with 20mm you really don't even need to move it around just the shape and direction airflow hole gets the oil moving. My 2.0 storm cap worked great on 2.0 but i should mention it doesn't lock onto the new design of the 3.0 20mm lip at all. I only use 1/2 holes on the cabs but not bothered by having extras. New hurricane worked with 2.0 20mm but it had a little less room to rotate because its lip was much smaller on the bucket.
EDIT: If you tightened your coil for the 3.0 20mm you want it at the top of its enclosure because that's closest to the inserts location. Which was the opposite on the 2.0 where you wanted the coil near the bottom of enclosure because insert was placed differently. I recommend shroud hole being at the top for 3.0 20mm so this is easier to achieve! Shroud is meant to be loose on 2.0 if its not loose its property your coil holding it down don't worry about it.(Flipping 20mm shroud doesn't effect anything.) Liger 3.0 20mm actually does a great job at holding in the heat comparing it to 2.0 where sides of banger had lots of heat coming of it while 3.0 only from the top definitely more efficient.
Whats the best way to clean a halo?
ive tried that green away simple green stuff and 70% rubbing alcohol. Any other suggestions?
As of today, it's been 38 days since I ordered my Storm Cell. .Rapidly losing patience! Has anyone else had to wait this long?
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