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Airpath purity X Health issues

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by idtpx, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4471055/

    I just believe such reclaim inside iso (from cleaning vaping gear) will not be pure and may contain invisible things including biofilm layers

    I agree inhaling iso fumes is not good. Then you should wear mask because even without spraying anything you may still inhale it

    But this is what happened to me so many times. And I can confirm it with my another experience when I tried to let golden/brown iso completely evaporate and then vape golden dust that remained. After several hours it gave me same nasty symptoms but in more amplified way.


    I experimented with reusing turkey bags for several months by leaving one side open to let smell get away. After some time it started giving me serious cases of shortness of breath, when I changed my bag for brand new it instantly improved and gave me enormous relief
     
    Used2use likes this.
  2. muunch

    muunch hotboxing the cockpit

    Messages:
    1,486
    No shit, I went against everything I read and did this last week with some 91% iso I was using to clean shit.

    Evaped then heat purged it at 200f in my oven for a little. Was pretty awful and I already regretted it the same night... then I got sick the next day. It may be other shit but I had held up well against seasonal crap up until that day. At first I thought my throat was sore from the harshness of the stuff, but the day after that, I had very bad sinus issues (and for the next 2days. I feel like 80% now - 4~ days later)

    Never again. Weekly (or more frequent!) iso+hot water baths now for any water pieces I'm inhaling through regularly.
     
  3. Used2use

    Used2use Landrace racer

    Messages:
    367
    interesting study, but it says itself:
    "The bactericidal effect of alcohol depends upon dehydration and denaturation of proteins [20]. Mixtures of alcohols and water (60–90% v/v) are more effective because proteins are denatured more quickly in the presence of water [20, 21]. Ethanol also causes leakage of the plasma membrane, disrupting bacterial growth and metabolism..."
    so bacteria may survive an ISO bath with a biofilm protection layer, but still no bacteria will survive suspended in ISO, so reclaiming with iso / reusing should be fine
    Those hip 'add ons' for water like cranberry extract might be more problematic bc the added sugar feeding for the 'gremlins' ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
    Andreaerdna likes this.
  4. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    iso with water should work well against planktonic bacteria - those not protected by biofilm
    There are so many bacteria and mold species and every biofilm may be completely different!
    also you are assuming that golden iso will work exactly same as clear iso...

    this topic needs proper academic research

    until then I'm cleaning as much as I can and throwing my expensive hydratubes away and ordering dry mouthpiece where I can easily reach whole surface area and scrub mechanically with clean iso
     
  5. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    I am way more concerned with the possible contaminants that may drift onto the pot field then I am about the iso and water cleaned glass I havn't broken yet.
     
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  6. Used2use

    Used2use Landrace racer

    Messages:
    367
    agreed - they are even more diverse and adaptable as humans, and even survived space trips, but just like humans there are some good, some bad and many that don't affect u in any way
    why not? - same mechanism, it will still dehydrate and is far away from it's maximum soluble oil, then it would be real dark black...
    In general there are a lot of (even cheap) different testing tools avaiable to get at least an indication if there is an unhealthy amount of bad bacteria present. So maybe break a cleaned hydratube and test the spots u suspect...
    Vaping temps and no food inside a vape/bag are more than tough for any lifeform to survive, in comparison to standing water
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  7. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    I found photo of very well used vaping gear. Owner completely neglected cleaning here
    What you see on photo is completely covered by layers of biofilm
    Spots that have pink and yellow color are matured biofilm taken to the extreme
    everything else that looks slimy and foggy are also biofilm layers.

    Take a good look on the right side of photo -- there is still lot of biofilm there and I am personally concerned about much thinner and less visible layers than you can see here

    [​IMG]

    It is almost impossible to clean it 100% without manual scrubbing using anything traditional

    99% iso
    8% vinegar
    Acetone
    citric acid
    baking soda
    water
    and various combinations

    nothing is effective enough even with 24h soaks. From time to time I am able to cut out small chunks of it but that is all. Maybe it could be more effective when heated to boiling point, but I really don't want to mess with hot chemicals


    I think biofilm can be dissolved by carefully chosen mix of enzymes. Something that is specifically engineered to dissolve biofilm layers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
    Mr.Sifter likes this.
  8. howie105

    howie105 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Look up acid washing for lab glass, one of those processes might meet your needs.
     
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  9. ensabbahnur

    ensabbahnur Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    Kickin it live in the 775
    I use boiling iso, rinse, vinegar soak for a night, rinse, more boiling iso and nothing visible has ever survived minus a few slight mineral stains on some old pieces in the days before i learned to use distilled water.

    Also, cranberry extracts like Natures Answer have citric acid in it that inhibits growth of nasties.
     
  10. stardustsailor

    stardustsailor Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    492
    Location:
    Thessaly,Greece
    Good idea ,actually.
    Here's some ideas :
    (...)
    Anti-Fungal and Anti-Bacterial Agents
    Boric acid is the active ingredient contained in some brands of multipurpose contact lens cleaning solutions. Like hydrogen peroxide, boric acid is a disinfectant and anti-fungal agent used in contact lens solutions to prevent the growth of microorganisms on the eye. These sterile solutions are often preserved with ascorbic acid or edetate disodium. Ascorbic acid is an effective preservative for protecting against the growth of bacteria and fungi on contact lenses. Edetate disodium is another preservative used to stop the growth of microorganisms (...)

    https://www.livestrong.com/article/276585-the-ingredients-in-contact-lens-cleaning-solution/

    (..)
    Enzymatic Cleaners

    Proteolytic enzymes remove accumulations of tear proteins from lens surfaces. The enzymes work by catalyzing and lysing specific bonds in the amino acid chains of proteins. Historically they served as a separate, weekly cleaning step to control protein, primarily lysozyme, buildup on conventional lenses. Enzyme use has declined in recent years because of more frequent lens replacement schedules and protein-inhibiting additives in MPS products. Enzyme use today is relegated to lenses worn for one month or longer.

    Three generic types of proteolytic enzymes are currently used with contact lenses: papain (from papaya), pancreatin (from pork) and subtilisin (from bacillus sp. bacteria). Papain is the active ingredient in Allergan's Enzymatic Contact Lens Cleaner. Opti-Free and Optizyme (Alcon) enzymatic cleaners use porcine pancreatin. Complete Weekly Enzymatic Cleaner (AMO), Ultrazyme (Allergan), ReNu 1-Step, Effervescent and Sensitive Eyes Enzymatic Cleaners (B&L) and Unizyme (CIBA) use subtilisin. Supra-Clens (Alcon) is a convenient, liquid form of pancreatin enzyme that patients can add daily to the storage solution for both soft and rigid lenses. Patients should rinse lenses free of enzyme cleaners before lens wear.(...)

    https://www.clspectrum.com/issues/2003/july-2003/soft-contact-lens-care-products

    (...)
    Papain breaks down tough meat fibres, and has been used for thousands of years to tenderise meat eaten in its native South America. Meat tenderisers in powder form with papain as an active component are widely sold.

    Papain can be used to dissociate cells in the first step of cell culture preparations. A ten-minute treatment of small tissue pieces (less than 1 mm cubed) will allow papain to begin cleaving the extracellular matrix molecules holding the cells together. After ten minutes, the tissue should be treated with a protease inhibitor solution to stop the protease action. Left untreated, papain activity will lead to complete lysis of the cells. The tissue must then be triturated (passed quickly up and down through a Pasteur pipette) to break up the pieces of tissue into a single cell suspension.

    It is also used as an ingredient in various enzymatic debriding preparations, notably Accuzyme. These are used in the care of some chronic wounds to clean up dead tissue.

    Papain is added to some toothpastes and mint sweets as a tooth whitener. Its whitening effect is, however, minimal because the papain is present in low concentrations and is quickly diluted by saliva. It would take several months of use to have a noticeable effect.[9]

    Papain is the main ingredient of Papacarie, a gel used for chemomechanical dental caries removal. It does not require drilling and does not interfere in the bond strength of restorative materials to dentin.[10]

    Papain has been known to interfere with urine drug tests for cannabinoids.[11] It is found in some drug detox products.(...)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papain

    https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/SIGMA/P3375?lang=en&region=US


    Cheers.
    :2c:
     
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  11. Andreaerdna

    Andreaerdna If God is the answer, then the question is wrong

    Messages:
    816
    Cheap ultrasonic cleaners will do enzyme job faster and cleaner

    There is no need for huge tools

    Cheap ones like planetvape sells are big enough for most pieces

    Fitfull bubbler with iso and seal. make sure one part of the bubbler is in immersion, ulitrasonic vibration will be carried by Iso inside the bubbler (only water in ultrasonic vat)

    Let iso soak 1-few hrs and then 5 minutes unltrasonic bath and then hot water with dish soap is my routine (every couple of days)
     
    C No Ego likes this.
  12. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,856
    I clean my glass every single day and it is fucking great. :cool:
     
  13. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    Ultrasonic cleaners look promising, but most cheap cleaners work at 40 kHz

    As shown in this study 20 kHz is significantly better when it comes to biofilm - http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2672.1998.00373.x/pdf

    20 kHz cleaners are too expensive but I am still considering buying one


    It is worth to note that if you have any cracks in your glass ultrasonic cleaning may damage your piece even more
     
    C No Ego likes this.
  14. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    Today I found my old glass that I stopped using long time ago before I knew word biofilm or practiced proper daily cleaning routines.

    There was some gold/brown coating that I wrongly considered as cannabis resin. (Yes certain kinds of mature biofilm can look very similar to resin deposits)

    I sprayed clean ISO on it and it immediately melted into white milky liquid (gold brown completely disappared).

    That milky liquid instantly left huge milky marks on glass that were not washable by water and even very hard to get rid of manually with additinal iso while I scrubbed really hard!

    What helped to clean it was strong mix of water with citric acid and hard manual scrubbing of area. As I was trying to pour it away it constantly stained new and new places on glass. It took me long time to clean it all

    Pretty crazy stuff it sticks to glass like some kind of superglue and in diluted concentrations it may remind calcium deposits
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
    C No Ego likes this.
  15. Mr.Sifter

    Mr.Sifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    615
    this is similar to my d020 bubbler.
    I tried so much and can't get it glassclear.

    what can I do ?

    boiling iso?
    isnt that dangerous ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
  16. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    ISO and rock salt... I've heard that is good to use if you do not want to reclaim with it
     
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  17. Mr.Sifter

    Mr.Sifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    615
    difficult in a small bubbler.
     
  18. Fightingteam

    Fightingteam Member

    Messages:
    28
    I've had a similar looking bong and indeed heated iso + salt was the only way to get clean, clear glass again. I use a small hot plate with a Pyrex beaker of iso and use a IR temp gun to measure the temperature. Boiling isn't really necessary as long as the temperature is around 150f. I usually pour the iso in and shake as much as possible, pour out, then add more hot iso with salt for a second run, pour out, then use hot water till all the salt is gone. I've never had an issue cleaning any glass with this method though obviously care must be taken around a flammable liquid like iso. I've cleaned bongs that have been used for combustion purposes for years without cleaning and they still shine clear with no evidence of anything else remaining after days of sitting empty.

    To answer your other question: Iso is nowhere near as dangerous as say butane. It isn't going to explode and as long as you heat it in a well ventilated area or even simply under a vent to a microwave (this is what I usually do) you will be fine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
    C No Ego likes this.
  19. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    I am still actively looking for safe solutions. I ordered some promising product based on
    sodium percarbonate and will inform you how effective it is after testing.

    Meanwhile I discovered this problem affects my weed grinder and even place where I grind my weed or store ABV...

    photos: https://imgur.com/a/EIF6h

    first photo is my grinder cover after scrubbing with toothbrush using iso, citric acid, liquid soap, hot water. Nice demonstration how resistant it can be

    I stopped using that weed grinder since now I believe it may be source of random bacterial contamination despite numerous cleaning during years.

    For grinding I am switching back to scissors (can be cleaned better + with fire), clean paper sheet as grinding pad.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  20. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    2,494
    Location:
    Colliefornia
    They look more like hard water stains than biofilm. That's what glass looks like when you don't use distilled water.
     
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  21. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    There are few droplets from hard water from cleaning but rest is probably calcified biofilm read my post here.

    Here is another active member that would probably agree with my findings read his post here
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  22. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    Things are finally starting to make sense to me - problem was really my grinder and grinding area.
    When I stopped using it biofilm stopped to develop on my glass immediately. My glass is not foggy/cloudy/misty anymore after day of usage and smell of my glass is highly reduced too.

    Basically my plastic grinder was infected with mold/fungus/spores and everytime I grinded good weed I introduced mold spores into the mix :(
    Could be Aspergillus which is known to form slimmy biofilm or something else..

    Here are some symptoms I can identify with more or less

    [​IMG]


    here is what to look for!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  23. Alexis

    Alexis Open minded philosopher and realist.

    Messages:
    1,211
    Location:
    Bedford, United Kingdom
    So this is good news right? It means that maybe using bubblers, without the most stringent, thorough cleaning methods possible- might not be SUCH a health hazard after all?:shrug:

    I hope so! You were making feel like we were all doomed! Obviously cleaning glass is still VERY important, and commonly overlooked/neglected.

    I have myself contracted aspergillus niger from infected weed before. It only ever happened once as far as Im aware, in decades of vaping, and came from an outdoor plant which was savaged by autumn damp.

    The fungus was invisible and odourless but the entite plant was infected.
    I suffered very severe and lasting respiratory symptoms from vaping the weed, the aspergillus got into my throat, sinuses, left lung, intestines and bladder just from vaping it.

    I had all of this confirmed as well as the presence of the fungus in all plant samples I had tested.

    I eventually cleared the infection, which although spread out was relatively minor fortunately.
    And it has not happened since. Moral of the story- if in doubt leave it out!:nod:

    @idtpx thank you for sharing these revelations with us. I hope you can start to feel more confident and comfortable about using your water tools now and keeping them safely clean. Please continue to keep us posted on any new insights, best wishes bro.:tup:
     
  24. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    In my case bad hygiene of grinder and grinding area was major cause of biofilm formation
    but I don't think I eliminated that problem 100%.

    Cannabis strains have different terpen profiles and some terpen profiles are known for antibacterial/antifungal effects. I guess some strains will be more effective than others


    I remember 10 years ago during my teenager/combustion years when I accidently dripped few droplets of some unknown liquid into my cannabis metal box and always was impressed why that place never developed any significant "resin" buildup

    When I saw this today it immediately forced me to remember that event =)
    [​IMG]
     
  25. invertedisdead

    invertedisdead trance-form

    Messages:
    2,494
    Location:
    Colliefornia
    Oregano oil is some hardcore gangster shit. Antibacterial, antimicrobial, antiparasitic, antiviral, antifungal, antivenom, etc. :bowdown:

    It's a miracle!

    I keep some in my rasta man medicine cabinet in case I get the flu, or bit by a snake, or cancer.
     

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