Discussion in 'The Vapor Lounge' started by charliedontsurf, Jan 6, 2011.
Hi, I'm a german homebrewer since 2003. Just started an education as BJCP judge. So I'm happy to notice this thread.
After some years of drinking and brewing a lot of PAs and IPAs with high IBU I cant see the most of them anymore especially homebrewed ones. It's obviously that a lot of homebrewers and microbrewers are thinking 'the more the merrier' regarding hops and bitterness despite harmony of taste. It's reminiscent of chilli heads where a lot of is acting like 'I can stand hotter!' It's a little bit like a pubertal dick-measuring contest.
Meanwhile I love sours, belgians and am coming back more and more to good german lagers cause of their excellent drinkability. Aside of this I discovered the ancestors of all the american PA and IPA, british ales. Try them they are worth it and an whole another - and very nice - experience if you get the good ones!
If there are any questions about german beers and demands on recommandations do it.
Here in the US, there is certainly a contingent that is ever pushing for MORE! (I am probably as guilty of that as anyone). However, there are also movements on lower alcohol beers and sours appear to be really taking off now. Oh, and barrel aging everything but your mother.
Having said all that, two of the best beers I've ever had were Guinness and Pilsner Urquell at the breweries. Pilsner Urquell is like drinking velvet wrapped in silk.
For sure. The more often you are tasting beers with higher IBU the better you can stand the bitterness. Its a kind of desensibilization. Today I'm using more hops than some years ago too when brewing high hopped beers.
Nice barrel aging is pretty difficulty. Same as everywhere, sometimes less is more. Here less wood would be more tasty.
PU directely drunken in Pilsen is delicious, in normal kegs higher average and in bottles average.
In Germany you can find at some places 'tank beer' from PU. Fresh and unfiltered. Thats nearly so good as in Pilsen.
If you like Guiness try to get 'Schwarzbier' from Störtebeker, a german brewery. Taste is similar to Guiness but much better.
im hooked on the ape, cant really describe the taste...i just drink it.
Must admit, I am a typical US hop-head that always craves more IBU's. Give me dry-hopped madness with no final filtering and I'm in heaven! Fortunately for me, many local small brewers are going over the top with this from sessions to 10+ ABV doubles & triples.
But, definitely get and appreciate all you're saying. A friend of mine who is a super-chemist and blooming brewer recently explained how hops have often been used to cover up imperfections in the brew, and I've seen too much of that also.
I do also like well done Belgians and have been on a real Farmhouse/Saison kick. Some good stuff out there, and some of the beers I've found recently from Belgium are truly amazing! This one is my current favorite. Very high ABV @ 9.5 (especially for a Farmhouse/Saison), and always pricey, but I can't resist having at least one on those rare occasions I come across it on tap. I dare say it may be my perfect beer lately. Just wish I could have a few and not be wiped out! If you see this on tap, just do it - even if a short pour for around $10. Your tastebuds will thank you!
But up from a certain point (~ 80 IBU) you can add hops so much as you want sensory perception of bitterness doesn't increase anymore. So fuck '160 IBU!' It doesn't matter.
Regarding hop flavours I like intense flavours too but it has to be harnonically.
Needless to say, as with our other favorite green budding plants,much has to do with the hop variety. Mosaic has become a big favorite of mine, and don't get bittered out by it as much as one of the Big C's or Nugget.
Did you ever have tried german 'Saphir'?
One of my top varieties. Try a classic 'Bock' with it or a 'Pils'
A phantastic commercial Bock with Saphir is 'Schönramer Saphir Bock'. Really awesome Bock with wonderful flavours of Saphir.
I'm getting bored by all the C-hops. Love them but getting bored...
Adding both to my wish-list. Thanks!
I can sense when hops take over a brew that is lacking in other areas. Pick just about any 'session ipa' (wtf?) and use as exhibit a. I can also sense when the hops are front end yet backed by a good supporting cast (which can't be too malty in my book). Framing flavorful hops is important to me. The hops need to stand out. I don't like just any pa or ipa. They're different from lagers. I won't enjoy a brew that tries to blend different ingredients to the point that none is alpha. Just me though.
Unique for Lagunitas but not without the usual
And also as usual for Lag...perfect with miss Jane..
Today was a good day.
I have to disappoint you. The best beer is from Czech :-)
if you like diacethyl! There are a lot of awesome beers in Czech. But the best known dont belong to them
Yes quantity is often at the expense of quality. I'm not saying they are all super.
What is your bad experience? Perhaps it will not be so bad ...
For example Czech Budweiser is one of the best known but one of the worst too. And PU you can only enjoy directely at Pilzen or as a - fresh - tank beer.
PU is good elsewhere. But it depends on the care of the pipeline. This is neglected today. I know pubs where the beer is perfect as in Pilsen.
Budvar has a lot of people the same as you. Hard to say. I've been drinking a good bit. But normally I would not give it :-)
Made some wheat beer, finally done fermenting so I'm racking to a secondary. I always split my 5 gallons into one gallon jugs and flavor them all separately.
This time I got my hands on some Candyland trim, and some infused honey.
For the gallon I added 30mg of CBD (3:1 CBD/Indica) and 50mg of Indica infused honey, and I also added 5 tablespoons of local honey (non-cannabis). In addition I added 65 grams of trim for it to see on.
Another one gallon is sitting on just 42 grams of trim (no THC or CBD infused, just going for color and aromatics).
The other three gallons are a strawberry rhubarb, strawberry banana, and a raspberry (from my bushes).
I guess I'm a serious beer nerd. I have been brewing since '96 and have gone through many stages as a homebrewer.
I'm currently a season brewer who focuses on fermenting based around the temperature of my house. Spring is wit season, summer is saison time, fall is all about Cascadian Dark Ales and winter is time for IPAs and more IPAs (none over 6%). I occasionally will brew an oyster stout after my friends and I eat around 200 oysters in a night.
I also brew a 100% Brett c. session (3 to 4%) IPAs year round (similar to the style of Prairie and Crooked Stave), have a 59 gallon wine barrel full of Flanders Red (used mostly to blend with fruit) and have recently started making coolship beers (cooled and open fermented in my brewery (converted bay of a garage) over night in a stainless hotel pan under a spinning disco ball, and then transferred into a carboy for fermentation).
The coolship method I use is based off the methods I learned from visiting with the brewers at Cantilion and deGarde. Neither uses a disco ball though. I just want to create a party for the bugs to facilitate better fermentation.
And does the disco ball increases activity?
Started with homebrewing in 2002. I love temperature controlled fermentation. To much and often hazzle and unwanted off-flavours otherways.
I'm only making 5 gallons at a time, but I follow a very similar pattern.
Yes, spring is for witbier. I believe a wit fosters vitality for the body as it's coming out of winter. I also believe the yeast gives me the gout almost every March.
I am brewing some good lawnmower ale tomorrow for the warm days of summer. I went through what's left in stock and decided to go with equal parts pilsner malt, vienna and some light munich. I think I have some german hops in the freezer. I don't lager, but I'll keg it and throw it in a cooler for a couple weeks.
It's not cask conditioned but I also make a easy drinking British session ale, like a mild, and put it through a nitro beer-gas tap.
Of course not; maybe the increased airflow created by the ball spinning? According to brewers I've talked to, the primary fermenting agent is probably staphylococcus (scary) in coolship beer. I'll measure alcohol/pH to determine whether I've killed the staph before I pull a sample. The coolship beers all have a very distinct flavor (Wicked Weed, Cantilion, deGrade, even my version) that I haven't tasted with any other process. With mixed culture beer, I (and many other home and professional brewers have success without exacting temperature control (Societe being an outlier (they regulate temperature and exact pitch rates in their barrels in a glasses in/humidity and temp controlled room)). With that said, my process for fermenting clean beers is different.
I do have a fermentation chamber where I regulate temperatures at the end of the fermentation process of 100% Sacch and 100% Brett strained beer. I like to ramp up temps a few degrees to increase yeast activity, which aids in cleaning up off flavors. For the most part, I pitch at a degree or two below the suggested lowest temp for the particular strain, let the yeast free rise in my fermentation chamber with the door open (to get it to just above my basement temp which is near middle to top of the suggested temperature range). I'll monitor the free rise/krausen production and when fermentation slows (measured mostly by temp/reduction in activity/krausen drop), I'll shake the fermenter and ramp up the temperature to get to terminal gravity (measured by refractometer). I season brew not only for the temperature, but mostly because I like the taste of those beers in those seasons.
I find that a healthy pitch rate of yeast grown in the right environment (stir plate) is probably the single most important part of fermentation (as long as you're sanitary). Happy yeast and bacteria make happy beer.
I love belgian beers and their open fermentation with brettanomyces.
Your way seems the best to me if fermenting without temp controlling. Have worked so for around ten years. Meanwhile there is a 450l freezer with pid temp control. Enough for two 60l fermenters. In the past I had some beers which were not satisfying for me cause of oof-flavours cause of - mostly - too high temps during fermantation.
BTW are you interested in seeing some German brewing gadgets? There are some nice ones.
For example do you know this one? The Anton Paar EasyDens (from Austria) is a meter for absolute correct measurement of density and concentration. One of the managers of Anton Paar is a homebrewer himself, who is user on the biggest homebrewer forum in German spoken area www.hobbybrauer.de, where I'm a mod since a few years. His engagement in developing this device was a project dedicated to all homebrewers, especially for the user of the called forum. This is really a high end product for cheap. If you like correct datas that it is.
If you should want more product recommandations from Germany just one word.
I feel like I just glimpsed into homebrewing's future today. I am gong to have to get this. Reinheitsgebot be DAMNED, you Germans have created (and are still creating) some of the best parts of brewing.
YES, MORE GERMAN BREWING PRODUCTS! Please.
I agree that temperature does cause A LOT of off-flavors. Especially under high temperatures (I haven't had that issue since living in Tucson, AZ).
My basement stays an average of 17 degrees year round. Winter gets down to 15.5 C, which is why I'll brew IPAs at that point. I also brew California Commons (Anchor Steam style beer) or the occasional big (10-12% beer) during winter. I have two PID controlled keezers: one for sparkling water and mixed culture beers and the other keezer for three taps of clean beer. I just gave a partially working keezer to a friend (the freezer won't stay below 5 C to save it's life) cause he likes coldly fermented beer. I don't ferment cold.
I haven't brewed a lager since 1999 (dry hopped with green tea). My guild mates brew some amazing Czech style pilsners EXCEPT they do a huge (150-200 grams for 39 L) whirlpool hop addition at 70 C for 30 minutes before dropping the temperature to pitch the yeast. The hops they use are typically (in no order): Crystal (USA), Nelson Salvin (NZ), or Hallertauer Mittelfrüh (Germany). They'll typically dry-hop with a combination of the above hops too. Low ABV (4-5.5%) and low IBUs (except for the terpenes given off by the whirlpool and dry hop additions).
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