All glass medical grade dry herb vaporizer

[Hippie Dickie]

sorry for not being clear … it is definitely convection. the herb sits in a flat bottom vial, the vial is put into the oven tube. the herb does not touch the heater.

the ribbon is encapsulated … there is a stainless steel washer 1/8" below the top of the oven tube - not shown in the diagram - that seals the interior of the cube from the oven tube.

this shows the top of the cube and the gap around the top of the oven tube isolates the hot oven tube from the wood. the washer sits at the bottom of the gap - centers and steadies the oven tube at the top, keeps hot tube away from the wood to prevent checking (splitting), and keeps herb from falling into the inside of the cube.

the vial is sitting next to the cube. when the vial is inserted into the oven tube, and is flush with the top of the oven tube. the vial is 35mm long, 12mm diameter.

 

[JJR]

sorry for not being clear … it is definitely convection. the herb sits in a flat bottom vial, the vial is put into the oven tube. the herb does not touch the heater.

the ribbon is encapsulated … there is a stainless steel washer 1/8" below the top of the oven tube - not shown in the diagram - that seals the interior of the cube from the oven tube.

this shows the top of the cube and the gap around the top of the oven tube isolates the hot oven tube from the wood. the washer sits at the bottom of the gap - steadies the oven tube at the top, keeps the wood from checking (splitting), and keeps herb from falling into the inside of the cube.

the vial is sitting next to the cube. when the vial is inserted into the oven tube, and is flush with the top of the oven tube. the vial is 35mm long, 12mm diameter.

I see what your saying about the seal with the washer, but I definately dont agree about it being convection. As long as the product is placed in an oven where it can heat up to vaporizing temperature without being drawn from it is conduction, it may not directly touch the heater ribbon but the vial with the product to be vaped is placed in the oven where it is being heated no matter if you are drawing or not. Drawing only passes air through the product to take the vapor away, drawing is not passing the heat through the product which is the basis of convection.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

ah, i see what you are saying. well, i see it more as radiant heat, rather than conduction, but i take your point. it definitely heats the herb while it sits inside the oven tube - inhale or it just cooks away.

 

[JJR]

ah, i see what you are saying. well, i see it more as radiant heat, rather than conduction, but i take your point. it definitely heats the herb while it sits inside the oven tube - inhale or it just cooks away.

Yup definately convection/radiant what ever youd like to call it but not convection, it is a nicely designed vape though.

 

[cascades]

I made an error referring to JJR's device as "the cube". I understand the bud toaster is a different device. I just now saw that it is also called the "Herbal Cube".

When using the glass mesh bowl the Glass Symphony is 100% glass. The heater is sealed in glass and then put in the airpath.

don't want to sidetrack the conversation but need to correct this … the air comes in through the top of the cube, then up through the vial, and out the top of the vial into the draw tube. 100% all glass vapor path. 100% isolated from anything but glass and herb. there are diagrams in my thread and a youtube video, too.

Well that was the criticism I made in my review. The Vapoluation vapor path is 100% glass. The air intake has the potential to be drawing over plastic that may have some out gassing issues. Much of that can be fixed pretty easily though. I'd kind of like a glass cap for the thing are barring that, a way to cover the cap. I'm wondering if gold leaf might do the trick there.
.................
I have not played with the Glass Symphony yet. From what I understand talking to the maker: he is selling 3 different bowls. Two have stainless steel screens . One has a glass screen. I think the glass screens are less widely used so far.

"None of the plastics on the V3 is heated" "air that will be later be heated does come near/over plastic in the case" Seems odd! Shouldnt be plastic anywhere in a vaporizer! Just my 2cents.
.....

So your saying theres a glass mesh screen? Also how would the air that is to be breathed be seperated from the air path when the air path is the air that is to be breathed? And if air is not drawn over the heating element how would it get hot as to be able to function?


I looked for the diagram out of pure curiousity and couldnt find it any way to post it here?

 

[JJR]

If someone asks you a question that you can't answer within the rules, then you either reply via pm or don't say anything at all.

See ya later people: leaving as per conversation with the moderator informing me of "rules" here is how I left off.

Please tell me how to erase this account then stu as I wont be told what I can or cant say when it comes to this subject especially just because "you told me to" its ridiculous this is part of the reason vaporizers that are made already are built unsafe for use, its people like you and the stupid "rules" that allow manufacturers to misinform people everywhere just to sell products. I have nothing to hide. You being worried about constructive conversation between "manufacturers" and regular members is ridiculous. So see ya, just erase my account or tell me how to get rid of it. Anyone interested in my product should follow me on instagram for updates look for 1alientech1

 

[KeroZen]

Well, now that we had a clear glimpse of your mentality, I'm absolutely not inclined to follow you anywhere. Watch your attitude pal, you're not going to make a lot of friends acting the way you do...

 

[Hippie Dickie]

@JJR - part of what @Stu is basing his comments about the "rules" has to do with a lot of history on this forum about material safety ... it can get heated ... and, eventually it just gets down to "you pays your money and you takes your pick".

You, like me, value 100% safe all glass air and vapor path. And you're right - it is hard to find that with acceptable usability/user interface features. Thus, DIY. Which i find to be incredibly satisfying - and hopefully rewarding some day.

hate to see you go ... i have gotten a lot of valuable input from this forum: a very kind reader solved a show-stopper problem that i had just ignored due to lack of knowledge. absolutely invaluable.

 

[JJR]

@JJR - part of what @Stu is basing his comments about the "rules" has to do with a lot of history on this forum about material safety ... it can get heated ... and, eventually it just gets down to "you pays your money and you takes your pick".

You, like me, value 100% safe all glass air and vapor path. And you're right - it is hard to find that with acceptable usability/user interface features. Thus, DIY. Which i find to be incredibly satisfying - and hopefully rewarding some day.

hate to see you go ... i have gotten a lot of valuable input from this forum: a very kind reader solved a show-stopper problem that i had just ignored due to lack of knowledge. absolutely invaluable.

I still cant figure out how to delete the damn account and no one will tell me so I might as well tell you that part of the reason im pissed off is because of our convo Dickie, we had what I thought was a constructive convo about your vape, about conduction and covection and I felt that anyone reading would learn something thay may not have known. Along with you yourself I think acknowledging you may have misunderstood the different processes. Were you hurt by our convo or did you feel it hurts your product? I didnt think anything bad was said at all or that you felt I shouldnt be saying things that I said again it was a constructive convo. But according to the rules as interpreted by stu somehow because I told you that your vape was conduction I was breaking them, along with other comments I mentioned in other convos about plastic and such. If I cant answer questions and inform people that ask of differences than what the heck is the point of being on a discussion forum? Theres nothing then to discuss So if thats how it works around here I dont want to be part of it, having to watch what I say. I havent knocked any person or product individually I have stated my opinion and answered some questions that is all. And to @KeroZen my mentality is that of which wants the truth to be known not misinformation to be spread, im not looking for friends so if you dont like how I think or what I had to say then dont bother commenting or following me I could care less.

 

[arb]

You have valid points and I myself have had my share of issues regards content of my posts.
All that aside you may want to consider having someone else do sales.

 

[Stu]

I still cant figure out how to delete the damn account and no one will tell me so I might as well tell you that part of the reason im pissed off is because of our convo Dickie, we had what I thought was a constructive convo about your vape, about conduction and covection and I felt that anyone reading would learn something thay may not have known. Along with you yourself I think acknowledging you may have misunderstood the different processes. Were you hurt by our convo or did you feel it hurts your product? I didnt think anything bad was said at all or that you felt I shouldnt be saying things that I said again it was a constructive convo. But according to the rules as interpreted by stu somehow because I told you that your vape was conduction I was breaking them, along with other comments I mentioned in other convos about plastic and such. If I cant answer questions and inform people that ask of differences than what the heck is the point of being on a discussion forum? Theres nothing then to discuss So if thats how it works around here I dont want to be part of it, having to watch what I say. I havent knocked any person or product individually I have stated my opinion and answered some questions that is all. And to @KeroZen my mentality is that of which wants the truth to be known not misinformation to be spread, im not looking for friends so if you dont like how I think or what I had to say then dont bother commenting or following me I could care less.

I'm sorry you have such a hard time comprehending some very simple and basic rules. But since it is clear to me that you can't/won't follow them, then it's probably for the best that you find another venue to have these discussions. We don't delete accounts, but you are more than welcome to not visit FC anymore since our rules are too restrictive for your liking.

 

[cascades]

The Vapolution 3 gets around that issue in part by not separating the bowl and the inhalation tube. In between draws, the user takes the bowl/inhalation tube out of the heating tube(which is easily removable for cleaning. The bowl/inhalation tube assembly can cool down a bit between draws, but the air in the heating tube heats up to the target temperature.

It is still a bit tricky in practice to make it work well, but it can.

IMHO Vapolution did a good job on the _vapor path_. I'm have my doubts about whether the air path is optimal. Still, they _tried_ and they got something into _production_.

I hope I see more and better products in production for sale.

ah, i see what you are saying. well, i see it more as radiant heat, rather than conduction, but i take your point. it definitely heats the herb while it sits inside the oven tube - inhale or it just cooks away.

 

[lazylathe]

I understand there are alot of vapes that work and work well but what I also understand is that none of the vaporizers available completely seperate the heating element from the air path with glass not ceramic or aluminum or anything else but glass as mine does, as for the screens they are in there for convenience they dont get hot like the heating element as to degrade and be able to breathe in anything from them, the one in the heater assembly is just there so particles do not fall past it to the base of the heater, the one in the mouthpiece is behind the material so you cant suck particles into your mouth. Both can be removed if one wishes but the airpath is 100% glass. With the exception of the screens @lazylathe


Also if any vaporizer is drawing air from the bottom most likely the air is not completely seperated from wiring, heating element connections and probably directly contacts and passes over a resistance wire or some sort of heating element. Diagrams and pictures of the heating chamber of my design wont be shared until final production as to not let out all the "secrets" just yet. They will be available in the future. @lazylathe

Just to get this straight for once and always.
Look up the EVO, Full glass airpath with heater EXTERNAL to the glass.
Been around for almost 10 years now. Heard of them yet in your travels?

Vapolution are 100% all glass airpath, any way you look at them.
No screen, plastic, resistance wires etc, only glass.

And my last point on your claim...
Why would I want to use a vaporizer without screens and just end up with the load in my mouth, as per yours? Makes no sense to me. if I want to eat weed, I will bake with it and enjoy it's full benefits.

And I want to state this fact once again and hopefully it sinks in this time.
We are all on your side! A lot of us here have a LOT of experience with vaporizers of all qualities.
We have been there from the first steps to the product being in our hands.
We have been involved in numerous Beta tests of vaporizers and have thoroughly scrutinized them from every aspect.
There is a LOT of experience here.

Play nice and you will learn a lot of valuable info!
Not many forums like this that freely share info on all topics for free!

 

[cascades]

Vapolution has a 100% glass _vapor path_. There is a question about the _air intake path_ because of potential out gassing from the case/cap(I think some of that can be fixed by a user, but I have not yet played around with that yet). I have not yet used the EVO. From what I've read, it does use a metal screen in the vapor path. Glass symphony has one bowl with a glass screen and two with metal screens if I'm correctly understanding that one(I have not yet played with it). With the glass screen, I _think_ that is a 100% glass vapor path and I haven't seen anything that indicates there are problems with the air intake for the GS from anyone with the product in hand.

I didn't find using the vapolution without a screen a huge problem as far as getting piece of weed. It is a bit tricky to use, but when it works, it works very well. However, the temperature of the vapor was high for me. Their bubbler and its accompanying bowl fixed that. I think you can adapt hydratubes for the EVO for the V3 also, of which there are several. I have not yet tried that.

Given the choice between a metal screen and drawing vapor through water, I prefer drawing through water/ice.

Just to get this straight for once and always.
Look up the EVO, Full glass airpath with heater EXTERNAL to the glass.
Been around for almost 10 years now. Heard of them yet in your travels?

Vapolution are 100% all glass airpath, any way you look at them.
No screen, plastic, resistance wires etc, only glass.

And my last point on your claim...
Why would I want to use a vaporizer without screens and just end up with the load in my mouth, as per yours? Makes no sense to me. if I want to eat weed, I will bake with it and enjoy it's full benefits.

And I want to state this fact once again and hopefully it sinks in this time.
We are all on your side! A lot of us here have a LOT of experience with vaporizers of all qualities.
We have been there from the first steps to the product being in our hands.
We have been involved in numerous Beta tests of vaporizers and have thoroughly scrutinized them from every aspect.
There is a LOT of experience here.

Play nice and you will learn a lot of valuable info!
Not many forums like this that freely share info on all topics for free!

 

[lazylathe]

Vapolution has a 100% glass _vapor path_. There is a question about the _air intake path_ because of potential out gassing from the case/cap(I think some of that can be fixed by a user, but I have not yet played around with that yet). I have not yet used the EVO. From what I've read, it does use a metal screen in the vapor path. Glass symphony has one bowl with a glass screen and two with metal screens if I'm correctly understanding that one(I have not yet played with it). With the glass screen, I _think_ that is a 100% glass vapor path and I haven't seen anything that indicates there are problems with the air intake for the GS from anyone with the product in hand.

I didn't find using the vapolution without a screen a huge problem as far as getting piece of weed. It is a bit tricky to use, but when it works, it works very well. However, the temperature of the vapor was high for me. Their bubbler and its accompanying bowl fixed that. I think you can adapt hydratubes for the EVO for the V3 also, of which there are several. I have not yet tried that.

Given the choice between a metal screen and drawing vapor through water, I prefer drawing through water/ice.

You seem to misunderstand me and my reply was not for you...
My response was to this comment made by @JJR, I will paste it here and highlight what I was replying to.

"I understand there are alot of vapes that work and work well but what I also understand is that none of the vaporizers available completely seperate the heating element from the air path with glass not ceramic or aluminum or anything else but glass as mine does, as for the screens they are in there for convenience they dont get hot like the heating element as to degrade and be able to breathe in anything from them, the one in the heater assembly is just there so particles do not fall past it to the base of the heater, the one in the mouthpiece is behind the material so you cant suck particles into your mouth. Both can be removed if one wishes but the airpath is 100% glass. With the exception of the screens @lazylathe"

So hopefully you can fully comprehend my comment now.
The EVO and the Cloud have been around for almost 10 years now, way before this noodle showed up with his contraption. If you are going to make blanket statements like that, do your research...

As for the Vapolution, I have owned the Vapo2 and now the Vapo3 and both tops did not get hot enough to offgas.
Some people like to make a mountain out of a mole hill... Lets not go down that path again.

 

[cascades]

I think the Vapolution and the EVO are two of the finest vaporizers that are actually in production. I think the Glass Symphony has some real potential but is not yet in real production.

I think there is still room for improvement. The odor of the V3 case bothers me a bit (I say that as a largely happy owner). The EVO seems from what I can read a bit fragile and expensive to repair.

The kind of character that will sweat the details to actually make that made a product that improves in those areas may have some quirks. Many great inventors do.

It is also hard to compare stuff in development to stuff in production. Production processes always involve compromise.

One thing I come away from this discussion with: I wish there were ways for FC participants to gather and actually try and rate various products from a perspective of direct experience. I also wish there was a standard way to characterizing features so that vendors could compete fairly on attaining specific goals.

You seem to misunderstand me and my reply was not for you...
My response was to this comment made by @JJR, I will paste it here and highlight what I was replying to.

"I understand there are alot of vapes that work and work well but what I also understand is that none of the vaporizers available completely seperate the heating element from the air path with glass not ceramic or aluminum or anything else but glass as mine does, as for the screens they are in there for convenience they dont get hot like the heating element as to degrade and be able to breathe in anything from them, the one in the heater assembly is just there so particles do not fall past it to the base of the heater, the one in the mouthpiece is behind the material so you cant suck particles into your mouth. Both can be removed if one wishes but the airpath is 100% glass. With the exception of the screens @lazylathe"

So hopefully you can fully comprehend my comment now.
The EVO and the Cloud have been around for almost 10 years now, way before this noodle showed up with his contraption. If you are going to make blanket statements like that, do your research...

As for the Vapolution, I have owned the Vapo2 and now the Vapo3 and both tops did not get hot enough to offgas.
Some people like to make a mountain out of a mole hill... Lets not go down that path again.

Va

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Were you hurt by our convo or did you feel it hurts your product?

no, not at all - not a product yet, so there is still time to make it better.

i was confused about the conduction characterization - i see the PAX and PAX2 as being pure conduction, and mine is not like that - that is, needing to mash the herb against the bottom heater plate.

when my oven tube is running at 400F, the temp of the herb in the vial is 350F, and it rises to 400F during the first 5 seconds of the inhale.

and, due to the extremely short heater air path (35mm), i think i really need the radiant heat to melt the trichomes to expose the THC to the 400F air flow, and vaporize the contents. Best vapor is produced after the vial sits in the oven for 2 minutes - so lots of radiant heat needed.

 

[Seek]

When I look at the cube, it seems to me it would be both conduction and convection. Convection because the air travels through the heated outer part first, and conduction, because the herbs are down there, not above the heater. There is a little air gap but I think that would only bring the conduction down slightly. The herbs would have to be highr up in the mouthpiece for the cube to be 100% convection.

100% convection has some benefits over the combination
-Can have on demand vapor production - heating the herb only when you're hitting it.
(The heater is usually not on demand though and needs to be kept on between draws)
-Can have better taste, as its not constanly being heated between hits degrading the taste and you get tasty low temp vapor at the beginnig of your draw.

Combined convection and conduction is also awesome, probably even better than convection alone:
-Better performance
-Can take potent short draws (pure convection needs long hits to start producing vapor)
-If balanced well, it can make the temperature per draw speed more consistent.
-Vapor producting from start of the draw to the end - at star
-Cannot be on demand as the conduction part keeps heating them between draws and the convectin part usually requires powering the heater for the entire session.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

When I look at the cube, it seems to me it would be both conduction and convection.

at the risk of speaking when not being spoken to, i will assume you mean The Herbal Cube (aka Bud Toaster), when you reference "the cube", so …

yes, the herb is inside the heater, but don't forget the radiant heat aspect. the ribbon heater is surrounded with a cylindrical shiny stainless steel heat shield, which redirects the out-radiating heat from the ribbon back into the center of the vial. i put a marble on the top of the vial to trap any vapor that would try to rise up, although i do enjoy inhaling the wisps.

but … until the first stir, after which the herb will fall to the bottom of the vial and provide more contact with the bottom of the vial, and thus, more conduction, the herb is barely touching the walls of the vial, so very little conduction through the first 5 minutes of the session, which includes waiting for the 2 minute heat saturation. the first hit can be as thick as any during the session, again, i think, due to the radiant heat. by this time the taste is spent, but after a stir i often get another thick cloud, or two, before it feels (tastes) like nothing but lipids and leaf are coming through, and the vapor is much thinner - but still coming.

not that i blow out clouds - although i could - i feel that is too wasteful, so i take half-lung full hits, followed by fresh air, and exhale very little vapor. if i'm doing it right.

definitely a session vape, not on demand … sit down, 7.5 minutes, a dozen hits with about 0.08 g of herb. and done.

if you're talking to JJR, then my bad, and i'll retreat back to my thread.

 

[Seek]

i will assume you mean The Herbal Cube (aka Bud Toaster)

I did.

yes, the herb is inside the heater, but don't forget the radiant heat aspect.

I did forgot about that, so it's all 3 types of heat transer used there.
I think every vape that has conduction heating also has radiation heating.
As the hot bowl walls have to radiate IR.
But I think the radiation heating can be stronger if the heat excahnger is transparent (like in your case) or not there at all (for exampkle MFLB) so the herbs can "see" the heater directly and not just the sligthly cooler heat exchanger such as bowl walls.

But I think I should have called the "convection X conduction" distinctions "active X passive heating" instead.
Active meaning heating the herb only when there's airflow and passive if it's continuous regardless.
So the radiant heat should fall into passive heating category together with conduction.
So just like conduction - it would contribute for vapor escaping between hits and for the vapor you get at the beginning of the draw.
It's just a little more uniform heat, as it can easily penetrate the pockets of air between the walls and lossely packed herbs that you mentioned in the next part:

but … until the first stir, after which the herb will fall to the bottom of the vial and provide more contact with the bottom of the vial, and thus, more conduction, the herb is barely touching the walls of the vial, so very little conduction through the first 5 minutes of the session

If there are these pockets of air, the conduction is weaker but still there. And the heat can still trvael through the stale air in these pockets by "passive" convection.
So the air will transfer the heat from the wall to the herb continuously even between hits.
But of course if there is more contact after stirring, then the conduction is stronger than that passive convection.

...the first hit can be as thick as any during the session, again, i think, due to the radiant heat.

It's due to all of the passive heating, all 3 kinds of it.
Conduction, convection in the pockets of air in the bowl, and radiation.
Or it could just mean that your bowl is tiny and can heat up quickly by active convection in the first hit, like log vapes.
Which could also be true, but as the heater is so close to the herbs, there has to be some significant passive heating.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Or it could just mean that your bowl is tiny and can heat up quickly by active convection in the first hit

i have measured the temp in the middle of the herb in the vial to be 50F below the heater temp, and it rises to the heater temp at the start of the hit, then drops 50F after the toke.

So just like conduction - it would contribute for vapor escaping between hits

i just keep the draw tube on the vial between hits … no vapor escapes, and if i don't clear the draw tube, the vapor sitting in the tube continues to cool until the next hit.

 

[cascades]

I think many vaporizers have some combination of conduction and convection heating. I'd like to see some kind of objective way to evaluate that as a percent convection and percent conduction. I think folks often get confused on this point and even manufacturers often do not describe their products accurately.

When I look at the cube, it seems to me it would be both conduction and convection. Convection because the air travels through the heated outer part first, and conduction, because the herbs are down there, not above the heater. There is a little air gap but I think that would only bring the conduction down slightly. The herbs would have to be highr up in the mouthpiece for the cube to be 100% convection.

100% convection has some benefits over the combination
-Can have on demand vapor production - heating the herb only when you're hitting it.
(The heater is usually not on demand though and needs to be kept on between draws)
-Can have better taste, as its not constanly being heated between hits degrading the taste and you get tasty low temp vapor at the beginnig of your draw.

Combined convection and conduction is also awesome, probably even better than convection alone:
-Better performance
-Can take potent short draws (pure convection needs long hits to start producing vapor)
-If balanced well, it can make the temperature per draw speed more consistent.
-Vapor producting from start of the draw to the end - at star
-Cannot be on demand as the conduction part keeps heating them between draws and the convectin part usually requires powering the heater for the entire session.

 

[Ctipp22]

Thank you, its been a long road. Been experimenting with different designs for the past 6 years to get to here, I have learned a thing or two about vaporization which is why I know I finally have a great product to offer. Still some tweaks I want to do on the electrical/temp control but the heater assembly is a keeper and I feel superior in this category of vaporizers!

Can I see a pic of this?