Cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by Nosferatu, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Pyrocity420

    Pyrocity420 New Member

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    So i am not new to vaping I actually just recently bought a Firefly 2, was using it for wax more then herb though, but prior to that I had a Gpen Elite and before that a Gpro I usually do about 390 degrees maybe if i do a lower temp? I do plan on taking at least a month break and i did stop for a week last week and then smoked again this Wednesday. after about 2-3 days with no weed my appetite came back and I WAS SO HUNGRY i could never have enough food it felt like but after I smoked a couple days ago i did have some abdominal pain again, have not really eaten in the past 2 days because eating makes my stomach feel more crampy then before even if i feel hungry as soon as i eat it hurts worse then it already is. I am hoping maybe lower temps will help me in the future have you noticed that lower temps vape give less abdominal pain. this Friday i ended up smoking half a blunt and a Pinner before class. I have been to doctor since the summer they have no idea the Gaestro doctor gave me IBS meds but I did not want to take them because i really don't want to take that for the rest of my life. So thats why im going to quit weed and see if it helps but the first week break def helped. If i do end up having CHS if i take Months break will i be able to vape again at lower temps? I really would hate to put weed to the side this is KILLING ME! I also have lost a lot of weight since i never feel hungry when i was smoking/vaping daily. i was 130 around June and now i'm 116!!! Sorry for the long paragraph BTW and thanks for such a quick Reply!!!

    I did take a week break and felt better but I'm going to do a complete detox and do as you suggested with low temp vaping. and I would not feel bad about stopping would just SUCK!! I have not had any of these problems until the summer when it started, I ended up smoking and I got REALLY pale felt like i was going to throw up and EXTREME abdominal pain and was very sweaty this has only happened once more the beginning of this month I also replied to the other message above which gives some more details. Thanks for the quick reply!

    I also started smoking last summer
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2016
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  2. newVaper420

    newVaper420 Vapor Enthusiast

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    1,424
    No problem. Maybe the wax is too strong. Use flowers. I think that's what happened with me and the wax
     
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  3. Pyrocity420

    Pyrocity420 New Member

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    I was thinking that as well but it is not like the pain started right after i started vaping wax it started during the summer when i was just smoking and vaping the flower im thinking the wax def made it worse. its just a real bummer :( The one thing i enjoyed I might not be able to do anymore which sucks!
     
  4. Garysfriend

    Garysfriend Active Member

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    28
    So a bit of an update here. (to save anyone the trouble of going back a page or two) I last posted in April of this year. Quick summary, starting in Nov/Dec of 2015 I thought I was starting to get symptoms of CHS. Never vomited, but for every night I smoked, I'd have intense nausea and some upper stomach pain the next morning and typically most of the next day until the later afternoon/evening hours. Well, I abstained for 2 months, tried to clean up my diet as much as possible, took some supplements like fish oil, vit B, magnesium, and had a vacation in Jamaica (end of march/april 2016) and started up again there. Had no issues in Jamaica and when I returned to the states, I slowly ramped up again to daily usage. Only in the evening, only flower, only vaporizing, and almost always less than .1g. I didn't have any issues at all... until this week. I was starting to see the same symptoms again.. waking up in the middle of the night with pain, fullness in the gut, nausea, bloating, etc.

    I'm pissed. While I don't rely on it for any diagnosed medicinal purposes, it gives me something to look forward to every evening, after I get my shit done, and I think overall it makes me a more level, happier, person. (Wife agrees). I don't feel like I'm abusing it, given the amount I use (these days less than .05g a day). So of course I'm jumping back into researching everything I can because I refuse to believe that some people just develop an allergy, or intolerance, or genetically can't handle cannabis, etc. I for one proved this wrong last April, as I went from feeling sick as shit any time I vaped, to being able to get back into it, just by taking a break and taking care of myself.

    So today I stumbled upon a study stating that cannabis lowers stomach acid. So the wife and I went out for sushi tonight for dinner, and when we got back, I proceeded to start experimenting with hydro chloride acid pills. (I had read that if you don't have a stomach acid problem, 1 of these will bring about acid reflux type symptoms... burning, etc). Well, I took about 1250mg of HCL (5 pills) tonight... and feel fine. My wife took one and had to take a tums. (She doesn't use cannabis).

    Could this be it? (at least for some of us)? I don't want to vape tonight, as I was nauseous all day today until about 5pm, but I plan to tomorrow night. I'm wondering if I vape, and then take a lot HCL, will I still have the same issues?

    Summary: Last november, nausea every day after I'd vape. Took 2 months off, went to Jamaica for a week (combusting) returned to the states for ~6months of vaping flower only and problems are returning. Tried a stomach acid test tonight by taking 1250mg of hydro chloride acid and felt no bad effects, meaning my stomach is low in acid.
     
  5. nickdanger

    nickdanger Well-Known Member

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    180
    Location:
    Fly-over Country
    @Garysfriend, I just happened to stumble on this thread and noticed your reference to HCL capsules. I used these for awhile when I had digestive issues involving my gall bladder (not cannabis related). I'm not sure how old you are, but age supposedly causes stomach acid to be lower in many people, myself included. I started taking the capsules with meals and my problems resolved. I occasionally have to take one when I eat a large meal, such as when we go out to eat. It was a miracle for me.

    Since I"m prone to lower stomach acid, I will definitely keep the possible cannabis connection in mind if I start to see symptoms again and up my HCL intake. IT will be interesting to see if this resolves your problems.
     
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  6. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

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    I haven't had a problem with CHS since mid august. All I have done is alter the way I eat, slow and easy, and I stop the minute I feel full at all. Now this is by no means scientific but I think if you are suffering from CHS the first thing to attempt is to not get nauseated and vomiting started in the first place. Since August I have avoided any food related issues by simply not doing things that could cause nausea in the first place. I feel there will come a day where I will have another episode but so far so good and fingers crossed.
     
  7. Garysfriend

    Garysfriend Active Member

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    @nickdanger thanks for the response. @steama, that's good to hear, and it seems, (again for some of us, not everyone suffering from CHS) that diet and lifestyle have a lot to do with this. I'm working on cleaning up my diet (which I did the first time around) and am already seeing some improvements. I did eat chili on Saturday but went slow and had more HCL as I ate. Also had quite a lot of beer... buddy's bday party.

    No weird pains that night and only some minor pressure and discomfort the next morning that went away quickly.

    I realize that I never got really sick like some of you, and I'm aware that this may not even be CHS, but really bad GERD or some stomach issue that is only exasperated by cannabis. I'll continue to try/experiment with clean eating (as much as possible) and HCL.
     
  8. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

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    2,939
    Holy shit you will know it if you have CHS. CHS is not some minor discomfort or indigestion. It comes on like a fucking freight train and this shit lasts for 12 hours or more of full on intractable hardcore nausea and vomiting that the best nausea medication does not even touch, the only thing that helps at all but barely are very hot baths. At about hour 10 of vomiting and dry heaves you sincerely want to die, but hang on, it's only a few hours more if you're lucky.

    :puke:
     
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  9. chris 71

    chris 71 Well-Known Member

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    241
    did any of you guys who have experienced this remember if there were some signs leading up to the first time you got sick ? did you notice a change in the effects of your usage before hand ? i mean like maybe feeling sick after using for a while before you had the full blown puking ?
     
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  10. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

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    2,939
    I noticed nothing at all on the cannabis use side of things - it's always the same for me in that regard. Symptoms for an attack often occurred this way for me. Perfectly healthy, I would have just sat down to a hamburger or say a steak dinner. Sometimes I was a little enthusiastic as into eating. Two, three, or four bites into the meal cold sweats would cover me head to toe and I began to feel extreme nausea like a 'shipboard motion sickness' feeling. When I say it comes on like a freight train I am not exaggerating in the slightest. It is as if I was having some sort of serious anaphylactic shock or an allergic reaction to food I only had a few bites of just minutes ago. I have to leave the table because I am about to begin hardcore vomiting on a continual basis for over 12 hours. Taking what seems to be like 50 hot baths during this time because it is the only thing that eases the attack at all but only momentary. Anti-nausea medication do not ease this nausea no matter how many pellets you stick up your ass, it just doesn't matter. I have ended up in the ER a few times and they had no answers but that is not the case anymore. Now, everyone has a clue about CHS it seems. Hot baths for relief are the behavior that give CHS away. Hot baths for relief of nausea are not considered normal behavior apparently.

    :2c:
     
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  11. chris 71

    chris 71 Well-Known Member

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    241
    thanks steama , i only ask because lately every time i vape or smoke i feel a little sick . and after reading some of this thread i was starting to wonder if i could possibly be starting to get it .
    but i am ill from Graves disease and im taking meds for that , and of coarse side effects from the meds are being sick with nausea and possibly vomiting , and a whole host of other fun stuff as well plus . the disease itself causes one to not be well either .

    i cant say that a hot showers is either appealing or something that i do at all but its just that i seem to be having a reaction as of late everytime i vape or smoke . so i thought about this thread . but i think in my case there are just to many other things going on to think it could be this ... i havent actully even vomited in years like i cant even remeber the last time , it could be decades lol. i just wondered if this was something that maybe started with noticing a sick feeling after use for a while before the full blown vomiting
     
  12. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

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    2,939
    There was no pre warning sick feeling for me or any other warning - nothing. CHS doesn't just creep up on you gradually. It hits you like you accidently stepped out in front of a fucking bus. The hot shower thing is a strong physical compulsion not some idea. You feel compelled to immerse yourself in very hot water and for some reason it momentarily relieves the nausea. There is speculation that a cannabinoid build-up may be affecting the hypothalamus, because it controls body temperature. I haven't delved into the science part too much but I am happy to share what I have experienced.

    Good-luck with your vaping feeling sick thing - I hope you can figure it out but from where I sit it does not sound like CHS, but we are all different. All I can say is to listen to what your body is telling you and keep asking questions.
     
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  13. Garysfriend

    Garysfriend Active Member

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    28
    Well that's part of the problem... I don't know. With all the bullshit floating around the internet, very little research, very little definitive data, etc... I don't know what's wrong with me. A quote I read on reddit once comes to mind and goes something like this, "This is just another thing for an already paranoid stoner to worry about." And that's true.

    While I'm not a doctor, I'm certain I don't have ulcers (the HCL pills would definitely aggravate that, and I feel better with HCL). And when I have told my doc about stomach issues (leaving out the cannabis) the next step was a scope. I don't want to spend the money on that or put myself through that when I know laying off the herb a few days will cure me.

    So there's a very small percentage of people who get violently ill. steama is one of them. Then there are others like Chris 71 (whether or not its his other meds or the cannabis), who seems to be affected in a very similar manner to me. I haven't vomited, yet it seems that no matter what, the day after I vape, I'm rather nauseous for most of the following day. I don't feel the need to shower, and showers don't really seem to help. They feel good, but that's about it.

    So I'm going to take a break, which sucks because I just picked up an underdog (which I love by the way). If this is similar to what I went through last March/April, a few weeks should clear things up. The frustrating thing is the cause. Is it cannabis directly causing this? Or Cannabis exasperating another condition (low stomach acid, gastritis, too much bad stomach bacteria).

    steama I'm sorry you get so violently ill, and it comes on with no warning. I guess I'm lucky that I do get some warning... although I've never pushed it to see what will happen if I continue to vape with these symptoms. Maybe nausea is the worst of it? and for whatever I have... it won't lead to vomiting? I have a regular full time job, along with other family duties and such where I don't want to risk seeing what could happen. With the limited knowledge I'd rather play it safe.

    God I wish our stupid govt would pull their heads out of their asses and allow research.
     
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  14. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    Interesting topic indeed. I'm still playing catchup on this thread.

    My sister has a very violent reaction to even small amounts of smoked/vaped meds. Some of this is strain specific as sativa is worse for her as well as anything with pine or lemon terps. Edibles she is completely tolerant of; no bad reaction at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
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  15. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

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    2,939
    What makes you think you have CHS? I am curious because you do not have any telling symptoms as I understand CHS. I would see a physician about it. It is a very interesting problem indeed.
     
  16. Garysfriend

    Garysfriend Active Member

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    28
    Steams, I dont' know if I have CHS, I don't vomit and showers do little for me. However, based on what I've read on the subject, there are apparently 3 phases (and I'm summarizing here), and I'm thinking I may be in the first phase:

    -morning nausea, loss of appetite, mild stomach pain

    -puking your brains out for hours to days at a time, sweating, intense thirst, hot showers, intense pain

    -recovery where things appear to be "normal" again.

    Then the cycle repeats. I wonder if I'm in the first phase and just never go past that, because of the amount I use, and the fact that realize something is off and I stop.

    I've enjoyed the herb near daily for 10+ years. But not heavy. Almost always less than .1g a day, vaped. Always in the evening.

    Currently, if I vape, I have issues the next day. If I don't vape, within a few days everything is fine again. I'm currently experiencing this for the 2nd time. My first time was 7 months ago. At that time I took a 6 week break and then resumed as described above. I was fine until a week or two ago and things started up again.

    Of course, this could not be the issue at all. Cannabis can mess with your head, and with the stigma, "horror stories" all over Reddit and the rest of the web, and this condition itself, I realize it could be something else and I'm just being paranoid. I am rather certain though that somehow... either directly or indirectly, cannabis has something to do with it.
     
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  17. chris 71

    chris 71 Well-Known Member

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    241
    Well , i have went the last few days not having any cannabis till after 4 pm and today i had one of my spells without any cannabis involved . so im thinking in my case its probably not this .

    I also think there are really to many unknowens to really diagnose anybody with this . to call it CHS is really streaching it , till we have more scientific data showing that cannabiniods can really effect somone like this . how can we know that it is not something eles . possibly the chemical nutrients used to grow the plant . or maybe exposure to something eles related to the prodution , or even chlorophyll from improper curing or heck maybe even harvesting imature plants or something . could the cannabis flower need to be ripened simalar to ripined fruits as in if you eat to much unripened strawberries or water melon ect ect might make us sick ?

    Seems these days everybody is after the highest thc numbers maybe people are chopping the plants too soon , maybe for a propper ripened flower , its best to have some degregation and harvest after the peak levels are reached . in a simalar way to fruits tasting beter and not making us sick wen properly ripened
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2016
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  18. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    733
    This is way too wild. I can't believe this is even a thing. I've never experienced such a thing before. I hope I never do. I've been sick for about a week. Naseous and weak. But I've never thrown up. Worst part is by the evening I feel as if nothing is wrong.

    Back on topic here, if this is really a thing what are we suppose to do? Stop vaping?
     
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  19. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    I don't know enough to answer the question; could this be a Terpenes issue?

    EDIT:

    Crap, don't mind me, I already mentioned Terps. Also as mentioned before: krazy person with TBI, PTSD, and other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  20. ginolicious

    ginolicious Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    733
    I would assume for someone to be affected by such a thing they would need to be vaping at least a gram a day no?
     
  21. Glass004

    Glass004 Consumer Advocate

    The first time I got it 15 years ago, I had been smoking vast quantities of really bad dope cuz back then it was all we could get. A significant combustion history is usual, sudden increases of chronic smoking can start your body's CHS process. Greater quantities of toxic cannabinoids produced with smoking are the primary cause. However there will be many triggers from stress to fatty foods that affect an individuals CHS onset.
    It comes on out of the blue like food
    Poisoning, usually first thing in the morning You will wake up feeling really off. Maybe have a poop, then nausea slams you.
    Stop smoking. Vaping and edibles are the safest way to consume herb.
    My son just had his first attack after smoking a lot of DAB. I think the potency of cannabinoids smoked have a role in the onset of CHS as well. Now really potent medical herb is common, there is more CHS. My son is sucking on an old Iolite vap now, he is convinced.
    One more thing, once your body starts reacting to combusted cannabinoids, it only gets more sensitive to them.
     
  22. BD9

    BD9 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    932
    Location:
    The Devil's Lettuce Patch
    Just thinking out loud........

    I wonder if this could be a chemical reaction from heated parts of the materials from which vapes are made. No matter how safe these materials are considered, off gassing may be a possibility. Maybe?
    Whether it's bleach or what ever chemicals are used in rolling papers to oil used in manufacturing vapes, or off gassing from warmed/heated metals, plastics and even wood in the vape are toxic when inhaled.
    Even if these materials are separated from the air path is it 100% separation?
    Could it be pesticides or mold in the cannabis?

    As I've gotten older I seem to have more allergies and more severe histamine responses to things I've been in contact with for years that have never bothered me before.
    I feel there are too many variables and further research should be done this this syndrome.

    I do wish the best to all of you that are suffering from this.
     
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  23. syrupy

    syrupy Authorized Buyer

    Messages:
    2,487
    I doubt it's from heated material? There is so much diversity in materials for the different vapes, it seems that all sufferers of CHS would be exposed to the exact same chemicals. Now, if everybody with CHS used Volcanos...then I'd be in on the theory. Also, people have been combusting for a long time in devices made of glass, various woods and metals. Why'd it take this long for CHS to appear? I have no answer, your guess it as good as mine!

    I think the people in this thread are doing the right thing-- experiment by isolating various factors (one at a time) and observe the outcomes. Sounds like reducing/eliminating vaping and dietary changes are helping some.
     
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  24. herbivore21

    herbivore21 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,085
    This is very interesting. I did notice reclaim inside a dab rig once hanging off of the inside of the titanium e-nail base got some rock solid black residue building up in it. It was hard like shatter, but when dabbed on a hot nail - DID NOT READILY MELT!

    It very slowly partially melted but this suspected polymerization byproduct gave me the most intense headache even though it barely produced vapor and stayed mostly in the same form/color when superheated on a nail. It also made me feel quite nauseous but did not cause vomiting because I noticed it was weird stuff and stopped inhaling after a second when it didn't melt (I just thought it was typical reclaim originally, it looked sorta like it but it felt much more solid than reclaim usually does).

    I wonder if Hyperemesis may emerge as a side effect of exposure to similar polymerization byproducts from cannabis smoke/vapor over time?
     
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  25. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    1,147
    Vape pen coil atomizers certainly come to mind.
     
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