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American Exceptionalism? Bah.....

Discussion in 'The Vapor Lounge' started by lwien, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    So every time I turn on Fox News all I hear about is how American exceptionalism should be the shining beacon that should be held up as an example for the rest of the world to follow. In other words, "Our shit don't stink but yours does so follow us !!"

    Well, the next time you hear anyone talk this way, have them take a look at this vid: http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/19/how-u-s-is-lagging-on-quality-of-life/

    Some mind-blowing results in how we compare with countries who we look at as inferior.

    And for a detailed analysis of how they put together these numbers, check out the following:

    http://www.socialprogressimperative.org/system/resources/W1siZiIsIjIwMTQvMDQvMDIvMjAvMTkvNDQvMjcyL1NvY2lhbF9Qcm9ncmVzc19JbmRleF8yMDE0X01ldGhvZG9sb2dpY2FsX1JlcG9ydC5wZGYiXV0/Social Progress Index 2014 Methodological Report.pdf

    (Mods..........don't know if this should go into the NEWS thread or if it deserves a thread of it's own. Your call.............)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
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  2. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

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    I guess what irritates me is the powers that be in America think that we need to police the world.

    I was so pissed when George Bush invaded Irag. Trying to tie that in with 911 when the Twin Towers fell in NY.

    People were so sensitive if you said anything negative about going over to Iraq. I had relatives telling me I was being unpatriotic. We were fighting them over there so they wouldn't come over here, saying exactly what George Bush was saying. It was such a weird time in America. I was being unpatriotic because I didn't want American service folks to die or lose body parts over in another country. Iraq didn't declare war on America.

    What about the innocent Iraqi lives that were lost or changed forever because a death of a loved one.

    So after all this time now that we left Iraq, we have to go back over there? I Hope Obama doesn't get us over our heads. After all this time Iraq's army can't take care of their own country? Agreed we went over there to begin with. Plently of people said all along that as soon as we left Iraq would turn into a mess. They have unresolved religious issues that they have been fighting about for thousands of years. One religion against the other.

    This country isn't any good at nation building over in other countries. Don't get me wrong I appreciate our soldiers who risk their lives for us everyday.

    We need to clean up our own country. They can't even pull off a fair election in some parts of the U.S. How about the fiasco in Florida that's happened more than once.

    We have more murders in America than any other developed country.

    I love living in America, but let's quit acting like we're better than everybody else.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
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  3. aesthyrian

    aesthyrian Blaaaaah

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    Hell, just take a look out our own CIA's world fact book.

    Here is a "fun" one https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html

    Yep, Cuba is better than us at ensuring that their infants don't die. We are #169 out of 224 countries, the higher the ranking, the lower the infant mortality rate.

    I really don't understand why we collect this information since we clearly don't use it to help realize and fix problems within our society. Maybe the other countries do though, good for them.
     
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  4. bigmarv999

    bigmarv999 Active Member

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    this is why other countries hate us
     
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  5. basement farmer

    basement farmer My face is melting...

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    One of the best comments I've read regarding this matter expressed the fact that it's naive to assume that all societies can handle democracy and the rule of law. Another mentioned the fact that the US assumed that because the allies were able to reduce Berlin and Tokyo to ashes and they subsequently were able to rise as economic global superpowers and pillars of modern governance that the same should apply to Baghdad.

    I became an adult in the 80's when the boogeyman was Communism and we were still stinging from our mis-adventures in Vietnam. You'd think we'd have figured it out by now, but apparently not. We're slow learners.
     
  6. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    We have logged all of your ip addresses, and will be monitoring your activities henceforth :ninja:
     
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  7. Crohnie

    Crohnie Well-Known Member

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    Amen! Every time I hear the term "American Exceptionalism", I throw up in my mouth. I'm as patriotic as the next American, but the USA (Or any country) has no right to exceptionalism. If anything, American Exceptionalism is the number one attitude that has brought the USA down and is the cause of many of our problems. Sigh...


    EDIT

    Dear Dick Cheney: STFU already!
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  8. GrilledGoat

    GrilledGoat New South Vaper

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    Wow this is very true I believe. A certain amount of social evolution must happen in a society to enable it to even consider democracy. I have been to the middle east twice (Turkey and Kuwait) and I have to say that that region of the world is (as far as I observed) too rooted in archaic thinking (religion) and violence to even be ready to adopt democracy. I went to see a football/soccer game while I was in Kuwait and a man HAD ONE OF HIS HANDS CUT OFF FOR ADULTERY! Also I remember that a Kuwaiti paper ran a short story that someone translated for us that was about a young couple being brought into jail for kissing in public. More tolerance within their people, not invasion, can give the middle east peace.

    I believe that the US gov't (The Ruling Class) is exceptional; at being VERY short-sighted and naive.
     
  9. bigmarv999

    bigmarv999 Active Member

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    money is the root of all evil.
     
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  10. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    Power corrupts, and... well you guys know the rest
    :horse:


    It reminds me of that 2112 rush album:

    Attention all planets of the solar federation...
    WE HAVE ASSUMED CONTROL.
    :borg:
     
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  11. Curiousone

    Curiousone Well-Known Member

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    Not to be insulting to anyone...But we did not invade Iraq to spread democracy. That is the cover we've used for decades (when entering foreign lands), but we are only concerned about protecting our interests. If in the process we make those countries better for their citizens, great. This is not our main objective.

    Don't be fooled by much of our actions in the world. They are born out of self-interest, which is why we are so hated...I'm american and love my country, but i'm not naive about what we've been up to and why.
     
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  12. aesthyrian

    aesthyrian Blaaaaah

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  13. CarolKing

    CarolKing Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur

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    [​IMG]
    I see the Republicans dusted Dick Cheney off. That should be enough to scare the shit out of the American public. Some people have a short memory. I don't vote republican but Ron Paul is the newer brand of republican. They need to put Cheney back in the retirement home for disgraced politicians.

    Rand Paul warns against going back over to Iraq.

    I had mistakenly called him Ron Paul, similar name. I did some editing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2014
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  14. GrilledGoat

    GrilledGoat New South Vaper

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    Ron Paul is out of the game I thought? Also I would not consider him a Republican, he claims to be Libertarian. Libertarianism is rather radical but I believe it is the future of the "fiscal right" -- not the "christian right" or the "conservative right".

    Rand Paul is NOT a Libertarian - he seems to be just a more level headed Republican.

    Fuck the right! Fuck the left!
     
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  15. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    Rand is a curious one indeed. Part libertarian, part tea partier, part republican. Definitely not a neocon, that's a big plus. He's got a lot of his father in him, maybe too much maybe not enough. Crazy like a fox?
     
  16. Crohnie

    Crohnie Well-Known Member

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    Cheney needs to STFU! How dare he criticize the situation now when he was the one who got us into Iraq under false pretenses.

    "We'll be greeted as liberators."
    "The war will only last a few months."
    The war will cost from $40-60 Billion."

    Dick Cheney
     
  17. GrilledGoat

    GrilledGoat New South Vaper

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    @Crohnie A few months meaning anywhere from 3 to 105.6 :huh:
     
  18. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    How about afghanistan, amurika's longest war EVER...
    At least we've gotten control of the world's opium market :tup:
     
  19. GrilledGoat

    GrilledGoat New South Vaper

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    Oh I know right... going on 13 yrs...

    the cost of permanent war is too high


    Is it not odd that the US is fighting such a long war but there is no major public outrage? The press is strangely silent. Why???
     
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  20. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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  21. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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  22. pigfoot

    pigfoot Dabs are vaping too!

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    Just some thoughts.....
    These ideas "we Americans" supposedly believe, are just the wishes of the Boys (& some Girls) at the top.
    The aforementioned boys & girls at the top don't give a shit about you and I, things aren't done for our benefit, but for their real bosses. The recent wars have been "regime change" only. They have utterly destroyed the fabric of those countries, not made them safe for Democracy.
    The US was not created as a Democracy, but as a Constitutional Republic. It's now more like an Oligarchy than anything else. The politicians that compose the two parties are exactly the same, they drink together, party together, and are generally buddies. They pretend to have massive differences and be rigidly opposed to the other group, but where it counts, (massive debt, more wars and reduced civil liberties) they are completely in agreement.
     
  23. grokit

    grokit power cosmic

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    Yup, two wings of the same bird, no matter how you vote the flight plan never fucking changes.
    :mental::disgust::bang::rip:
     
  24. tuk

    tuk Well-Known Member

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    On one hand I hate nearly everything America stands for on the other hand If I had to make a list of my all-time favourite people from history about 70-80% would be American......complex place America!

    On the subject of all-time favourite people from history check out this poetry reading from 1956....you have to understand how way back in ye olde 1956 this is just fucking GREATNESS at the highest level!

    America when will we end the human war?
    Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb
    I don't feel good don't bother me.


    America I used to be a communist when I was a kid and I'm not sorry.
    I smoke marijuana every chance I get.
    I sit in my house for days on end and stare at the roses in the closet.

    When will you be worthy of your million Trotskyites?

    America why are your libraries full of tears?

     
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  25. pigfoot

    pigfoot Dabs are vaping too!

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    What do you think America "stands for"? Some ideas the politicians promote? The founders believed in leaving other nations alone, for the most part. People the world over are essentially the same. They want to be left alone to think, play, work and love. America had greater personal freedom, and thus better economic development than others. This freedom is a thing of the past. We are under constant surveillance now, and freedom requires privacy.

    The political class seek only power. To get that power they have to control others. They are never satisfied, and always seek more. If they are not held in check, they destroy freedom. The Chinese believed this is a cycle. Corruption reaches a peak and the people revolt, start fresh and the process begins again.
    It always makes me laugh when someone says something like the first line in your poem. Do you really think any of us proles had anything to do with the A bomb? I, for one, wasn't consulted on the rash of current wars, or police actions or whatever the politicians want to call them. I'm just another citizen of....the world.

    Our laws come from one idea - don't hurt anyone. In other words, he who uses force first, loses.
    From this come the other laws, don't take other people's stuff, and do what you say you will. All the other crap is just rules, not Law. The govt. doesn't have the moral right to decide anyone else's destiny, because I don't have that right. The reason "America" (in other words - the boys &girls at the top) has their fingers in so many pies is that it makes them and their pals richer or more powerful. Always ask "cui bono" of any action the pols take, it helps you find some surprising answers.

    Didn't mean for this to come off as harsh. No offense, you are welcome to your opinions. I just hate being lumped in a mythological group, as if I believe the lies the media spews about what it means to be American.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2014
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