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Advanced E-cig users and oil/wax, how-to "one-hitter-quitter"

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by TrueNorthStar, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    Other things being equal, it makes sense. But when are other things ever equal?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Even two versions of the same Pulse RDA perform very differently in terms of airflow. The Pulse works so well because it's small, but there may well be big deck designs and builds that work even better, over all. Currently vaping e-juice from a big, parallel tri-braid/clapton coil in the Pulse 22. With squonking, it's the best e-juice experience ever.

    By all means, play with your old toys! That's what's fun about this hobby.
     
    2clicker likes this.
  2. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    i used to run my diamond back coils in that lil guy and that was flavor central.
     
  3. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    Tonight's build:

    [​IMG]

    26g tri-braid. It's been tempered as above, cleaned, and used once or twice. Tri-braid might be better than that quad-core clapton for this, but 26g is a little too big.

    So what does it look like? Some sort of oven, pot or basket?

    And the flavor on TC can be almost too intense, which is just about right.:nod:
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  4. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    nice. i bet a 30 or 32 gauge wire would work well. it looks like a water well from the side. which instantly reminds me of the Goonies. “troys bucket coil”...? lol

    new Mesh Pro RDA is out for delivery today. should be any min now. and get this shit... last night i got curious and installed a stock VV mesh strip into my VVM, dry fired it like normal, but this time when i ran it in TC the coil would not TC. it would just glow dull red. i do not understand why i get such varied results with this mesh. after a few mins of it clearly not working right in TC... the glowing stopped. so i loaded a dab and it was very good. then after the rip i fired it uncapped to see if i got that burn off of the residuals that i was originally getting. the reason i moved on from this mesh. i tried like hell to get it to do this again, but could not. it just gave me amazing dab after amazing dab. lol i dont get it at all.

    so as of now the stock strip is working very well and not over heating in TC. BUT... after about a 1/4 gram through it i can see the pores are already clogging. so i think this mesh count would need to be replaced every 1-2 days depending on ones vaping habits.

    im a bit frustrated by all the dif results i get with this fine wire mesh. just cant figure what the variables that are at play here. :hmm:
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
    Vapology likes this.
  5. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    Thanks - don't know the Goonies, but that's very imaginative. This particular coil is especially difficult to keep firing properly. These level 3 inception coils develop hot spots very easily.You really need to check before each use. @Boden's are contact coils, but not TC. Enjoying the flavor.

    [​IMG]

    The snake charmer's basket, WDYT? Starting to like the lid, especially with the flip. Couldn't get a good temper. Dumb question - why is the resistance ten times greater when the wire is in a loop?

    Hoping to inspire some pics of your new atty!

    So, length does matter. :brow: Need an electrical engineer to explain. Are you running one of your DNA profiles? Might need to adjust. How expensive is an inch of Vandy mesh? Can it be considered disposable/recyclable? It's so easy to replace.

    What did your build look like? The full-length loop gets pretty close to the top.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  6. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    youve never seen the Goonies?

    the stock strip build was cut short so it wasnt too long like it is in stock length. it was similar to my fisrt mesh pic in this thread, but maybe a 1/4” taller.

    after more use and attempting to replace it i have completely given up on the stock VV mesh. every single time i use it now i get different results. that one strip worked great, but gunked quickly so yesterday i go to replace it. this stuff is fragile for our use. if any oil gets in the clamps it basically glues this mesh to them. you have to be careful removing it as not to bend, deform, or even tear this stuff. i have also tried to soak this mesh to remove gunk and cannot get it out of the pores. this meah is far too fine to be sustainably reusable IMO. anyway, so i get an identical strip re-installed. ohmed out the same. about .28-.30ohms. and started dry fired it through some pretty colors until it was ready for use. then it wouldnt TC. my dna chip was regulating it, but not below the set temp. it was a very dull glow, but it was there. and it was burning dabs. then i took it off, made sure everything was snug and in order and popped it back on. then it wasnt regulating shit. just glowing hot af. then i put the strip back in that was working, the one i was replacing, and it wouldnt work. none of this shit makes any sense to me. lol. i also had a weird issue with the larger ID wire mesh this weekend. im not giving up on the new stuff yet, but i am def starting to wonder how good of an option mesh is. when its working its fucking incredible, but getting consistent results is proving to be harder than expected. its possible mesh is just too finicky for oil use. ive never had any of these issues with reg wire builds. not once.

    so because of my mesh dilemma the rig on me now has a wire build. reliable af and tasting great.

    ive not given up yet tho because of the potential. looking forward to the newest samples yet to come in. maybe the stock strip configuration is the culprit here...? mesh has far more “leads” than reg wire builds do. each wire in the mesh running leghth wise from clamp to clamp are leads. each one of them. the wires in the mesh, running side to side, that don’t actually get clamped dont get powered like the wire clamped. so maybe that has something to do with it? if the stock configuration wont work, with any mesh, then a “mesh coil” should be great. just like my pics you told me to share on reddit. except more open area. that mesh coil worked almost identically to a reg wire build. more to come. hopefully less headaches tho!
     
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  7. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    Afraid not.

    Been using Vandy mesh for reclaim. Agree, it's very finicky. At one point, the EHPro was regulating at 200F, but it was clearly more like 500F. And the mesh needs to be replaced after each use. This application must be right on the edge of what this gear can handle. Hope the new stuff works!
     
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  8. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    please dont be offended, but are you american? lol kidding

    you must be younger then. its a classic from when i was a kid. im 38 now. even today it’s probably pretty great for kids to see. you should check it out sometime.

    anyway, so now im thinking a thin strip of mesh, coiled like my pics, in a nice semi porous mesh will be ideal. 25-35% open area seems great. should wick well and allow you to see if anything is still in those pores before loading again. and you know what RDAs look perfect for that build? a govad or pharoah dripper tank. wouldnt even have to bend the leads.

    oh and something i realized using the thick wire mesh... you can dry burn this mesh clean from gunk between each rip if wanted! i was able to successfully do this. and i did it like 3 times consecutively. this way you can get ensure there is nothing left over. i kept ripping it after this dry burn and was not getting any flavor of any kind. and the following rips tasted amazing. not sure its something ill do after each rip, but maybe once or twice a day. oh and i was able to do this by raising the temp only. yeah it cooked the residuals, but there was hardly any on it. just pop the cap off, raise the temp, fire it until you see no vapor or smoke. then raise the temp abother 10-20 deg and fire it again (only to test the cleaning. after time youll get used to it and not need to test). you will see nothing. at that point your wire is pretty damn bare again. there will be dark stains on the wire after doing this, but it doesn’t contaminate the flavor from what i can tell.

    hoping some of the new samples are arrive today. im sure these mesh MFGs and vendors love me right now. lolz.

    oh yeah i took some pics of a 30 count mesh with .0085 diameter wire. this time a reg strip ohmed far too low. so i took another strip of it and doubled its length. the. folded it over on itself to create 60 mesh count and hoped it would equal “longer leads” to allow for some resistance. well it did. it ohmed at .4-.5ohms and colored well. then i took one rip and it blew my head off. it was too hot. lol. then i noticed it was giving me the super low glow. dna chip set at 380F, 15watts, and .4ohms. just could not keep it from glowing. again it was a VERY low glow. had to turn the lights off to see it, but in TC there should be zero glow. so this strip was unsuccessful. looked nice in the Mesh Pro tho.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  9. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    Is it an offense to think someone might be American? Understandable, but sad.

    Older. Barely remember thirty-eight. Long dry spell. Different life.

    Absolutely, like in the video @Vapology posted. But is the end result really that different from a flattened coil wrapped with braided wire? Easy enough to compare.

    Does this mesh come in strips or squares? Squares would be inconvenient, unless you've found an easy way to cut it. If it's already cut into strips, this method sounds easier than cutting it lengthwise and wrapping a coil.

    To me, the important thing is that it's regulating. The number's just the result of the equation the chip is running. If it's stable and tastes like 380F, it's a success.

    More coilporn-worthy pics and a very appealing RDA. Good luck with it!

    It's harvest time.

    [​IMG]

    Tired, but it's a memorable yield. Harvesting incrementally, so much of the plant is still in the ground. Gonna be on the trim soon while the buds cure.
     
  10. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    lol no. i meant dont be offended by the question in general. not that you may be american.

    ahhhh i see. trust me Goonies is a classic.

    i dont remember that video, but yes a flattened coil made from a thin strip of mesh. is the end result, using mesh in this fashion, dif from a flattened braided wire build? in a couple of ways yes. first would be its ease of build. cut it, bend it, done. versus building the braided wire yourself. if you buy youre exitic wire to do this then id say the mesh is way cheaper than purchasing small amounts of exotic wire. another dif... is that you can see the dab in the mesh. or whatever is left. this would not be the case with clapton type builds, but maybe braided...? i find this extremely helpful in knowing when to reload for optimal flavor.

    well it comes however these MFGs send it to me. got some 12” square pieces and some smaller peices. this stuff is very easy to cut. ive been using a reg ol pair of house scissors. old dull ones in fact and it cuts the mesh easily. no worries there.

    well yes, but IME if glows it wont taste like 380. or 400... or even 450. glow equals burn. so to me glow equals failure every time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  11. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    So, if the mod's regulating, but what it says is 380F tastes more like 600F, can't you lower the temperature setting or TCR value and get the result you want?
     
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  12. Vapology

    Vapology Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    101
    I tried to measure the temp of the coil with a ir-thermometer but without success. When does ss316l starts to glow? At which temperature?
    I understand that the coil is used as a temperature indicator: No glow - dull glow - full glow
    Our vaping sweetspot should be between no glow and dull glow but without glowing, right? :uhh:

    And when the coil starts glowing, it always oxidize (dark burnt color?) and the taste will always be bad!?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  13. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    sure, but i shouldnt have to. i want this shit to work at the temp i set it at. the chip is more than capable. so if its not giving me an accurate 380-420F dab, when set at those temps, then its not working properly and needs to be adjusted. IMO.

    sure itll work the other way, but i want this shit working as intended or im not satisfied. my wire builds never glow in TC. they work as they should. mesh on the other hand... harder to properly TC. so far at least.

    your sweet spot should be no glow. the wire is more than hot enough to vape your oil well before glowing occurs. at what temp that is idk. but in the 380-420F range, the range at which our goodies vape at, your wire should not even come close to glowing. i imagine glowing begins around 500-550F...? i just know its a lot hotter than where you want it.

    glowing doesnt always equal oxidation. not with SS316L anyway. a dull glow is ideal for prepping it for use. its the bright red to white hot glow that will produce oxidation. if your coil glows super bright red to white then replace it and clean it with oxidation removers. i dont let my coils get this hot so its a non issue for me.

    just goolge dry burning SS coils and you should find all kinds of videos of ecig vapers prepping their coils. use that system and youll be straight.
     
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  14. Vapology

    Vapology Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    101
    Great advice. That's what I wanted to know :clap::rockon:
     
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  15. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    Vapology likes this.
  16. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    Don't want to discourage you from following your dream of getting the number on the display to correspond to the actual temperature, but in the mean time, you can work around it and still enjoy tasty hits.

    Found this chart interesting. Apparently blacksmiths go by color. Glowing starts much hotter than the range we want, so we'd need to go by taste. IME, it's very easy to tell the difference between a 450F hit and a 600F hit. Like the higher temps because they produce stronger and more stony effects, IMO. Of course, you can always enjoy the flavor at low temp and then raise it to finish off the dab.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    not to worry as i cannot be discouraged. i am already 100% successful with wire builds so ive nothing to be discouraged about. mesh is very discouraging though lol.

    and yes i know all about the workarounds. used them all the time when TC first hit the box mods. but things are more sophisticated now and those workarounds are not necessary anymore.

    this chart... what metal is it graphing? not all are the same. so if this is for reg steel then our 316L numbers will be different i think. they may be close though idk. i can say that i mispoke when answering @Vapology about when 316L may start to glow. even set at 550F my wire builds still do not glow. maybe not even at 600F. ill check later tonight. so that just proves how far off from the preferred temp you actually are when you observe glowing. in short... fuck glowing of any kind when using the coil.

    and for sure flavor is one of the top indicators. i use the settings on the mod and the flavor and i know everything i need to know.

    i would also like to add that dabs above 430-450 start to taste burnt to me. like an overheated torch nail. so yeah you can def tell the dif between a 380F dab and a 600F dab. one tastes good and the other is fucking gross. lol.

    EDIT: i think a Govad is in my future. lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
    tennisguru1, jpdnkstr and Vapology like this.
  18. Vapology

    Vapology Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    101
    I'm getting better. More important - taste is getting better. Now I get why you guys are so enthusiastic about this hole wax rda thing. It's easy. It's cheap. It's fast. It's effective. It's tasty.
    And it really works :D
     
  19. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    For wickless mesh, that's evidently not the case.

    From a quick search, material doesn't matter much, so they should be close. Like this chart, because the metal colors in the low range seem accurate.

    Don't forget portable!
     
  20. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    exactly. and it looks like reg ol ecig equipment vs some of the products marketed for oil. forget buying over priced premade stuff unless you dont want to mess with it. even then with mesh this can be very easy.

    idk i just do not see why there arent more heads participating in this thread vs all of the activity in the branded threads. esp considering this is EVERY bit as good as anything being offered. better even. especially if you really dial it in.

    cheaper and better....? yes please!

    yeah mesh is a new animal. if it turns out that mesh cannot be run normally in TC, and that workarounds are needed, then ill be done with mesh until it can be TC properly. it doesnt have that much of an advantage over wire builds to justify wonky settings anyway really. i like the idea of mesh because of its ease of use. and it looks nice. other than that i dont see any advantages over wire builds. i really want mesh to work out though. i expected the latest samples to arrive already, but they have not.

    about the chart. i suppose it doesnt matter much, but if that chart is for say nickel then itll be considerably differnt from 316L. its probably for reg steel though seeing as how its from a blacksmith. how far off from 316L idk. maybe not much, but id be willing to bet you could find a chart specifically for 316L.

    close enough is probably fine, but i prefer to be as accurate as possible. either way the chart does give us a good idea of what to expect.
     
    Vapology likes this.
  21. Vapology

    Vapology Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    101
    I'm very happy that my first waxpen was not a waxpen but a vandy vape mesh rda + selfmade clapton stovetop coils. It needed some days to figure out what to do and make the right adjustments and today I managed to get great flavor and smooth vapor - hit after hit after hit :D

    Thanks for sharing all your knowledge and experience.
    You guys saved me a lot of money :nod:
     
  22. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    Consumer culture. People are trained to solve problems by buying something rather than DIY.

    Agreed. Largely abandoned mesh in favor of coils.

    From Wikipedia:

    Found more detail in forum posts, but less reliable.

    You're welcome! The only thing better than dabbing on coils is getting somebody else to try it. Have fun (and post pics)!

    New wire, gotta get wrappin'
     
  23. 2clicker

    2clicker we out there Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    4,780
    so ive been thinkin about flavor and about how oil gets caught in all those nooks n crannies made by the dif kinds of builds we make. and wondered if they contribute to or take away from flavor in any way. originally designed to wick, but could also be hold oil that could normally vape off. then i thought why not build a coil from reg ol round wire. no clapton no nothing. just the surface area of the wire in a coil. and to increase surface area, larger OD wire is needed. i also wondered if a micro coil could be a resivoire for oil... inside the tube of the coil. if the coil is wrapped on something small enough it should hold oil in there. also, with this being a reg wire build and it being spaced... this should allow one to see what is left in the coil easily.

    then i thought that a skinny little micro coil isnt going to cut it. it would be hard to load and only hold so much oil. then i thought why not put two of them in there side by side... or what about three of them???

    well i did it and named it the Hat Trick Coil. its three coils wrapped around a 1.5mm rod on a coil master. then they are placed next to each other to form a “flat” loading surface. the leads worked out better than i thought. so i colored her up and into TC she went. regulating like a charm and there were zero hot spots. its working VERY well. and i like that i can look at it quickly to determine if there was anything in there that could get nasty later. as you can see i only twisted the leads a bit so it could be mounted in the VVM. this allows the VVM clamps to contact each lead individually and evenly instead of clamping on the twisted wire. settings on my dna chip are: .15ohms, 25watts, and anywhere from 380-420F. huge flavoful dabs. we will see how long before she gunks and needs replacing.

    anyway, here she is pre mount. my Hat Trick Coil.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    improvements can and will be made to this one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
  24. Vapology

    Vapology Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    101
    Here are my first ever made coils. Inspired from @Accept 's inception coils and @Boden 's stovetopcoil. I thought no.3 would do the trick and it's an easy and fast built.
    [​IMG]

    I had to built the coil much shorter to fit in the VVM and now it works perfect.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
    GreenHopper, jpdnkstr, Boden and 2 others like this.
  25. Accept

    Accept Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    727
    Wow - thanks so much for trying inception coils! Looks like a level 3 and a level 2. Did you get them to fire without hot-spots? That's the real challenge, IME.

    And you've already created something new! What do you call your stemmed stove-top? It's a good idea. @Boden's stove-tops have a little wrap underneath. Your coil should improve performance.

    Yours is nice too, @2clicker. ;)

    "Clapception" refers to a type of wire in which claptons are used for the core and wrap, instead of ordinary wire. A clapception inception coil could be very interesting.:sherlock:
     
    2clicker likes this.

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