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Big discussion on Reddit re danger of ceramic heating elements in vapes.

Discussion in 'ABV' started by Qbit, Feb 17, 2013.

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  1. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    i sincerely hope so ... caveat emptor, eh? as it SHOULD be. we all live in a hazardous world, and we're all going to die. Now, it is up to each individual to decide what they put into their mouths and lungs.

    When i look at other vaporizers, i decide to just keep using my own ... for almost 2 years now. am i going to try to get some lab or other to certify my design? ... probably not.

    although i would like to get approved as a Medicare device ... i hate paperwork, so i'll probably outsource that task.
  2. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    I like the idea of caveat emptor, but unfortunately that is not the world we live in, it's an ideal.

    The world we live in is full of lawsuits and nondisclosure agreements, as well as courts that rule against the law as a somewhat daily occurrence. It's especially troubling when a consumer doesn't do their homework, or harms themselves in a way that is due to their own misuse or ignorance and then they win in court. It would be best for you to remember this.
  3. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    I thought it was pretty clear that I did think about how others will see it. Forgive me if I reached a conclusion that differs from yours.
  4. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    No reason to apologize, you reached the same conclusion as me, and the fact that you thought about how others think shows in your decision to leave this topic open to discussion.

    I appreciate you allowing us to further discuss our concerns. :)
    pakalolo likes this.
  5. Chill Dude

    Chill Dude Well-Known Member

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    Well, It seems that an ailment even more contagious than VAS is becoming prevalent on this thread. It's called General Anxiety Disorder (GAD). It appears this all got started from a guy who talked to to some other guy(probably a customer service rep) at a Chinese factory that produces ceramic heating elements. After talking to this person ( who btw, didn't even know what a vaporizer was) the author of the post became convinced that these heating elements, when used in vaporizers can somehow cause an array of health issues. The fact of the matter is that there is absolutely no scientific proof that these heating elements can cause any health issues at all. I'm totally convinced that it's a bunch of BS...Unless someone on this thread as has found a credible scientific study on Ceramic heaters in vaporizors, there's really not anything to talk about. Right?

    All this is doing is causing fear and endless anxiety to some members that are prone to these types of things.

    I mean really... Maybe I should walk out my front door right now and take an air sample to a lab so I can be certain the air is 100% free of contaminants so I can determine if it's safe to leave my house LOL......
  6. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    ;)
  7. BigDaddyVapor

    BigDaddyVapor @BigDogJunction

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    I don't know for sure... but I would say its a safe bet, that the major vape manufacturers are aware of the potential risks and, I'm sure all use the higher quality components. I'm sure Linus at VB would confirm the same, with their ceramic heating elements.

    You get what you pay for. If you're looking for a cheap vape and you buy one, with a ceramic heating core... you're probably going to get a cheap core. But, a SSV, DBV, VB, Arizer, etc... you're getting something that has gone thru EXTENSIVE testing. Part of that price, is the R&D that went into it.
    Quetzalcoatl likes this.
  8. Jeppy

    Jeppy JedHI Vaporist

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    BDV, I think you should throw your proverbial hat in the ring and call all the major vape manufactures up and announce your willingness to test all their items in question. :lol:
    BigDaddyVapor likes this.
  9. Frederick McGuire

    Frederick McGuire Aggressively Loungey

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    I disagree, if evidence is to be expected, then absence of evidence is evidence of absense. (IMO?)
    How many of us believe in unicorns? How much evidence is there that they don't exist?
    [/skeptic nit-picking] ;)
    -------
    From what I've read, this whole thing seems like a massive beat-up...

    Risks are relative.
    Can it be guaranteed that you won't inhale a few micro-particles of caramic? No
    Does that make it horribly dangerous? Also No.

    It seems to me like on the daily scale of dangerous activities, not only is vaping relatively low, but it's replacing something far more dangerous (Combustion)

    It's all well and good to want a completely clear path, but none of the air we breath is completely clean... there are contaminants everywhere, it's just a matter of degrees and whether this additional potential contaminant is of a degree that warrants any worries.
    In the case of the High-Quality vapes that have garnered their happpy followings here on FC, I think no worries are really necessary.

    For el-cheapo un-inspected China vapes, (and I guess any low quality vape, no offense china;)) the worries are a bit more warranted IMO

    :2c:
  10. Jeppy

    Jeppy JedHI Vaporist

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    Wouldn't you know it.... While I was thinking up my next quip,,,,my foot inadvertently hit the on/off switch of my VV ps thereby turning my HI off. I was laughing,,,went to put the HI up to the rasting tube,,,and the ol HI was colder than my wife every since I forgot our anniversary. :doh: The year doesn't seem to be off to a good start. :shrug:
    Quetzalcoatl and kushcabbage like this.
  11. Quetzalcoatl

    Quetzalcoatl 200% THC

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    It's hard to believe the guy when he starts with "I've owned every major brand of vaporizer" and doesn't even know that the Volcano uses an aluminum heating element rated to be safe up to 4-digit temps :rolleyes:
    canj00digit? and Jeppy like this.
  12. Gunky

    Gunky Well-Known Member

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    The original guy is probably full of shit but it's good to question common assumptions and verify that the devices we are using are indeed safe.
    OO likes this.
  13. Qbit

    Qbit cannabanana

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    I was redading a Reddit thread concerning smoking vs non-smoking, where the subject of vaping came up, and along with it, one poster warning about the danger of ceramic elements. And then this retort was posted:

    As a person getting completing their doctoral thesis in ceramic engineering (secondary mullite nucleation from alumina additions to traditional feldspar porcelain bodies), no, you can't.

    Even if you are using a simple clay body like you would use for tableware the thermal expansion and thermal conductivity are not enough to even cause the slightest chipping/cracking under normal cooling.

    Any vaporizer worth it's salt isn't going to get much above 200°C and that temperature isn't even enough to expand the quartz in a traditional porcelain body, let alone the mullite or silica.

    So unless you actually start hitting the ceramic element with something, it's not going to chip and if it does, it won't be micro chips that will float in the air and even if that somehow happens, it isn't in large enough quantities to cause any permanent damage, even to a smoker.

    Edit;

    Here is a surface picture of some fired clay to show you how smooth and uniform the surface really is for a simple ceramic;

    Porcelain at 500x magnification:
    [​IMG]

    This surface does not chip and crack easily, especially under the extremely mild heating that a vaporizer would subject it to.
    Snappo, Caligula, Tweak and 2 others like this.
  14. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    I don't know abut his 200C statement. I usually start at 190 and end up around 220 when using a digital vape.
    fake name likes this.
  15. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    Oh noooes! We're all gonna die now!:tinfoil:
    ogcook and Qbit like this.
  16. baurman

    baurman Well-Known Member

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    I miss the days when the Purple Days was all about being made by non harming materials.
  17. kelper

    kelper .

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    We live in an increasingly newfangled world with little to no long-term data or experience accompanying many of our habits and most of our products. We're all guinea pigs of the ever-coming new man. You'll plug yourself non-stop into the cell grid and yet worry about what has got to be microscopic particles of dust, if even that? It's hardly like the old days of asbestos when I think they were making everything but pancakes out of that shit!

    BTW, I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
  18. Fully Melted

    Fully Melted It's OK to enjoy your medicine.

    I'd worry more what is ON and IN your weed more than ceramic elements in name brand vapes. Unless you DIY your cannabis. Additives w/ carcinogens in it and is not to be used for food crops... but it sure does make the grower a lot of extra money? The things done by the unscrupulous to make money in this world is pretty sick.

    Don't worry if you get cancer from your weed, HC will make you an exemptee! (a bit late)
    Or as one "kid" said to me while showing me some benzine oil he wanted to sell (RS oil) "It won't hurt me, it cures cancers!" I'll be sure the headstone carver puts that on your stone.
  19. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    Rick Simpson Oil is made with a solvent, and would be fine if correctly purged. Don't misinform man.
    Caligula likes this.
  20. Symbolik

    Symbolik Active Member

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    I highly doubt ceramic is that bad. In the ecig world people are starting to use porous ceramic wick to soak up the juice.. Everyone is going to spew out info without having any knowledge, granted I don't either, but I wont believe something unless it can be factually proven
  21. FatZip818OG

    FatZip818OG New Member

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    • No offensive material. Please do not make posts that are obscene, vulgar, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist or discriminatory.
    smoke weed from glass filtered through water,
    vaping sucks
    it really does
    it's a partial half assed high missing major nuances of feeling found in smoking the herb with a flame.
    vaping only tastes good, its high is SEE THROUGH and barely present and not the full high of the bud

    THE GUIDE TO GETTTING HIGH
    HOW TO CLEAN
    MAGIC TOOL
    PLACE TO GET BOMB OG FOR LOCAL 818
    READ BELOW.....

    smoke some raskal og right from your glass bong, no matching hand down the best high. and for all you who don't understand. vaping thc starts at around 118-125 the other compounds vape at high temps. flame heat them all forming many more compounds and the flame itself is creating a more complete chemical reation with the weed. vape lovers have weak lungs and thats why they cant hit the bong, or are closest smokers who want to look like tobacco smokers, or vape sellers. real stoners smoke bongs!

    i clean my bong with Kush Clean everytime after, its reusable, fuck i think i cleaned this bong like 40 times so far without buying a new bottle. it cleans my bong for me while i sleep. no fucking work at all. thats how you get high properly.

    a cleaned bong, bomb organic og nugs finely cured, lighter, cold water for bong and you. ahhhhh
    its creeping in.

    i also wash my bong out and my girls couchie with the hydrawand handheld bidet, it fits the 14mm & 19mm bong hole perfectly and also leaves my girl fresh for desert :) and if your in the 818 valley and need some og go to Kester Caregivers
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  22. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    Hey fatzip,

    combustion sucks. it removes all the wonderfull tastefull notes and leaves you with an ash taste in your mouth.

    It will numb you first before making you fly. It will be over in 30min and with vaping i'm still high after 3h.

    I can vape anywhere, i can't combust anywhere.

    I can function while high and i can numb myself if i want to as well.

    I actually tell the difference in a much more clear way between an indica and a sativa.

    So, it's all good... but to me, vaping is the best and most pleasurefull way to experience cannabis. ;)
  23. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    7,601
    you clearly haven't had much positive experience with vaping. when my smoker friends hit my vapes they are out for the count. I'll bet with a good vape and a little know how you would think differently. when I smoke the high lasts about half as long as when I vape.
    Snappo, Maine420, mlo4sho and 2 others like this.
  24. FatZip818OG

    FatZip818OG New Member

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    i feel sorry you are so fooled. i can let a sativa go 80-90 days and it will lay you out like an indica and i can pic and indica 1 week early and it will leave you ampy.
    you have littlle experience compared to me

    look i have the fucking insane cut from florida, called TK. my bong smells like my bud does, it is ruined in a vape. i live in cali man. i grow my own and serve dispensaries, actually i flood them. i have released many a cuts, i let the ghost cut, tahoe cut, raskal cut, alien cut, chem 91 cut, chem 4, chem 4, all got out accidentally lol, anyways you have no idea my knowlege or bud caliber, and i don't have to know yours, cuz mine is by far best. it can win a cup if i came out the wood work,
    and as for experience i own a fucking shop
    i have access to every brand conceivable, ive gone to champs show tried them all they all suck
    it does make AAA bud taste better, but mine aint AAA its ***** 5 star above AAA

    i know my weed wreak from the vacuum sealed bags they are in. so please don't try to school me, im an og from the big bad san fernando valley 818. been in the kush game since 89

    had the valley sewed up by 96, kush heads everywhere by then.
    my insane florida cut is what i hit the other og's with since the original kush from florida has no citrus and the modern day og's do. they produce top shelf s1 all day long. and the momma is unimaginable smoke. makes the cannibis cup winner look commercial cuz it is watered down og's winning the cup. if you argue with me past this point you know nothing in the same realm as i
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  25. Vicki

    Vicki Herbal Alchemist

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    That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. Doesn't make you right, though. ;) I'd rather consume my cannabis safely, thank you very much. Plus, combustion tastes like ass!! :nod:
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