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Aromazap/Myrtlezap/CeramicRockZap

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by Rick, Jun 8, 2009.

  1. max

    max This space available Staff Member

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    You've got to be kidding. :lol: :/ As lwien said, you can't feel lead exposure. It just builds up in the body. I'm not saying the zap produces lead exposure. I don't know that cheap 'made in China box vapes' are unsafe either, but I'm not taking any chances there either.

    As for chromium, it's used by the body for processing blood sugar and is found in meat, potatoes, cheese, breads, fruits and vegetables. In large amounts it's toxic but so are lots of things, including water. As for absorbing toxic amounts of it from a stainless steel heat exchanger, the melting point of chromium is over 1900 degrees C, while lead melts at 327 C, so how are you safe from lead while I'm exposed to dangerous levels of chromium?

    I'd start being very careful about what you're presenting on this forum as facts. And if you can't post the exact quote from someone else's post, and provide the link, then I strongly suggest that you refrain from reporting what others have said. Lately some of your posts have been irresponsible and not up to the standards we require on this forum.
     
  2. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    One other thing to consider. While just about EVERY restaurant uses stainless steel to cook "in" and "on" and uses it for washing their cooking utensils in, and uses it for storing food in, and not only do restaurants use this material for these uses, but so do people with high end kitchens, I know of NO restaurants or high-end kitchens that use lead for these purposes, so to state that lead shouldn't be a concern and that stainless steel is just as harmful, is just another opinion stated as fact, and as fact, it is wrong.

    Madcap, you just need to understand that there are a lot of people who have never been exposed to vaporizers before, and they are coming in here looking for "facts" to help them make up their mind in their quest for a healthier alternative to smoking, and we owe it to them to give them ACCURATE facts, and that if you are going to state an opinion, to one, do some research so that your opinion has some validity, and two, to not state an opinion as fact.

    For me, I would rather error on the side of caution, and not expose myself to any lead whatsoever, or at least limit my exposure as much as I can. Again, it's that risk/reward thing going on. If you feel that it's worth the risk because of the other things you like about the zap, so be it. Doesn't make you wrong in the least. We just need to be careful about what we post up here as "fact".
     
  3. Beezleb

    Beezleb Well-Known Member

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    1,780
    Can anyone show me any proof that indicates that this vaporizer is matter of fact unsafe to use?

    Of all the reasons why a restaurant would use stainless steel over lead is many reasons, not simply a safety one.
     
  4. owin

    owin Well-Known Member

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    Do they use brass for surgical equipment? Do they use stainless steel for surgical equipment?

    they = doctors of course
     
  5. Beezleb

    Beezleb Well-Known Member

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  6. Madcap Laughed

    Madcap Laughed Well-Known Member

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    well, max, im the only one here to defend the myrtlezap because anytime i mention it, i get a wave of people bringing it down and trying to call it inferior to the purple days(using a lot of false 'facts'), when yes, its true, in a lot of ways the myrtlezap is superior! and just the way its possible myrtlezap may have risks, so does the purple days. i tried to not mention the pd vape, but i see how hard that is when the pd is a direct interpolation of the zaps. and as for saftey the fact the purple days tube is made out of plastic is really scary when you realize that plastic is linked to so many estrogenic cancers(plastic mimics estrogen in the body). im glad the myrtlezap stem is made of nylon, much more safe!

    there seems to be such a fight to discredit the aromazap\myrtlezap and the tension is thick!
     
  7. tuttle

    tuttle Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Los Angeles
    That is trivalent chromium, hexavalent chromium which is released from stainless steel when machined is dangerous at any level, and is recognized as a human carcinogen via inhalation.

    Yes and yes. As you surmise stainless is used for instruments, and brass is used extensively in breathing equipment.
     
    Outlaw Farmer likes this.
  8. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    10,829
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    My justification is that I would rather error on the side of safety. Lead is dangerous. THAT is a fact. What isn't a fact is how much lead is in the brass that is in the vapor path of the Myrtlezap (heat exchanger and bowl), and IF that brass "could" be a danger due to it's lead content. I personally would rather not go with ANYTHING that has potential lead issues, and THAT is all the justification that I need.

    It's the exact same reason that I dumped my ProtoPipe, and is also the reason that I went with stainless screens rather than brass screens.

    So I TOTALLY disagree with you regarding my justification to error on the side of safety. I feel TOTALLY justified, but like I said before, the risk reward ratio is a very personal decision, and will not be the same for everyone. The ONLY person that needs justification is the one making the decision.
     
  9. Madcap Laughed

    Madcap Laughed Well-Known Member

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    reasons myrtlezap is superior to purpledays
    1.it has an awesome led light
    2.the heating port has a stainless steel screen, so the herb doesnt fall into the machine
    3.the myrtle tube is made of nylon, not 'plastic' like the purpledays
    4.zaps have been made by the same person since 2001, he's got it down to a science.
    5.the heat plate around the port has more holes in it, and looks to be more advanced that purple days
    6.the vapor hits on a myrtle are thicker and bigger than purpledays(and its much easier to hit a myrtlezap than a purpledays)
    7.the male stem inserts into the female port much snugger, so its not so loose that it would fall out without holding it all the time.
    8.myrtle wood is cooler and harder than cherry so it has less chance of cracking

    and lwein(i like your name by the way), lwein, dont you fear the chromium being relased as you constantly slide your stainless steel stem, against your stainless steel heatport then suck in all that vapor? wouldnt an all glass unit maybe suit your needs best, or at least make more sense to your logic! and yes, lots of stuff is made of stainless steel, but you dont heat and breathe in through most of the other stainless steel products(and yes, im aware of cookware, and thats where i read of the concerns of the toxic chromium being relased by), and where like beezlebub said, brass is used in lots of breathing equipment exclusively.

    ok i think i proved my point!
     
  10. Madcap Laughed

    Madcap Laughed Well-Known Member

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    i realize most of the people putting down myrtlezaps have probaly not even used one!
    [​IMG]
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    its not so scary is it? you act like the heating element is made out of lead when brass is just zinc and copper!
     
  11. max

    max This space available Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,983
    Aren't you afraid of chromium poisoning from the stainless steel? You can't have it both ways.

    What properties of nylon make it superior to polypropylene for use in a vapor tube? I don't think the difference in these two materials makes any real difference for this application.

    Actually, Tom built the first Myrtlezap, then Rick starting making them with the wood he got from Tom. They weren't round either (except for Tom's), until after the PD had been introduced.

    The heat plate? You mean the part that secures the heat exchanger? Why are more holes better? Do you know the purpose of the PD's crossbar design? I don't think you have anything concrete on this issue at all.

    "Looks to be more advanced"? What look does it have that says "more advanced"? The PD's heat exchanger is more advanced in that it has more surface area. More mass means better heat retention. I don't see the method of securing the exchanger as having any effect on performance.

    You have both a PD and a zap? I missed that. The only person on the forum I know of that has both units reported that the zap doesn't hold heat as well after the first hit, which makes sense, since as stated above, the PD's exchanger retains heat better.

    Please explain how myrtlewood is "cooler". Why does cooler = less cracking? And harder wood doesn't = better for a vape. Wood that's too dense doesn't retain heat well enough. Both Myrtlezaps and PDs have cracked. It's the nature of the beast. Glass can break. Wood can crack.

    What I like about that statement is that you used "I think". You don't use that qualifier enough. I don't care how much you want to praise the zap. Everyone's free to cheer the vape of their choice. But you continue to put out info you can't back up and announce it as fact. If you don't start separating fact from opinion with 'I think' or 'in my opinion', you're going to start finding these types of posts getting deleted. If you're not sure whether you'll be breaking the 'opinion as fact' rule, it would be better to be on the safe side. Last warning on this.

    First of all, the heating element is a ceramic resistor, not the brass heat exchanger you're referring to. Judging by your statement, I'd say you don't understand how this type of vape works. And various types of brass can also contain lead, aluminum, tin, arsenic, or manganese.
     
  12. Madcap Laughed

    Madcap Laughed Well-Known Member

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    no, because there is no friction between them. and can you have it both ways?:)

    nylon doesnt mimick female estrogen in your body

    tom sent the wood to rick, and rick made it.

    that was just a spin on tom saying he added more holes to the heat exchanger cuz more is better, i took his logic there.

    my roomate introduced me to vaping with the purple days, i got a box whip for myself and hated it. if you look in my myrtlezap thread, you'll see someone who got themselves a myrtle, and agreed the hits were bigger. i'll find the exact quote in a little!

    i meant cooler as in neat!

    i know that the heating element is an ROHS compliant ceramic heater. i was talking about the heating plate i pictured, sorry for not being clear!
     
  13. Madcap Laughed

    Madcap Laughed Well-Known Member

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    79
    i got rid of this post because its too long, but it was someone who had both a pd and a zap. if you want to read it, go to my "A piece of art:myrtlezap" thread, and its post 111 or something around that.
     
  14. CapnVape

    CapnVape Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    The Great Green North
    There's nothing in polypropylene that mimics estrogen. I think maybe you've confused polypropylene with polycarbonate, which contains bisphenol a, which can mimic hormones in our bodies.

    peace
     
  15. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,829
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    WTF ?? Tom added fins to increase the heating mass of the heating element so that it could retain heat better between hits. You taking his logic for his design concept of the heat exchanger by stating that the top plate of the Zap has more holes makes it better than the PD makes no sense what so ever as does 90% of the stuff that you are posting up here, like:

    Polypropylene mimics female estrogen in your body, therefore nylon stems are better? LOL !!!! WTF does that mean. Does it mean that you won't grow man boobs if you use the Myrtlezap? LOL !!!

    This is getting really insane.

    I really do hope that your posts on this issue gets deleted, not because you like the Zap better then the PD, but only because you are spreading about false and inaccurate information, and stating them as fact.
    (Fuck, now I'M sounding like a Mod wannabe...........)
     
  16. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,829
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Naw. I'd be saying the same thing if he was on the other side of this debate. He's stating inaccurate information as well as stating opinion as fact and THAT is my issue. Has nothing to do with the fact that he likes the Zap better than the PD. Hell, if he just stated that, and said that it was just his opinion, this thread would have half as many posts, because I wouldn't have said a thing.
     
  17. Madcap Laughed

    Madcap Laughed Well-Known Member

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    1.the holes comment was me taking the piss!
    2.yea, plastics are a serious endocrine disruptor. and especially when heated! 'Baby feeding bottles and other everday plastic items could be causing serious harm,' 'The Dangers of Common Platic - Biphenol A, (BPA) acts as a xeno estrogen endrocrine system disruptor.' 'Synthetic Estrogen Contaminating Popular Plastic Packaging' 'Plastic Bottles Leach Estrogen' 'Plastic Bottles Leach Estrogen'
    3.im not spreading any info thats false. you just disagree!
     
  18. Madcap Laughed

    Madcap Laughed Well-Known Member

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    i just cant stand you constantly berating the myrtlezap especially when i just got my new one today, and its the most beautiful semi-organic thing i've ever seen. it makes the purple days look like a pencil sharpener, which i know some people like! the lathe work is just incredible, and thats my point, the two people behind the myrtlezap care just as much, are just as good, and put as much into health and safety as the two people behind the purple days. thats all im saying! if you guys could see my zap, you'd know that the guy behind it, is an amazing artist, and the best at what he does. i want to take a picture, but im afraid of taking the soul out of this thing. cuz thing is alive!
     
  19. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    10,829
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Ok, with that comment, I think it's time for me to bow out of this thread because now I am convinced that I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
     
  20. owin

    owin Well-Known Member

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    The sad part is he is making the myrtlezap look less appealing. It's too bad there aren't more people using this vape. Instead there is a person making shit up and just continuing to look like a dumbass. Isn't one of the main rules of this forum to not state fact if you have no fucking clue what your'e talking about? I feel bad for rick.
     
  21. digglover

    digglover Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you completely. This is just absurd.
     
  22. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    yupyup to owin and digglover.

    madcap is nuts, and we should expect it with a name like that! :lol:

    Listen madcap, I couldn't care less which vape is better. A year ago we came up with the motto for this site of 'there is no best vaporizer'. Not only is that motto true, but it makes stupid conversations like this unnecessary. I don't think your limited experience with the PD makes you qualified to compare the two. I KNOW that your limited knowledge of vaporizers, as evidenced by your posts here, makes you unqualified to compare the two.

    The zap is a beautiful unit and is going to be perfect for some people. The same can be said for the PD. These units are probably more similar than they are different.

    The biggest problem you have is confusing people's problems with you for people's problems with the zap. The only time people come in here to kick ass is when you show up to compare these two vapes. And you ARE the one starting the comparisons. Please refrain from comparing these two vapes, as you are doing them both a disservice.
     
  23. Madcap Laughed

    Madcap Laughed Well-Known Member

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    5.i actually enjoy the mocking emails i get from you guys, and i do get a lot, because its nice to see new mail! even the pd maker sent me ominous emails.

    Mod note (from max): The rest of this post has been deleted. I left you this much in order to explain why you're getting a week's vacation from the forum. Not only do you apparently enjoy making trouble on the forum, since you admit "the mocking emails" are part of your payoff, but Tom has called you on your claim that he has sent you emails. Since Tom has no history here of posting untruths, while you have repeatedly misquoted posts, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to decide in his favor on this difference of opinion. In addition, although we don't have a rule against it (YET), it's in poor taste (to say the least) to report the content of private emails in forum posts, even if in general terms, as in "mocking emails".

    I hope, during your week off, you'll read many other posts on the forum and try to get a better understanding of how to post accurately, and avoid stating opinion as fact, and misquoting others. And I think you've said everything there is to say as far as supporting the Myrtlezap. Don't be a 'one trick pony'. Have something to contribute to the forum besides the same 'Myrtlezap is better than the PD' stuff over and over.

    If you have a real need to post just to satisfy yourself, without any regard for getting facts straight and trying to get along with others rather than enjoying pissing them off, then you'll have to find somewhere else to post. We've just recently had a long time member permanently banned for creating less disruption than you've wreaked in your short time here, so we're not exactly setting a precedent. The number one goal for this forum is providing good, accurate info, and you've been working against that goal for the most part.
     
  24. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Tom sending you ominous emails?

    Definition of ominous = portending evil or harm; foreboding; threatening;

    So now Tom is sending you threatening emails?

    You making this shit up like the other shit you've made up recently?

    I really do think that you stepped over the line on this one and am kinda sorry to see that Tom's response was deleted. He did react kinda harshly, but he surely has a right to defend himself against this kind of crap.

    You are taking the art of trolling to a whole other level though. I'll give ya that.
     
  25. Purple-Days

    Purple-Days Tom Manufacturer

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    2,722
    I'll put it more politely, but am glad someone saw what I felt. And really mean.

    Madcap, You are a liar. A deliberate liar. I have never sent you an e-mail.
    :cool:
     

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