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Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by TrueNorthStar, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Vapology

    Vapology Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    101
    The level 2 doesn't look to bad actually but I found out that these coils are a little bit to complicated for a noob to start with. The taste was bad so I definitely had hot spots :suspicious:

    Really? So you have never seen a coil like that? Strange ... I just started to twist the wire around the needle and then it was kind of obvious what I had to make :)

    Maybe it's the coffee-table-coil or the pivot or pirouette-coil ...?!
    [​IMG]


    That's the pro stuff :tup:
     
    2clicker likes this.
  2. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    Trudat. Sorry for your sacrifice to the canna goddess. Hotspots are inevitable. To fire properly, none of the levels can touch at any point. If that happens, and it always does, the effect is usually devastating.

    Tonight's slightly out-of-focus coil, inspired by your efforts.

    [​IMG]

    Before each use, you need to get the coil firing like this. You'll know it when you see it.

    @Boden's are contact coils. Haven't worked much with these. Also uses kanthal, popular with pre-TC mech mod vapers. Are these coils essentially one big hotspot?

    Don't think so. You, @2clicker?

    One vote for pirouette.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
    Vapology likes this.
  3. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    ive seen something similar. when i used to run wire through ReadyXWick and make stovetops from that (the DBC) i would make them sometimes with another mini stovetop just below the center of the main one. resembling this, but not out of exotic wire. also that is more than a mini stovetop below it so i can say no. lol
     
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  4. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    Tried wrapping something like this last night, but couldn't get it.The coil above is one of the best. Even using it after cleaning. (The two-step ultrasonic treatment got it shining like new in 30 minutes.)

    @Vapology, have you read this entire thread, from the beginning? It's a history of e-cigs from the POV of stoners adapting the gear.
     
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  5. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    @Accept... so youve already tried the two step ultrasonic cleaner method?

    30 mins? how gunked was the coil going in?
     
  6. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    Had done it a few times previously, with metal detergent followed by oxide remover - emptying the basin in between. :doh: Almost bought a second ultrasonic cleaner.

    The coil wasn't bad. Tried a little too hard to get an in-focus glow shot.
     
    2clicker likes this.
  7. jpdnkstr

    jpdnkstr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    725
    Location:
    Third Coast
    I want a hat trick coil, that looks excellent, keep us posted.
     
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  8. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    it works really well. ideally each coil would act as a revior holding the oil in between the wraps as well as inside the tube of the coil. i still havent loaded it up fully because im not a super cloud chaser. im not looking to waste any meds here ya dig? lol. but if youre into the super clouds itll do that to. i guess what im saying is i load what fills my lungs nicely and its not even close to filling the HTC up.

    it tastes great and starts vaping instantly when you hit the button. true on demand dabbing. but that goes for any wire or mesh build really. anyway in short she performs great. that coil in the pic lasted from when i posted that pic to just a few hours ago. so a few days before needing to be swapped out.
     
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  9. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    i made a smaller version of the hat trick coil last night and this fucker RIPS!!! i wrapped it on a really small drill bit. easily less than 1mm. ill put the calipers on it later. so i think the small wrap of the micro coils account for its super quick heating. i had to back off the wattage and pre-heat settings a bit to get that low temp dab, but its there now. 18watts, .18ohms, 380F and its still a cloud maker. first rip on this coil was at 35watts! lol and it kicked my ass. thick white clouds. at 35watts the flavor was lacking, but lower wattage has fixed that. this one may be a bit small for those looking to load monster dabs, but it holds more than i need from a dab a time and will choke you out if you let it. instant clouds.
     
    215z, GreenHopper, Vapology and 2 others like this.
  10. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    Yet another sacrifice to the canna goddess. Tried to wrap a long micro-coil into a coil. Something like a 26g core-less clapton. Inspired by HTC.

    Didn't get it working and no more shatter for weeks. :(
     
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  11. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780

    just now seeing this. dont remember seeing an alert.

    anyway... that sucks! but youve got flowers til then yeah?

    i have also attemped the coreless clapton wrapped into a coil, but couldnt get it to stay put.
     
  12. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    It's okay - a much needed t-break. Inhaling a full bag of smoky, flower vapor produces barely noticeable effects. Freeze-drying some popcorn buds for QWET. Home-grown probably isn't as strong as what most FCers get.

    Try tempering the wire first. Shatter definitely needs to be melted in before hitting. Need one of these gizmos.

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
  13. blimeydude

    blimeydude New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Accept,

    I'm back at it again. Great to see you and 2clicker keep this thread going.

    I wanted to ask first what your thoughts were on utilizing those SourceVape cups were in terms of effectiveness? I like the idea of on the go hitting without having to refill for at least 5-8 hits. If you had the wire underneath and around the sides, how effective was it and what were the cons? I'm guessing inconsistent heating around the entire cup? Granted, that could be a good thing since it would heat up the wax at only a certain part allowing you to hit a little bit at a time.

    I like 2clickers mesh screen idea, and I'd probably go in that direction for it's quick and easy approach, but I'm sure there is a crap ton of reclaim that most likely will splatter everywhere and be hard to get at if it goes down the vandy vape holes on the bottom of the deck.

    I've still been using the cup approach with the CETO rda, but if you load it up to much it will lead through all over the rda. Luckily the CETO has a flat bottom that's relatively easy to get all the reclaim. Plus, I like how tall it is for easier builds for this specific cup application.

    What I'm currently thinking is possibly using aluminum foil or some kinda wrap to hold in any reclaim for either easier recovery or so it will be able to be vaped on the next hit. Does anyone have ideas or criticism of this idea? Like will aluminum foil being exposed to hot coils put off any unwanted/unhealthy vapors? I'm not sure exactly how to wrap the foil around just yet so it stays put, but it could be a novel idea. Or, if you have a tall and narrow cup, I could see putting some cup coils I've been using inside the tall/narrow cup as well to stop reclaim from dripping out.

    I'm trying to get something quick, easy, that can load a lot on for many hits, and that won't spill reclaim everywhere.
     
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  14. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    Hi, @blimeydude!

    Gave up on this idea, basically because it seemed to offer no real improvement over using the ceramic cup atomizer as intended. As you've probably noticed, the wire needs to get red hot to heat the cup enough to vape concentrate. In the ceramic cup atomizers, this wire is not exposed in the air-path, which is probably safer. Also, it's probably better to keep the cup close to vertical while in use to prevent spillage over the top. Still haven't come up with an ideal solution for a few hits on the go.

    Cool - very curious about this RDA! Also like the tall form factor.

    Concerned aluminum foil will simply catch fire if in contact with a red-hot coil, especially if a little oil is present to encourage it. Be careful! Never looked into aluminum toxicity, and it is used in cookware. Recall theories implicating it in Alzheimers, but don't know if this is still a concern.
     
  15. blimeydude

    blimeydude New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Good to know Accept.

    My idea for the sourcevape cups is this, make a stove top coil that the cup will sit on. Make the coil large enough to extend beyond the cup and allow you to wrap some mesh around the cup and between the wires of the stove top coil.

    Utilize long enough mesh when doing so and cut notches underneath the stove top and above the cup. Then bend the mesh over and below to lock the cup on to the stove top.

    This way, the stove top will heat up the mesh as well, thus heating the sides and drawing to the bottom of the cup where the stove top will get the bottom hot enough to vaporize. Plus with the mesh covering the top you won't have to worry about it spilling out if tilt it.

    Also, use temperature control to prevent the stove top coil from getting too hot and thus causing air quality concerns since it is exposed to the air.
     
    2clicker likes this.
  16. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    If you're referring to SS mesh, keep in mind that it's conductive. It will short your coil if it's in contact with it. Vapers sometimes use oxidized SS mesh as a wick - this use is even described elsewhere in this thread.

    Doubt this will offer much improvement over using just wire for these purposes.

    Most TC tops out at 600F. The wire will need to be hotter than this in order to heat the quartz or ceramic cup sufficiently to vape concentrate. You could adjust the TCR value to regulate at a higher temp, but it will need to be very hot.
     
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  17. blimeydude

    blimeydude New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Yep, I was assuming the mesh would be oxidized.

    The purpose of the mesh is to allow the wire to concentrate the heat on the bottom and for the mesh to hold the cup in place and prevent spillage from tilting.

    Also, I believe you can vape was at 400 to 500 degrees F. Not sure why'd you'd have to get that high such as over 600.
     
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  18. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    @Accept is saying that in order for the wire to produce enough heat to heat the cup enough to vaporize then the wire will need to be hotter than your desired vape temp. for example if you want the cup at 400 then your wire will need to be hotter to achieve this. accept was saying he belives the wire would need to be hotter than 600 to get the suface of the ceramic to 400 for vaping. im not sure tho and like you am curious as hell about a wire cup to hold a ceramic cup. i do not believe any metal taste could occure if the oil never touches it. and the metal trace or wires in my ceramic donuts dont even come close to glowing and they vape well. i think good vaporization could be achived with this method between the 400-600F range.

    accept may be right, but i still want to try it. @Accept... have you already tried the SV cups wrapped in wire? id love to be able to source SiC cups. without having to buy a $19 SiC coil from SV. but im about to order one anyway...

    other notables... i have been playing around with a DT V3 and the extra donut/cups and have some pics to share. i was able to successfully mount a donut/cup in a Mesh Pro rda and it works well. the airflow comes in below the cup just like the V3. there are some positives to using third party rda with the donuts. but there is one big negative for the Mesh Pro rda using a donut... the cup and donut mount nicely on top of the MPs clamps, but its far too close to the drip tip. makes for harsh hits. tasty as hell, but harsh.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    i can say tho that im loving the swab clean after each dab. so far i feel like this is superior to a wire build in that regard. regards to flavor im still not sure, but its def good. also clamping the donut leads is much better imo. clamping them in bars does zero damage or shape changing to them. you could clamp them countless times and theyd still look brand new. clamps may extend the life of a donut that may otherwise fall victin to a broken lead.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  19. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    Yes, described briefly in the post below. The problem is that the cup doesn't heat quickly enough. This is only what you'd expect. It's like loading your dab into a cold dish or banger and then powering up your e-nail heater. There's a reason nobody does this.

    You could probably use a longer drip tip or taller top cap. Do so routinely with the Sapor V2 top cap which has top and side airflow. (The resulting frankenstein RDA has bottom, side, and top airflow.) You might need to swap o-rings to get a seal.
     
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  20. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    well actually some are doing it. SourceVapes is at least. the cup sits directly on a stovetop coil. and many people enjoy them. whether or not SV has questionable materials in their attys idk, but from what i understand the stovetop under their cup is sufficient. i dont see why that isnt easily replicated or even improved upon. then again... i havent tried and you have.

    and yeah i think im going to mount a cup/donut in my VV Mesh rda. that would keep the cup/donut further from the output. might still be too close, but then i can look for other options. an atty with dedicated bottom airflow and clamps would work really well i think.
     
    tennisguru1 likes this.
  21. nosmoking

    nosmoking Fogmonger

    Messages:
    1,393
    Location:
    DC Area
    Source is not stocking SiC cups anymore. They were too thin. I had two break on me during initial heat up.

    After the first broke following their recommended TC settings they replaced the first cup I had and advised of new lower recommended settings. I noticed they changed the settings or their website at this time also. I got the second cup which was just as thin and used settings lower than what they recommended and it cracked again during the initial heat up. After the second time od this happening they offered a quartz replacement. Next thing I know they put them out of stock on their website.

    Their quartz dish is pretty nice actually. It has a skillet below the dish and it heats up quickly. The only problem with cup designs now is that your going to have waste. The bigger diameter the more conc you need and you will always be left with some in the cup if you want to avoid dry firing. You are going to want to avoid a dry fire hit which to me is when there is not enough concentrate in the cup so the floor gets too hot and the concentrate then runs away up the walls. This is not going to cause leaks if the cup is tall enough like the XXL is but it will create bad taste and harshness and less vapor. If you load the cup up enough the concnetrate will bubble and boil and keep the floor from overheating and going dry but as soon as you take a few monstrous hits your back down to the floor getting dry. If you swab it at this point, its a lot of semi vaped hits being wasted. Or you add more concentrate which gets diluted with the old and immediately looses flavor and potency.
     
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  22. blimeydude

    blimeydude New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Accept, the problem I think with your prior experiments was wrapping the coil up the sides and not using a dedicated stove top coil design solely to concentrate the heat. Thus, if you use the mesh I'm hoping the heat will only minimally transfer to the mesh and stay with the coil.

    With this design, I think you will have more efficient heat transfer and could keep the temps lower.

    Accept, I'd say try it and see.
     
  23. blimeydude

    blimeydude New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Assuming I'm being clear enough that is just using words and not drawing something out.
     
  24. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    736
    It's difficult to see, but in post quoted above, the build on the left consists of two separate coils - a stove-top coil under the cup (which you can't really see), and a coil wrapped around the side of the cup. (Actually wrapped it around a slightly smaller wooden dowel and then popped the cup into it.) Both are heated - a dual coil build. It worked okay, but required too much power and got too hot to produce a hit quickly.

    By all means, try to get it working. Just seemed unlikely, IMO, so moved on to something better.
     
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  25. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    ugh that sucks. i was going to order one today, but it probably would have broken. i was looking forward to trying a SiC cup.

    do you have any cups youre not using? id be more than happy to pay you for them. i want to experiment still.

    anyone have any experience molding or forming/shaping alumina and silicon carbide ceramics? ive got a kiln :rockon:
     
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