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"Addicted" because you vape every day?

Discussion in 'Medical Discussion' started by BabyFacedFinster, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Alex3oe

    Alex3oe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    102
    Have heard this from several friends. "Your depression is drug related." "But I have depressions as long as I can remember, tried to commit suicide with 14, had not drunk even a beer at this age." "Your depression is drug related."

    Me for myself went to a therapist about 20 years ago. "Are you doing drugs?" "For my relations I drink quite some beer this times, about 3-5 liters a day." "No, I'm talking about drugs." Ended up with a prescription for Venlafaxin. What a filth. Took one pill, never a second and never went to a therapist again.
     
  2. Dirtrider

    Dirtrider Active Member

    Messages:
    53
    Replace the term cannabis with the term exercise or video games or rich(fatty/spicy) foods or social media.
    With this list seems like anything could be considered a disorder - or nothing depending on how you define impairment of function and distress. I know someone who is probably addicted to cannabis but I assure you he is not in distress or even 'significant impairment'.
     
  3. Mr.Sifter

    Mr.Sifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    807
    I dont want an excuse for my consumption.
    I dont wanna say "hey look, I have this diganosis xyz and I need to vape to live my life".

    its just that I face so many unfair treatments because of cannabis.
    I dont think of me as a regular stoner in an illegal country.

    I have mental problems but I am not sure they arrive from my cannabis use.
    More so I think I treat these symptoms with cannabis so I can live with my mental (personality) impairment.

    e.g. low self esteem, upwards comparisson, envy, jealousy, cant concentrate, feeling negative etc etc

    when I consumce I can like my self.
    Ok, i still get nothing done in terms of meeting and putting up future goals.

    Maybe cannabis is the root of all my problems.
    maybe it got me depressed and I can take it "as an excuse"

    man, i am not even motivated to write this text here.
    seems to be irrelavant und loss of energy. no difference
     
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  4. nickdanger

    nickdanger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Fly-over Country
    @Mr.Sifter how is your diet? A diet high in processed carbs and sugar has an inflammatory effect on the body and brain, and can cause all kinds of emotional issues that are seemingly unrelated to diet. It has also been anecdotally reported that a low carb/high fat/medium protein diet enhances the cannabis experience. Personally, I have experienced less "munchies" when eating a healthy diet which has led to less cravings for sweet or junk food. A huge part of your immune system resides in your gut/digestive system.
     
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  5. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

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    1,103
    Part of the theory of the DSM is that each element have some objective criteria. It is clear this thread has at least one party who has, by his own admission, some level of functional impairment and distress.

    If we try to get too technical on the matter, we get into the basic theories of mental illness. Everyone I know is weird in some way that is not helping them. That does not make them ill. For mental issues, there are many times the patient is the one who will recognize things are wrong and need help to get through them.

    The key is if pot is making things better or worse. Since, in the instance we're talking about now, so many of the issues are comorbid with pot issues, it makes sense to remove pot and see how things go. To do that with best chance for success, the person needs someone they trust to talk to to make sure they are getting closer to better than closer to worse.
     
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  6. Mr.Sifter

    Mr.Sifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    807
    I ate very clean and worked out every day october-january.

    now i fell into a hole.
    pasta, chips, rice all day.

    no vegetables, no juicing any more

    just fast prepared "food" (thing that makes hunger go away)

    diet is a catatrophe.

    I stopped drinking (10l a week) and vaping cannabis (1,5g a week) on friday.

    I have no plans, I live in the past and I condemn it, no goals,
    hate the mirror.

    dark place again.
     
  7. nickdanger

    nickdanger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Fly-over Country
    If you can clean up your diet, I think your outlook will improve. All body systems are inter-related, and nutrition is key. I know it's not easy, but you might look into the Paleo lifestyle or the Whole30 trend. It might take a couple of weeks to a month, but I would bet you will feel an enormous difference in your view of yourself and the world.
     
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  8. JCat

    JCat Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,890
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    That's bullshit @Mr.Sifter that your psychiatrist, psychologist, ... will cut you off if you use cannabis ... or any other drug (including alcohol); shows that they are very outdated and not keeping their education up with the times. There is a ton of evidence that dealing with addiction in isolation and not dealing with accompanying mental health issues has very, very little success rate; so effectively by refusing to help those that have addiction issues, often which are rooted in or exacerbated by, their mental health issues, they are effectively condemning them to a life of addiction, depression, etc. Wow! Unbelievable for those that claim to be there to help those in need ...

    My psychologist seems to fully support my cannabis use, at least as much as he would support any other medication such as SSRI's (or lithium which I had tried for about a year with less success than cannabis, although it did help me a little get through a tough patch ... negative consequences of its use have now outweighed the benefits it seems so have removed that from my list ...)

    My cannabis usage is currently helping more than ever (and I'm doing better than I've been doing in years) ... my long term goal is to cut back to recreational usage, but if it remains daily and I remain this functional, I can't say I am unhappy with that ... it's much better than I've ever been with nothing, pharmaceuticals, or alcohol.

    All that being said, improving my situation has come about a lot due to the psychotherapy I believe, and cannabis, like lithium, is great for symptom relief, but has not solved anything; I guess when it comes to addiction and mental health issues, it's sort of like for pain management, cannabis can help manage the symptoms but it doesn't solve any underlying problems. Unlike lithium though, the safety profile of cannabis is much higher ... so my desire to stop using it is much less; as well, the negative impacts on my personality from cannabis seem to be much less than that of lithium (lithium maybe keeps me stable, but at the expense of joy in my life it seems, which has a worse effect on those close to me than my cannabis usage ... not easy being around someone that feels zero joy in life ...)

    Anyways ... I think the point of these posts I'm making, is if you are feeling guilty of your cannabis use, and that guilt is what is causing you the anxiety and distress, then perhaps you need to cut yourself a break? If the only issue is the addiction, then perhaps you should put that issue into perspective? If that addiction causes other negatives in your life, then by all means you should seriously look at the pros and cons and make an appropriate decision to stop or continue or modify your cannabis use. If the only negative is the addiction itself, well, maybe that's not so bad in and of itself?

    Take all this with a grain of salt though ... just the ramblings of a medicated basket case and what's working for him right now ... :lol:
     
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  9. Mr.Sifter

    Mr.Sifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    807
    well thats how it is here in the EU.
    Illegal cannabis situation.
    cannabis in treatment is a "no go".

    the therapist (not a psychiatrist) will leave the door open for me but I must not consume.

    my girlfriend does not want me consume either.
    with alcohol, which i enjoy aswell, I can see that people think i am another person. I just dont care and become aggressive and dumb.

    cannabis reveals a positive side in me.
    addiction is not so much a problem.
    Day 3 now and i sleep fine.

    my "mood" (outlook on life) is shitty none the less.

    but I dont want to cry to you any longer
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  10. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,877
    Therapists used to treat people that way in the US and some still do. I stopped combusting years ago because I needed a transplant and that was more important than combusting. But it was clear to me even then (over 20 years ago) that cannabis was the most effective treatment for my depression. I was fortunate in finding a therapist who over time grew to believe in working with whatever was presented instead of setting artificial limits. The only conflict we had, early on, was that I wanted to try antidepressant meds and he didn't believe in "medicating depression". But he wouldn't have ended the therapy because of that. Plus over the years, he grew from a traditional psychodynamic approach to one more tolerant.

    I think that, even though most of the therapists where you live won't work with you while you use, there are probably some who will have a different approach.

    Just curious- why does your girlfriend want you to stop?
     
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  11. Mr.Sifter

    Mr.Sifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    807
    because she wants me to free from substance.
    we had a situation where i was feeling unwell because of my inner though circles.
    i wanted to vape and she told me that i had to decide: her or the weed.
    that was cruel.
    she appologized but i was unable to react in a adult manner.
    hard to describe
     
  12. JCat

    JCat Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,890
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I can't imagine cannabis causing one to be unable to react in an adult manner ... I can (and can relate to), one's mental health causing one to be unable to act in an adult manner ... when one is in enough emotional distress, it's strange what one will do ...

    Do you want to be free from all substances? Or is it your girlfriend that wants you to be free? And what constitutes free? She never wants you to have any cannabis, or alcohol, or tobacco, or any SSRI's or pharmaceuticals? what about coffee? (just curious ... maybe taking it a little far with the coffee!) And if that is the goal why the all or nothing ultimatum approach? Why not setting a goal to work towards while supporting you towards that goal? Abandonment doesn't seem like a good way to help someone achieve their goals ... Seems not productive at all unless the substance abuse was causing you to be abusive towards her ... (again ... have a hard time seeing cannabis being the cause for abuse towards someone ... maybe apparent neglect ... but again ... chicken or egg ... not so sure it would be the cannabis that would be the cause but more an attempt at symptom relief)

    Anyways ... don't want to minimize so perhaps I've already said to much. Relationships are difficult to say the least. Mental health problems make them even more so ... life is tough man ... wish I could help in some more constructive way.
     
    asdf420 likes this.
  13. Alex3oe

    Alex3oe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    102
    Sad but true. Even a law change nearly a year ago didn't change much here. But at least a little, maybe better times are coming.
     
  14. EverythingsHazy

    EverythingsHazy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,052
    I’d say that you’re not addicted to insulin, but if your body doesn’t perform normally without it, you are physically dependent on it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  15. Little Bill

    Little Bill Oldest stoner on FC

    Messages:
    243
    Location:
    a shithole country
    Well I went for over 25,000 days with no cannabis; and I'm not going to let that happen again. :myday:
     
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  16. His_Highness

    His_Highness In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king

    Messages:
    2,058
    I've been using for over 40 years. Most of the time on a daily basis and in the last two decades I typically do 2 sessions per night starting around 8pm. On those rare occasions where I go without, I don't feel any withdrawal symptoms and I don't get nervous in anticipation of not using. If I travel for business by plane I don't use and those trips last around 4 to 5 days. I never get high when at work or working.

    Am I addicted to cannabis? Physically, I would say no. Mentally I would say yes or probably because I will get high each night given the opportunity and most times REALLY look forward to it. I have had days, although not many, where I have been so preoccupied I "forgot" to get high that day.

    If I was asked what my "addicted" drugs of choice are I would say:
    - Coffee: I think I'm way more addicted to coffee than cannabis because coffee causes me physical and mental withdrawal symptoms.
    - Cannabis: After 40 decades of steady, almost daily use I would say I qualify.
    - Exercise: I get grumpy and a little jumpy if I don't get my miles in. I believe the runner's high and a cannabis buzz are kissing cousins.

    I take a statin for cholesterol everyday along with various vitamins but I wouldn't say I'm addicted to them even though I take them daily.
     
  17. Mr.Sifter

    Mr.Sifter Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    807
    that sounds like a healthy way of consuming.
    your job and your family does not suffer.
    all accept and love you for what you do.
    thats way to go.

    cheeers

    p.s. today i practise myself in beeing "Joy"
     
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  18. Dirtrider

    Dirtrider Active Member

    Messages:
    53
    I am familiar with many of the DSM scales and questions. It is great to quantify it in words or with some fixed criteria, but the problem is that the characterization is overly broad making the scales less useful and hence often dismissed. I suppose if you are a hammer everything looks like nail, just like if you are are DSM scale, everything looks like a disorder. In short, this DSM scale is over inclusive in an effort to make everyone look like they are addicted. Maybe it is good for business. Likewise, the other DMS scales I am familiar with make it easy to classify the person as having a disorder. That is part of the reason that so many people today, as compared to the past, are branded with the disorder tag - the criteria is overly broad. When I was younger, these disorders were called differences and were often accepted or celebrated. Now it is disorder that need to me counseled or medicated.
     
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  19. hibeam

    hibeam alpha +

    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Brave New World
    For the past month I have been dosing 23mg/day thc and 5mg/day cbd both as my prescribed daily migraine preventive and now to deal with the recovery pain of a fractured wrist and ankle. I am avoiding all NSAIDS and OPIOIDS. I am able to do a little yoga and eat and sleep okay. Are we asking the right question here?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  20. Rebelistic

    Rebelistic Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    102
    I often have breaks when I travel and find my sleep is usually ok but not always. Insomnia does seem very common among people who don't use cannabis, I remeber I often used to struggle to sleep. Do you think your trouble sleeping is a physical withdrawal symptom caused by cannabis addiction or do you think cannabis helps you sleep so naturally it's harder without?
    For me I feel the latter, I remember having terrible insomnia before I ever used cannabis. These days I sleep soundly.

    You could be right but I think it's quite a mild addiction. Similar to drinking tea. I think a big problem with this kind of discussion is the language. "Addiction" can be quite a broad term and "drugs" is perhaps even wider. Both have been demonised and have associated stigma - Not that I would wish to apply that to anyone else or to judge anyone.
    For me personally (I'm probably unusual) I find the most addictive thing about cannabis is the delivery method (vaping or smoking) rather than the cannabiniods, although they are nice too.
     
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  21. Boden

    Boden Aspie polymath

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    In the shop
    Want to see an addiction. Try taking all (computer/smartphone/TV) screen time away from most people under 40.

    Getting out of the virtual reality of the web and back into the real world full time seems harder for them than giving up opium.

    Speaking of... time to get back to reality.
     
  22. JCat

    JCat Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,890
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Video game addiction was recently added to the DSM ... :lol:
     
  23. OldNewbie

    OldNewbie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,103
    All kinds of things under that category. The extension is one of the ones that has the highest levels of complaint against the committee that wrote the DSM. (For much of the same reasons mentioned here.)
     
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  24. asdf420

    asdf420 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    189
    I got insomnia and reduced appetite for a few days, that was the extent of cannabis withdrawal from daily use.
    It's right under my bed. I think of marijuana a lot, but it's not very hard to avoid. And I can be a rather impulsive/addictive person.. I'm more addicted to computer use.

    (that game show thing... meh... that's just me. was kind of offensive, I edited it out)
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  25. Dirtrider

    Dirtrider Active Member

    Messages:
    53
    +1 to that. I often forgo vaping for first person shooter video games. Some video games are like crack.
     
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