Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome

hibeam

hibeam

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shredder said:
10 subjects, one using spice does not seem like an in depth study.
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Across the country we may be getting in depth studies on cannabis use the likes of which have never been seen before. Medical programs all have very precise health paper trails on patients in the respective health department data bases. I suspect this data collection and even possible commodification of it is a huge behind the scenes carrot for all professional organizations involved. What sucks is the patients are forced participants who do not get PAID, rather they pay like it is a privilege to be a lab rat.

I would like to know how many cases of CHS exist in which the sufferer used strictly home grown that was grown organically, to eliminate my suspicion of contamination, but I do believe in adverse reactions to ANYTHING.
 
shredder

shredder

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hibeam said:
Across the country we may be getting in depth studies on cannabis use the likes of which have never been seen before. Medical programs all have very precise health paper trails on patients in the respective health department data bases. I suspect this data collection and even possible commodification of it is a huge behind the scenes carrot for all professional organizations involved. What sucks is the patients are forced participants who do not get PAID, rather they pay like it is a privilege to be a lab rat.

I would like to know how many cases of CHS exist in which the sufferer used strictly home grown that was grown organically, to eliminate my suspicion of contamination, but I do believe in adverse reactions to ANYTHING.
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Depending on how they collect data, I seriously doubt a lot of studies accuracy. In my state few medical mj card holders tell their doctor about their mj use because it's held against them. As in no opioids if you use mj. So in many cases the patients know more about the medical benefits of cannabis than their medical doctor. Doctors are beholdent to their employers in this respect not their patients. And in non medical states I doubt very few tell their dr. So as a result collected data is really not accurate because of so many have much to lose just by being honest.
 
hibeam

hibeam

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shredder said:
Depending on how they collect data, I seriously doubt a lot of studies accuracy. In my state few medical mj card holders tell their doctor about their mj use because it's held against them. As in no opioids if you use mj. So in many cases the patients know more about the medical benefits of cannabis than their medical doctor. Doctors are beholdent to their employers in this respect not their patients. And in non medical states I doubt very few tell their dr. So as a result collected data is really not accurate because of so many have much to lose just by being honest.
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I generally agree with your observations. However, what we will get are lots more correlative studies, which are usually bullshit, like so many of the disease genetic marker studies are, but they may show better efficacy rates for conditions than we currently see. So, getting back to the OP now....

invertedisdead said:
The symptoms for terpene toxicity are very similar to CHS.
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This is something I was wondering about. Caryophyllene seems to really mess me up. I recognize its aroma/taste now so I can avoid a product that has too much re-added.
 
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shredder

shredder

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hibeam said:
I generally agree with your observations. However, what we will get are lots more correlative studies, which are usually bullshit, like so many of the disease genetic marker studies are, but they may show better efficacy rates for conditions than we currently see. So, getting back to the OP now....


This is something I was wondering about. Caryophyllene seems to really mess me up. I recognize its aroma/taste now so I can avoid a product that has too much re-added.
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The plant has bothered me the most is chem dawg and that is one of the two main terpenes in it. Myrcene is the other. So I guess your not alone.
 
C No Ego

C No Ego

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shredder said:
Neem oil is used in both toothpaste and cosmetics. I doubt it's a culprit, and have yet to see anything but conjecture.

Having said that, there are some growers that spray neem or neem derived products on flowers. A big no no in my book, but it happens, along with other even more dangerous pesticides on flowers. I would not recommend anyone to spray anything on flowers to be consumed. And if flowers have that funky neem oil smell, don't use them.

As mj usage becomes more main stream I'm sure we will get answers, but until then choose your sources of mj very carefully. And stick to organic if at all possible. Even though neem oil can be organic, and afaik spraying it on flowers is not illegal, so it's up to us as consumers to demand safe products, and for growers to make it so. I really doubt our federal govt. will protect us, and state laws vary wildly from solid law based on science to almost nothing and zero enforcement.
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looking into it the problem seems mostly to be related to smoking that neem oil cannabis... the smoking part seems to trigger the symptoms... @ least in the reports I've seen... Rastas and old time hippies= they are not vomiting everywhere and they smoke more than anyone period...
 
invertedisdead

invertedisdead

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C No Ego said:
looking into it the problem seems mostly to be related to smoking that neem oil cannabis... the smoking part seems to trigger the symptoms... @ least in the reports I've seen... Rastas and old time hippies= they are not vomiting everywhere and they smoke more than anyone period...
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I was kind of under the impression CHS is more of an issue for those dabbing and using vaporizers, as step 1 to flooding the ECS is to use more efficient delivery mechanisms (like vaping)
 
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C No Ego

C No Ego

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invertedisdead said:
I was kind of under the impression CHS is more of an issue for those dabbing and using vaporizers, as step 1 to flooding the ECS is to use more efficient delivery mechanisms (like vaping)
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over @ icmag all reports are smoking causing it... every report the person smoked.
high heat vaping could cause it too possibly? not sure really
 
invertedisdead

invertedisdead

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C No Ego said:
over @ icmag all reports are smoking causing it... every report the person smoked.
high heat vaping could cause it too possibly? not sure really
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Interesting, most of the reports I've read are from BHO dabbing, that's what made me research the effects of terpene toxicity and noticed the similar symptoms. Since smoking is a very poor form of preserving terpenes I was thinking this was more vaporizer related, though it seems there is still not much information in general on the topic.
 
C No Ego

C No Ego

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invertedisdead said:
Interesting, most of the reports I've read are from BHO dabbing, that's what made me research the effects of terpene toxicity and noticed the similar symptoms. Since smoking is a very poor form of preserving terpenes I was thinking this was more vaporizer related, though it seems there is still not much information in general on the topic.
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I have been seeing research showing how some of the terpenes have a longer half life than the cannabinoids and linger longer etc... that is why they make such good togglers / directors of the cannabimimetic activity

Also- Terpenes are compounded into Terpinoids when heated and or oxygenated / hydrolyzed and or catalyzed
 
hibeam

hibeam

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C No Ego said:
Rastas and old time hippies= they are not vomiting everywhere and they smoke more than anyone period
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This was my initial thought the very first time I read about chs a few years ago. I miss the seedy not too potent Northern Lights so many friends used to grow back in the 70s-80s.

Neem will not simply wash off a plant's foliage! I don't think growers are shampooing their plants as part of the finishing process.
 
C No Ego

C No Ego

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hibeam said:
This was my initial thought the very first time I read about chs a few years ago. I miss the seedy not too potent Northern Lights so many friends used to grow back in the 70s-80s.

Neem will not simply wash off a plant's foliage! I don't think growers are shampooing their plants as part of the finishing process.
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I'm sure if someone lit up neem on a doobie or dabbed NEEM oil LOL... they would have a toxic reaction...
 
C No Ego,
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NoUsername

New Member
Neem oil is not the cause of CHS. I started experiencing CHS symptoms almost 2 years ago. Never vomiting but certainly coming close and barely eating anything for a few months. I'd lost a concerning amount of weight so after I realized what was going on I stopped smoking for a while.

I've tried smoking again. I've smoked weed that I know wasn't grown with neem. I've dabbed. I've vaped (pax 1) Within a few minutes of consumption I feel nausea, maybe mild or maybe severe. Something to note, I also have scoliosis that seems to be getting pretty bad and weed worsens the symptoms of it. Every person I've talked to who shares my symptoms also has significant back problems, so I think the two are related.

But neem is not the culprit here, cannabinoids are. Maybe terpenes, although I know basically nothing about them. But are terpenes added to spice? Because you can also get CHS from spice.
 
grokit

grokit

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I don't know anything about neem>chs. But I do know neem can be very irritating. I was using it as part of a holistic anti-parasite/fungal protocol, along with a couple of other herbal products. Finally I had to drop the neem part for good. It may have been useful at some point but in general, I don't recommend it.
 
hibeam

hibeam

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NoUsername said:
Neem oil is not the cause of CHS. I started experiencing CHS symptoms almost 2 years ago. Never vomiting but certainly coming close and barely eating anything for a few months. I'd lost a concerning amount of weight so after I realized what was going on I stopped smoking for a while.

I've tried smoking again. I've smoked weed that I know wasn't grown with neem. I've dabbed. I've vaped (pax 1) Within a few minutes of consumption I feel nausea, maybe mild or maybe severe. Something to note, I also have scoliosis that seems to be getting pretty bad and weed worsens the symptoms of it. Every person I've talked to who shares my symptoms also has significant back problems, so I think the two are related.

But neem is not the culprit here, cannabinoids are. Maybe terpenes, although I know basically nothing about them. But are terpenes added to spice? Because you can also get CHS from spice.
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Thanks for sharing your details!

(I have scoliosis diagnosed back in 1972. CBD isolate when taken orally AMPLIFIES any pain I am already experiencing, but topically it is a good temporary anti-inflammatory. I know from experience that I need to up my daily magnesium supplement any day I use cannabis or else I get Charlie horse cramps in almost any part of my body, even ribs.)

Your story convinces me there must be something then about the PRIMARY constituents of cannabis. Sonow I still wonder about gut bacteria, if not effected by neem then by cannabis.
https://www.civilized.life/articles/why-marijuanas-effect-on-your-poop-affects-your-brain/
 
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C No Ego

C No Ego

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cannabinoids and bile acids https://duckduckgo.com/?q=cannabinoids+and+bile+acids&t=ffcm&atb=v62-6__&ia=web

those bile acids are some of the first acids that grab the cannabinoids and digest them. the initial mucous production ETC...

NoUsername said:
Neem oil is not the cause of CHS. I started experiencing CHS symptoms almost 2 years ago. Never vomiting but certainly coming close and barely eating anything for a few months. I'd lost a concerning amount of weight so after I realized what was going on I stopped smoking for a while.

I've tried smoking again. I've smoked weed that I know wasn't grown with neem. I've dabbed. I've vaped (pax 1) Within a few minutes of consumption I feel nausea, maybe mild or maybe severe. Something to note, I also have scoliosis that seems to be getting pretty bad and weed worsens the symptoms of it. Every person I've talked to who shares my symptoms also has significant back problems, so I think the two are related.

But neem is not the culprit here, cannabinoids are. Maybe terpenes, although I know basically nothing about them. But are terpenes added to spice? Because you can also get CHS from spice.
Click to expand...

talking with old timey smokers they only see the problem in relation to Neem so far... CHS was just not really heard of until recent times... or very rarely were people vomiting when using cannabis over the years... but some people it could just effect them that way... maybe an allergic reaction is my opinion... severe allergic reactions... and too- the type of cannabis and which actives are in there etc...
 
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grokit

grokit

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Cannabis flowers can have fungus, inhaling fungal spores along with cannabinoids can blow up many of the symptoms of chs, and many people are more sensitive to fungal pathogens than they realize. Just a few thoughts that taken together may explain a few things. I'm glad legal markets screen for fungi now.
 
chris 71

chris 71

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I dont know i was kinda shocked when i seen it i have no idea weather CHS is from actully canabinoids or not , but that would be a shitty way to die i would think puking and retching and dehydration till you die ?
 
chris 71,
Baron23

Baron23

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chris 71 said:
So now there even saying death by CHS

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29768651/
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Wow, and that's a scientific report? It does not address at all by what mechanism of CHS caused these deaths.

Its more like "they had CHS, they died, so they must have died from CHS"

Did they die from dehydration, cardiac issue, neural issue, liver shut down...just WTF is supposed to have killed these people.

And this is in the Journal of Forensic Science....so, wtf is the forensics?
 
C No Ego

C No Ego

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Baron23 said:
Wow, and that's a scientific report? It does not address at all by what mechanism of CHS caused these deaths.

Its more like "they had CHS, they died, so they must have died from CHS"

Did they die from dehydration, cardiac issue, neural issue, liver shut down...just WTF is supposed to have killed these people.

And this is in the Journal of Forensic Science....so, wtf is the forensics?
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DING DING that bell man... how is the mechanism of Death? that undeniable bio-chemical identifier taking down an entire man and all of his systems...
 
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