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BHO purge without vacuum?

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by tepictoton, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    So i have a question...

    Is it possible to purge BHO without a vacuum?

    Or

    Is there a 'cheap' alternative to getting a vacuum pomp and chamber? Kind of like a gettho set-up?

    I have been looking into brake bleeding sets, but don't know if they would do the trick? Anybody has any experience with them?

    thx allready
     
  2. notmyrealUSERname

    notmyrealUSERname Notmy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    543
    The best way to purge without a vacuum is to use a very accurate oven that can hold the temp at 170f - 175f, spread the Bho as thin as possible on parchment paper (after your initial waterbath purge) to create as much surface area as possible. The oven works best because it keeps the top layer of bho viscous enough to let the butane bubble out and escape.

    If your oven isn't accurate enough to hold 170f, then the next best thing is to use a pancake griddle and a laser thermometer. The laser thermometer will allow you to accurately measure the temp of the bho, if it gets too hot lift the parchment paper right off of the griddle - it will cool down very fast because of the large surface area.

    I would think that a hand pump wouldn't be able to pull a vacuum fast enough he bho would cool down as its expanding (from the vacuum) and you would end up with butane still left in your bho, which will more than likely become budder.

    To be fair I have never used a hand pump to purge but the reason why people spend the money and get a two stage pump is because it pulls vacuum so fast. If the bho isn't viscous enough then butane can't escape. That's why timing is very important. People have started to put heated ceramic tiles in the chamber to help the bho stay viscous enough while under the vacuum.
     
  3. jdee

    jdee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    221
    Location:
    Canada
    I have a vacuum chamber but if I'm not in a rush toaster oven between 110-150f depending on strain until no more bubbles works just as good.
     
    AdmiralAlpacha likes this.
  4. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    thx for the input

    I now realise I have not been very clear with where I want to go with this...Would the end result of this be stable at room temp?

    Also, would decarbing the material first give better results? This has been asked in another thread, but no one seems to be able to either confirm this or not...
     
  5. notmyrealUSERname

    notmyrealUSERname Notmy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    543
    How do you define stable? I wouldn't call budder stable because it looses potency relatively quickly. But it will hold its shape and is easy to handle.

    I would consider sap to be stable if it's like toffee and sticks to everything. If it turns to budder after a week, then some might suggest that it wasn't 'stable'. I think if it bidders it's because either all the butane wasn't purged properly, or it could be due to big changes in humidity during storage.

    In regards to decarbing your bho, I'm not really sure why you would want to do that, I was under the impression that decarbing was only necessary if you wanted to eat it. So if that's what you want then I would make bho as normal, then gather as much reclaim as possible to use for cooking, it will have been decarbed during the initial hit, then simply dissolve the reclaim in coconut oil and ingest.
     
  6. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    thx for the info,

    by stable I meant that it would be easier to handle, preferable a 'solid' state, kinda like glass...

    but if i'm reading you correct, then you are saying it is more stable, ie will not loose potency, when I leave it in the sticky icky condition that I am allready used to getting from purging it as much as possible with a warm water bath?

    Cause then i would keep on doing this the way I am used to...
     
  7. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

    Messages:
    1,014
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    How big of runs are you doing? I have heard other people have had success with the more high quality brake bleeder kits I believe Flkswat mentioned one he was satisfied with in the spider man oil thread a couple weeks ago. Probably don't need a vac unless your yielding more then 7 grams of oil and want one for convenience.

    The decarb question I have got no solid feedback on yet.
     
  8. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    used to do smaller runs, but now got my hands on a very big bag of goodies :-p will probably split it up in smaller runs and do some different things to it.

    Most important aspect will be to get an extract that will be stable in two ways. Stable as in managable at room temp, and stable as in does not loose potency...

    any further input is much appreciated:tup:
     
  9. Puffers

    Puffers Micro-Climate Mastermind

    Messages:
    1,014
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    If your doing small runs, then as long you run your butane into a pan over hot water then do a short oven purge you should be fine. Then just make sure you store the oil in an airtight container out of light exposure.

    Check my other thread for udated info on decarb before run.
     
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  10. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    so they first small batch was done, but turned out to become budder :p we must ave heated it for too long after purging the butane, but i didn't want to risc being left with this butane loaden stuff.

    Next run will be without added heat during the final period of trying to get more butane out...more time and patience might give another result

    we were left with 7.7g of nice smelling material with the consistancy of budder, basically being lot easier to se n my solo as I have noticed, so I guess one might say the experiment for now worked out great ;)
     
  11. suhbliem

    suhbliem Grower

    Messages:
    70
    hand pumps in my experience do not work very well and you will be pumping for hours to get to 29 in/Hg. I tried a hand pump for a couple days then bought a electric pump, best $100 ever spent concerning bho equipment. I use the pump hooked up to a 1 qt. mason jar and have never had problems in over 300+ runs on the same jar heated to 150F @ 29Hg over 24 hours straight. I pull about 20-25g per run using 3 oz. of trim.

    Also use a extractor with a I.D. no more than 1/2". I use a 3 foot stainless steel pipe with a 1/2" I.D. and it holds about 90 grams of coarsley ground trim/buds. if you use a extractor with a larger I.D. like 1 1/4" the chances that the butane will "channel" through the plant material increases and results in less yield of BHO. 1/2" ID pipes force the butane to contact all the plant matter during its journey downward, you will notice drastic increases in yield from just this.

    bottom line: don't deal with hand pumps they don't do hardly anything and is a complete waste of time and energy imo. vac pump in warm water bath over 48 hours continuous is the best imo. creates amazing honey comb stable at room temperatures and the oil tastes like nothing but flowers, no bitter aftertaste, no butane taste.
     
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  12. DreamTime

    DreamTime 110100100

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    SoCal
    Budder isn't caused by heating, but rather by impurities. Water, butane, and plant waxes can all contribute to buddery/waxy/opaque oil:

    • If any water gets into your oil while spraying or purging, you'll likely get budder. (Really moist starting material can cause this as well).
    • If you use a lot of butane (like trying to get every last drop out of some low quality starting material), you'll start pulling plant waxes out and end up with budder.
    • If you underpurge your oil, the butane will cause the oil to become opaque and buddery

    Usually, if I end up with a batch of oil that turns to budder, I winterize it, which will clean it up very nicely.
     
    Quetzalcoatl and Denver912 like this.
  13. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    Hey,

    just got back from vacation and notice this thread has gotten some attention.

    thanks for the input. I noticed some water culmulating in my dish while doing my warm water purge. I am a bit flabbergasted by that, because the only imaginable place I can think of that it comes from is the butane I am using...I use Newport refined butane, maybe someone can advice me a better option? Please bare in mind that I am living in Europe. Many brands named at forums turn out to be hard to get here.

    Also, for now I had been using a honey bee extractor as a tube.

    Suhbliem, what exactly do you mean with 1/2"? One and a half inch? It confuses me a bit.

    Well I have a new batch waithing for me to start working on it, so I hope i can pinpoint the problem soon, and get soem nice golden oil as a result.

    I must say that the end result I got now is still nice to use on a Ti-nail as well as in my solo...Strangely enough I actually think it is easier to handle then oil as I made before...

    When I come to think of it, the only thing I changed from my other runs with smaller batches is the butane...
     
  14. DreamTime

    DreamTime 110100100

    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    SoCal
    It's not likely to be the butane. It's probably condensation. When you spray, the tube gets really cold really fast, and depending on your environment, this can lead to condensation forming inside the tube.
     
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  15. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    hmm now that I come to think of it...

    I did start bathing it in hot water while still extracting. I'm going to try next run to waith with water bathing untill after the full extraction is done.

    Thing is I am doing fairly large runs, meaning on average 50cans of butane are being spend to extract from over 1500g of starting materials. So after a while the butane will run to the top of my pirex dish. This is when i decided to put it in a bigger dish with hot, nearly boiling water. I guess some of the water vapor that this created must have condensed inside my pyrex dish. I'll stop doing that for the next run and have bit more patience...

    Anyways of preventing the condensation from taking place inside the tube? Pack it tighter? Or would that be a bad idea? I am using a simple honeybee extractor but am looking into upgrading into a stainless steel pipe.
     
  16. suhbliem

    suhbliem Grower

    Messages:
    70
    there shouldnt be any condensation inside the tube, that means your material is too wet, dry it out in the over on 125F for 2-5 minutes and check it, it should crumble in your hands. don't pack it in, you want to ever so lightly pack it. if its too tightly packed the butane will create channel instead of fully immersing all the material and results in less yield.

    half inch inside diameter stainless pipe. you want the extractor skinny so the butane hits all the plant matter, 1.5" diameter pipes dont work so great, usually have to extract once, take out plant matter, mix it up, repack it and extract second time. ideally quarter inch diameter pipe would be best and maximize efficiency but the downside is it would take a lot of time to run through the numbers you're talking about. most I ran at the same time is 2 ounces since I only make it for myself. usually get 14 grams of amber goodness that lasts meet a couple weeks.
     
  17. livinthelife

    livinthelife New Member

    Messages:
    1


    Im new to making bho and i have been running small amounts like half o's but im running an ounce this weekend. I was just wondering about the oven purge method and how long youd need to leave in it the oven for.For how long would you say youd need to purge the end results in the oven for and what temperature would you recommend?
     
  18. cawshook

    cawshook Solod out.

    Messages:
    626
  19. tepictoton

    tepictoton Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    892
    Location:
    a funny place called earth
    No use, unless you can create a deep vacuum forget about it.
     
  20. mohawkTrail

    mohawkTrail New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I have settled into a method I'm very pleased with--quick and effective. Typically this would be a small batch, for me, yielding less than 2g final extract.

    I let the Butane boil out over tepid water or at room temperature, making sure I don't get too much condensation (either by covering loosely or using a deep container). Once it's no longer bubbling I redissolve in an ounce or two of warmed 95% ethanol and pour out into an only slightly curved glazed porcelain plate. This I place over a vessel of warm water and run a fan. Within 30 min. to an hour it's done. Scrape with a razor while the plate is warm and the extract is soft.


    note:

    Alcohol cools when it evaporates, and running a fan can cause it to evaporate quickly enough to cause condensation, depending on the humidity and room temperature. Try to avoid it.

    I use a plate rather than a pyrex dish because the dish has a flatter surface and I avoid having to deal with removing the extract from the corners. The curve is slight, so the razor accomodates with a slight bend.

    If you have in mind to winterize, put that step in after redissolving in alcohol.

    To deodorize the extract, dry it at higher temperatures, but not so high as to decarb it, if you want it to still be hard and clear.
     
  21. budbudbud

    budbudbud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Pancake griddle and patience. Brake bleeders work alright but I've seen just as clean oil without the use of one.
     
  22. ataxian

    ataxian California

    Messages:
    5,879
    With "PATIENCE" you can purge without a vacuum purge.

    My problem is I'm impatient!
    [​IMG]
    A bunch of used parts slapped together if your in a hurry?
    That looks painful!:bang:
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
    2clicker and aesthyrian like this.
  23. itschad

    itschad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    310
    I do a flameless purge over the course of 3 - 5 days depending on how much I run.

    I run into a square pyrex dish sitting inside a larger pyrex dish filled with water as hot as the tap will go. Once most of the liquid butane is gone I loosely cover the smaller dish with foil. 3 times a day, I boil a pot of water and swap out the water that was in the larger dish with freshley boiled water. The result has always been solid and easy to handle at room temperature
     
  24. ataxian

    ataxian California

    Messages:
    5,879
    It took 3 day minimum to do a flame less purge.
    You can do it!
    I'm just impatient!

    Vacuum purge is fast and effective.
    Still Flame Less!

    100 f water bath (I use a thermometer)

    Regardless of how you make it.

    If your concentrate taste good and is effective for your needs then your a winner!

    Plus it's more affordable!
     
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  25. jdee

    jdee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    221
    Location:
    Canada
    Griddle works really well actually. I bought some heating mats to try to get a stable low temp but it wasn't hot enough. I wanted the inside of my vac chamber to reach 110f to get the perfect purge while preserving as much terpenes as possible. With the griddle I was able to get the temp inside the vac chamber between 108-114f steady. The other option is a scientific hot plate, but the ones who are accurate to within 1 degree cost around $1,000. Hot plates accurate to within 5 degrees are more affordable, and something like a NuWave precision induction cooktop is accurate to within 10 degrees. In terms of bang for buck the griddle clearly wins.
     
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