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Airpath purity X Health issues

Discussion in 'Vaporization Discussion' started by idtpx, Nov 8, 2017.

  1. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    There seems be no research study about what happens to air-path walls when you push cannabis vapor through it for multiple times and during various time intervals(hours, days) without cleaning it.

    I think we would be surprised what we are actually breathing in addition to usual cannabis vapor because we may not be cleaning our air-paths often enough

    It sounds crazy but I think cleaning whole air-path with ISO after every session(including glass, or replacing bag) would be very beneficial for our health but doing it manually would be very tedious.

    I am wondering if UV light sterilization could help
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  2. KidFated.

    KidFated. We Don't Even Live Here..

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    Are you referring to like bacteria and such growing on the vapor resin that condensates on the walls?
     
  3. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

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    39
    I think so but I can only guess.
    It could be virus, bacteria, spores producing bacteria, molds or something else.

    Less you clean it more concentrated it becomes.

    If I don't clean it often I may notice: stuffiness, sore throat, fatigue
    If I clean it often everything is perfect though

    Another problem is not every vaporizer can be fully cleaned. How am I supposed to clean base unit of Volcano from inside? At least with Cloud EVO I just pour iso into bamboo and it helps so much!

    I also think this problem is unique to vaping in general and does not happen so much when you combust through bong
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
  4. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    my draw tube is a 6" long glass tube. one rolled up full size paper towel swabs it out perfectly clean. completely satisfying my compulsive cleanliness issues. very nice to vape through crystal clear glass. kind of like washing the coffee pot every day before my morning joe.
     
  5. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    It is worth reading this article https://herb.co/2017/04/25/microbes-bong-water/

    They are mentioning combustion, but they confirmed what I suspected for a long time. From my experience vaping with dirty(sticky) airpath can take it to another level. I see vaping with dirty airpath more dangerous than combustion with dirty airpath.

    It is sad that majority of vaporizer manufacturers try to present their products as "healthy" while completely neglecting this extremely important aspect.

    At least they could tell their customers -- Look, it is very important to completely clean your vape and gear more than often otherwise you are slowly harming yourself with germ toxins.

    Hope some vendor will realize this is major flaw in current designs and will come with system that would allow effortless and complete sterilization after each hit/session.. Such vaporizer system could be next game changer(for me).
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  6. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

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    This does not completely cleans my glass but i run hot water trough it before/after every session, and i dont leave water in while not in use. When it gets dirty i do a quick salt + alcohol + baking soda scrub.
    Do you think that i should give more effort than that ?
    I am pretty sure those essential oils have antibacterial effect, + my saliva is not dripping in.. so i feel pretty safe about reclaim . I never vape dry,always use my WP ! :))
     
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  7. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    Cannabis have antibacterial and anti-inflammatory properties but weed vapor contains countless of other things too.

    I clean my glass hydratube with 99% isopropyl alcohol every day and just recently I realized I was still doing it wrong whole time because I was reusing iso few times for economic reasons.

    Reusing iso was such a big mistake and I deeply regret doing that now. When iso changes color from crystal clear to anything else it is already losing cleaning capabilities because it may leave invisible sticky film on glass.

    I use vinegar from time to time since even clean iso is not able to wash out some biofilm that appears when I vape lot on high temp.

    Since I started doing that I feel 100% better - much less fatigue and brain fog. But I am heavy user 1 - 2 grams per day
     
  8. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

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    7th heaven - 666th pit (EU)
    I have also noticed that clean glass gives me better high. I guess at one point i may consider an easier to clean glass piece. I use vinegar too, and also dish wash soap.
     
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  9. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    626
    That article u mentioned is about water tools, in moist and warm conditions there shurely is more bacteria growth - but i doubt there is more bacteria inside a dry airpath than u will find on normal hands. Dry and hot is not a good living spot for (most) bacteria, afaik no bacteria survives more than 130C for long and that is some exotic form living at volcanic areas....
    Maybe an ultrasonic cleaner for sterilizing is more economic/logic than iso in the long run, at least for small parts...
     
  10. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

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    39
    When everything is 100% clean I can confirm high is better and flavor too (i use cloud evo).
    But it is hard having everything 100% clean if you are not really focusing on it


    Thanks for mentioning ultrasonic cleaner I need to learn about it

    with Volcano Vaporizer I regularly experienced almost identical problems and there was no water filtration involved. I did not change bags often enough - after one day of full usage you could already smell with your nose that bag is not OK but it would give you no apparent health problems days maybe even week later. But who changes vaping bag daily? I think almost nobody because it is expensive and tiring.


    I just think everyone should try for at least one or two weeks practicing very strict cleaning routines as often as possible and then decide if they can see significant health benefits or not
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
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  11. EverythingsHazy

    EverythingsHazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,132
    If you're referring to air paths in the vaporizers, it's more difficult to solve, but if you mean in our glass pieces, like you said, ISO washes each use would be ideal, but there are ways to keep your pieces cleaner for longer. Cranberry extract (a few drops in the water) shaken to wet the entire inside surface of the glass, will largely prevent the vapor from condensing, and hot water rinses will be enough to make your piece shiny. Storing your piece dry would also help. You could just do the hot water rinse after each session, and then store it empty. That would likely be your best bet, if you don't want to use ISO each time.

    I'll only vape through glass that's been cleaned the same day, usually right before the session. I clean with just a hot water rinse, but also use cranberry extract, which keeps it sparkling clean. Running hot water through it for 15-30 seconds seems to get it almost perfectly cleaned in between ISO rinses, every few days.

    I doubt there are many bacteria forming in the E-Nano air path.

    The GonG and Screen get cleaned before every session. in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with water and ISO (you're not technically supposed to use ISO because it can vaporize and ignite if there is a spark or open flame).

    Torching the screen before this, helps speed it along and keeps the ultrasonic cleaner's reservoir cleaner for longer, but I have recently been wondering if the heating of the screen makes it release any chemicals. I don't want metal vapors or particles in my vapor. I honestly, don't think it's much of a problem, but I want to find out for sure.
     
  12. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

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    4,620
    clean is cool

    :2c:
     
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  13. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

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    39
    another interesting observation
    https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/77sbrn/psa_iso_salt_isnt_enough_to_clean_your_rigs/

    This confirms my recent findings that sometimes clean iso cannot do much against some type of biofilm without manual scrubbing. Keep in mind i clean daily without exception!

    If you think you cleaned your glass and still can see something like "mist" spots of various size on your glass where moisture disappears much faster then you still have glass with biofilm spots

    for your information this is how fast bacteria can multiple on it, keep in mind all of this can happen on "seemingly" clean glass

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  14. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21860999


    We must find some solution to this problem but I don't have experience with any of these yet:
    - Acetone - this may be risky since breathing any residue is certainly not good
    - PBW
    - UVC light
    - something called Base Bath which labs use to clean glass from organic stuff
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
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  15. stardustsailor

    stardustsailor Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

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    Maybe should also be considered :

    - Hydrogen Peroxide >30% : It cleans and also kills a wide range of microorganisms .
    - Saturated Sodium Hydroxide solution (lye) : Caustic but it cleans glass ,stainless steel and Titanium like no other.Kills a wide range of microorganisms.
    - Listerine / or any other strong mouthwash : Mild cleaning and disinfection .
    -Boiling baking soda saturated solution : Cleans and sterilises .

    :science:
     
  16. jojo monkey

    jojo monkey Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    520
    For cannabis concentrates, the pesticides are also concentrated. Do pesticides build up too? Some pesticides are systemic. I dunno if they vape.

    I like simple green-> water -> iso -> and a dip through a series of clean water buckets.

    The simple green has alcohol in it and does most of the work. You can't put it down a drain though. The same goes for acetone.
     
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  17. EverythingsHazy

    EverythingsHazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,132
    Using cranberry extract in your water helps prevent those film spots from forming. Especially if you ISO rinse every few days.

    If you want some scrubbing action, mix in some salt, and shake it up. The salt doesn't dissolve much in ISO, and it scrubs the inside really well.
     
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  18. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    As somebody already mentioned in this thread it is great idea to use hot/boiling water on glass after each use.

    I think there may be connection between smell and bacteria activity. My cleaned glass starts to change smell after two or three hits. Hot water seems to remove this smell quite well without being expensive

    Similar smell can be also found when using balloon bag vaporizer without any water filtration after one day of heavy use


    Click to play YouTube Video
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
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  19. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    I ran some tests using cleaned and completely dried glass without any water.
    It is happening too but not as fast. Still need to clean it every day though.


    What worries me is that people report this problem only when their situation is some bizarre extreme case like here
    https://www.reddit.com/r/vaporents/comments/4hml9f/anyone_know_what_this_ishow_to_get_rid_of_it/

    but still don't mention any health problems! They must be so used to it and consider it normal.

    It is so problematic because layers of biofilm are almost invisible and measured in micrometers.
    If not completely removed it will start to work much harder than before to rebuild everything. It has ability to communicate and recruit new microorganisms into biofilm...
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
  20. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

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    1,341
    look into the "Shona Banda method" to make cannabis oil... she is basically relying on condensed vapor to then medicate with... research the anti bacterial properties of the condensed oil etc.... I've looked into storage of the oil and it lasts forever pretty much without spoiling or growing any type of bacteria growing... if left open to air it simply dries hard and less sticky until it would be found millions of years later dried- hard... as to glass pieces water can turn into other things so just empty the water after use... I reuse all left over oil reclaim from vape stems, water pieces etc...
     
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  21. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    But she is manually scraping it from glass surface after short time. That is different situation I cannot manually scrub percs and glass surface from inside ever.

    As I stated many times in this thread this thing is happening even without water in bong. Consider humidity in air and in cannabis itself. Consider that cannabis vapor may also be very fine mix of organic nutrients

    If your cannabis is not grown in completely sterilized lab there will always be some levels of pathogens even dispensaries are selling pathogen infested cannabis.

    https://invisiverse.wonderhowto.com...users-with-potentially-deadly-fungus-0176279/


    Point is healthy immune system should have no problem to kill it fast. But glass and any other surface have no immune system and after few hours these bacteria will start forming biofilm to protect itself much better.
     
  22. C No Ego

    C No Ego Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,341
    like I mentioned though, when looking into how long RSO lasts it lasts forever... it's made with a different process than vape resin reclaim... So, I see your point- vape reclaim picks up other organic matter in the vapor from the plant... I was actually looking into the Shona Bonda method when I cam across people using the method to super potentiate RSO... so re-vape RSO and then reclaim... I'm kind of assuming that because reclaim in any device is so sticky once it sticks to surfaces it does not dislodge easilly... it changes in viscosity when heated air goes over it each time you vape but does it also dislodge into airways?
     
  23. idtpx

    idtpx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    39
    I have experience only with unprocessed cannabis flowers. No idea if it is happening with concentrates/oils

    when I was using volcano vaporizer and reused same batch of ISO for weeks - I immersed my solid valve parts into iso and then cleaned everything with paper towel until completely dried.

    I always wrongly assumed that ISO kills everything so I reused it.
    It took me years to realize that doing it like this always left some microscopic film on my solid valve parts even after using clean paper towel. TIP: use spray to dose your iso when possible - you will save even more while always using clean iso


    Then when I heated my solid valve parts on 185 C during session everything seemed "normal" but after like 5 hours I started noticing weak symptoms of infection! (keep in mind iso was very concentrated with gold/brown color, it would not happen with clean iso)

    When heated on 205 C everything was much more amplified! I was dumb during that time not to realize what is going on


    So yeah, heat can definitely affect it in wrong way. But don't assume it will not happen just because there is no heat
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
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  24. Mr.Sifter

    Mr.Sifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    999
    I cant clean my bubbler d020.

    I tried puring ISO in the bubbler which i warmed up with hoth water.
    I still can see a yellowish at the bottom and the perc stem.
    I tried some salt in the iso for mechanical cleaning.
    still not "factory clean"

    I spent like 2 hours shaking that thing.
    Letting ISO sit over night.
    Tried vinegar extract
    still not clean.

    never combusted in the bubbler.


    any suggestions ?
     
  25. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    626
    nothing survives in alcohol, and nothing speaks against reusing it
    hm, sounds like u mistake reclaim oil as a biofilm - when the ISO gets saturated with 'reclaim oil' (gold/brown colour) by reusing, it will leave a thin sticky oil film behind after the iso evaporates
    To prevent that eg wash it after the iso clean in hot water
    i don't know - maybe it's more harmful to breathe in iso fumes while cleaning than a few possible bacteria
    i highly doubt that infection symptoms can even show after 5 hours, even bacteria can't grow faster than an e-function...
    I honestly don't get what u are implying what should be going on?
    Even on a one year old daily used bag there will be more bacteria on the outside than on the inside bc the oil is antibacterial, but a test would be interesting, give u that ;). Both articles u mentioned didn't really differ between smoking /vaping but it can't be a big health risk simply bc it has been done for more than enough time...
    And yes, it is important for people with weak immune system to have extra clean weed, (but also in general a bit more cautious lifestyle) gamma radiation is the industrial approach for disinfection on food i believe, heat(oven) and microwave also work for that purpose (and eg for water tools maybe even bags), but i'd say for cannabis concentrates are the better/safer option in that case...
     
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