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Anyone try ABV Butter using a Mota Pot?

Discussion in 'Cooking with Cannabis' started by Solomon, Jan 1, 2015.

  1. Brewtus

    Brewtus New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Thanks for the info Solomon. When you use non abv, fresh erb do you adjust the ratio down from 10g since it will be more potent than the abv? If so what ratio do you use? Thanks for the insight!
     
  2. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,289
    Just got an Ilsa stovetop espresso maker, which I understand will "get er done" like a Mota pot ???

    Reading some info/ seeing some YouTubes, is it correct that the filler basket needs to be full or it will not work properly?
    Can anyone explain why that needs to be full (if so) as I don't get it. Base just gets hot and pumps the water/ coconut oil thru the herbage, on up into the top.
    What's up with that?
    Thanks
    Satchmo for size comparison.
    Six cup model which is 6 x 1.5 oz

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Brewtus

    Brewtus New Member

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    7
    My 6 cup mokka wasn't full. And it worked fine
     
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  4. Brewtus

    Brewtus New Member

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    7
    Hey lightning, thanks for the info. So I tried using abv and then fresh erb. The abv oil turned out nice and green but the fresh erb which was 3g to 2 Oz oil turned out barely tinted green. Still smells strong but I am wondering if I did something wrong based on the color.
     
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  5. BadDog No

    BadDog No Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    325
    Location:
    New England
    @Brewtus:
    Did you decarboxylate the herb first? Pretty sure I spelled that right...If you didn't, then you don't get full potency. No chemist here, but if you do a search I'm sure there are some explanations how it works and why it's necessary. And of course if you did, then a big "nevermind"! :lol:
     
  6. Brewtus

    Brewtus New Member

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    7
    I did,. In the oven on a small baking sheet for 55 minutes at around 225 degrees
     
  7. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

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    3,289
    Does the "grind" of the ABV matter? I have med/fine ABV--when I eat it raw with honey and peanut butter, I use mortar and pestle to pulverize it into powder.

    I'm hoping you can just use as is / no pulverizing necessary.
    I would think the coconut oil would extract from that ABV as is.

    Any experience??

    EDIT: would coconut oil/ cannabis product be viable as a pain lotion, rub on painful joints and muscles??

    EDIT: Just did a run. Is it normal for 1/8 cup liquid to remain in bottom when done? In frig, the 1/8 cup in bottom turned into some light tea colored water on bottom AND a small white slab of congealed coconut oil on top. Oil looks virgin white yet water has light tea color.

    Any benefit to take finished infused oil/water and put back in bottom portion and run another cycle? Would that extract even more???

    Awaiting the cooked batch from the top to separate out in frig.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
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  8. lazylightning

    lazylightning It's an obsession but it's pleasin'

    Messages:
    322
    Location:
    Oregon
    IME, the color is lighter than when I use a magical butter machine or crock pot. I don't think the quick extraction is able to extract much chlorophyll. Mine seems just as potent as other methods though.



    I always grind very fine, because the moka pot is designed for very finely ground espresso beans. It needs a fine grind to slow down the flow of water/oil. If it is too coarse, the oil/water will flow quickly into the upper pot without extracting all that much.

    You also want a nice tight pack all the way to the very top of the grind chamber and you want it tamped down tight, just like making an espresso. Again, this is to slow the flow of water/oil through the puck of grinds for full extraction. The moka pot is designed for a finely ground, filled and tamped puck of grounds.

    The heat should be on med to med-high so that the water starts flowing at a slow trickle into the pot. A lot of the water will come through before the oil. I sometimes lift the pot off the heat for a second or two here and there so that the oil continues to flow at a nice slow, even trickle into the pot.
     
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  9. Brewtus

    Brewtus New Member

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    7
    Thanks for the Reply lightning. I just my regular erb grinder which I think might have been the problem. Live and learn I guess. Thanks again.
     
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  10. nickdanger

    nickdanger Well-Known Member

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    206
    Location:
    Fly-over Country
    I'm excited to try this, as I accumulate very little avb due to being a lightweight vaper. The MBM was interesting, but just going to require too much product for me to use. Can someone please clarify what size Moka is needed? I would be using it for 1 stick (1/4 lb) of butter at a time. I am seeing 4 cup and 6 cup referenced here, and assuming the 2 cup model on Amazon is way too small. I'm thinking the espresso cup is not what I consider a cup...
     
  11. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,289
    Lightweight here too. Just got my espresso maker and have done run #1 and in process of run #2.

    I got 6 cup and it says that is for 6 "espresso cups" of 1.5 oz each or 9 OZ liquid.
    Yes---not what most consider a cup.
    I used a reducer to make basket smaller- so it held about 4 grams of dry ABV.
    Looks like about 7 grams without the reducer.

    Run #1 left a little water in bottom and about 30% of the coconut oil in the bottom, still virgin when cooled / solidified.

    going long on this run, lowest temp and 35 + minutes.
    It keeps steaming and gurgling BUT I don't see the top reservoir getting any fuller....
    Any tips on when to tell it is done/ all water and oil from bottom has gone up and done it's job????
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
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  12. nickdanger

    nickdanger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    Fly-over Country
    So, an espresso cup is 1.5 oz each?!! That's even way smaller than I thought. So I suspect the 4 cup model would not do a stick of butter, correct? What is this reducer you are using to make the basket smaller? I think I might need that also.
     
  13. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,289
    My 6 cup bottom holds, 18 grams of coconut oil + 12 oz water, filled it to the bottom of the blow off valve.

    I'm new to this so others will have better experience, but mine would probably hold 3 sticks of butter?
    Hopefully a fc'er with a 4 cup will jump in.

    Mine is an Ilsa which I got cuz I'm a lightweight and it has a sweet built in reducer setup: a tiny ledge in the herb basket and a stainless round perforated plate that can sit on the ledge and reduce basket size by about 1/2. Good for now and "someday" ---when I'll have much better access/supply :)
    I have no idea if others have this feature.

    Today I tried to correct possible mistakes from run #1 so :
    -used reducer basket with 3 G of pulverized ABV, run 1 was direct from ABV jar. Volume steps way down when pulverized. LazyL mentioned fine grind and tamp it down so I did.Run #1 was tamped down but not super fine.
    -still leftover space so dug out run #1 wet ABV that might not have been toasted long enough and had room for that on top of dry ABV. So 7 grams dry weight of all my ABV.
    - 18 G of oil, not sure of how much to use so guessed
    - let simmer for 35 minutes. Bottom was mostly empty with under 1 teaspoon of oil and a tiny 1/4 teaspoon of water.
    - would even longer simmer have used more of oil or is leftover oil under a teaspoon normal???

    Brew seems much darker, deeper color from run #1 ???
    Awaiting stratification---
     
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  14. lazylightning

    lazylightning It's an obsession but it's pleasin'

    Messages:
    322
    Location:
    Oregon

    It shouldn't take more than about 4-5 minutes for the water/oil mixture to be forced up through the puck of ground cannabis.

    Here's a video I made of one of my first batches...top pot starts filling with water at 2:25 and then the oil starts at about 3:55. It takes just about 4 minutes to complete the extraction once the water starts filling the pot. I never see any coconut oil left in the lower pot.


    Click to play YouTube Video
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2016
  15. funkyjunky

    funkyjunky tubo.lamart.ch Manufacturer

    Messages:
    303
    hey everybody,

    i recently came across the percolator coffee brewers:
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffee_percolator
    as this system automatically does multiple liquid cycles i thought it might be in our interest. i read ppl doing several washes, i also recommend this. with a percolator coffee maker it would be washed continuously and depend on time on the stove only.

    so, per chance, has anyone already one and would be willing to try this out? :D

    the materials would go where coffee grounds are in the pic. and brewed coffee (its pure water when starting) should be replaced with an water/oil mixture, maybe more on the oil side, needs testing...
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  16. momofthegoons

    momofthegoons vapor accessory addict

    Messages:
    12,725
    I have a Magic Butter machine, but haven't had any success making butter or oil with abv in it. After checking this thread out, I found an inexpensive but good quality Moka pot at my local Home Goods store and decided to give this method a try. I have a ton of abv stored up and have been looking for a way to use it.


    I haven't tried the results yet, but it looks good. :D I'll report back on how strong the cookies ended up. But here is a pic of the coconut oil after one abv run through the Moka pot.

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    414
    Location:
    up on a mountain
    Enjoy!
     
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  18. Ricardo

    Ricardo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    An island somewhere.
    Interesting thread! I want to try this but I'd be shot if I used the expresso pot for anything other than making coffee. :D Haven't read the whole thread but wouldn't using butter be incredibly gooey and messy? And wouldn't heating oil in what is basically a mini pressure cooker be kinda dangerous?
     
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  19. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,289
    .........................................

    I made a batch with 7 grams of ABV, used water + coconut oil in the bottom.
    Worked fine, have not yet sampled it.
    Cleaned up fine so my stovetop espresso innards are just like new.
     
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  20. Ricardo

    Ricardo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    An island somewhere.
    I'd just be terrified to boil oil and have the thing explode in my face :ugh:
     
  21. funkyjunky

    funkyjunky tubo.lamart.ch Manufacturer

    Messages:
    303
    as long as water is present in the mixture it wont go above 100degrees celcius. also there is a pressure valve. exploding mokka pot, not happening.

    edit, ok slightly higher than 100degC because elevated pressure.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
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  22. MinnBobber

    MinnBobber Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,289
    ......................................
    Me too, but it has a safety valve/ blowoff pressure valve in the liquid chamber --thankfully
     
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  23. SirNDPT

    SirNDPT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Here
    A great thread ladies and gentlemen. Many thanks for the voices of experience rather than theory.

    I have been using cannabis for more than 35 years; for the past 10 years or so I have been vaporizing. I just made my first ever batch using the water and butter method (maybe I should have read this thread before, not after!) and have a couple of questions, if anyone can help.

    I started with about 225 grams of butter and 14 grams of finely ground, ~12% THC buds. Brought it up to temperature and then simmered gently for about 5 hours. I did not decarboxylate beforehand because I knew I would be cooking it at low temperature for a long time... and I do understand why it is necessary to do so when using the mocha pot method – which I will use next time.

    I wound up with about 140 grams of cannabutter. Is that loss normal or reasonable? It’s about 40%?

    When I did the calculations, I apparently have about 1,500 milligrams of “pure” THC in my 140 grams of butter – about 10 milligrams per gram of butter.

    I spread about a 2 grams (20 milligrams of THC) of butter on the flat side of an oatmeal cookie (it was delicious, BTW) but experienced very little effect, if any. What is a reasonable dosage? “They” say about 10 milligrams… I tried what I thought was 20? I don’t want to overdose. I have done that 3 times in my life: the first, the last and the only!

    Any advice before I step up the dosage?

    Thanks.

    What would I do without this forum?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
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  24. SirNDPT

    SirNDPT Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5
    Location:
    Here
    One more question: Any advice on the pros and cons of butter vs. coconut oil... or olive oil? :)
     
  25. funkyjunky

    funkyjunky tubo.lamart.ch Manufacturer

    Messages:
    303
    top of the head

    advantage of butter cocooil: solidifies when cooling down, separation of water olive oil mix is a mess wi home utilities.
    disadvantage butter: goes bad the fastest of these three

    also there is some reasoning that MCTs (medium chained triglycerides) are metabolized fast by the human organism. out of the three and in general coconut oil leads on mct content. some say therefore thc is more efficiently and faster metabolized when in coconut oil compared to other oils/fats that tend to get stored in fat tissue more (including thc), thc in fat tissue is dead until that fat is used up, maybe during next winter... :)
     

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