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Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome?

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by Nosferatu, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone around here on this new supposed condition called cannabinoid hyperemesis or cannabis hyperemesis?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_hyperemesis_syndrome

    Basically it is when chronic users wake up nauseous and throw up until they smoke or vape. There is no science on it just random case studies. I'm not sure if its bullshit or a real thing to worry about.

    I personally have felt mild symptoms of this but I now just believe that was from extremely unhealthy lifestyle and abuse of the herb. The only time I have hacked up and thrown up and attributed it to herb is when I quit smoking weed and tobacco and only vaped or dabbed, and I hacked up for days. But I believe it really is the expectorant effect just getting the gunk out of your lungs. So chronic smokers have alot of resin and tar in there and in the morning, after you haven't smoked the longest the lungs are ready to slightly expel. If you smoke right away you are just halting the lungs from beginning the healing/expeling process for another few days.

    I finally quit all combustion and only vaporize oil now, after the first few days of no smoke I was spitting and coughing phlegm like crazy, even throwing it up 5 times a day, and this lasted days. Vaping would immediatly make me cough phlem and even throw up. I'm finally better and have finally felt the negative health effects of smoking too much weed. I'm not sure if cannabinoid hyperemesis has anything to do with my experience but I would bet it does. Because the other theory is that it is true withdrawl and your cannabinoid receptors are not functioning without THC and blah blah blah. But I think it is just a cleansing process. I will never smoke regularly again though!

    Anyways sorry to ramble I just really wanted to see what this community thinks or knows about this supposed condition, or if it is just propaganda or something?
     
  2. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    Hey there Nos,

    We've been having a bit of a discussion in the "Nausea; the monster" thread in the medical section about this over the past few weeks. I brought up the subject because I had recently been diagnosed with the syndrome by my stomach specialist who was investigating my issues of daily nausea and infrequent attacks of cyclic vomiting which could last for days. Since getting the diagnosis I have been doing a lot of research and personal experimentation to try to understand more about this phenomena.

    First things first; this is not propaganda. At all. For the past year I was suffering nearly debilitating nausea every day, especially in the mornings. During this time I was imbibing about .8 - 1.5 grams a day in various methods, most common being vaporizing. I would wake up in the morning and the first thing that I would do is vaporize because of the pain I was in.

    About once every three months I would wake up and it would be over. I would be so sick that I could not do anything other than lie in a bed and throw up for days on end. The only thing that could possibly make me feel better was a hot shower; which is a common effect among those suffering from CHS. In fact, it is almost uncanny in the fact that suffers have this in common.

    After I was diagnosed with this; I stopped completely for several days and then started enjoying the herb on an infrequent basis. Within the week, my nausea was gone. I just didn't feel sick anymore. Eating no longer made my stomach warble and waking up is not a 4 step process anymore. My life returned back to normal, for lack of a better term. Of course, this is my story and your mileage may differ.

    Now what really causes me to scratch my head over this is the cause. I've got three pet theories about why this is happening to people and why it is only coming to light now. The first is that this condition is being brought about in us by the disproportional increase in THC and other choice cannabinoids in selectively bred plants by the growers. It may be possible that other, less known cannabinoids provided an effect on us which allowed our bodies to better handle the more popular molecules; and that this condition is brought on by a buildup of THC that the body cannot process or work with for that reason.

    The other is that this effect has always been there; and it is only coming to light now because people are being more open with their doctors about their habit; and more people are taking part in the cannabis culture. It simply serves to reason that as this group increases in size, so do those who are effected by this.

    The final one is that it is a plain and simple toxicity issue. Most people that I have discussed these issues with have been huge, unmitigated consumers of the herb. Smoking, eating, vaping; it doesn't matter; everyone has their own way of getting the chemicals in their body, but the point is that they get there anyway. We all know that the toxicity level of THC is somwhere in the degree of 14 kg of raw marijauna; but that may not be the case for other chemicals that are present within the plant. It is very possible that the amount of other chemicals entering the body through the use of marijuana are reaching levels that our body finds toxic when they are being consumed in such large amounts; and that our bodies react as if they being poisoned because of it.

    Whatever the reasons are; it's here and it's real; and I challenge anyone who tries to assert otherwise. However, there is no reason that one has to completely stop enjoying the herb; as when it is used in moderation it is still quite harmless.
     
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  3. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the nice response, good to know you are better. So even when only vaping did you have these symptoms, or is it simply smoking weed causing this? I agree about the THC levels being to high these days also, the strains these days arent the best effect. So basically you are saying moderation is key?
     
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  4. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

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    How long would you say after you stopped the nausea would go away? Did it just CEASE when you stopped using cannabis, or did it just improve? How rapidly would it return if you were to continue vaping heavily?

    I need to figure out the weight I use on an average day, but it varies.
     
  5. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    I was vaping herbs almost exclusively for the past few months with the odd edible and toying with oils. I would smoke the odd popper; which is a half and half mix of tobacco and weed (old, bad habit I only do with my friends), but that was it in terms of an average day. But yes; my intake was pretty much pure vapor.

    When I stopped taking marijuana completely, it took me about three days to realize that my usual stomach pain and nausea was lessening to the point of nonexistence. It was at that point I decided I would try vaporizing again and I have not noticed any nausea since. At this point I consume about .3 grams of herb in a day and perhaps 2 medium dabs of oil.

    I do think that moderation is the essential part here. I still enjoy the herb, and the times I vaporize are far more intense and pleasurable then the times when I had my considerable tolerance. I don't know how long it would take for me to start getting sick again if I started vaporizing as much as I did; but I sure don't want to find out.
     
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  6. photobooth

    photobooth Well-Known Member

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    I have had minor symptoms that match these occasionally. Once every 1-2 months I will wake up nauseated and no matter what I do, I end up vomiting. However, whole process happens within the first couple hours of waking up.
    Once I vomit my stomach settles completely and the nausea disappears; initially I assumed it was poor diet and not getting a full sleep. But it seems to occur regularly enough that it has another source.
     
  7. CVS Sufferer

    CVS Sufferer Member

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    YAY Another thread! -

    I dont think I really need to post much on here. If you are also researching the non proven, poorly researched and poorly documented Cannabis Hyperemesis you will probably have seen me before looking for answers.

    For equality purposes and anyone else reading who doesnt suffer these symptoms and are unsure...........there are other adult sufferers of this terrible vomiting syndrome that do not smoke cannabis aswell!! Make that of what you will! Infact a doctor who specialises in the field of the known syndrome of "Cyclic Vomiting" state that only 40% of her adult CVS sufferers smoke cannabis. So what exactly are the causes of vomiting for the others? Even the published studies say that abstaining cannabis doesnt work in every case!!!! In those same poorly done CHS studies, they only pick out and study CVS patients who smoke cannabis and ignore the patients who dont. What sort of study is that? A study that certainly wasnt funded by the CVSA that is for certain!

    Here is a paper which was written by a CVSA specialist in which cannabis, although not condoned, it is quoted "The possible role of cannabis in causing CVS has been examined, although it remains controversial

    http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/933135-overview

    That means a specialist who specialises in the area of cyclic vomiting has examined the possible role of cannabis in the illness and even she doesnt believe it!!!!! It doesnt take a genius to see that various doctors are not doing their research thoroughly enough and I invite anyone who believes they have cannabis hyperemesis to come over to the CVSA forum for a friendly discussion about it. I think doctors check that forum and would be very interested to hear from you. You will see the thread I have started, it would be great to hear your stories, more particularly your recovery after abstaining etc.

    All that being said, I am NOT a doctor and maybe abstaining cannabis has stopped your vomiting, some people report it does. However even more report it makes no difference. I think, like the CVS doctors think, it is a correllation rather than a causation. Infact in some states in USA in is prescribed for cyclic vomiting.....go figure?!

    Thanks for listening and reading. Every side has 2 stories and this one there are people who claim abstaining cannabis worked, and others claiming it doesnt. As I said, 50-60% of CVS patients dont smoke cannabis so IMHO it cant be a cause.....does it make symptoms worse? Maybe in some, maybe not on others but I doubt it is solely to blame

    I have started a thread on the cyclic vomiting message board about this very subject and I would really like it if some of you will go on there and tell you story, your symptoms and how they have disappeared since you abstained. I am told the CVS doctors check that forum so I cant think of a better place to have the discussion (no offence fuckcombustion.com) I am finding a few differing symptoms between people who claim to have Cannabis Hyperemesis to those who have Cyclic Vomiting so like I said, it would be great if you could go on there and discuss it in more detail with people who understand the symptoms. I wont link the forum but it is easily searchable via google.

    I will finally add aswell, if anyone is interested in the actual illness Cyclic Vomiting (what some doctors are claiming is caused by cannabis abuse)...........please watch Greys Anatomy from the week 15th November 2012. It is based around a male patient who keeps ending up at the ER with this mysterious vomiting episodes and is finally diagnosed with cyclic vomiting. He doesnt smoke cannabis and as usual is accused of being an alcoholic or drug seeker. Incidentally, it is being directed by one of the actresses Dr Bailey (in the show). Her daughter suffers from cyclic vomiting and she is doing it to raise awareness of the illness. She doesnt smoke cannabis either!

    Thanks and please I arent saying it doesnt cause your symptoms, I am more wanting to discuss them on the actual CVS forum :)

    I will add aswell, the greys anatomy character was not portraid exactly like the CVS community wanted him to be and it did upset quiet a few people. The writers over ruled Chandra Wilson's idea for the episode and she had the choice to either go with it or cancel the episode.

    She thought it was better to get the world cyclic vomiting into the domain as no-one really knows much about it and she wants to spread the word. Many people/doctors/this thread!!!! think it is down to drug or drink abuse when they are so very wrong. Like I said, maybe abstaining cannabis has worked for the OP but it doesnt work for everyone. Many of CVS patients have abstained with no difference at all and many patients dont even smoke.

    Its a hard one because the CHS studies have not been officially funded like the above study I have posted from a CVS doctor. I believe they have their own agenda by only selecting CVS patients who smoke cannabis rather than a broad selection of cyclic vomiting sufferers. It would show the same cause so that is why they were not included.........hence why I and many others are sceptical.

    That being said, I am pleased cutting down helped the OP but this proves my point even more. The doctors who report CHS state that ANY use of cannabis will bring about the symptoms, well even the OP has proved this "theory" wrong by smoking in moderation with no symptoms.

    Thanks again for listening

    Only me again lol

    I meant to say aswell, The hot showers is an absolutely appaulling way of diagnosing supposed cannabis hyperemesis syndrome, and just shows how poorly done the research and studies are when doctors are claiming this is a sign.

    Many CVS sufferers both children, adult, non cannabis smoking AND cannabis smoking adults use hot showers and baths when trying to cope with the illness. It is scientifically proved WHY the hot water works and it is absolutely NOTHING to do with cannabis use. To claim this is just as bad as the studies these doctors have carried out. They are supposed to be doctors but dont know the basics around hot water :/

    Mod note: When possible, please avoid making back-to-back posts in a thread. Use the Edit feature located at the bottom of your posts.
    No bumping. Please do not bump your threads to try and get attention. Be patient. Five posts merged.
     
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  8. darkrom

    darkrom Great Scott!

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    "I meant to say aswell, The hot showers is an absolutely appaulling way of diagnosing supposed cannabis hyperemesis syndrome, and just shows how poorly done the research and studies are when doctors are claiming this is a sign."

    I agree with this only because there are very few things a hot shower doesn't seem to help at least a little. Colds, stomach aches, cramps, back pain etc.

    Its too soothing for everything IMO to be used as a sign.



    I am more inclined to blame one of the endless factors of the universe than cannabis, but I do take it seriously and keep it in mind. Today I'm TRYING to abstain completely just because. I've done that MAYBE 3x over the last 5 years TOPS. If I have will power I'd try to take tomorrow off from cannabis too, but I don't know if I've got it in me. I'm doing good so far though. No cannabis last night, vaped 1x lightly during the day. Still going really strong. Key is staying busy and hoping to control the medical needs other ways. I've been blessed that it is physically possible for me to abstain if I need/want. I know others don't always have that option.
     
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  9. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    Good luck darkrom, remember some people claim even using once a week gives them constant medical benefits, I think we are all guilty of overusing to get HIGH! :science:

    I am not trying to deny that cannabis hyperemesis exists but I also think there is another environmental factor at play otherwise everyone would get it. I used to throw up and have nausea/headaches my whole life and since using cannabis regulary I have never really been sick until this one recent incident, but it could of just been the stomach flu(which many around me had), and the cannabis just had me hacking/throwing up). I also think most peoples weed and oil aren't as organic or clean as they think, especially what comes from the majority of the medical dispensaries.
     
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  10. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    Hey there CVS_Sufferer. I've been doing quite a bit of reading off of the CVSA message boards over the past few weeks since I got my diagnosis and have been meaning to post my story to the thread but have not yet because I am still trying to figure a couple of things out before I started spreading my story.

    I'm also pretty disappointed at the lack of any proper medical research having been done into this disease, especially since it is becoming more and more apparent every day that lots people are suffering from it. I've had a great deal of difficulty in the initial parts of my diagnosis as to whether or not this truly was it's own disease or whether I was suffering from CVS. And honestly; I am starting to think that these two diseases are separate from each other and are only similar in their symptoms.

    The reason I say this, is that CVS sufferers have a constant; never ending struggle with their nausea. It does not simply "go away" like mine has, when they stop consuming a certain substance. I know that this is anecdotal evidence; but at this point it's all we've got. The "showers" bit may also seem inconsequential; but to those who have felt the effects of supposed CHS, it is literally a magic pill, and not just a soothing comfort. You don't just feel better after a shower with CHS, you ARE better. At least for a little while. And from what I have seen; it does not seem that CVS sufferers enjoy a similar effect.

    Long story short; physicians right now are stumped; and I don't think that much of the research that has been done into the cause and effect of CHS has been done properly, especially when the doctors say it can be brought about by even moderate consumption of the herb. However, I am absolutely certain that this is a real and separate condition from that which people with CVS have; however similar it may be in symptoms.

    Thanks for making an account and posting; the more brains we have working on this the better. You will be seeing me around on the CVSA boards soon; I just want to make sure I've got all my ducks in a row before I come over there and complicate things.
     
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  11. CVS Sufferer

    CVS Sufferer Member

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    Evening all, thanks for the responses, hopefully we can take this over to the CVS forum soon...its doing my head in checking forums and posting on them lol Thanks to the mods for merging my post. I did honestly look for an edit button, obviously not hard enough lol

    Where to start...first thanks for keeping things sensible. Like you said, we need to talk and keep things friendly. Arguing and shouting doesnt get us anywhere and it is a shame when threads relating to health end up like that :(

    Nosferatu - Honestly, I have done alot of reading about the subject and your vomiting like you said could have been down to anything (not dismissing your symptoms ofcourse). Unless it happens again, and then again, I wouldnt be overly concerned with cannabis hyperemesis, if it is even a condition mind. If anything I would first look into cyclic vomiting which is very much migraines and nausea. Like you say, you have suffered your whole life which means I am guessing before using cannabis? Its easy for a doctor to blame cannabis, hence why they do. I just know of many people now who have abstained cannabis and still had their cyclic vomiting attacks. All the doctor say then is "oh, it cant be that then". Its because all they are doing is using google to diagnose you too :( Let us know how you get on...you will soon know if you have the puke monster lol ;)

    CentiZen - Interesting mate, your someone who sounds like they have a story to tell too :) I have quite a few questions for you so what the heck, I might aswell ask them here instead of waiting lol Please again pal, everything I say is in questions, not nasty or looking for an arguement! I really wouldnt patronise people like that.

    Did your stomach specialist diagnose you with Cannabis Hyperemesis then? When you say physicians are stumped, how many? You speak like it is common knowledge in the medical arena as such, no doctors or specialist I have ever seen has ever heard of cyclic vomiting nevermind cannabis hyperemesis.........is it getting such a big thing where you live? You also say it is getting more and more apparent every day, again not to argue with you ;) but this isnt really my experience. Granted I do post on a fair few forums but I guess on my favourites I have about 8 threads like this one. Within each thread there are very few people who are willing to come out and compare symptoms and discuss things further. They appear to always be mothers of sufferers or girlfriends/wife's of sufferers. Now I arent saying they are trolls however they cant be considered "cases" of CHS. So in the whole world wide web there arent many patients at all, maybe 10 I have found and none of them are willing to speak in detail really. 10 from all the million cannabis smokers isnt alot to come forward and want to share their symptoms. I know many cannabis smokers, who know many more cannabis smokers and no-one has ever heard of my symptoms. If was cannabis related I personally think it would be alot more known. People just dont suffer in silence with cyclic vomiting like the doctors who believe in cannabis hyperemesis make you believe that those patients with CHS have been for years. Again mate, I arent dismissing what your saying, it might be all over where you live but for me, doctors have never seen my symptoms.

    The showers aswell mate. When you say you are magically better, I and many other CVS sufferers do have exactly the same experience. In that, I can be very very close to vomiting and having an attack but jump in a hot bath and it "can" instantly relieve my nausea and make me better. However, when I have been sick even once the bath barely helps relieve the symptoms....the cycle has already started and I am deep in vomit lol Is this the same for you? Or does it make you feel better even after you have been sick?

    If they are 2 different illnesses I will find out lol I am doing everything I can to speak to people who say they suffer from cannabis hyperemesis but unfortunately I am struggling. It is easy to speak to Cyclic Vomiting patients who suffer the same symptoms as me, some of whom smoke cannabis, others dont. What I find frustrating is where are all of the these patients who have taken part in these studies? Why havent they ever come forward and spoke of it?

    Thanks again for accepting me and listening to what I have to say. As I said at the beginning, this is the key to finding out the truth, whatever it may be. Looking forward to seeing you over on the CVS forum when you get your ducks in a row aswell CentiZen. You do appear to have quite abit you could add to the thread, particularly because your another one whos doctor has diagnosed you. You will see on the thread, a few others have also been diagnosed and abstained with no difference. Do you think only cutting back on cannabis really has made the difference then instead of quiting completely?

    Stay well everyone :)

    E2A - LOL I found the edit button YAY ;) Just to add. Now I believe I have cyclic vomiting and not cannabis hyperemesis but I dare say your specialist would disagree with me until I abstained and was ill again. However I got ill when I was a very light smoker of soap bar hash, twice a week. I now smoke very good quality cannabis whenever I choose BUT I am getting better the last couple of years! Episodes are getting less frequent which is something you certainly wouldnt expect with toxicity of the body from a substance I continue to use more heavily. I suppose it just back up the theory of 2 illnesses?
     
  12. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    I think you'll find that we have quite level heads over here; in fact, it's the reason I decided to stick around in the first place. I've been discouraged by many other cannabis culture forums in the past for various reasons but the community here is wonderful. I've seen how some of these threads discussing CHS/CVS can end up elsewhere in my research and will ensure the same does not happen here.

    And don't worry; I can tell that you are like me, you just want to get to the bottom of this mystery. And if my story can help with that then it makes me happy to share. Ask away.

    My stomach specialist has been seeing me for approximately a year and a half, perhaps two now. My attacks started about six months before that, with seemingly random bouts of nausea every week or so coupled with attacks of cyclical vomiting about once every three months. For the first little while they treated it as a pyloric-gastric issue, thinking that perhaps it was brought around by my diet, overactive PPI pumps or ulcerative in nature. After the barrage of tests failed to answer their questions (taking about a year) they started thinking that it was a more serious gastric issue, and had me scheduled for a gastroscopy, which was just recently completed (keep in mind, I am in Ontario, Canada; which is literally the worst place in the developed world for wait times). Once they finished with the gastroscopy, my specialist finally came across Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome, most probably mentioned to him by a nurse who worked with me and informed me about the condition. That's when I got the diagnosis; and was only a few weeks ago. Since then I have been doing quite a bit of research on the topic. I worked with 3 physicians on this issue, but my specialist was the most involved.

    I also am hearing quite a lot of anecdotal stories from people, like you are. Even people I know in real life have drawn parallels to a roommate or friend who have suffered similar conditions to myself and smoke/vape pot. Of course, until I meet those people I don't really know what they were dealing with.

    I definitely think that this isn't something most people will ever suffer from. If it was a direct cause of marijuana, I think that this condition would be much more well known. I think that people need to be predisposed to the condition, otherwise, this would be like alcohol and hangovers.

    It's good to know that the showers are big factor with CVS as well. When I was under the effects of an attack, it was similar to what you describe. In most cases it would totally dissapate the nausea, but if I was in the middle of a cycle of vomiting then all bets were off and I was suffering for a while.

    I really appreciate all the work you are doing to try to get to the bottom of this. I don't know why there is so little discourse going on about the condition right now but I agree that we need to get more of it going. What is your handle on the CVSA forum?
     
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  13. CVS Sufferer

    CVS Sufferer Member

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    Thanks for the response mate and also for accepting I arent questioning you but more asking questions (if that makes sense lol). I do find it annoying how threads turn either preachy about cannabis use or people who dont actually suffer post so I can never really ask of their symptoms etc.You will probably see this if you are doing research aswell lol

    My username is CVS Sufferer right down the line mate. I prefer to leave it that way so then people know who they are talking to. You will see the thread i have started anyway, its 5 pages long now, granted mainly me lol

    Just a few more questions if thats ok?

    How long did you smoke cannabis before your symptoms came on? From what I can gather you have suffered for what, maybe 2 years. When you say vomiting attacks every 3 months, are these the ones that mimic CVS symptoms? What about the nausea in between? Is this just morning nausea as such with no vomiting or pain?

    Just a few more I promise lol

    You said you now feel much better, and did so after a few days from cutting down. Honestly with me it would probably take me 6 months to a year to confirm that my symptoms had gone. I havent felt ill for a month or so now so even stopping cannabis for me wouldnt have such an immediate effect as such.That being said, I used to be ill alot when I was in my early twenties so maybe I am now "growing out" of CVS like some sufferers do and therefore dont infact have CHS? This would make more sense to me as my cannabis use is heavier now than when I was really poorly with CVS, which like I said before, doesnt back up the theory of toxicity.

    I find it really interesting aswell that all of your symptoms have disappeared but yet you are still smoking it, albeit lighter. You see this is why we all must talk more....as you said, it cant be as straight forward as smoking too much cannabis, far too many people would have developed the syndrome by now. I dont think it is in anyway related but it is just easy to find a causation. You are proof that what the doctors say in the CHS studies is not true in that pure abstaination is the only way to get better............clearly not.

    Funny aswell, I live in a huge cannabis area and no-one has ever heard of the syndrome. Some people like yourself report to speak to a few people who know people who know people. Like you though I prefer to count the ones I can speak to personally like this :)

    Have you seen this link - http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/933135-overview

    It is a medical paper written by a CVS Specialist updated in November 2012. She discusses cannabis hyperemesis and states that it has been investigated and remains controversial. There is no evidence to back the claims up. I am more liable to believe a CVS doctor who has been paid to investigate CVS than a doctors who's funding is totally unknown and studies are somewhat misleading!

    Anyway mate, I look forward to continuing our discussion. Head on over to the CVS message board, there are a few other stories on there like I say and thanks again for answering my questions, it is really helpful. I have devoted alot of time to this so far and will devote as much as needed until we get to the bottom of it. I am willing to listen to everyone, including the trolls who like to preach about cannabis use. Providing people are willing to answer questions and keep things friendly I am sure we will get there :)
     
  14. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    I am just glad to help out my friend, I can tell you are putting a lot of time and effort into figuring this out and I’m glad to help however I can. And yeah, I totally know what you mean about other threads on this topic, especially in places where people seem to be of the opinion that there is no possible way cannabis could cause discomfort.

    I had been using cannabis for about 4 years when my symptoms started; however it was only in the last two of those that my intake sharply increased.

    When I have a full on attack, I might as well have CVS. From what I have read I basically experience temporary CVS which can last anywhere from a 24 hour period to three days. Cannabis does nothing at that point to relieve the pain. The suffering and nausea get to the point where not even Zofran has any effect other than making me tired.

    In between those, however; the nausea is not anywhere near as serious. It is comparable to the feeling of having a large amount of gas stuck in your intestines, along with a moderately nauseous feeling which I could usually shake off after a few minutes.

    It sounds to me like your symptoms are entirely detached from your cannabis use. Otherwise, I’m sure that you, with your analytical mind would have noticed a correlation long before now. However, that’s not an assumption to make lightly, and I could be wrong.

    I kind of feel sorry for all of the physicians and researchers who have been tasked with these conditions though. It seems that they were stumped enough already trying to figure out CVS, and now this whole other layer with CHS complicates things quite a bit. And being an issue that manifests in numerous types people for seeming different reasons… yikes. This might take a while. Though as soon as you hear about a legitimate study relating to this, please let me know as I will gladly take part.

    Though I would also like to point out that I’ve only been without my symptoms for a short while, which is part of the reason I decided against coming into CVSA with my story. While I sure hope not, there is always a chance that this is a placebolic effect and that I’m just wrong about everything.

    You will be seeing me at CVSA shortly, CVS_sufferer. Thank you for all of the work you have and are doing about this, I really appreciate it.

    Michael
     
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  15. CVS Sufferer

    CVS Sufferer Member

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    Hiya CentiZen, thanks again for your response.

    Maybe you are right and my CVS is completely detached from cannabis use but to be honest that is irrelevant really. I have learnt what my triggers are over the years and i have limited these all as much as possible using meds for CVS and changing various things in my life. As I said, I do appear to be getting better lately. Still, that wont stop people making assumptions about me and my cannabis use due to these poorly completed studies and blogs where people are just repeating them. This is my main reason for doing all of the research and posting. As you say, I think I would know if there was a causation of cannabis for my CVS. Thats why I get so frustrated finding threads like this (no offence obviously) where people have no evidence at all and are just repeating the poorly done studies based on their own symptoms, which are normally quite different to CVS.

    This is what concerns me the most...........being labelled by friends, family and associates who decide to do a little search on google about cyclic vomiting, the awful illness I suffer from. I dont care if cannabis is the cause or not....if it is then so be it, I would never use it again, its no big problem, I have just found out with my research that more often than not that is isnt a cause. Still, that clearly doesnt stop doctors from diagnosing Cannabis Hyperemesis, forcing patients to quit to prove it isnt cannabis. When this happens all the patient gets from the doctors is "oh it cant be cannabis then" :(

    Again mate, it isnt about me and my illness tbh. It is about the label CVS sufferers are getting around the internet because of lack of information about cyclic vomiting. To diagnose Cannabis Hyperemesis because the patient gets in a hot shower or bath to relieve symptoms is ridiculous. As I said, many CVS patients who dont smoke cannabis do this too but the doctors who are ready to blurt out cannabis as a cause clearly dont know this, so it does make me question how much they do actually know about CVS.

    I wouldnt like to say or even form an opinion of your illness pal. I dont get daily nausea like you, I follow a more typical pattern of CVS with triggers and attacks. Did you notice anything that triggered your sickess every 3 months? Only to be sick for 3 days aswell every time is quite unusual for CVS. Some patients, me included have gone weeks being sick. Again that isnt to dismiss your symptoms ofcourse! Hopefully we can discuss them in more detail when you come over to the CVSA forum.

    I think we misunderstood eachother though. I get frustrated by thread like this where people claim cannabis is a cause, it appears you might get frustrated by people who think it isnt and cant do any harm. Ofcourse cannabis isnt for everyone and will give some people negative effects, but these people who post on the threads I am sure do so with the best of intentions. They, like many millions, smoke cannabis daily with no symptoms at all so why would they believe it would make other peoplesick? What frustrates me is the people who are claiming to have CHS (not you) but never come anywhere near the CVSA forum where it could help other people. Starting threads on cannabis forums stinks of propaganda and again, that is really why I am posting everywhere...............I arent having my illness CVS, which is just started to be recognised across the world as a RARE DISEASE (NORD have and another body) being used as a tool in a war against cannabis. It isnt fair on us that are suffering!

    Thanks again for posting mate and I hope to see you on CVSA soon.......and ofcourse anyone else who is reading this, join us there! :)
     
    Fully Melted likes this.
  16. leigh

    leigh New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Hi. I stumbled on this site after looking for more research on this subject.. I've watched someone first hand fight this for now 10 years. About every 3 mths because they always go back to smoking daily. Its nice to finally see people actually talking about it making it known. I'm sorry to say... The only way to make the symptoms go away totally for good is to quit. They (the symptoms) will come back. I feel the Drs brush it off because they have no prescription they can fill. They are working on coming up with a drug to help people to quit pot but they havn't done it yet.. Only a helpful one over seas that helps a little. Plus... SO MANY PEOPLE refuse to every blame pot for anything bad.. Its sad but if its making you sick.. You just have to quit and like cig smokers its very very very hard. xoxo
     
  17. leigh

    leigh New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Look what I found in an article saying that we should give this to kids to help with their ADHD and ADD...: "It’s actually the safest recreational, over-the counter or prescription drug in the world, never causing a single death. And it’s proven to be a remarkably effective medication for 50 different diseases including all the neurological ones listed above, plus cancer, nausea and vomiting including hyperemesis gravidarum of pregnancy (remember Princess Kate), chronic pain, arthritis, AIDS, Crohn’s Disease, anxiety, ADHD, depression, insomnia, etc."

    Do you see why they won't try to save the ones that are smoking it and getting sooooooo sick from it.. It would go against all their research. What Dr wants to really rebut that all? Its easier to just brush those who have been smoking it now for year not under "their" recommendation under the table. Now with everyone saying (including drs and some gov) that pot is now almost considered a wonder-drug that harms "NO ONE" could be a reason why more and more are starting to speak about this syndrome now. Because, they are allowing more and more to actually use it freely and also now more and more people will openly say..."Hey I smoke pot everyday, maybe thats why" where just a couple of years ago when a dr would ask "do you smoke pot" patients would normally say... "NO" because they were scared.

    But CHS is very real. It comes without warning and the only time it happens is when SOME people use pot very very often. The only time in 10 years that i've seen the effects go away for more then 2 years is when the smoking had stopped. When it started up again and went to daily usage, the symptoms came back ever couple of mths without notice in full force all over again. Just be careful. As far as I know if you do smoke and this had happened to you once then thats it. You will always have it. =-( Please all thank you for talking about this subject and please all take good care of yourselves.. xoxo

     
  18. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    815
    Maybe it's from low cannabinoid receptors from smoking too much, and bad diet. Cannabinoid receptors need certain fats, and minerals to stay in abundance in the body. Also, having too much metabolites will effect your receptors. Remember cannabinoids effect the whole body, and by taking in so much from an external source without eating right, and doing physical movement to keep the system from building up metabolites, knocking the receptors out of whack may be what is causing these issues. I don't know, but it most likely has something to do with the cannabinoid receptors.
     
    Enchantre and vape4life like this.
  19. CVS Sufferer

    CVS Sufferer Member

    Messages:
    10
    CHS is very real eh! Because you said so?

    Its not even a proven illness. What symptoms do you have that make up the cannabis hyperemesis diagnosis if you dont mind me asking? If you are just going to state the basic ones that are published in the abstracts and theories like cyclic vomiting, colicky pain and hot showers etc dont bother, they're wrong. Cyclic vomiting syndrome is a rare illness certainly not caused by cannabis. It has been getting confused due to threads like this lately and I post to explore symptoms and how they differ from cyclic vomiting in the hope to end this link. Here is a statement from a CVSA doctor on the matter -

    “Recently, there has been considerable controversy over the role of cannabis in these patients. While “cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome” has been touted as a new diagnosis, there does not appear to be sufficient data to implicate marijuana as a “cause” of CVS. In a recent review of 31 published cases, the average duration of marijuana use preceding onset of vomiting was just over 10 years; the long delay in presentation of symptoms following chronic marijuana use argues against cannabis being a cause for the vomiting. Also, long-term follow-up is lacking in case series of patients with “cannabinoid hyperemesis.” The acute administration of marijuana has been shown in animal studies to stop vomiting and cannabinoid agents such as dronabinol and nabilone have been used to treat nausea and vomiting due to chemotherapy. The effects of chronic marijuana use are poorly understood and whether marijuana use unmasks CVS is unclear; further prospective studies are warranted to address this issue. We currently recommend abstinence of marijuana while treating patients with CVS as this is a risk factor for nonresponse to conventional medications.”

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    So again, what are your symptoms that make up your diagnosis. Oh and by the way, before you say hot baths and showers help which is undoubted evidence.......hot baths are absolutely nothing to do with cannabis use. Many CVS sufferers who dont smoke cannabis utilise hot baths and showers in their treatment. There is medical research which proves why hot baths work.

    Sorry for what appears to be like jumping the gun but I post on a few threads like this and I get some very standard answers for people who KNOW cannabis hyperemesis is real so i respond to these standard answers first these days. I would like to delve deeper if you want? Its funny because, search for yourselves everyone, I have posted on quite a few of these threads and no one every comes back to discuss things in detail or get mad and start abusing me lol Hopefully you wont :)
     
    CentiZen likes this.
  20. CVS Sufferer

    CVS Sufferer Member

    Messages:
    10
    Hey Centizen,

    How are you getting on? Any better? Have you tried abstaining fully yet or are your symptoms gone?

    Just wondered how your getting on really. Your the one person I know who was diagnosed and also believes they have Cannabis Hyperemesis and more importantly is willing to discuss things further without getting defensive and abusive.

    Cheers
     
  21. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,737
    Location:
    America's Hat
    Well, to be honest I've sort of fallen back to my old ways, I'm vaping quite a bit and feeling fine still. I had one attack four weeks ago or so, but I don't know what triggered it. Honestly I enjoy marijuana enough to put up with the random attacks; if it so is the cause. But I just don't know. This whole situation is so confusing.
     
  22. vape4life

    vape4life Banned for life

    Messages:
    2,020
    More than the .3g daily you were saying before?
     
  23. Vomiter

    Vomiter New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Hello fuckcombustion.com

    I would like to say that I have not been diagnosed with either CVS or CHS by any doctor. I am just a suffer of random vomiting issues since 1999 when I was a 20 year old, and had been smoking for about seven years before that. I was in the hospital at that point for two weeks vomiting, stomach pain, unable to eat anything. The doctors did a lot of tests and were not able to find an answer. After exiting the hospital after the symptoms stopped I was refereed to a psychiatrist and prescribed Prozac because the doctors had no answers and decided it must be in my head. I declined to take an anti-depressant because I did not feel I was depressed. It was during the two weeks in the hospital that I discovered the hot showers as a form of relief from the pain and vomiting.

    My symptoms are as such. I am a mostly healthy individual. Many days I wake up with abdominal pain. Taking a hot shower in the morning often relaxes the pain and I can go on with my day as a normal person, but not always. Most of my vomiting episodes start with food, and more often than not restaurants. It will start with pain in my stomach that keeps growing until I start puking. After I vomit I might have a little relief from the pain for a short time then the cycle starts again. Episodes last anywhere from a few hours to weeks. The only relief I find in these episodes is with hot baths/showers. Although even they don't always help. I usually am able to manage the issue myself. Other times it gets so bad that I have to go to the ER. In the ER it is usually the same story time after time. They start with IV and try various anti-nausea meds that don't work, like I had already told them. Eventually they the give me some kind of opiate that helps relieve the pain and I start to calm down. Often times the doctors look at me like I am just an addict trying to get my fix. If that were the case there are easier and cheaper ways to go about that. After an episode I would become fearful of food, and marijuana would help me get over that hurdle and I would be able to start to eat normal again.

    I have been smoking pot since I was 13 and have been a daily user from 17 on, with few breaks in between. For the majority of the time I was smoking flowers. In the last few years I have mainly been smoking oils. The symptoms have been pretty consistent through-out. I would have an episode at least one to two times a month.

    After reading about CVS I believed that this is what I have. The symptoms and stories of others were just to similar to ignore. I had succumbed to the fact that there was no cure and it would just be something I would have to deal with the rest of my life. I have lost jobs from it and the quality of my life has been greatly diminished. I have always wanted to travel more, but fear of puking has prevented that.

    A few months ago a friend, who is a nurse, alerted me of the possibility that it could be pot related. I did not want to listen to it as it was my poison of choice. Then my brother found the Mayo Clinic study on it and sent it to me. It got me to question the possibility that it just might be the cause. So after Valentines day and having another episode after taking my girlfriend to a nice dinner I decided to do an experiment for my health and take a break from smoking and see if the issues would quit.

    So far I have gone 14 days without pot. Within the first few days I started waking up with no stomach pain, and have not had an episode since quitting. I know it is too soon to know for sure, but I can say that I have been feeling better. My plan is to go at least three months to see how things go. After that I plan on smoking again and see what happens. As much as I love pot I would rather be healthy, so a part of me hopes that CHS is real and that just by quitting (or cutting back) I can be normal.

    Well that's my story. Thanks for listening.
     
  24. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,737
    Location:
    America's Hat
    How heavily were you using before your "sabbatical'?
     
  25. Vomiter

    Vomiter New Member

    Messages:
    3
    I am not sure of amounts, but I was smoking dabs many times a day, smoke joints with friends, and vapping with my pen. I would say I have (had) a pretty high tolerance. Probably at least a gram of oil a day if not more. I have had an endless supply for a while so it is hard to say for sure.
     

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