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Best of the Magic-Flight Box thread

Discussion in 'Best Of' started by magicflight, May 16, 2009.

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  1. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    mod note: To comment on the Magic-Flight Launch Box, go to the full MFLB thread. To add posts to this thread, read the sticky at the top of this forum.

    Hi Everyone,

    Re-Introducing the Magic-Flight Launch Box -- a small, fast, portable vaporizer
    that can be used by anyone, anywhere, anytime.

    Advantages/Features:
    - Portable: Preload and use while outdoors; No cords or plugs.
    - Compact: only 2.5 by 1.25 by 0.9 inches in size!
    - Friendly: The Box uses AA rechargeable batteries (no lighters/butane)
    - Ultra-Quick: from loaded to vaping in less than 10 seconds!
    - Reliable: Engineered to rely only on dependable physical science (no electronics).
    - Robust: Simple durable construction; even suitable for your pants pocket!
    - Elegant: Handcrafted renewable woods add an artistic element for your pleasure.
    - Responsive: convenient and easy to use; you can see and sense everything.
    - Safe: no combustion by-products and little to no odor; no glass to break.
    - Stealthy: Can be hidden in the palm of your hand; very hard to detect when used.
    - Effective: a vaping experience which is immediate and intimate, it gets the job done!
    - Inexpensive: Exclusively designed and made in the USA, yet priced under $100.

    The Launch Box is also easy to operate -- it provides nearly instant heat-up and cool down so you can load, use, and reload without having to wait. Put it in your pocket and go -- this vaporizer will always provide a good safe vape, even in windy conditions.

    The Team at Magic-Flight aims to have the Box be loved by those users for which it is appropriate. While it is acknowledged that the Box might not be the last and forever vape for everyone, for everything, or for all possible situations, we have worked hard to ensure that for many usage patterns, the Box is best! We are excited to offer this product to you and to explore the ways in which it might fit into your lifestyle (visit our website at http://www.magic-flight.com for more).

    Please use this thread to post your thoughts and experiences when using the Launch Box. Feel free to ask questions and write up a review for the benefit of others. What is your Launch Box story?

    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]

    PS: Also, check out the Vaporpedia entry at http://www.vaporpedia.com/wiki/Magic-Flight_Launch_Box

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
    Ruby Jones likes this.
  2. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    Yes, that is what we recommend. Simpler and easier that way. One load will provide appx 4 to 6 hits, depending on your usage/taste preferences.

    Correct -- backing out the battery stops the heating process. It is necessary to do this when you are done -- prevents waste of the load and is better for the battery. (The stock batteries are rechargeable and the unit comes with a recharger).

    Each filling will take appx 50 to 100 milligrams of material. If you wish to vape more than 200 milligrams of material per day, you will need additional NiMh batteries (which we can supply, or you can purchase along with a charger in most electronics stores). A good fast charger tends to cost between $15 and $35 and usually comes with the right batteries.

    Others are welcome to 'weigh in' as they will.

    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  3. duh

    duh Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    255
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    welcome digglover! please tell us how it goes!

    I have discovered a new method for the box: The Sipper.

    As the LB is an 'on-demand' vape, as long as the chamber is fresh, 3 seconds of continuous power will generate vapor. The Sipper is taking tiny hits of short duration - 7-10 seconds w/a few shakes during inhalation. Using this method, the average 'groove' (:p) would last an hour or more, assuming the user was only taking maintenance hits every 20 minutes or so.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  4. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    A lot of questions in a small space -- I will do my best to answer them.

    Re Batteries: most rechargeable AA batteries (NiMh) should work -- particularly more recent ones, which tend to store more than 2000 mAh. There may be some variation between battery makers that some would fit better than others. You will need to peel the label off the battery (exposing the metal can) to use it with the Box.

    AAA batteries are too thin to work -- the Box is made specifically to fit AA batteries.

    The following materials are used in the construction of the Box: Birch wood, 304 stainless steel screen, copper plated steel rods, Acrylic (Plexi-glass) cover, and a stainless steel spring clip (for the cover). There is no soldier (ie no lead). There are no hazardous materials used. The added/optional draw pipe accessories (not necessary to use the Box) are also made of Acrylic.

    Overall, the Box is very durable (can be dropped without harm, etc). The only part which is more delicate is the internal screen which is very thin -- use only the provided brush as a tool in direct contact with the screen. IF the screen becomes damaged (whatever the reason) we send a replacement Box unit for free (its part of the warranty -- the screen itself is not end-user replaceable).

    The temperature in the device is controlled by the draw rate (ie, breath control) and the battery is left in for the duration of the hit, or if taking multiple hits, for as long as the load lasts. You must remember to retract, remove, or invert the battery when you are finished taking hits off the Box. Like with the wind, faster tends to mean cooler. To get higher temperatures in the load, you need to draw very slowly. If drawing directly from the Box (ie, using the Box in the 'native' mode), you will also be able to sense the temperature of the vapor stream as well as the taste (this is the recommended practice).
    For best taste, it is important to tap or shake (stir) the load frequently. The post by Duh earlier in this thread is a good practice for how to best use the Box.

    In regards to how many batteries you will need on a camping trip, a conservative estimate would be to figure that one Box filling will be sufficient for one person and will require one charged battery. Therefore, if you had two people who wanted to use the same Box twice a day for two days, that would be 8 loadings worth and 8 charged batteries.

    If there are other questions, please ask.

    Best,
    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  5. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    Agreed -- it probably is carbon. The Launch Box was not really designed to work with liquids or Oils, and this sort of result is probably typical.

    In regards to cleaning, it is possible to use one of those torch lighters to remove carbon buildup (or other residues) on the bottom of the groove (only -- does not work for the sides). The method is similar to that as with the Launch Tube -- very carefully applied heat to burn out the carbon. The technique is very fast and very thorough but also very risky. Also, expect that the screen will still have oxidization discoloring when you are done (this is normal). With the right heat, the carbon will be fully removed and the screen will breathe again. This can only be done with skill -- ones aim and timing with the torch must be very good (else will burn the wood) and the distance must be exactly right (get the screen more than red hot and it will be ruined). We do not generally recommend this sort of procedure for cleaning the Box -- it is very easy to mess up and cause permanent damage.

    The other option is to take a fresh battery and simply leave it in the unit (empty) with the cover open until the battery runs out. There is a chance (no guarantee) that it may get hot enough to clean the screen. However, this may have the side effect of also damaging the battery since it too will get hot from being in the Box overlong (several minutes).

    Normally, these drastic sort of recovery procedures are not necessary, but if people are going to experiment with anything which liquefies when hot (ie resins), these sorts of method may be your only real answer. Carbon left behind after using oil will probably not get cleaned using any amount of Iso or water -- may as well save yourself some time there. We do not recommend any form of immersion cleaning in general since the Box is made of wood.

    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  6. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    One concern to be careful of when using a funnel is that the bottom end of the funnel may damage or distort the screen if it is sharp or any sort of weight/force comes to bear on it. The screen is extremely thin and fairly fragile -- it will not withstand much pressure, especially if it is applied all in one spot (may create a puncture). Overall, using a small spoon may be a better and safer way to load the Box.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  7. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    The screen is 304 stainless.

    You can get just about any type of final output you want. Most of our early testers seemed to go until the material was evenly just a little past the "army green" phase and was beginning to turn light brown. The key is to tap or shake the box so as to stir the load from time to time -- this ensures even and consistent results. The temperature is controlled by the breath (draw technique) and the overall level of cooking is mostly defined by how long you use it. It is possible, for example, to bring the load to an even dark chocolate brown if you want to, although the taste towards the end may not be the best.

    -- Magic-Flight.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  8. kingcrimson

    kingcrimson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    172
    Location:
    LA
    I own both.

    I got my II first and was floored with it, while its a true portable, it was not able (nor did I expect it to be able) to allow me to replace combustion completely, nor is it exactly ultra-stealth. I like it for in car use but wouldn't use it in public round people who shouldnt know because of the whooshing, even after you turn it off in a hurry, try covering the sound of several cycles worth of wooshing when someone interrupts you (or you get pulled over for that matter). No thanks.

    Then, i got my LB preorder. Less expensive, made in america (II is made in Ireland I believe, no problems with the fightin irish and their quality goods) by a like minded group or individual who gets my dough, which I happen to like. But that is minor in comparison to the advantages of the LB over the II. Including but not limited to soundless operation, near zero time to optimum heating is reached, super small size, and that it has singled box-edly (i dont know don't ask) replaced my custom glass as my main device just because it is such a good one, I shit you not. The above pictures of my hommade battery holder with 16 slots should be testament enough, lol.

    Ill continue with little things, because those combine are what makes something truely good. a snowball effect if you will.
    I have spilled my II's bowl numerous times despite the fact that I am leery of it happening now, its happened to others using my II with me too.
    I have never spilled herb from the LB, and I don't even use the rubber band for the top while its in my pocket loaded or ever.

    I would never used my II while sitting next to someone who was not to know what I was consuming. The wooshing, of course being a major factor, heat up time to optimal temp another thing.
    With the II I feel like I turn it on hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. And eventually I'm like, woah, Im stonned.

    Whereas with the LB, its on, hot, and hitting. Your toasted. that quick, really. Then its cool and back in the pocket. nifty.
    I have used the LB at work the last three days, on set. While people sit outside for their cig breaks I have something to do now, I play a little game. Every one that comes out and doesn't act like they smell herb, and/or figure out what I'm doing, I get a point. I lost count on the first day.
    I have used the LB sitting on a bench next to a non smoker (cig or herb) who was completely unaware of my actions, and at times there was noone smoking a cig at the same time even, 100% stealth certified as far as I'm concerned. I got a huge laugh out of getting ripped next to some friends on my crew who I know are straight edge, and the fact that they had absolutely no clue.

    My II can definately get quite warm, hot even to the touch, LB does not get anything over lukewarm to the touch.

    Id say one II bowl (I pack them fairly tightly) would be more than 1 trench, if only slightly. I think .5 of the II bowl is probably about right whereas .2-.3 is probably the LB capacity, and I pack the trench fairly tight too. Though these are of course general estimates. I don't own a PD so I dont exactly have a frame of reference as to what everyone here thinks is efficient but I consider the LB to be exceedingly efficient at delivering THC, I love it, its extraordinary and I don't use either of those words lightly. I hoped I would be satisfied with it but never expected to be so enamored with its ability to deliver an exceedingly high quality stone.

    I feel like the LB is able (if you hit it in such a manner because you desire so) to reach higher temps than the II, which is something for me anyways that is good. Plus the II's instruction manual straight up says optimal temp is reached after 30 min. Are you kidding me? I don't have that kind of time, I need a rip and go, sometimes.

    Customer Service!!!!! while I haven no exp with II's cs, I have gotten a replacement LB for my "malfunctioning" (in quotes because the problem was so minor) unit, and am still shocked that I did. Just had to edit and add this.

    So my II's niche is small but there doubtless. I just fucking love my LB, I don't care what Hen says, plastic, butane, and goodness knows what else that takes time makes sound and is larger and more expensive, vs a simple battery powered circuit hand made wooden american craftsmanship, smaller and less expensive, but even more importantly than all of that, and this is serious here, a device orders of magnitude better at consistently delivering desired effects, in my professional stoner opinion.

    I should also note, than I am smoking 100% organic high quality sensi, so I have no clue what would happen if you but some 'brown frown' in the box or the II for that matter, and I shudder to think of eithers efficiency at delivering flavor with a product that didnt taste good. I am getting toast of off a trench or two but the herb I'm inputting looks like this. :o

    [​IMG]

    To me I would never have gone on a vape search without good herb to put in it, it would have been a waste; To me good herb is tantamount to vaping, two pieces of the same puzzle that everyone hopefully should be able to put together.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
    The Stranger likes this.
  9. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    The warranty covers all non-user repairable functional issues with the Box. If the Box you receive is damaged or inoperable, we send you a replacement (given the nature of the device, we are unable to accept returns via post).

    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  10. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    In regards to the questions asked about technique, there are two basic outcomes which should be occurring regardless of what technique is being used: 1) color change, and 2) taste change. IF neither of these are occurring, then either the technique is wrong or the device is not working correctly. For example, as a first test, without any drawing at all, it should be possible to turn one full load completely brown or even black on a single charged battery. If this is not possible, then something is wrong -- check the battery, charger, and that the Box is producing heat -- it is probably a warranty issue and we will re-issue whatever is necessary to fix. Otherwise, once you are satisfied your Box passes the basic test, then it is a question of technique (or possibly one of the quality of the loaded materials).

    If you plan to use the Box in its native mode (no attachments), one way to start is to look down the draw hole just after you put in the battery. You should see vapor appear in the hole within a few seconds. At this point begin your draw, using the temperature/taste of the vapor itself as a guide how fast to draw. Faster drawing means cooler temperatures and slower drawing means hotter temperatures. However, please be aware that under normal operating conditions, it is unlikely that you will be able to draw so slowly as to cause the taste to resemble that of smoking (this is by design). Whatever rate of draw you choose, continue until you can hold no more and then while holding your breath, shake the Box so as to tumble the loaded materials. You only need to shake or tap the Box enough to ensure that the load comes free and there is an even mixing of the loaded materials in the bottom of the groove (or "trench"). Breathe out while settling the materials in the trench again (a gentle side to side motion is usually enough for this), look into down the draw hole to check for vapor again, and begin your next slow draw. Repeat this cycle until the taste has changed significantly and/or the color of the load has changed significantly. When you are finished, remove the battery.

    Again, if the load has noticeable changed color, then it is certain that vapor has been produced (and hopefully been inhaled). Otherwise, please check that the battery is charged and that the Box is heating sufficiently. You should have no trouble completely cooking a single load with a single battery.

    I hope that these diagnostic notes are helpful. If people are having functional issues with the Box not working correctly, please let us know via email and we will attempt to get these corrected as soon as possible.

    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  11. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    It is a Lifetime warranty: i.e. it is for as long as Magic-Flight.com is in business.
    Hopefully, that will be a longish time (at least 30 yrs :) ) -- we want this to be sustainable for the long term.

    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  12. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    The Magic-Flight symbol is a multiple orientation synthesis of the
    following elements, visual concepts, and ideas:.
    - a stylized M and F (newer ones with a dash between them).
    - a graphic representation of vapor emerging from the Box itself,
    (the crescent representing the screen the material sits in, the circle
    representing the load and/or the draw hole, and the squiggle being the vapor).
    - images representative of a person (a woman, a priest, the burning man, and/or
    a person skiing).
    - the natural sun and moon and:.
    - a pyramid.
    - a gnomic rod (ancient surveying instrument).
    - a road to the horizon.
    - a sun and planetary body with a spaceship (the Magic-Flight theme).
    - the Ankah (a symbol from Egyptian mysticism).
    - a lightning strike (power).
    - a geometric trinity (circle, triangle, crescent, as representative of trinities in
    general, Druidic and/or metaphysical wisdom).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  13. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    The smaller hole on the opposite end of the Box is part of the assembly process. It is not connected to the vapor chamber so there is no possibility of loosing vapor through it. You can plug it if you wish.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  14. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Hi HMVape,

    Thanks for the great feedback!

    This question has been asked a few times before, and as a result, we have started looking into it more seriously. At the moment, we have a prototype design for the power management bits and are working toward a working model for alpha testing. It will probably be a while still before we have something that is ready for market (months), assuming that various usability tests checkout and we do not hit any other unforeseen roadblocks.

    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  15. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    For the use of a drink cup as stealth enhancement -- I applaud the creativity. In regards to the question of plastics, etc, the temp of vapor stream decreases very rapidly the farther from the unit you get. By the time the vapor is more than 2 inches down the tube, the temp is generally well below 135 Fahrenheit -- cool enough for a straw. I definably suggest that you put the straw onto either the short Peg or (better) the Bulb Bend and attach to the Box if you are going to use a straw.

    Also in regards to stealth, you may notice that if you hold the Box 'overhand' (with your palm downwards over the cover of the Box), that the Box is small enough to be completely hidden within your closed hand.
    Held in this way, the native draw hole is still accessible and you can hit on the Box (the heel of your hand presses the battery in) without anyone being able to see -- it looks like your yawning or suppressing a cough.

    -- Magic-Flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  16. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    It will ship from BlissSville.

    The indicators are usually color and taste. If the load is a uniform light brown, it is most likely done. Some people like to stop before that, when the taste seems to be getting more like "popcorn".

    Identifying the endpoint via taste is something of a subjective factor and varies from person to person, depending on overall usage history, recent exposure, etc. One way to test whether an endpoint is correct for you is to save off the load when you think it is done in some container by itself. Then later, (the next day), when in a 'normal' or 'fresh' frame of mind, load the saved materials back into the Box first, and cook and hit on it a little more. Wait about 5 minutes to see if any effect occurs for you at all. If you get no effect from reheating a previously "finished" load than you know that your original endpoint determination was correct, and you can use that as a guide for future uses. Otherwise, you know that more heating may be required, and you can retest again. Eventually, with experience, you will know what point is exactly best for you.

    I hope that this is helpful

    -- Magic-flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  17. Haywood

    Haywood Onward Thru the Fog

    Messages:
    622
    I've been recommending (and using) the Sanyo 2000 mAh low self discharge Eneloop AA cells. While they don't have quite as much capacity as the standard Sanyo's (or PowerEx), they also don't loose 10% of their charge every week while sitting in your kit bag. This can make a big difference if you normally carry eight batteries, but rarely get to the last two to four. After a month of sitting in your kit, standard NiMH cells will barely have half their capacity left, and you have to remember to top them off all the time. The low self discharge Eneloops also do very well at the huge discharge rates (~10 amps) the Box can draw. They're about $10 for four, including a "free" four cell plastic carrier, at Thomas Distributing. In any case, I agree with your observation that Sanyo and PowerEx cells are probably the best on the market; they are both one of the few companies that actually give you accurate mAh ratings.

    As far as what to use to charge your NiMH cells, I have two recommendations. If you have the money to afford to buy a bunch of AA cells (more than four, maybe eight or twelve), then you should be using a charger that doesn't supply more than about 1 C to the cells (in this case, about 2000 mA). It will take a little over an hour to charge your batteries, but you will get more charge/discharge cycles out of them than you will if you charge them any faster. If you only have two to four batteries, then waiting a minimum of an hour to recharge them may not be the best for you, in which case the best "super fast" charger I've used is the Energizer 15 minute charger. This one pumps almost 6000 mA into each cell, which will charge them in a little over 15 minutes. They will get very hot while charging, even though there is a fan built into the Energizer 15 minute charger. The tradeoff is that you will only get perhaps 50% of the number of charge/discharge cycles pumping 6 amps into a AA cell, as the constant overheating every time you charge them takes its toll.

    Personally, I use a MaHa (PowerEx) MH-C9000 charger, which I feel is the very best of the AA chargers you can buy (without going to a multi-thousand dollar industrial charger). I also have lots and lots of AA cells, so I don't need to be able to charge up in 15 minutes. I pack the Energizer 15 minute charger when I'm traveling and haven't brought a bag of batteries with me. :)

    Oh, and when you're using the Energizer 15 minute fast charger, you want to be careful you don't put fully charged (or almost fully charged) cells into the charger. They will get extremely hot before the charger stops charging them, and you can ruin a cell in no time (a few cycles) if you keep doing this.

    Something else that hasn't been discussed much (as is just mentioned by umpnum14 as I write this) is the difference in diameters of different brand AA cells, and how that effects usage with the Box. The cells that are supplied with the Energizer 15 minute charger have a smaller diameter than most other cells I've tried, for example, though they seem to work fine in the four production Boxes I've bought for my friends. They're a little loose, but they still seem to make good contact with the Boxes terminals. The cells provided by Magic-Flight are a great fit, not too loose and not too tight, as are most of the other brand AA cells I've tried.

    Haywood

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  18. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Yes -- the Box needs to make electrical contact with the battery. Removing the battery label makes this possible. The battery will not work in the Box otherwise.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  19. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    If people are finding that they need to consume more than one battery per loading, we suggest the following test to confirm if the unit is out of calibration and therefore eligible for a warranty replacement:
    1) load the Box with some ABV material that is only slightly/lightly brown; 2) with the lid closed, insert a fresh charged battery, and 3) wait 2 minutes (without any drawing), watching for obvious color changes. This procedure should be able to convert the load to a dark brown (or more). Also, be aware that this test can get the battery very warm (perform this test only if absolutely necessary to confirm Box calibration).

    If the above procedure does NOT result in a definite and obvious browning, then please contact us directly via email and we will issue a new Box. Otherwise, if this test does result in obvious browning, then we recommend that you significantly slow your draw rate while using the Box. Drawing too fast will have the effect of cooling the screen, even while battery energy continues to be consumed -- slower and more even drawing tends to produce better results.

    As always, we remain committed to providing the best user experience with the Box that we can.

    -- Magic-flight

    PS: Several of our staff are on the road a lot these days (touring) and as such, please understand if our correspondence is occasionally delayed a bit (a day or two at most) while we find our way to the next internet access point.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  20. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Yes -- it should work fine. However, we do recommend that people load it with ground, unpacked material until it is level with the groove (but do not fill the chamber), even though this may be more than you would normally need. The instant on and instant off heating means that you can control the dosage via the heat and draw time. Remove the battery when you are done taking a hit and the rest of the un-vaped material can simply wait to be cooked later (even hours later). Vapor is only produced when you want it -- no heat latency means no wasted vapors. This is very different than most other vape units which must cook the entire load to completion once they have been started.

    Done properly, you get a constant vapor supply. The draw rate needs to be slow for this -- think of sipping from a teacup. If you pull too fast, it will get more airy -- your taste will be an immediate feedback and a good guide.

    Personally, given the right devices to ensure a fair comparison, I would think that vapor is actually more potent, but that it feels much less potent. To someone not used to vaporizers, they often cannot tell that anything is happening at all -- until about 3 minutes later: :o

    In actual practice, there are so many variables involved that it is really a matter of opinion about the relative merits of the devices used. In the specific case of the Box, it will produce somewhat thinner vapor than most Bongs (where vapor is mixed with smoke) -- this is by design. The Box is optimized for convenience and stealth. As part of the stealth aspect, the design attempts to produce only as much vapor on a second per second basis as can be fully adsorbed by the lungs -- this minimizes unwanted visibility and smell (both of which indicate wasted vapor). As such, the Box generates enough vapor to conveniently do the work without letting the person standing next to you know what is going on.

    -- Magic-flight

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  21. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    Neither -- it is simply more convenient and more efficient that way. By filling, you will be getting move overall vapor per charged battery. The battery will provide the same heat regardless if it is loaded or empty. Therefore, any part of the unit which is hot but not loaded is wasted heat (wasted battery charge). You may as well load it fully and get the full benefit of the battery energy. Also, by under filling, the vapor density (the ratio of vapor to air) will be somewhat less than that identified as optimal by our research.

    Since it can be arranged that the Box is only needs to be hot when you are actually hitting it, you get the benefit of having the vapor dispensed only when you want it. When not heating, you may as well think of the Box as 'storing' a very small amount of material. Because the Box is able to heat up nearly instantly (no waiting) it is convenient to use. Because the Box is also able to cool off again nearly instantly, it does not waste any vapor either -- this is one of the things that makes this vaporizer efficient.

    -- Magic-flight

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  22. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    It would seem so for the most part. However, there are some exceptions to this general rule. We have firm evidence that it is not be the case for all situations since some chargers are not as responsive to the needs of the NiMH chemistry as others. At this point, the overall consensus internally is that nearly all NiMH chargers will work with nearly all NiMH batteries, but that poorly built fast chargers are likely to diminish the overall longevity/life of the battery (the number of complete charge cycles).

    There are two main issues associated with battery charger quality: 1) the manner in which energy is delivered to the battery, and 2) the method used to determine when charging has been completed. In regards to charge energy delivery, there are two approaches: "slow charging" and "fast charging". In slow charging, energy is delivered at a low constant rate that does not require charge endpoint determination. This is the type of charger we bundle with the Box. They are not the "best" chargers, but they are reliable, simple, and safe.

    Fast chargers are much more complex (and thus more expensive), since they deliver energy at a much greater rate than the battery can sustainably withstand. For a fast charger to be "good", it must perform two tasks: 1) it must deliver charge current without surges, ripples, or spikes, and 2) it must reliably determine when the battery is full and shutoff the charge current. Failure in achieving either of these aspects will definitely shorten NiMH battery life (the number of recharge cycles and the max energy that can be stored per cycle). Specifically, the current delivered must be matched against the battery capacity. Also, if there are surges, ripples, or spikes, the battery discharge characteristics can be adversely affected. This in turn can result in a Box running either way too hot or way too cold, depending on the type of battery damage sustained. Furthermore, if the charge endpoint is not determined correctly, the battery can be overcharged, resulting it its getting very hot (too hot to touch) which will also permanently damage the battery.

    Unfortunately for fast charger manufacturers, determining when a NiMH battery is "full" is far from easy. The battery itself provides little indication of its internal state. There are three approaches generally taken: 1) use a timer to cut off current after a given interval, 2) to look for a specific sequence of battery voltage changes, and 3) to check the battery temperature and stop charging when the battery is hot. Each of these approaches has significant problems and is likely to fail if used exclusively. A good charger will need to test for at least two, if not all three, of these conditions to function reliably. It is in this respect that good chargers really stand out from their cheaper cousins -- they preserve battery life by not accidentally over-charging the battery. Many fast chargers on the market simply do not test for charge endpoint conditions very well or very reliably.

    All of the above is generally accepted 'fact' -- now for some 'opinion': It has been my experience that Radio Shack (Tandy corp) generally cuts corners whenever possible in their product designs and their chargers are no exception. I have on hand one of their 15 minute fast chargers which has been made specifically incompatible with other HiMH batteries via the use of hidden ID circuitry in the RS stock batteries (other non-RS batteries charge in slow mode only). While their newer fast chargers may not have this built-in limitation, they still have issues with charge current regulation and endpoint determination. I have some of our stock batteries (shipped back to us from a customer using a RS charger) which were definitely and identifiably damaged by a RS charger. While it may not be the case that all of the RS chargers will do this, it is known that at least some of them will. As such, I simply cannot recommend that people use RS chargers with our batteries. If people are looking for a good fast charger which we know to be reliable as an alternative to the shipped slow charger, we recommend using the Energizer 15-minute charger with our stock batteries -- this is the best overall all-around combination we can suggest for the needs of 99% of our customers. (Note -- the Energizer batteries themselves are not nearly as good -- take it or leave it).

    Finally, for the record, I should point out that we (Magic-flight) do not make the slow chargers that we bundle with the Box, nor do we have any agreements (formal or implied) with any charger manufacturers. We gain no benefit from our recommendations or advice in this respect -- we have absolutely zero association with Energizer corp. Also, as there are hundreds of different chargers and batteries (with millions of possible test configurations), we have NOT tested all batteries and all chargers. Our recommendations are based on best available knowledge to date. If someone on this forum has more, or more accurate, information, they are welcomed to bring it forward.

    Best,
    -- Magic-flight

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  23. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    In regards to technique, these are some questions to think about: is the load ground? (Finely ground loads are definitely best). Are you shaking the Box between hits to stir the material? How even is the browning -- are there still any green bits? (This could indicate unstirred material and/or not ground enough). How brown is it getting before you consider it done? (People who are used to smoking may want to continue into a dark brown rather than a light one to get a somewhat 'heavier' experience).

    In regards to the taste, you may also be getting the 'popcorn' significantly prior to the load being finished due to material that is adhering to the screen and not participating in the general shake and stirring process. When you dump the bowl, are there dark bits still stuck to the screen? If so, it is best to blow these off (a short sharp puff of breath usually does the trick), or use the provided brush to get these bits out. Some materials are more "sticky" than others and may be somewhat harder to grind and stir properly. With the box lid closed, turn upside down and tap the bottom. Then turn it sideways to see if all of the material is coming clear of the screen.

    Also, apologies for not answering your questions sooner -- many of us have been 'on tour' a lot these last few weeks and have not always been internet accessible.

    -- Magic-flight

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  24. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    ... when there is no mechanical stirring to redistribute the heat. Agreed.

    While it is true that, in general, convection vaporizers will be more efficient overall than conduction patterns, the performance gap can be narrowed significantly with various techniques and in some cases even dramatically exceeded! The Box performance is much better than any other vaporizer in its class due to the following four factors:

    - 1) The Box generates vapor only when needed -- it does not waste any vapor by staying hot between hits or by continuing to cook the load after you have had enough. Loaded material can continue to be cycled over any extended period of time, delivering vapor when you want it without ever having to wait or waste. Conscious user technique with the battery can ensure that there is zero lost vapor every time.

    - 2) The Box makes careful use of Infra-red characteristics in its design. While pure conduction designs tend do work very poorly, pure IR vaporizers (although very uncommon and very expensive) tend to be fairly good since they have overall heat distribution characteristics very similar to pure convection designs for smaller loads. The Launch Box is not 'just' a conduction vaporizer -- it is also has significant IR characteristics.

    - 3) The Box incorporates several vapor channel flow features to ensure the absolute minimum vapor condensation. Convection vaporizers necessarily need to use significantly more heat energy to operate efficiently -- heat which must be removed from the vapor prior to ingestion. Any surfaces, piping, or water chambers used to cool the vapor are also condensation sites. Condensed vapor is lost vapor and that means that a big pipe overall is less efficient. Any parts that require occasional cleaning also indicate a significant volume of previously lost vapor. Used naively, the Box rarely requires any cleaning since it delivers the vapor directly to you -- without converting some of it into black gunk along the way.

    - 4) Since the Box uses only and exactly as much heat energy as is needed for vaporization (the Box is easily one of the worlds most energy-efficient vaporizers), the enclosed chamber can be designed to allow for the simplest and most reliable form of mechanical stirring possible: shaking. By shaking the Box between hits, the previously ground load can be evenly re-mixed to ensure much more even heating. The clear lid also allows for immediate inspection as to determine both the effectiveness of the stirring and the degree of completion. In this way, good user technique can result excellent overall performance and efficiency.

    In summary, in-house lab testing has shown the Box vape to be nearly as efficient as the best convection vapes (when used correctly), and noticeably better than most.

    Finally, it is important to keep in mind that the Box is optimized for convenience -- it was never intended to be "the worlds most efficient vape". Dollar for dollar, the Box delivers more vapor in more locations more naturally. That is what it is about. What good is a 'super efficient vaporizer' when you don't use it because you don't have some place to plug it in and cannot wait five minutes for it to heat up? Getting fairly good efficiency most of the time is very much better overall (health wise and cost wise) than getting great efficiency only occasionally. For most people, actual practical convenience is much more important in real life than some elusive abstract ideal of "efficiency".

    -- Magic-flight

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
  25. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    671
    Location:
    USA
    The taste is dependent on technique -- to run the Box cooler, try drawing a little more quickly and do not wait. The correct draw rate -- not too fast nor too slow -- is something learned in time. Also, from the time that you put the battery fully in until you begin drawing should be fairly short -- less than 5 seconds. Finally, when you complete the draw, be sure to pull the battery out a bit right away so that the Box does not continue (needlessly) heating. Don't forget to shake -- its helpful to look through the cover to ensure that the stir is actually happening -- sometimes bits stick together and do not mix as much as needed.

    -- Magic-flight

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2014
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