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ABV Cannaoil Brownies Question

Discussion in 'Cooking with Cannabis' started by Cole420, Mar 4, 2012.

  1. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Hi all, my parents are going on vacation so I decided it would be a great opportunity to make some brownies with my leftover ABV. Last time I tried, I overheated the cannaoil and burned the herbs, producing tons of smoke in my house which had to be aired out for a day or so. This time I intend to do it the right way. :lol:

    Just so I do NOT have to air out the house again from a hotbox of burning oil and herbs, I was wondering what temperature should I heat the oil up to in the pan with my ABV? I'll probably use a thermometer, so an approximate temp would be nice to ensure no wasted cannabinoids. How long can I store the brownies before they go bad? I was thinking of making them about 2-5 days earlier than the day I will consume them, and even then there may be some left over. If there are left-overs, how long can I keep those? About the same as regular brownies?

    I weighed it up to around 18g bag included, so it's probably a gram or two less. How many brownies do I need to start feeling stoned? Last time I ate all of them with no effects (because of burning them), but I'd imagine if I did it right this time, I would need much less than all of them. Is this correct? Personal experiences? I've also been on a tolerance break and by the time I eat them it will be about 3 weeks of abstinence, so I don't wanna end up calling 911 because I ate too many brownies like that cop did on the news.. :ko:

    Sorry for the long post, and thanks for reading/replying. I'd sure appreciate the help! Vape on, fellow combustion haters.
     
  2. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    588
    i highly recommend doing the technique that i do seeing as how i usually have to make brownies under very similar circumstances. my last experience was with 19g's of dark brown ABV and about 0.5g's of keif(decarbed) which produced 20 strong brownies.

    i took the 19g's of ABV and ground it up as much as possile, close to powder. then put it in a glass mason jar along with the required amount of oil from the brownie recipe, i usually try to get about 1/2 cup to 2/3 cup recipes. add a pinch of salt and a table spoon of vinegar. this is suppose to help with the leeching process for the actives. keep this jar in a cool dark place for several days and shake throughout each day. do not exceed 7 days as this could risk rancidity of the oil.

    now you have cannaoil without the need to heat. however, to be safe i do a slight heating process to be safe. i place the jar with the top off in a pot of simmering water for about 15 minutes and stirring occasionally. the oil after this process is ready to be used for cooking.

    after making brownies you can store them for about a month in the fridge, any longer and i would recommend freezing them. there is very minimal, unnoticeable, loss in potency while in the fridge.
     
    demonscars likes this.
  3. Brenard420

    Brenard420 Creepin in the shadows!

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    Canada
    How do you seperate the oil and such finely grinded abv? I would imagine it would be very messy.
    I tried to make abv qwiso one time and i grinded it to powder as well. it turned into brown sludge.lol
     
  4. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks for the replies. So you're saying you don't even need heat for the oil to absorb the cannabinoids? I thought heat was the only way you could potentiate the cannabinoids to absorb into the oil because they're fat-soluble? Can anyone shed some light on this? I'd much rather just soak the ABV in oil a few days then actually risk having to air out my house for a day again, that was a horrible experience and my sister and her friends probably got a contact high from all the smoke indoors :lol:
     
  5. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    588
    i don't separate actually. i try to make the ABV so fine that the texture won't be noticed in the end product, except for stems which i accidentally forgot to remove before baking last time :rolleyes: but this way i figured i can avoid losing any potential actives in a straining process. taste-wise, you could tell the brownies were a bit 'different' but definitely still edible.

    @Cole420, you DON'T need heat for the oil to absorb the desired cannabinoids IF the starting product is either ABV or the fresh green herb has been decarboxylated. you described in your situation that your starting product will be ABV which contains delta9-THC that has already been activated after being used in your vaporizer. knowing the science behind cannabis and cannabinoids can really help out with cooking :p

    like i said, this is exactly what i did and also used 0.5g's of decarbed keif to make 20 very strong brownies. i sold one to a freshman at my university and was told that he passed out within an hour of eating it lol whoops. i had to use this method because i didn't want to stink up the house and my parents were going to be out of town for a few days during New Year's. this process will still smell, just because you're handling cannabis, but definitely not nearly as much with the conventional cannabaking methods.

    i understand if you have your reluctance towards this information since it somewhat goes against the normal technique for cooking but im sure someone else can chime in to confirm my method since i first got this idea from a fellow FC member, jeffp.
     
  6. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Gotcha, please excuse my knowledge of the science behind cannacooking, as I am just starting my science course in school now lol. So THC is inactive when it is carboxylated, but when you heat it even under the threshold of releasing THC, this decarboxylates the THC meaning that it can still be fresh green with all of the THC present, and that is what potentiates the cannabinoids to be released in fat-soluble compounds like oil and butter? That makes sense, meaning ABV obviously being already heated, has been decarbed and will not need to be heated any further as that carboxyl group has been removed from the THC and other cannabinoids.

    And I have no reluctance whatsoever, I just didn't know the science behind how heating potentiates the herb. But that makes total sense, and I will definitely try it next week when my 'rents leave the house.

    Has anyone else tried this before? Just curious if anyone else has done the same as Highly and came out with good results.

    Anyways, thanks for explaining that to me and I will let you all know how it goes in about a week and a half.
     
  7. jeffp

    jeffp psychonaut

    This method works and works very well. I once read about some people preparing "firecrackers" using this cold infusion method as a way to increase its potency and I thought that this should work with brownies and the experiment was very successful. It's in fact easier, slightly more effective than simmering in my opinion and less prone to error (maintaining a steady lightly bubbling simmering temperature through the 60 minute process if you did it the old way).

    Grind your ABV to a powder using an electric coffee grinder if you have one. After the four days of leeching, you'll see the powder is almost fully liquified; the oil will be black, syrupy and a little icky.

    The oil I use is canola.

    When you mix this oil into the brownie mix following the brownie recipe, stir the oil into the brownie mix really well. Give it a good few minutes of stirring. This is really important if you want every brownie to be uniform in potency.

    When you bake the brownies don't go higher than 325 even if the recipe calls for 350 even if you have to bake them a few minutes longer. Use the toothpick method to determine when the brownies are ready.

    Most importantly do not drive or plan to drive and understand that it's going to take at least an hour for the effects to hit you. Meaning, start with only one brownie and put the batch away. You do not want to overeat thinking that you need more while you're waiting for the effects to hit you. It could be quite unpleasant and long lasting. If it turns out that one brownie wasn't enough, you'll have plenty left over for next time.
     
  8. Peloton

    Peloton Vapes Hard

    Messages:
    510
    So after leeching, could the oil be added into capsules instead of brownies and consumed? Or is the baking time with brownies part of the absorption process? Because the way I read it, you could make coco oil capsules with no heating if you give it a few days to leech first. Is this reasonable?
     
  9. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

    Messages:
    1,713
    Location:
    Deep in my lungs
    I dont think you would have a good enough oil to capsule ratio to make them worth doing. (i.e. You would have to eat a handful of caps for an effect)

    The 'cold fusion' method works well (as has been stated before) and no seperation is needed. I also like to toss in a bag of nuts along with some creme de menthe chips to help with taste/consistency.
     
  10. Peloton

    Peloton Vapes Hard

    Messages:
    510
    Thanks for the feedback. I get that it works well, and that it's not necessary to seperate. I'll be using this infusion method next time Ive decided.

    But wouldn't consuming "X" amount of oil in capsules give you the same effect as that same X amount of oil in a brownie? If the 325 baking time associated with brownies has no effect on the potency of the oil iself, consuming equal amounts of oil should give you the same effects you'd think.
     
  11. Tuck

    Tuck Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    215
    One problem you may have with coconut oil is, it's a solid at room temperature. So I would think some amount of heat would be necessary.

    For dosage, a good starting point is 1g of ABV. So if you have X g ABV starting weight, you'd want to end up with X brownies/capsules. A 00 capsule holds about 1ml. So you are attempting to get 1g of ABV into 1ml of oil.

    There's a capsule thread here.

    And BadKittySmiles Guide is a step by step capsule guide with pictures.

    ABV Cannaoil Brownies are discussed thoroughly here. JeffP's "leeching method" is found on page 10 of that thread.
     
  12. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Thanks for the links & feedback, but is coconut oil really necessary? Could I use canola, or some other kind? I'm guessing the type of oil doesn't really make a huge difference... correct me if I'm wrong.

    Either way, I'm intrigued with the capsule method, and will probably just do this instead, as brownies typically taste very foul when using ABV. I have some old vitamin caps I will just empty and use.

    So you're saying 1g of ABV will absorb into roughly 1ml of oil.. would that number vary depending on which oil used?
     
  13. AGBeer

    AGBeer Lost in Thought

    Messages:
    1,713
    Location:
    Deep in my lungs
    I would venture to say that if you are making capsules, using coco-oil would be the medium of choice as it will solidify within the capsules and have less chance of leakage. One thing to note beforehand if making the caps - Never (never ever) use the vegetable based ones. The oil (whatever one you use) will eat through those caps and give you some sloppy caps. (Trust me, I know from experience as well) :)
     
  14. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Okay, so the solidifying qualities are what makes coconut the oil of choice for caps. Would there be any types of caps that won't desintigrate with liquid oils?
     
  15. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Better question, if I use a liquid oil like canola, can I just stash the oil and cap it when I need it? In other words, keep my ABV oil in a jar and only open it and put em in capsules when I plan on dosing. Would that be another option?
     
  16. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    588
    with a method like that, you run the risk of a the oil going rancid i think.
     
  17. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Alright, I decided to do the cold extraction method described above by Highly instead of capsules. The ABV is now straining out of oil by means of a coffee filter. I'm planning on following the recipe listed on the box, but I may add one more egg to get that ABV taste out of the brownies.

    Does anyone have any other suggestions on ways to improve the taste of ABV brownies? Last time they we're pretty bad, but then again I did burn the ABV in the oil beforehand which may have made the taste much worse than it should be.
     
  18. Peloton

    Peloton Vapes Hard

    Messages:
    510
    AGBeer has said creme de menthe chips do good things for the taste of ABV. I think powdered sugar or frosting on top would be delicious, but that could just be the fat kid in me talking hehe. Pecans sound primo also
     
  19. SD_haze

    SD_haze MMJ Vaporist

    Messages:
    3,210
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    I've found peanut butter (any nutty flavors), maple syrup, and any kind of chocolate flavor additions make ABV edibles the most palatable.

    Crem de menthe chips sound like they'd be a nice addition too.

    Its almost impossible to mask abv taste, besides using very diluted ABV oil, so you have to find something that will do a good job complimenting it.
     
  20. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    588
    personally i've always just tried to get a dark and rich type of brownie mix and never had much of an issue of taste from my ABV brownie batches. haven't tried the other alternatives above though.
     
  21. momofthegoons

    momofthegoons vapor accessory addict Staff Member

    Messages:
    6,184
    I've used the creme de menthe chips and they are wonderful. Dassant also makes a great dark chocolate brownie mix that has chocolate chunks in it that masks the flavor quite well. If you are leaving your abv in your mixture, I would suggest also adding some nuts to help disguise the "fiber."
     
  22. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    I believe that it was the fact that I had burnt the ABV oil last time that made it so gross, it's cooling down now so I can frost it and I tried a pinch and it tasted muuuuch better than last time. Almost like the oil didn't have ABV in it at all! I'll let you all know how it goes in a bit once I start eating. Just so everyone knows, I used the cold extraction method above and did not heat the oil whatsoever (other than in the oven). I let the ABV soak for a few days then strained all of the plant matter out of the oil by a metal coffee filter.

    I will update on how it went later tonight if I'm not already sunken into my couch and have enough energy to type.
     
  23. Peloton

    Peloton Vapes Hard

    Messages:
    510
    How was it?
     
  24. Cole420

    Cole420 Combustion Hater

    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Canada
    Unfortunately, this method did NOT work for me whatsoever. I will go over what I did once more; so incoming wall o' text.

    Upon departure of my family from the province, I tossed in 17-18g of light browned ABV collected for months into the blender to maximize efficient leaching, and then tossed the blended ABV into a plastic container with probably half a cup of canola oil I beleive. The oil was not accurately measured, it was approximate, and just enough to flow over the ABV. I put the cap on and mixed and shaked and stirred many times each day, making sure the herbs were present in the oil, for around 3-4 days. I then strained all the ABV out of the oil (because our dogs shed... some got into the ABV after months of collecting, it happens with Labs) and let it strain for a couple hours, checking on it once in a while and when the cup I strained the oil into was filled, I poured the oil in that cup into my mixing bowl, then proceeded to continue straining into the empty cup. Once there was almost no oil left to strain, I pushed down on the ABV in the coffee strainer with a spoon and got the majority of oil out of the wet ABV. I then tossed the ABV outside, as I didn't want it stinking up anywheres in the house. I followed the recipe and added some water, one egg, and one extra egg to improve the taste. In goes the brownie mix. Using a beater, I mixed up the ingredients and it made a nice looking brownie mix, like nothing out of the ordinary was added. I then dumped this into a medium sized square glass pan. At this point the oven was already pre-heated to 315F, I chose this because apparently THC starts being released at 316F and even moreso at higher temps, so I was just playing it safe. I let them cook for about 45 mins, stuck a toothpick in and no batter was on the toothpick, so it was ready. I then let it cool and added the frosting.

    Anyways, there was no odd taste, no hints of anything out of the ordinary like my last batch and I ended up eating half the brownies the first day, then ate the second half the next day, all without any effects whatsoever. I was quite dissapointed, and next time I will be making hash or hash oil instead. I'm 0 for 2 in the edibles department with ABV, and I don't wanna waste another big collection of leftover cannabinoids again.

    If anyone sees anything I did wrong in the above, please tell me, because it may change my mind about making hash instead if I was the one who fucked up. Either way I'm doubting this cold extraction thing really works at all. Higher said he did actually heat it at one point, which leads me to think that it must be heated somewhat to extract THC and other cannabinoids into the oil.
     
  25. HighlyEducatedScholar

    HighlyEducatedScholar Student of Vapor

    Messages:
    588
    i'm sorry to hear that this did not work for you but there are a few things that may have caused complications with your recipe.

    one. i would not have strained out the ABV after the leeching process. it is just too difficult and not work the time because there is a great chance of lost oil. its very hard to strain out all the oil at that point because the ABV has essentially emulsified.

    two. baking at 315degrees F is too close to comfort for me when it comes to medibles. i usually stick closer to the 275-300degrees F. i don't know how well you know your oven but it may run too hot or too cold so if it runs even 10-20 degrees too hot then you're cooking your cannabinoids at upwards of 335degrees F (destroying the desired psychoactives) for 45 minutes.

    three. the potency of your brownies is highly dependent on the darkness of your ABV. if you're ABV is around the chocolate to dark chocolate color then you're going to need more of it as opposed to ABV that is a yellowish-brown.

    your problem most likely one or more of these issues because the leeching process should have worked and to me is more reliable to simmering it in a pan due to overcooking. on the chemical level, it's kinda like pouring a bunch of salt into water and shaking it for several days which should result in binding. again i'm sympathetic for this not working for you cause i've been in the same boat and its very disappointing when the medibles don't turn out the way you want.
     

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