Brexit - The Great British EU Dilema

[kellya86]

I am very happy with this decision, this was much needed and we will end up stronger for it....

And the cherry on top is saying bye bye to the lying, pig fucking prick, that is Cameron...

Nothing is gonna get more difficult for us, it was all lies to scare us. People don't trade with us out of some misguided loyalty or to do us a favour, that's ridiculous, as was most of the remain argument, people trade with is because it's in their interest. That won't change...

 

[1DMF]

What I think will be interesting is to see how many other EU members call a referendum.

Holland is already calling for one as are a few others. Is this the end of the current EU and the start of a new European Conglomerate?

Cameron going was definitely icing on the cake, but does that mean Boris could be PM?

 

[°k]

Having the cake and eating it? Why a country that doesn't "want" to be part of the EU should keep the benefits of being part of it?

All this is making me feel even stronger about leaving UK, hopefully I'll be able to do so soon...

 

[looney2nz]

Inspired by the USA elections thread, I did a search and couldn't find a thread for Brexit, so thought I'd start one.

I'm interested in what FCer's from around the globe think and how they see UK's position in the EU and whether you actually think it matters.

I'll start by showing my hand :- I vote leave. I am not European, I am English and I don't need to be in some 'old boys club' to be friends with the rest of Europe. I want control over our borders and I want people I vote for making the laws that govern me.

There should be a global trade agreement, not some BS European one, and giving priority to people just because they are in the EU is racists and prejudice towards the rest of the world.

I fear that means you are ripe for TTIP to fill that 'bill' Corporatocracy starts to show it's hand

Now that the vote appears to be in, and 'leave' has won by a simple majority... the immediate effects aren't too good, watching the steep drops in financial markets around the globe.
Cameron has resigned. Trying to remember where that would leave Corbyn (who I preferred from reading about him and his campaign).
Long term, I dunno... hard for me to parse out, too much of my processing power has been directed to BS detection in the U.S. campaigns

Which raises an interesting question, is a simple majority enough to hinge such decisions on?
For things like this I think we most often see them structured to require a 2/3 majority in the U.S. and it's individual states.
The danger being that flip-flopping decisions on this scale could be disastrous.

That said, I'll be curious to see what happens with Ireland, and Scotland to begin with.
Oh yeah, and the Netherlands too.

 

[1DMF]

If I can't have my cake and eat it, then there is no point in having the cake, as cake is for eating

@°k Why does this make you want to leave? What has changed so much from what made you want to come here in the first place?

It would be sad if there was a mass exodus of Europeans just because of the vote.

 

[looney2nz]

I personally don't give a shit.

But you can forget about any type of relaxation of UK drug laws if we leave the EU. (Or any law for that matter)

You can expect more dictator politicians and royalists.

I'm working class British.
Not English, Irish, Welsh or Scottish.

As such I will continue to vote Labour at all elections and support my local politicians.

Most people are voting leave based on a hatred of immigration.

Imho this country will fall apart without them as I can't think of anyone more work shy or more of a burden to the welfare system then the indigenous people of Britain.

Edit: my opinion is based on 15 years working in the public healthcare system.

Another 'ripple' effect from Bush, Cheney and friends Keerist!
It's doubtful there would be such a stream of refugees without them destabilizing the whole fucking region

I fear you are right tho. What they are doing to the NHS is effin' criminal
So now they will pay less attention to the successes of Portugal, and keep 'drugs' as the kick ball for the politicians?

 

[°k]

It would be sad if there was a mass exodus of Europeans just because of the vote.

I highly doubt such thing would happen.

As for your question about me wanting to leave:
I grew up as a kid believing Europe was a great thing, thinking it was all the people coming together, sharing something. I realized getting older that it was mainly an economical thing but somehow in me there is still this feeling of being European.
Now it feels to me that half of the British people have rejected that (it always stroke me how the people here were proud of not fully being part of the EU but I gave it to me meeting a few twats, yes twats because the reasons they were giving and comments they were making clearly qualified them as such in my book as I have zero tolerance towards racism/xenophobism). I'm already being rejected here for other reasons, mainly how I look, but this adds to it. I never really wanted to come here in the first place but life made it so I did and I really tried to make the best of it, now that I don't have a job here any more I just want to leave, get all my taxes back (even though it'll be a pain and I'll have to pay them in France then) and never come back.
Don't get me wrong, I've met nice people in this country, they just can't outweigh the negative perception I have of it now.

 

[1DMF]

It's a shame you feel this way. Though you will find it hard to find a true English person that calls themselves European. We aren't, never have been, even when invaded by Europe. I'm Norman English, not Norman European

It seems Junker has started already... : http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-crisis-britain-votes-leave-eu-european-union

He's one of the reasons UK wanted to leave in the first place, the guy is a complete ass hole. It is this "you're either in the club or your our sworn enemy" attitude by Junker and his mates, that has pushed UK to leave.

So now Germany, France, Italy are going to rally together to show solidarity, hmmm, why does that sound familiar?

 

[HellsWindStaff]

Curious to the age of those who voted for each respectively. Only asking because I was talking to my dad about it and he mentioned that he thought the older generation primarily voted to leave? As they are fed up with a system that doesn't/didn't help them?

I find it interesting how bad the polls were wrong. I was looking at US odds and I could of bet on this for a FAT payday.....odds were much worse than Trump winning....hindsight 20/20 I guess lol

 

[°k]

It's a shame you feel this way

What I think is a shame is that 52% of a country is bringing the other 48% down and will mess up the situation for 27 other countries in the process.

 

[kellya86]

What I think is a shame is that 52% of a country is bringing the other 48% down and will mess up the situation for 27 other countries in the process.

That's a matter of opinion based on very little, if any, evidence....

A lot of people will feel this is the saviour of our failing, struggling country...

 

[1DMF]

hat I think is a shame is that 52% of a country is bringing the other 48% down and will mess up the situation for 27 other countries in the process.

You could argue the same for the Scottish referendum, it was a similar narrow victory, but that is how a democratic referendum works. Each vote is equal and the side with the most wins.

Europe needed to change, we aren't the only country to think this, we asked for change, Junker and his cronies stuck two fingers up at us, so we left.

As @kellya86 says, not everyone thinks it's a bad thing leaving, more people think it's a good idea than bad, it also will depend on how hell bent Junker and his fascists are at hurting the UK for their decision. I guess only time will tell.

 

[DrHermman]

Lets hope we can create a trade agreement that doesn't stop you buying our products and us yours, I love visiting Madrid to watch the Red Bull X-Fighters FMX while munching some seriously tasty Patata Bravas!

Love reading that man, glad you enjoy it here! And I hope you can keep coming anytime you want

But... I have to say that I also understand this @ºk statement:

Why a country that doesn't "want" to be part of the EU should keep the benefits of being part of it?

From a political point of view, probably any future trade agreement the EU signs with the UK won't be as good as the one we just lost. Obviously the strong exporting countries that remain in the EU have to get some advantages, and I find this to be fair.

From a business point of view, I'm sure we will keep buying from EU partners as there are no customs fees nor exchange rates, but I suppose we will only buy from UK if product price is inferior compared to other EU alternatives.

For example, last year my dad bought a half a million € machine from UK; he bought it from you guys cause you got the technology and it was a fair price. If the germans would've made the same machine for a better price, we would've got it from them. That's how business work.

Obviously with this new situation, when buying a product in UK I'll have to think not only in the exchange rate (that already made it more expensive to work with you, and was/is a PITA), but I'll have to think also in the customs fees... Making it even harder for me to deal with you.

It's all about the cash, no loyalty as @kellya86 said.

What can you do to solve this and keep exporting to EU? New trade agreements? More R&D so you keep producing innovative products? Lowering prices so you attract money from EU businessmen?

I don't know!

What I do know is that it's definitely your problem to deal with now, as I know I (and any other buyer) will keep importing stuff at the best price I can find.

Curious to the age of those who voted for each respectively. Only asking because I was talking to my dad about it and he mentioned that he thought the older generation primarily voted to leave? As they are fed up with a system that doesn't/didn't help them

Found this news from the Telegraph, really interesting data...
EU referendum: How the results compare to the UK's educated, old and immigrant populations

Peace!

 

[°k]

That's a matter of opinion based on very little, if any, evidence....

I think a 52/48% election is quite the evidence of the disagreement there is but I'd like to know what your evidence is to say the opposite.

As for the situation for the rest of the European countries, I highly doubt the city will make any diplomatic effort. Do I have evidence for that? No, it's my feeling but I'd be very surprised of the opposite as the financial powers are more into screwing up the people for their profit than improving things, cf Greece.

What I think this has started is a renewed energy in the fight between UK and the rest of the EU from an economical point of view. Can this really end up well for everybody? Who are usually the ones losing that kind of battle? The rich people pulling strings, managing their interests or the ones that are already being exploited regardless of what country they're living in?

@kellya86 I believe this is just a waste, this is the opinion I'm entitled to and while I can understand you're happy about the result I'd still like you to have the decency to argument your point when you claim that my opinion is BS.

 

[1DMF]

My biggest concern with the result so far is not what the EU thinks, but if it helps put Trump in the White House : http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...and-hillary-clinton-president-obama/86329036/

 

[kellya86]

@°k

Maybe you misunderstood...

I wasn't disputing the percentages, I was disputing the fact you said it would bring the country down and mess up Europe...

You have no evidence to support that....

 

[DrHermman]

I think a 52/48% election is quite the evidence of the disagreement there is but I'd like to know what your evidence is to say the opposite.

As for the situation for the rest of the European countries, I highly doubt the city will make any diplomatic effort. Do I have evidence for that? No, it's my feeling but I'd be very surprised of the opposite as the financial powers are more into screwing up the people for their profit than improving things, cf Greece.

What I think this has started is a renewed energy in the fight between UK and the rest of the EU from an economical point of view. Can this really end up well for everybody? Who are usually the ones losing that kind of battle? The rich people pulling strings, managing their interests or the ones that are already being exploited regardless of what country they're living in?

@kellya86 I believe this is just a waste, this is the opinion I'm entitled to and while I can understand you're happy about the result I'd still like you to have the decency to argument your point when you claim that my opinion is BS.

I can totally get your point. Time will tell if this decision will make a difference.

What I believe is it would be the same. The factual powers are already winning and fucking the rest of us in the ass...

Would UK remaining in the EU have changed this?

I don't think so, as the EU is ruled by the same kind of assholes that rule the city, and they also love to stick it in the ass of the weak (ie:Greece...).

Even with the opinion I have already stated here, I am sad too of them leaving...
When we moved to Europe with my family (southamerican migrants here) we loved the idea we could travel, study or work anywhere without problems once we got the spanish nationality. And we also felt that european feeling you talked about. This is obviously a step back in that road.

But what the EU has also taught me (specially in the last 10 years) is that it really needs to change a lot if we want it to be important in making the world a better place. Sadly I think it's not working in that direction. We need more class consciousness, and realising who works for us and who doesn't.

Hope you find a job and happiness wherever you want, UK or EU. And I hope politics don't change the image you have of a country's people...

Peace!

 

[°k]

@°k

Maybe you misunderstood...

I wasn't disputing the percentages, I was disputing the fact you said it would bring the country down and mess up Europe...

You have no evidence to support that....

You believe my point is not valid, there's a difference. I'm using the % as an indicator of what people want (which I believe is correct but stop me again if I'm misunderstanding or making things up without evidence) and by bringing down I mean taking them on a path they don't want. Should the result have been the opposite it'd have still been a shame as I think it's sad to see people being forced into something they don't want.
As for messing up Europe, you're right, I have no evidence as it hasn't happened yet and maybe I'll be pleasantly wrong. I just think we're stronger when united.

You could argue the same for the Scottish referendum, it was a similar narrow victory, but that is how a democratic referendum works. Each vote is equal and the side with the most wins.

I think for important matters there could be 2 turns or double majority, imo a 52/48% is like a 50/50%.

 

[1DMF]

I think for important matters there could be 2 turns or double majority, imo a 52/48% is like a 50/50%.

If you look at the map, and remove Scotland (something they want anyway) - it's overwhelming - LEAVE!

England & Wales want out - not sure what NI is all about, they want to be part of the UK but not part of Ireland, but also part of the EU and Ireland is in the EU - very confusing. I stay well clear of Irish politics, it makes no sense to me.

As for Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon is starting to piss everyone off, and if Scotland want to remove themselves from 1,000's of years of history and culture with the UK and be ruled and governed by federal Europe, I wish them well and say 'bon voyage', coz I'm sick of listening to the winging bitch!

 

[HellsWindStaff]

Why should UK care about the other 27 countries? Genuinely curious. I don't understand how it's a shame that the other 27 countries now won't get to benefit from the UK.......did the UK benefit greatly from the other countries? I'm not familiar with EU politics but I was kind of under the impression it was a pretty one way street which was a reason they wanted to leave. Correct me if I'm wrong im admittedly unfamiliar.

I'm pretty black and white, a majority voted to leave, I don't particularly feel bad for the minority who didn't...... at what percentage do you not? 55-45? 57-43? 60-40? How big of a gap does it have to be for a "fair vote"? Seems pretty fair as is.

 

[lwien]

I don't understand any of this. Is it kinda like Texas wanting to secede from the union?

 

[°k]

Yup, remove all the remain areas and ignore that the red leave doesn't show how many remain votes they had and it's a massive leave indeed.

Now I'll just say this. Having been here in UK for several years now I could have voted, I think (didn't look into it), but I decided not too as even though this has an impact on the rest of Europe which impacts me, I believe that it was a decision that had to be made by the Britons (or the people living in UK and willing to stay which isn't my case due to personal/professional/sentimental reasons and also the quality of life) and so I decided to remain out of it (pun intended to lighten the mood).So I can only accept the result of this vote, express how I feel about it (which I did) and then leave you guys to enjoy the celebration. I'll just wonder how this decision will translate in the future.

Oh one more thing, I know it's extremely unlikely to happen but you guys don't even think about winning the euro cup else there'll be riots!

 

[1DMF]

I don't understand any of this. Is it kinda like Texas wanting to secede from the union?

UK leaving EU isn't but Scotland wanting to leave UK is.

Oh one more thing, I know it's extremely unlikely to happen but you guys don't even think about winning the euro cup else there'll be riots!

Wouldn't that be funny. On another plus for me (not being a foottie fan), if this means less football on the TV from now on because we won't be playing in the European Cup any more, this day just got even better!

Does this also mean no more Eurovision song contest? - wait hang on if Australia is now in it I guess we can't use not being in the EU as an excuse to not partake!

@HellsWindStaff The UK was the second largest economy in the EU, and gave billions to prop up the other countries. the rest of the 27 will now have to put far more money in to prop the EU up to compensate for the UK money drying up. What that actually means real term and long term...we shall see

 

[°k]

if this means less football on the TV from now on

This is the UK you're talking about football and pints is what's holding the country together, and if Israel can compete for the Euro cup I guess the UK quitters can too.

Also Texas is big but Scotland leaving the UK is more like one quarter/one third of the US (and not the poorest part) leaving, no?

As for how to explain what UK leaving the EU is... let's say a major player who has not always been the best team player and has a strong financial power on its side has just decided to leave. This will have repercussions on the current agreements between this player and the other ones, it's unsure which ones yet and to what extent, lots of negotiations ahead.
Trying to translate that in US geography (not sure it's a good idea or can even be relevant) let's say that imagine yourself a Florida citizen, you have the right to freely go work and live in the New York state, there's no tax to pay when importing goods from NY to FL or vice and versa despite them using a different currency than the rest of the US, and there are laws to transfer social benefits amongst others from one state to another (all this works as well between all the other states member of the US). Now the state of New York decides to leave the US (with Wall street on their side of course). All those agreements will have to be renegotiated and it's unsure which way it'll go as it'd seem unfair the NY can have the same advantages as CA even though they have left the US. On top of that most states in this imaginary US speak a different language and have major cultural differences, not to mention a long history against each other and together as well to some extent, but that won't change though.

Now some of you might disagree with this "comparison" and I couldn't blame you for that, just be gentle with me.

Edit: sorry if I have edited this post (I'm not even sure I did but the time stamp seems to indicate so), you're free to unlike it if you disagree with it now of course.

 

[1DMF]

Maybe we should start Earthovision where America, India & Asia can join in?