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Arizer Air II

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by jakeattack77, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. LabPong

    LabPong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    A long way back..
    Meta....your abv looks diff. Is the Air2 on bottom?

    The people complaining about the A2 not being as good as the A1 said it did not produce as much vapor, or the 2 was weaker at extracting and they didn't think they got as lifted as they did with the A1 in comparison.
     
  2. metaknight

    metaknight Well-Known Member

    @LabPong yeah the Air II ABV is on the bottom.

    Arizer suggested to me to turn up the heat and slow down the draw. :hmm:
     
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  3. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,550
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Solid advice, I bet. That is doing those things will get you higher temperatures at the load and more complete extraction (faster). And darker ABV.

    If it really was convection, the advice would be to speed up the draw (and bring in more heated air), right? IMO the advice (and sound advice in this case) is based on the idea of not drawing extra COLD air into the load. In convection vapes like VG, Cera and the other TV units and so on hitting harder gives bigger clouds due to the added heat. Not so conduction vapes? With conduction you slow down and let the vapor form in it's on good time?

    As far as temperature goes, I think it's possible for five or even ten degrees of disagreement vape to vape, just because it has lots of digits doesn't mean it's more accurate. Since I sip herb I tend not to notice the differences often, but with TC oil vapes sometimes it takes 400F or even a bit more, dialed up on one to get the results another gives at 390F. I'm not to proud to kick it up (or down) a notch or two to get the results I'm looking for and recommend same. You're the only guy that really has to be happy in the end, and mere numbers that make that happen are secondary.

    Regards to all.

    OF
     
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  4. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge Retailer

    Messages:
    11,657
    Sometimes, but only if the heater can keep up. Sort of like the 7th floor vapes, there is a limit to how much of a draw you can take without overwhelming the heater. If that's the advise they gave, then it sounds like they think the customer is drawing too hard and overwhelming the heater at its current set temp. This wasn't possible with the original units with the built in restriction. Maybe they opened it up too much for heavy huffers. For the draw speed that is most comfortable to me, the Air 2 can easily keep up.
     
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  5. metaknight

    metaknight Well-Known Member

    I find that the unit is a lot less convection than Arizer seems to advertise. If I pull too hard it gives lighter vapor than if I pull slower, but there's a limit to how slow before there's a drop off in vapor as well. Since it's a hybrid convection/conduction, I feel like there's a certain draw speed that will produce the maximum amount of vapor.
     
  6. Alex3oe

    Alex3oe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Bavaria
    Ordered 2 Air 2s from Planet of the Vapes US for a friend and me. Took 3 days to Germany, now they stuck in customs for 5 days already :(
     
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  7. metaknight

    metaknight Well-Known Member

    Wow what a great friend, that's an expensive gift!
     
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  8. UnevenPizza

    UnevenPizza An Even Pizza

    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Mountains
    Haha, that's happened to me too. I guess they figure you're gonna be able to sit and focus on the vape for 90 seconds. 90s can be an eternity, anything can happen in that time, man!

    Also I would like a kind of shut-off countdown, sometimes if you don't press the buttons the right way they don't react (I mean, you have to purposefully press them, not just smack it. I may have been too unfocused..). So you could be pressing for 5 seconds and no reaction. But then it turns off.
    Not really a big deal once you get used to it but maybe for the Air 3 :lol:

    Damn Customs. My nano came all the way from California to central Europe in 3 days and then was stuck in customs for 2 weeks. Bad times.


    I've noticed that my Air 2 seems to get my AVB pretty dark. Not too dark, but more than with my OG Solo. I always vaped at setting 4, maybe 5-6 through water (depending on the time of day hehe), which with my M107 Model number I always thought was 175°C (about 350°F) , and with my Air 2 I run it at 355 to start, sometimes a bit higher, and through water I sometimes bump it up to 200°C sometimes, towards the end of the session. AVB is definitely more brown than green.

    Regarding the vapor production, I find drawing slowly for a few seconds, and then increasing draw speed/inhalation strength more until you reach a consistent speed.
    While you can draw full power from the start, or at least more than with an OG Solo, I don't think it's the best way for this Vape (at least if you want big hits).

    You may not be able to milk up a bong, to see the vapor accumulate I mean, but if you inhale slowly and steadily for 10-20 seconds, you will exhale a huge cloud!

    I just got myself a little ashcather and am running the air through it, with a whip.
    Totally chill.

    [​IMG]

    I'm going to the hardware store today to buy some wood, to make a stand for it, so it won't tip over.:sherlock:
     
  9. jdent3

    jdent3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    197
    I just wanted to say I've been using my Air 2 everyday ow for a few weeks and it has quickly become one of my favorite vapes of all time. One of the best parts is the ease of cleaning. All it takes is a quick iso soak of the stem and swab the chamber with a qtip and iso. I used to own an original Air and the one thing I always missed was the ease of cleaning. I sold 2 Mighty's because I got so tired of taking apart cooling units and changing orings. Not having to spend an hour every week or two cleaning vapes is a big plus. Now I spend about 10 minutes every week or two. This vape is a keeper!
     
  10. LabPong

    LabPong Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    185
    Location:
    A long way back..
    Yes.....I too enjoy the ease of not cleaning my Air or parts very often at all. I only use my Air with a water unit....so the only cleaning I ever do is the gong and screen in it. Takes me about 2 minutes with a couple q-tips and some ISO. This is the biggest reason besides great vapor quality and taste that this is always the go to vape for me when I want taste and big smooth vapor.
     
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  11. UnevenPizza

    UnevenPizza An Even Pizza

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    156
    Location:
    Mountains
    I like to change and clean screens in my stems, but I like to let them collect a bunch of condensate /honey and then make stem milk :)

    I love having that possibility as a backup if I am say, sick and can't or don't want to vape. Mmm.
     
  12. UnevenPizza

    UnevenPizza An Even Pizza

    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Mountains
    Just had a nice wake and vape session. Cup o' Coffee and some OG Amnesia in the Air 2 , at 350°F it's a great start to the morning :D
     
  13. metaknight

    metaknight Well-Known Member

    I love me some coffee with the Arizer in the morning. Gets me going :tup:
     
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  14. Alex3oe

    Alex3oe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Bavaria
    I'm not a coffee guy, but loving to vape some good hash along with a good chocolate drink.

    Meanwhile our Air 2s arrived. The Planet of the Vapes guys are really great, can only recommend them :)

    Sadly I'm not able to test mine in the near future.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  15. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,550
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Hey, Folks, a perhaps useful insight into the impressive heat up time and other anomalies can be seen in PIU's 'breakdown':
    http://blog.puffitup.com/2017/11/arizer-air-2-teardown-and-disassembly/

    As I 'read' this the heater is now a resistor (heater) stacked up with the sensor and bolted down? The interesting stuff (to me) starts about half way down. If you trace the four leads in the photos the two larger, uncolored ones are the heater. The heater is against the bowl (as it should) but this means the sensor is NOT reading load temperature in dynamic conditions (like making vapor where we need a heat flow to replace used heat in the load) but it's really reading the heater temperature on the other side?

    This explains to me how the temperatures can 'get there so fast' but yet not produce the same vapor levels as predecessors when they 'made temperature'. The displayed temperature it just not as representative of the load as before. With the old Solo you can easily get a step drop (9 degrees F) with a normal hit. The drop is instantly sensed and heater fired up to recover. Solo II doesn't show that drop? We know it's happening still, it's just not shown since I suspect it's not well detected. The new version is no doubt easier (and cheaper) to make, and it is more 'salable', but IMO it's less precise since it's depending so much on stored heat for the hit and has instrumentation that can't respond as fast/well as before. In Thermodynamics (heat FLOW, not static temperatures) sensor placement is critical to top performance, 'decoupling' the sensor even more from the load temperature (putting the heater 'in the way' is a step backwards I think. While we may be controlling the temperature of the heater better we no longer sense the load temperature nearly as well? Heater temperature is not important, load temperature is.

    Perhaps there is something to the reports from 'lesser forums' that vapor production is not 'up to snuff' WRT the original? If it's true, I have a ready theory as to why that might be.

    "Everything in life is a compromise, you might have less hair to comb but you also have more forehead to wash.....".

    Fun stuff.

    OF
     
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  16. sickmanfraud

    sickmanfraud Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,077
    If you want to maximize the "convection" like hits vs conduction I recommend the following:

    Turn Air/Solo OG and 2 on to top temp. Do not put a stem in the vape except when you are ready to hit the stem. Remove the stem between hits. The glass does add conduction, but I find the experience better when I don't just cook my medicine for 10 minutes.
     
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  17. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,550
    Location:
    Left Coast
    I think sometimes this is a useful technique, but it's still conduction. The results might be 'convection like' (in that the herb is heated to working temperature for each hit, and approaches from 'the low side' where vapor is mild), it's still conduction doing the work. The need for a 'heat soak' to get to full production indicates this? Convection doesn't do that, right?

    This technique does have advantages with 'working the lower temperatures' better. Nothing is free, of course. The flavor is sure to go faster as the 'light stuff' is stripped off earlier but it will be less harsh. But there's also a big time penalty to be paid, OK for those of us not in a rush.......but it seems there are fewer and fewer of us every day? Adding more time to a session is a deal breaker for some.

    FWIW I do this from time to time when I have a stem of something special tasty for instance, or when interrupted. It's a way of changing the time frame of the session from my POV. So I can enjoy it more a bit later.

    If it was a convection vape you could also simply put the load on top, above the glass floor plate? If it was convection it should still work normally since the heated air is still drawn through the load. Ever tried it? It doesn't work that way, at least not for me. Even cranking up the heat. My money remains on conduction. Convection might make guys feel better about their vape (since it's a 'fact' convection is superior......not so IMO, other factors swamp any effects often) and of course it SELLS MORE VAPES to make that claim to those same guys. Sales types often can't help themselves when 'a little white lie' sells more stuff? Bless 'em.

    And remember we can't draw 390F hot air into the load, give up some heat energy heating stuff and making vapor (dropping in temperature in the process) and still be 390F? The rules of 'take away'.....if you take away something (like heat energy to warm the load and make vapor) YOU DON'T HAVE AS MUCH LEFT AS BEFORE YOU STARTED. Real convection vapes heat the air much hotter than that so they can give up energy and still be 'hot enough'. T1, Evolution and Cera from ThermoVape had a 1300F heater for instance......for this very reason.

    "Convection like" to some degree perhaps, but no real convection going on........ At least by the rules I was taught as a lad.

    Regards and best Holiday wishes to all. IMO this is one of those special Holidays when we should pause and reflect on our many blessings. Where they come from and the prices paid for them.

    OF

    Edit: I shouldn't have stopped at the pictures (again.....). At the very end of that 'breakdown' it says:

    Closing Thoughts
    The Arizer Air was widely believed to be a convection / conduction hybrid vape but after fully taking apart the upper chamber and heater we can safely conclude the Air and Air 2 and most likely the Solo and Solo 2 are purely conduction vapes without any convection heating. Conduction is known for providing much better battery life than convection or even hybrid heating so the Arizer portable’s unusually long run time per charge makes a lot of sense. The build quality and materials used in the Air II are very sturdy and high quality which is to be expected from Arizer. The heating design is simple but gets incredible results; thick clouds and better flavor than most any other conduction vape due to the material being enclosed in the glass mouthpiece rather than making direct contact with the hot chamber. We’re huge fans of the entire Arizer lineup and recommend them nearly daily.


    "we can safely conclude the Air and Air 2 and most likely the Solo and Solo 2 are purely conduction vapes without any convection heating". Seems that Randy and company went to the same schools as I did......I don't recall him, but it was a long time ago.....

    Still, I of course agree. Not enough convection going on to merit notice. No need, it's doing a most excellent job as designed?

    Randy also brings up the important point that convection heating wastes a LOT of energy over conduction typically. With the very best 'batteries' available and very efficient insulation (Zirconia) Cera was only able to extend the T1 vape times to 20 minutes or so, much less if you let it cool between hits (which defeats the insulation to a large degree). Those same 18650s would go well over an hour in Solo/Air.

    Good point, Randy. Ya done good again. Now go home and enjoy the family?

    And thanks for your excellent products, fast delivery and matchless Customer Support. Quite valuable to this community for sure, but not mentioned often enough? As it is elsewhere in life these days.....

    Thank you, it is much appreciated.

    OF
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  18. UnevenPizza

    UnevenPizza An Even Pizza

    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Mountains
    This is interesting, maybe the chip or whatever inside it can calculate what the load temp is based on the temp the sensor reads, even though it's not actually measuring the 'load temp'?

    I haven't checked the teardown yet, just a thought.
     
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  19. jdent3

    jdent3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    197
    In the Puffitup article it says that if you take off the top plastic piece there is a seal that breaks and you void your warranty. Is this true? I took my plastic top piece off to see what it looked like I can't see how that would void my warranty.
     
  20. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,550
    Location:
    Left Coast
    For sure, this is done sometimes. Advanced controls, called 'PID' do this, like the cruse control in your car. You start up a hill and it senses it's going to be a tough climb so it opens up early on against defined rules. It then watches as it approaches the target speed (temperature in our case) and throttles back early to prevent overshooting. Again against defined constants. In a longer time frame it corrects for things like steady headwinds by 'sneaking up' on the goal using a third set of rules.

    But such schemes (now being used in top end e-cigs) are big improvements in many cases. Not so here I fear since the fundamental problems are two. Hard (but not impossible) to predict temperature drops so you can force the heater to a higher temperature to improve response......before dropping down in time to avoid overshooting and combustion. Knotty problem. In the trade this is referred as 'lag' often. Top end controllers include estimations of this as well.

    FWIW I found no evidence of this in Solo II when I did a brief poke around. While I don't have an Air II I strongly suspect it's the same basic deal?

    I predict this will lead to the same sort of problems the cloud chasers 'over there' seem to be having? I'm betting the heater keeps the sensor artificially hot as the load starts to cool off due to using heat to make vapor. Steady state it's fine, everything is at the same temperature. I think that useful relationship is going to fall apart faster here than with a sensor more closely coupled to the load.

    I am gratified to see mention of use of heat sink compound, somebody is obviously working on this.....and putting a potentially toxic (this time I think it could be real.....) compound in the air path. Many of them are ground ceramics in a Silicone Oil carrier. No 'medical grade' options here. The maker kind of missed that on the list of air path stuff, although they picked up on the ceramic part.....

    Fun stuff.

    OF

    Or not.

    OF
     
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  21. UnevenPizza

    UnevenPizza An Even Pizza

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    I think they mean the entire top, with the heater.
    The slitted cover just unscrews I think, haven't tried it but I don't think taking that off will void the warranty..if that was the case they should at least put it on tight or add a sticker wrapped around that part when you receive it.
    The Silver/Steel part below the top cover has two screws, in my case I can see them without moving anything.

    ..but don't take my word for it! Maybe PIU/Randy or Arizer could clarify it, I'm just a random guy online! ;)


    I never really thought about it being conduction, for some reason that always seemed inferior to convection, however both are better than combusting?
    Maybe that's just the attitude floating around the subreddits I was reading.

    I always thought about it like a kind of hybrid, going from convection to conduction over time, if that makes sense. At the beginning of a session you draw the hot air over the load, the glass starts to heat up. More and more the conduction kicks in?

    I sometimes vaped Hash without any flower or pads, just laid a sliver or ball of it on the screen in my GonG, so it was upside down, never in contact with the bottom or wall of the chamber/heater.
    I guess it could have just been heating the screen/top part of the glass stem, and therefore being at least part conduction.

    I guess the displayed temperature would be higher than what you actually end up drawing over the material, because it's further away from the heater, and therefore also the thermometer/thermostat/heatsesnsor. So if it reads 350 the temperature of the air that heats your material may only be 345 (or whatever, I'm not a physicist).


    I don't think I can really shed any light on it, so don't take my ramblings as a fact or scientific claim ;)

    I'm just enjoying my Air 2 this morning with some Coffee and Croissants, cheers!
     
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  22. jdent3

    jdent3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    197
    I hope they mean the entire top. I can't see a sticker that breaks when you open the plastic piece and can't see how that would void a warranty. I'l pm Puffitup on Reddit to confirm.
     
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  23. SameOldTim

    SameOldTim Previously Known as 'ThermoCoreTim' Manufacturer

    Messages:
    565
    Location:
    Redwood City

    Always some solid advice OF! I just now heard about these soloII and AirII, now to sort out if it's worth upgrading my old faithful solo OG.

    Cheers!
     
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  24. metaknight

    metaknight Well-Known Member

    Well if you're happy with the performance of your current Solo and there's nothing wrong with it, I don't see why you'd upgrade. If you want the added battery performance and the ability to change to what temp you want, especially that improved draw resistance, I would consider it. I really like the new Solo II, but there's nothing wrong with the OG Solo. It's a tough call.
     
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  25. UnevenPizza

    UnevenPizza An Even Pizza

    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Mountains
    I was just enjoying a small bowl in my big beaker. :science:
    I usually prefer to use a little bubbler type water piece for my Solo/Air 2, but I've seen some people on reddit ask about this kind of setup.

    I actually got some really intense flavored hits at the beginning, really fantastic. And after a while you can get denser/bigger hits. I ran it at 385-390°F because I wanna keep the AVB, but I guess you could get denser or more milky hits with a higher temp.

    I only took a few very large pulls and then turned it off. And between hits I was letting the A2 heat up again (I guess? It doesn't indicate that the oven needs heating up..but I think it needs at least a second or so to kind of get back to the set temperature). I liked how the solo would blink. But I do think it can also produce at least moderate vapor if you don't give it any pause between hits.

    And in accordance with the information above I do feel like it takes a while to get heated up to produce that good kind of vapour.
     
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