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Cannabis News

Discussion in 'Cannabis News and Activism' started by vtac, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    The "adults" who have been running things brought us to the opiod crisis. The other "adults" chosen by Trump (like Sessions), are not your cup of tea.

    The only "fucking people" some would approve are Democrats. Since they were the fucking people in charge for eight years, I'm thinking they wouldn't be the best for the job.

    If the fucking people who fucking hate Trump don't stop fucking telling me about all the fucking people they fucking hate from the fucking pool that #Resist does not approve of that fucking Trump fucking picks his fucking people from, I'd be a lot fucking happier.

    For the fucking people who think the fucking campaign worker is the wrong fucking choice; why? I assume you don't like fucking Trump's fucking drug policy, so, why so fucking pissed at a fucking 24 year old put in fucking charge of part of it? It can't be that you're fucking afraid the fucking young fucking man is going to be fucking awesome at it.
     
  2. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

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    655
    Are you joking?

    You need to relax @OldNewbie. I'd consider the Bush Admin, with all their faults, to be adults. While I have issues with Republican drug policy, this particular criticism of Trump has nothing to do with him being a Republican. Hell, the grifter was a Democrat for the vast majority of his adult life.

    I just happen to be embarrassed by the Game Show Host Administration. Many people are.

    Trump has a history of nominating people who are incredibly unqualified for their positions. Rick Perry, a fucking moron, had no clue what the Department of Energy even did. He thought he would be travelling around the world promoting American oil. Can you look me in the eye and say that isn't moronic?

    If you want further examples of the "children" Trump appoints, I'd be happy to provide them.

    But in this case, Trump appointed an actual child to "solve the opioid crisis". The kid is a campaign volunteer with ZERO experience in drug policy, treatment, enforcement, or science.

    And we already KNOW what Trump's solution to the opioid crisis is. He wants to launch an advertising campaign telling people "Don't do Drugs". And he thought this was a novel and effective idea! That's the level of stupidity we are dealing with here.

    So no... lol... I am not "afraid" the 24 year old will succeed. I already know he won't. "Just Say NO" isn't an effective policy. It's a joke.
     
    grokit, mitchgo61 and cybrguy like this.
  3. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,223
    Location:
    southeast of disorder
    Let's not drift off topic, folks. Please keep this thread on the topic of Cannabis News and not on whether you like or dislike the current U.S. administration.

    Thank you.

    :peace:
     
  4. macbill

    macbill Gregarious Misanthrope

    Messages:
    3,944
    Location:
    The Evergreen State
    While discussing HOW we got here is mildly interesting, I believe our focus should be WHERE WE GO FROM HERE. All of us should literally write (use a postcard: it's deemed safe) our congress-critters, Democratic and/or Republican, stating our belief that Cannabis usage should be up to the states. Get going, ganja users!
     
  5. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    You really need to get out more before you call things "stupid".

    I happened to be listening to a radio show this morning when the adult drug warrior William Bennett who was the Secretary of Education when Nancy told us to just say no and who was the drug czar (Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy) under Bush 1. He claimed illegal drug use was halved under the program. (Which, of course, was more than a phrase repeated by the first lady.) With a Google search, I find there are some who agree with him.

    http://dailysignal.com/2016/03/11/n...mpaign-helped-halve-number-of-teens-on-drugs/
    http://www.history.com/topics/just-say-no

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Say_No
    Even Wikipedia, no conservative bastion, said:
    Nancy Reagan's related efforts increased public awareness of drug use, but a direct relationship between reduced drug use and the Just Say No campaign cannot be established. Although the use and abuse of illegal recreational drugs significantly declined during the Reagan presidency,[14][15][16] this may be a spurious correlation: a 2009 analysis of 20 controlled studies on enrollment in one of the most popular "Just Say No" programs, DARE, showed no effect on drug use.[17]
    In other words, SOMETHING certainly happened. What caused it is not known by studies. We all know DARE was not successful.

    Even the left, who hated the policy, found there was substantial change. They just ascribed it to other things, like incarceration.
    https://thinkprogress.org/the-disastrous-legacy-of-nancy-reagans-just-say-no-campaign-fd24570bf109/
    https://www.theguardian.com/society...rugs-just-say-no-dare-program-opioid-epidemic
    \

    We can debate if the something that happened is a good thing. We can debate as to if the policy changed attitudes toward drug use. But, it was not a stupid policy, but a serious policy put out by smart and educated adults who felt that drug use was a problem.
     
  6. cybrguy

    cybrguy I mean really, WTF

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    6,193
    Completely laughable. Thanks, I needed one.
     
  7. Slothington

    Slothington Passive Member

    Messages:
    20
    @OldNewbie @florduh Any chance I could convince you to take your discussion to pm's? Or at least keep it off Cannabis News? Thanks in advance.
     
  8. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
    Agreed. Here is a simple way to contact your Member of Congress and Senators.

    https://contactingcongress.org/

    Also remember to vote wisely. For example, voting for any Senator who confirmed Jeff Sessions seems like a symptom of Stockholm Syndrome to me. And I'm not bashing Republicans here. One Dem voted for Jeff as well!

    I apologize. Things got a bit heated. I agree this isn't the place.
     
  9. Silver420Surfer

    Silver420Surfer Well-Known Member

    Reagan--Biggest piece of shit this country had to suffer through...until Orange-man.



    The U.S. government policy, starting in the Nixon and Ford administrations and continuing under Carlton Turner* (Drug Czar under Reagan 1981-1986), allowed federal medical marijuana, supplied to the individual state marijuana medical programs, to consist only of the leaf of the marijuana plant, even though it’s usually only one-third as strong as the bud and doesn’t contain the same whole spectrum of the “crude drug,” i.e. the THC and CBNs.

    * Prior to becoming Special White Hose Advisor (read: National Drug Czar) Carlton Turner, from 1971 to 1980, was the head of all U.S. government marijuana grown for drugs by reason of his position at the University of Mississippi. The U. of Mississippi Marijuana Research Program is directed by state charter to discover—initiate or sort out the constituents of THC—a “simple” crude cannabis drug that works as a medicine—then synthesize the substances with beneficial medicinal properties to attain their full potential for pharmaceutical companies.

    For example, the leaf’s relief of ocular pressure for glaucoma patients is much shorter lasting and therefore unsatisfactory, compared to the bud. Also, the leaf sometimes gives smokers a headache. The federal government until 1986 used only the leaf. Turner said to the pharmaceutical companies and in interview, that leaf is all Americans would ever get—although the bud works better. Still today in 1999, the seven legal marijuana users in the U.S. only get leaf, branch, and bud chopped up and rolled together. Although buds work better for chemotherapy, glaucoma, etc., the branches can be as toxic as smoking wood.

    Turner said, in 1986, that natural marijuana will “never” be given as a medicine and, as of April 1998, it still hasn’t. (Except in California, where citizens successfully voted, in November 1996, to overrule the federal government on medical marijuana!)

    The reasons given:
    • Buds are too hard to roll through a cigarette machine. (Forget the 25 million Americans who do quite well at rolling bud everyday.)
    • By extracting compounds from the “crude drug” of the bud, there would be no pharmaceutical patents, therefore no profits. Therefore, his program would have worked against his former employers, the Mississippi University’s legislative charter and funding.
    (Interviews by Ed Rosenthal for High Times Magazine; Dean Latimer, et al; National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, or NORML.)

    Although buds work better for chemotherapy, glaucoma, etc., Turner said they will “never” be given.

    It also became evident the famous marijuana ‘munchies’ (appetite stimulation) were not working for the cancer chemotherapy patients using federal leaf.

    And even though no studies have been allowed to compare leaf with bud, we know of doctors who unofficially recommended bud and watch their wasting cancer patients put on weight (NORML).

    Poisoning Pot Smokers

    In August and September, 1983, Turner went on national television to justify the illegal marijuana spraying (by plane) of paraquat in Georgia, Kentucky, and Tennessee by the DEA. He said it would teach a lesson to any kid who died from paraquat-poisoned pot.

    In August and September, 1983, Turner went on national television to justify the illegal marijuana spraying (by plane) of paraquat in Georgia, Kentucky, and Tennessee by the DEA. He said it would teach a lesson to any kid who died from paraquat-poisoned pot.

    Turner was forced to resign after announcing his conclusions in public that marijuana caused homosexuality, the breakdown of the immune system, and, therefore, AIDS.

    Looking into the therapeutic potential of cannabis is the most controlled and discouraged research, but any tests pursuing negative or harmful effects of cannabis are promoted. Since these tests often backfire or are inconclusive, even this research is rare.

    Turner quoted “The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire” to show how jazz (rock) singers are eroding the America “he” loves with this hallucinogenic drug—marijuana! Which he meant to stamp out.


    In August and September, 1983, Turner went on national television to justify the illegal marijuana spraying (by plane) of paraquat in Georgia, Kentucky, and Tennessee by the DEA. He said it would teach a lesson to any kid who died from paraquat-poisoned pot.

    Turner was forced to resign after announcing his conclusions in public that marijuana caused homosexuality, the breakdown of the immune system, and, therefore, AIDS.

    Looking into the therapeutic potential of cannabis is the most controlled and discouraged research, but any tests pursuing negative or harmful effects of cannabis are promoted. Since these tests often backfire or are inconclusive, even this research is rare.

    Turner quoted “The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire” to show how jazz (rock) singers are eroding the America “he” loves with this hallucinogenic drug—marijuana! Which he meant to stamp out.



    Phony Paraquat Kits
    During the 1978 Mexican marijuana paraquat scare, and while still a private citizen working for the state of Mississippi marijuana farm, this same Carlton Turner called High Times magazine to advertise a paraquat tester.

    Unknown to Turner, High Times was not accepting ads for any paraquat testers because all evidence showed the testers didn’t work.

    Dean Latimer—then a High Times associate editor, strung Turner along in virtually daily phone conversations for a month, listening to Turner talk about how much money Turner was going to make from sales of the device.

    High Times wanted to see a sample. When Turner delivered his prototype version of the paraquat test kit to High Times, it was a total “Rube Goldberg” type rip-off, “just like the dozen or so phony kits other companies tried to buy ad space for at this time,” wrote Latimer in an article published in 1984.

    Turner apparently never thought High Times was ethical enough to check the contraption out. He assumed they would just take the ad money and run—print the ad and make Turner rich.

    He didn’t care if some kid died or was bilked out of money believing in his bogus paraquat test kit.

    After this attempted mail fraud, this man became President Reagan’s national drug czar in 1981, recommended by George Bush and Nancy Reagan.



    A Wanton Disregard For Life

    Turner even said that he doesn’t even care if hundreds of kids die from smoking pot the federal government has deliberately sprayed with paraquat.

    Then at the April 25, 1985, PRIDE conference in Atlanta, Georgia, with Nancy Reagan and 16 foreign First Ladies in attendance (including Imelda Marcos), Turner called for the death penalty for drug dealers.

    Turner was, after all, Reagan’s, Bush’s, and the pharmaceutical companies’ own hired gun, who saw his entire mission as not against heroin, PCP, or cocaine, but to wipe out pot and jazz/rock music…

    Carlton Turner was forced to resign after Newsweek magazine excoriated him October 27, 1986, in a large editorial sidebar. His resignation was a foregone conclusion after being lampooned in the Washington Post and elsewhere as no other public figure in recent memory for his conclusions (in public addresses) that marijuana smoking caused homosexuality, the breakdown of the immune system, and, therefore, AIDS.

    He resigned December 16, 1986. What should have been front page headline news was buried in the back pages during the Iran-contra scandal that exploded that week.



    Urine Testing Company

    After his resignation, Turner joined with Robert DuPont and former head of NIDA, Peter Bensinger, to corner the market on urine testing. They contracted as advisors to 250 of the largest corporations to develop drug diversion, detection, and urine testing programs.



    Soon after Turner left office, Nancy Reagan recommended that no corporation be permitted to do business with the Federal government without having a urine purity policy in place to show their loyalty.

    Just as G. Gordon Liddy went into high-tech corporate security after his disgrace, Carlton Turner became a rich man in what has now become a huge growth industry: urine-testing.

    This kind of business denies the basic rights of privacy, self-incrimination (Fifth Amendment) rights, unreasonable search and seizure, and the presumption of innocence (until proven guilty).

    Submission to the humiliation of having your most private body parts and functions observed by a hired voyeur is now the test of eligibility for private employment, or to contract for a living wage.

    Turner’s new money-making scheme demands that all other Americans relinquish their fundamental right to privacy and self-respect.

    the authorized on-line version of Jack Herer’s “The Emperor Wears No Clothes”
    text from “The Emperor Wears No Clothes” © Jack Herer

     
  10. Silver420Surfer

    Silver420Surfer Well-Known Member

  11. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
    The best border wall is a legal marijuana market

    "In a paper published late last year in The Economic Journal, economists Evelina Gavrilova and Floris Zoutman and sociologist Takuma Kamada found that the creation of a domestic marijuana industry—in the form of legal markets for medical marijuana—led to a 12.5% reduction in violent crime in US states bordering Mexico.

    The researchers were testing a fairly simple hypothesis: Introducing legal marijuana markets decreases the revenue that drug-traffickers earn from smuggling illicit substances. In turn, that reduced revenue leads them to invest less in crime."

    There's your fucking "wall", Mr. President. And instead of emptying the Nation's coffers, a legal market would fill them.
     
    GreenHopper, grokit, hd_rider and 4 others like this.
  12. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    So, marijuana and crime are linked? Or, the wall will also reduce crime? Or, immigration and crime are linked? (Perhaps immigration and crime and marijuana are all linked!)

    By bringing in the irrelevance of the wall, you screwed up the message.

    LEGAL MEDICAL MARIJUANA PROVEN TO REDUCE VIOLENT CRIME.

    Easy and something we can all get behind. The last line? Back to fucking...
     
    grampa_herb likes this.
  13. grampa_herb

    grampa_herb CO2 oil bigot

    Messages:
    519
    Location:
    in my meat sack
    Al Capone loved Prohibition. Same old same old...
     
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  14. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
    This isn't "MY" message. Click through to the article. It discusses a paper written by two economists and a sociologist who looked at the available evidence and came to a conclusion. Wouldn't it be nice if our leaders used an evidence based approach to governing?

    The authors also included this quote from a DEA Agent: “They erect this fence only to go out there a few days later and discover that these guys have a catapult, and they’re flinging hundred-pound bales of marijuana over to the other side,” the agent said. “We’ve got the best fence money can buy, and they counter us with a 2,500-year-old technology.”

    I apologize for the colorful language. But I was born and raised in a shithole country (Florida). Us shithole people... we just don't know any better :rofl:
     
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  15. grampa_herb

    grampa_herb CO2 oil bigot

    Messages:
    519
    Location:
    in my meat sack
  16. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    601
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    The whole " a wall will stop drug smuggling" thing has always been mind boggling to me.
     
  17. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
    It only makes sense if you don't really think about it.

    Like the DEA dude said, they will always find a way around it.
     
    OldNewbie and Squiby like this.
  18. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
  19. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    Especially now that fentanyl is the drug being moved, you are not going to stop the cartels with a wall. If it costs a bit more than $3,000 to make a kilo of fentanyl and that same kilo can be sold (At the lying government's "retail" price.) for about $1 million, that leaves some room to pay for delivery. Old school baseball throws or modern drones, it is getting through.

    However, they're still a bit away from perfecting the person catapult that will make the wall useless for immigration issues.
     
  20. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
    You build a 20 foot wall... you've just created a market for 21 foot ladders.

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
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  21. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    Clever. Read it off a cereal box?

    Sizzle.

    Do walls work anywhere? Or, can someone always just buy a bigger boat, I mean, ladder?
     
    florduh likes this.
  22. grokit

    grokit well-worn member

    Messages:
    12,010
    Location:
    the north
    Trump's building that wall right now legal or not it's being built.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=wall+being+built+now&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

    When the Berlin Wall was torn down a quarter-century ago, there were 16 border fences around the world. Today, there are 65 either completed or under construction, according to Quebec University...

    Here's a list of just a few of the border barriers that are either being built or are under preparations to be built in the near future:
    [​IMG]
    And of course...
    Trump's new idea? Walls have lined national borders for thousands of years

    :myday:
     
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  23. florduh

    florduh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    655
    No, I'm just a smart ass.

    At the end of the day, yes. If people want to get over your wall, they will find a way over it or around it. The real question is does the cost justify the benefit. Most people won't bother buying a ladder. They'll simply book a flight and overstay their visa.
     
    OldNewbie likes this.
  24. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,419
    You know, maybe, someday, people from both the North and the South of Korea will walk into the Olympic Stadium together for peaceful competition, even though they are, technically, still at war and threaten to destroy each other with great regularity. Maybe, someday.

    By the way, I agree the wall is stupid. If you're talking about the specific meaning that every inch of the border is going to have a double wall of a certain height. While it can help, it seems hardly worth the cost when other, technical, means might be better. Especially in certain areas, drones and patrols would probably be more effective at less cost. The thing is, technical things ebb with the tide and a wall takes effort to remove.

    Everyone agrees we have a lot of immigration issues and there is going to have to be many deals and compromises in many areas that affect almost all of our and our children's^2 lives. As you allude to, the immigration problem is far larger than the U.S./Mexican border. There are many areas that have gotten problematic and we really have to try to come together to find some solutions rather than the can kicking that just does not seem to work for very long any more. I think the wall is considered by those who support Trump because of the issue to be a physical symbol that the first thing we have to agree is that we must control our borders.

    Having the physical representation is important to them because the promises given to control the borders by technical means in the past were not lived up to. How do we know? Look at the numbers we're talking about today. Clearly, by any fair measure, we have not controlled our borders. Those who put the wall as a higher priority in their wants and needs have different reasons for that. Some are big national security voters, some are big process/rule-of-law voters, some are true believers who want to make things better and this is the best way voters and, some, are racist voters. All those different sections of voter blocs came together to give us this wonderful gift that keeps on giving us things like the stupid wall.

    All because those who promised to fix it last time(s) let that promise float away in the wind.

    Edit:
    (After I've written that, I look at the topic of the thread and apologize. If a moderator wants to delete it--I have no objections.)
     
  25. psychonaut

    psychonaut Company Rep

    Messages:
    2,135
    Location:
    CO
    macbill, BabyFacedFinster and florduh like this.

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