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Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by TrueNorthStar, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. TrueNorthStar

    TrueNorthStar Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    Hmmmmm that's a very tricky question to answer :) bet as a general rule of thumb.... as low as I can get away with :)

    Now that changes depending on a few things. Wire gauge plays the largest role in the resistance I like per coil (not per atomizer :p)

    When I build a coil, I have to balance these things:

    1) Maximum available power (defines the maximum possible power output)

    2) Maximum possible airflow (Defines the maximum amount of "useable power"

    3) available room for the coil (limits what gauge wire I can use)

    But please remember these are my preferences and may not apply to you.

    But I would say this,

    22 gauge 0.05-0.3 ohms
    26 gauge 0.2-0.6 ohms
    28 gauge 0.5-0.8 ohms
    30 gauge 0.6-1.0 ohms
    32 gauge 0.7-1.3 ohms

    This is very subjective on my part and there are many other variables to take into account like the wick material or air flow and personal tastes.

    My ultimate goal would be to have the button of my device would give me the same satisfaction of pulling the carb on a milk filled bong and then hide, leak free, in my pocket till I need another lung injection :)

    Oh, heh I tried coating the wicks on my genny..... flavor was weird, not bad, but not good :p didn't taste the oils flavor at all, not identifiable at lease lol. I'll have to try it again it the morning to see how well it really works :p
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2013
    Soflo likes this.
  2. jrs1418

    jrs1418 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Hi everyone.. Newb here but i've been building BHO carts for a few mos now. I'm on Version 5.0 and its "so-so"

    Great thread. This is what I've been looking for for a while now.. i knew there were others trying to do the same.

    I have a Lavatube as my device. When my Ecig carts burn out I take them apart and gut em, keeping the sleeve and battery base. I then purchased online ceramic cups i think they were called iAtty, but i cannot find them anymore. Good thing i bought like 10. Anyways, 32AWG Kanthal, about 6-7 wraps suspended in the cup connected to solid core copper wire with micro crimps instead of solder. I get the whole setup measuring between 2.5-3.2 ohms.

    The problems I'm having is that instead of nickel mesh, i wash using alum foil to surround the ceramic cup and I think it has been grounding me out if it gets in contact with the coil or wires so I've been getting errors. Because of this thread, i'm going to be buying nickle mesh, and I already ordered ceramic wicks.

    Versions 2 & 3 of my carts were the best.. they lasted over 1 month and could have lasted longer if I didnt get aggressive in cleaning them and break a connection. If you just soak in 91%ISO over night, and do a couple of dry burns to start, they clean up real easy. These carts would regularly give me hits that made me and whomever i handed them to cough.

    Version 4 is where i was messing with dual coils. I was taking 2 pieces of Kanthal and twisting one side together, then coiling both individually about 6-7 wraps each, then twisting the opposing open ends together. To separate the coils, i reversed my ceramic cup upside down where it had this stem tube base that would keep the coils apart. Im no electrician but my logic says it wouldve worked, but low and behold I wasn't able to get one to last more than 1-2 runs before it started shorting out my ecig.

    I like this idea you've been using, and I will also be trying to work more on my version. If there's people interested I can take pix of my next build.

    For now I need to find those SS sleeves that house the internernals of regular Ecig carts, that have the hole punched for ejuice to flow into the cotton, and also connect to the battery base. I was only able to find black ones, but they wont work because sometimes you need to heat you BHO to run down to the coils and I'm afraid the black will come apart and look like crap.
    MTBerVAPEer and BLAZING OG like this.
  3. Detonator

    Detonator Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    217
    I want a re buildable in a globe with a feed hole and make it a true 1 hitter.... Im talking with a cool glass blower that is into concentrates..... imagine a re buildable in this but with a feed hole? He made this for me a while back it was for ejuice but Im going to have him make me one for the vape globe or a re buildable atty like yours, but I'm putting a feed hole in it.

    [​IMG]

    Going to go buy a re buildable atty today thanks.


    I use Boge stainless steel standard resistance cartos in glass tanks, I punch my own holes, I like two one on top one one bottom, using a 1/4 in tube punch tool. If you only want the used ss tubes then pm your address and I'll send you some. I use them in e juicr for about 2 weeks to a month till they taste weird, then I toss them. If your in America and think you can gut them and make them work I can send you a few. I only ask you take some pictures and show us what your doing. If they really work good, please send me one.

    mod note: please avoid making back-to-back posts in a thread. Use the Edit feature located at the bottom of your posts.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2013
  4. vape4health

    vape4health Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    752
    Was that a fresh wick an coil you tried or did it hhve juice on it already?

    **edit** After looking again there are many on ebay not just the 12 I found the first time:rolleyes:****Friendly tip to others, the clone I bought on ebay IS NOT the same as the one TNS has here, actually its shit, air holes are wrong, flow adjuster sucks, no extra ring. TNS if you don't mind where did you find that atty with the ring, and is it perfect or are you still looking for the one.

    Inspired by you I built a "non holeshot" version, just normal human 32 kantal @ 1.6o :) on some silica. It actually works. Not great but it's a start.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  5. jdee

    jdee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    198
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm gonna do this eventually, as I have tons of mechanical mods, rebuild-able atomizers, stainless steel cable/mesh, silica, ekowool, kanthal round and ribbon wire. Although I would love to see a titanium nail, made to work on a 510 connection. I don't wanna have to deal with rebuilding wicks, but having just a metal plate that I could scrape clean whenever would be amazing.
    BLAZING OG likes this.
  6. TrueNorthStar

    TrueNorthStar Active Member

    Messages:
    25

    jrs, I have found with my coil building that once you get to the point where you start to make plooms of vapor..... the digital e-cigs fault out because the coil is pulling more power than the e-cigs circuit can take... answer "Mechanical Mod" :)

    And just a side note, while on my journey in my quest I came across a cool site that sells all of the Chinese manufactured e-cig parts/kits hehehe: fasttech.com

    You can find re-buildable atomizers for under $5 HAHAHAHAHA!!! for the price of a pack a smokes you can toke :) only down side is 2 weeks for shipping. one of my buddies just got one of their brass "sentinel v3" Mechanical mods ($16) + 2 x sony 30amp 18650 batteries ($12) + Helio Stainless Steel atomizer ($5)

    So a full setup for under $40 shipped :) and the quality of this $16 mechanical is down right amazing (all brass, great contacts (only silver plating would make the contacts better)

    Now that would be sick!!

    When I do a dry burn on my coils (burns off excess crud) the coil can actually get that ss cable glowing hot (not just the coil itself), and when I have tried to "prime" the cable wick without waiting for it to cool (stoner moment), the oil flashes off just like a nail/dab!!! totally possible

    While I was tinkering the other day I found that one of my cirrius fused quartz tanks (for carts + e-liquid) will fit on the base for my Phoenix RDA heheh now I just need to figure out how to get air in there :) I may need a special drill bit to make an air hole... I would love to watch my coils works, just for the analytical benefits :)

    Totally had juice :p hahah the problem may be that my RSST runs dual wicks @ .7 ohms :p too much e-liquid flavor vs oil flavor and I don't think the flavor I had in there (Wonster by Vapor Boy) works well with oil, but maybe a more citrus based flavors would work (my oil is kinda pine'y, Trainwreck) but I don't know, I'm no flavor designer and only know what tastes good when I try it :)

    There are quite a few clones on ebay, and that is actually where I found my phoenix one pictured on page one.


    If I were to go for 1.6 on 32gauge, I would try to do it with 10 wraps micro coil style :)

    Micro style is a technique where you wrap a really small diameter coil with the coils touching/compressed together. This helps the coil reach temperatures it would not be able to when spread out (same heat in a smaller space = hotter)

    The ONLY reason I don't rock micro coils is durability. With 32ga, I would have to melt my oil and drip it onto the coil, with the heaver gauge coils I can press it strait in, no fuss...... I'm just lazy sometimes LOL

    Hmmmm, oxidized ss mesh wrapped around the post, under the head of a titanium nail to act as the insulator and wrap your wire around that :) e-nail, I know that it will get my cable wicks glowing (not recommended) :)


    mod note: From the rules page- please avoid making back-to-back posts in a thread. Use the Edit feature located at the bottom of your posts. Use manual quote tags to quote multiple posts.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 18, 2013
    Quetzalcoatl likes this.
  7. jrs1418

    jrs1418 New Member

    Messages:
    9
    How many do you have? Yes i'm in Hawaii, Not CONUS, but still U.S. =)

    My last version i actually whipped up yesterday because v5.0 crapped out. I didn't take pix of the build but i can snap an after pic. And also, for a teaser, here's v.4 dual coil. This is my bread and butter but i cannot get it to work on my ecig becuase it shorts out AND resistance is too low for my machine so I gotta use it on my Ego 510 battery. I have some new micro electronic parts coming in so once they do I'm going to try dual coils again.



    And here's my latest one in action. Single coil about 2.6ohm



    5-6 seconds and you got a lung burner
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
    TrueNorthStar likes this.
  8. TrueNorthStar

    TrueNorthStar Active Member

    Messages:
    25

    heheh these Sony batteries are bad ass, gives my MNKE competition, I'll have to do a back to back MNKE vs Sony, but so far the lung dyno says sony is winning :p GREAT FIND HAYWOOD !!!! Thanks soo much!!!!
    BLAZING OG and Haywood like this.
  9. Haywood

    Haywood Onward Thru the Fog

    Messages:
    486
    Glad to help; wait until you have a few charge/discharge cycles in them as they may get (believe it or not) better. :)
    BLAZING OG and TrueNorthStar like this.
  10. TrueNorthStar

    TrueNorthStar Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    damnit, fasttech is out of them, I gave a couple away to good friends for testing, I need more :p
    BLAZING OG likes this.
  11. TrueNorthStar

    TrueNorthStar Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    Just to return the favor, seeing as how I had fallen out of touch with the current "new high drain" batteries (heh I thought my MNKE and AW1600 were the shit :p), I did a lot of research as to the current crop of batteries, anywho I found another good battery, it actually out performs the sony @ 20 amps in the tests Ive seen (holds a higher voltage under load)

    Samsung INR18650-20R

    Ive got a couple on order and will let you know how they compare in this application :)
    BLAZING OG likes this.
  12. TrueNorthStar

    TrueNorthStar Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    I have been confined to my chair for the last week (shoulder surgery), now I have 1/2" less collar bone, 4" more scar tissue and some new cadaver tendon wooo whoo :p I set out to find the end of the internet in my boredom lmao!!

    So I found this : https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10005572/1436800-fogger-clear-tank-rebuildable-atomizer-6-0ml

    It looks like a Taifun GT almost, but after looking at all the pics, this lil bastard with mesh might be the ticket to the top fed genesis idea. @ $40 it would make it an expensive "test" although I have faith I can get it to work in some capacity no matter what but I'd hate to end up with a $40 ornament lol. Biggest problem I see is the tank. Its plastic so you wont be able to heat the oil in the tank from the outside with a lighter.... if the tank were ss It would be on a ship to my house already LOL!
  13. oneinfinitecreator

    oneinfinitecreator Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    86
    hey, sorry if this is slightly off topic, not meaning to derail, but I thought I understood this stuff and ordered a part or two from fasttech but now I realize i have no idea what i'm doing...

    This is the RBA I picked up:

    http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10004946/1384100-did-v2-mini-rebuildable-atomizer-for-diy-18ml

    Will this work for me? Can anybody give me some advice or link on building a coil for oil rather than ejuice? I've seen a few for ejuice but i'm not positive the same strategies apply... I have a multimeter and everything tho, so I understand that I need to be cautious and know how to test everything.

    and if i'm in the wrong place, i'm sorry for being a distraction :D
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
    BLAZING OG likes this.
  14. TrueNorthStar

    TrueNorthStar Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    That RBA is a Mini DID clone, a "Genesis" style atomizer, not what we are using here. While it was stated that you "can" vape off of them just by wiping some wax on the wick.

    That said, if you don't use it for e-liquid, there is really no use for the tank..

    Currently, I like this one from fasttech:

    https://www.fasttech.com/products/1391004

    It will take some work to set your air hole as the stock ones are far too small but for $5 you can't loose! It has a 2-part cap so you can use it as a wax well just like the V6 atomizer pictured in this thread, but with more capacity :) Buy a few and have fun LOL

    I like to use heavier gauge resistance wire for its strength/durability, the whole idea is to keep the "coil" or part of it in a puddle of wax :) If your vape is too hot, add more loops to the coil next time, too cold or not enough, less loops. Always verify the resistance of the coil, and make sure you batteries can handle the amount of current that coil will want to pull, if they can't, they can explode and harm you.


    As a side note: I'm digging vertical coils with hollow mesh wick for "dab" style use :p load a hit and boom, reload/repeat.

    Cheers :)
  15. vape4health

    vape4health Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    752
    Yep or horizontal, wonder if we should worry about chromium when using ss, in a geny they are always wet but dabbing if you hit it too long or dry the ss will glow.
  16. TrueNorthStar

    TrueNorthStar Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    I wouldn't worry about it myself, not because I "know" but I've been welding SS for years, and if that hasn't eff'ed me up yet I don't think this could :p probably not the best logic but its workin for me :p
    BLAZING OG likes this.
  17. Dangus

    Dangus Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

    Messages:
    164
    Location:
    Montana
    Sweet thread!
    Got an RBA on the way and it should be fun to experiment...

    been doing some reading on this subreddit:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/rba

    Cheers!
    BLAZING OG likes this.
  18. upsetter21

    upsetter21 Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Alameda, California USA
    Here's my latest work... a Terminator Dripping Atty. Joined AWG30 Nickle wire to AWG32 Kanthal using a capacitive wire welder. Wrapped a small 1.8Ohm coil. Threaded the coil into the hollow section of XC-116 ceramic braided wick. Wrapped #400 Oxidized Stainless Steel Mesh over the XC-116. Assembled the coil/wick low in the ceramic. Can put large balls of wax in this and blow yer head off! Cheers.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
  19. Doug

    Doug Just passing time

    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    Midwest
    That is impressive. This thread really got me thinking about starting to make my own. I don't think I even want something as crazy as your latest creation, but the ones with SS wick and mesh from the beginning looking to be what I want in a portable oil vape. Where should I begin to shop for parts for all of this?
    BLAZING OG likes this.
  20. upsetter21

    upsetter21 Member

    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Alameda, California USA
    First off, I can't say how much I like this Terminator Dripping Atty for concentrates. The big advantage it offers over a usual dripping atty is the inclusion of a large ceramic cup. I highly recommend getting yer hands on one if you can stomach the price. Stormy's vapor cellar is selling the last batch right now. I have two, and will never give them up. They're made of high quality Stainless Steel, and the machining is quite good. I can't see any reason why these won't last a lifetime. The only expendable parts are the o-rings, and for some the ceramic. Some people report breaking their ceramics, although it's never happened to me and I've dropped them, dremmeled them, vaped a hell-of-a-lot from them, and never had one break. I guess some people feel the need to torch them until they turn white between uses, and I would conclude this affects the strength. I don't torch at all, and just live with a stained ceramic. Dark e-juice can stain them, and of course THC oil or wax really stains them. I still clean with Iso Alcohol, and/or boil in water until solids go away, but I've never had any flavor imparted by a stained ceramic, and I accept a porous material would take on some of the matter that is burning in it. I do however torch the metal ceramic holder. I do this because THC concentrate seem to bond with the steel to the point where mild solvents and/or water have no chance, and so I take the cast-iron-skillet thinking and torch until the threads are clean enough to screw, but I don't concern myself with the darkness as I consider it cured like a cast iron skillet.

    There are many places to get the wire. I use a supplier that caters to the electric motor market, but has recently grown aware of the vaping. They even have great educational resources geared towards vapers, such as this:
    http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/product_selection.html?p=flat_ribbon_kanthal

    So that's Tower Electric Motor Co., 41484 Christy St., Fremont CA 94538

    The price of 100' rolls of wire is quite small. I've been wrapping the AWG32 Kanthal and AWG30 Nickle for months and I've barely made a dent in my supply, and I've been no wire miser.

    If you are more socially aware you may also care to know about a supplier called http://silicawicks.com/
    He's been an upstanding member of the vaping community for some time now, and started a business to help supply and demystify some of these materials, and he passes on some good hardware deals also. It's more socially aware to support this supplier because he's a disabled person and I'd call it good will to purchase from him.

    The XC-116 is a little harder to source. It's not permitted for export for some reason. I can only guess that it would be useful in bomb making or something so it's a US-only product. There are similar materials abroad however. It's a ceramic braid rope. I've only seen a hollow variety. Here is some more info and supplier: http://www.omega.com/pptst/XC_XC4_SLEEVING.html

    I find this to be a very fun and rewarding hobby. If you like tinkering, I'd say, don't be intimidated, fork over some cash for these parts and start having fun experimenting.

    This inner-coiled XC-116 with SS mesh over-wrap is simply the best setup I've come up with. I like the fact that the coil is protected inside, and that seems to prevent the occasional combustion that occurs in an outer wick. The mesh does the majority of the skillet work, instead of mucking up the coil which over time insulates it from producing heat. In this setup I can dry burn and scrape the muck without touching the coil. It always glows red hot after a cleaning. The SS wrap also contains all the fibers of the XC-116, which would simply unravel if such a small piece was cut without something wrapped over it. It seems to take on the heat from the coil as it glows bright as you can see in my pics. I can't name the exact science at work, but for some reason when I didn't include the XC-116 (using only SS mesh), my concentrates were mostly repelled upon heating and melted material went everywhere but onto the coil. The XC-116's wicking properties seem to draw the good stuff toward the heat, every time.

    If you want to go all the way serious with this business, a capacitive wire-welder is a great tool to have. You can also get ready-made wires from Stormy's. These are already joined resistive to non-resistive wires. If you still want to join your own, I recommend AWG30 Silver. It's softer than nickle and therefor easier to tie into a knot. The best knot for joining R-to-NR wire is the albright knot. People also do simple twists, but it's a PITA.

    Hope that gets some more DIY'ers rolling. Cheers.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
    BLAZING OG likes this.
  21. MileHighLife

    MileHighLife i eat hippies

    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    CO
    TrueNorthStar have you seen these ceramic wicks:
    http://www.discountvapers.com/fc-2000-ceramic-wick-7-64-x-1-1-2/

    Your thread inspired me and I've just put in orders with fasttech, ebay and amazon for everything I will need to get started ... cost me less than $60 for everything. I didn't order the ceramic wick yet because I'd already placed an order for stainless mesh but I'll probably try it out on a later build.

    Edit: @Doug check out fasttech.com for insane deals on the parts you'll need
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
    BLAZING OG and Doug like this.
  22. BLAZING OG

    BLAZING OG Vaping is a way of life!

    Messages:
    1,479
    Location:
    Sherman Oaks, CA
    Thanks to @TrueNorthStar and everyone posting ,cant wait to get some more gear from fasttech to start this project up.

    That hard ceramic looks cool but is it easy to cut down to size ? to use in a rebuildable atty?
    MileHighLife likes this.
  23. MileHighLife

    MileHighLife i eat hippies

    Messages:
    631
    Location:
    CO
    I'm interested in this too
  24. Puffers

    Puffers Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    882
    Location:
    Cali, Bay Area
    This thread is so bad ass it's funny cause the other day I googled info about sub ohm builds for oil and what popped up but my favorite spot FC :lol:

    Ya I can't look at fasttech too much I'll just keep throwing stuff in my shopping cart. I just ordered a bunch of shit a rebuildable (Q2 atty) uses a ceramic cup that comes with two spare cups til I figure out what I want to rebuild it with. A nemesis mech mod clone and some wax burners one glass bulb and a stealth ego size atty. Really interested in building a more high power setup in the future so I really appreciate all input from everyone. I'll keep everyone posted on how they turn out.
  25. clukx

    clukx Active Member

    Messages:
    105
    how many hits are you guys getting per load? can a heavy user load it once and go all day?
    BLAZING OG likes this.

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