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18650 Battery Safety

Discussion in 'Vapor Related Equipment' started by TheDudeNextDoor, Jun 13, 2015.

  1. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

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    Not that i want to be anywhere near exploding 18650 but I am having more trust issues with butane ,torches and lighters(which explode far more often),than those batteries,which i think have the same chemistry as laptops and cellphone which people put right to their faces. I've had once a crappy torch bursted in flames right in my hand,while i was considering using it with a lotus just next to my face... After inspection i saw that the tubing that leads the gas from tank to the burning head had unplugged during operation at once or with time ,that i could not tell.. Also inhaling butane is not a nice thing,i doubt that many stoners go otside while they fill their torches.. Also you can add to that the flame it self is dangerous enough and if you are stupid enough,careless and stoned you can burn yourself or something around you and cause fire way more easier than a battery :).
    Moral of the story is ,dont go cheap with items which safety of operation is paramount.
     
    KeroZen likes this.
  2. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Modnote: This is an informative cross-post from the Nomad thread
    No, I'm saying these battery chemistries (variants of Lithium-Ion) are unsafe by nature. You should always be careful during handling, use, storage and charge.

    That's the price to pay if we want power and it's the best available today. Next technology might be better, it's supposedly around the corner... but it's been quite some years already and we're still waiting, not unlike nuclear fusion...

    Note that it will likely be a revolution and the stakes are very high (notably electric cars becoming mainstream, so there's a lot of money at play, both to be made and to be lost, by oil companies and producing countries, but let's not get political here!)

    Mass-produced vapes using 18650's should be fine. Their contacts are precision machined by robots and are very smooth. They also have to get through the whole certification process to be able to enter the US and EU markets. So for instance your Tubo being based on the joyetech evic VTC mini, or other Chinese-made vapes like the X-Max etc should be ok (note that I always insert the positive side first in my evic and other mods such that it's the negative side that grinds on the contact though)

    It also greatly depends on how the contact is designed. If it's a door or something you screw it's less problematic than something that slides and grinds.

    For your other vapes: I always have the negative terminal facing up in my Milaana. Again grinding on the negative terminal is completely safe, it's a solid flat piece of stainless steel, it's the other side that is delicate. In the MVT the door slightly grinds on the positive, so I took the habit of pushing the cell down with the tip of one finger while sliding the door. The pressure is small and the contact is round but better be safe than sorry (I told Dave to consider reversing the cell polarity, but as is you can't just insert it backwards as the MVT touch switch is polarity sensitive)

    Just watch your cell wraps closely and if they get damaged at the top (anywhere else is harmless) bring them to a vape shop to get them rewrapped (or order a wrap kit from the place you got your cells from, it's easy to do)


    Yes that's a possibility, but why not eliminate the risk altogether by inserting the cell the other way round?

    In its current form the cell can go both ways. My remark about the beefy ground is just the normal practice as everything converges to that part, but here the circuit is super trivial and only a single path flows through. I can't comment on your remark about having the switch high side or low side, maybe it makes a difference in practice, I don't know. With MOSFETs it makes a clear difference but in a mechanical-mod configuration like this I'm unsure.


    It's simple, look at this picture:

    [​IMG]


    The entire cell shell (the can) is negative, meaning the bottom, the sides and up to that shiny rounded lip (the upper-most that is, including the "rings" below) Then the brown part is insulation and the raised center post is the positive terminal.

    When the cell is wrapped it also has an (usually white but can be black) extra insulation ring above the brown part. This ring can get dislodged when the wrap is damaged, as it's just floating and held "sandwiched" by the wrap.

    All you have to do to short the cell is connect the lip to the center post, and they are a few mm apart in a straight line. A key could be enough, like in your pocket as you said (hence the need to always carry them in the provided plastic case. If you don't have those, no excuse they are worth cents only on aliexpress!)

    Indeed when you short the cell it heats first and does not necessarily enter the thermal runaway mode. When it gets past 120°C or something it will start venting. Normally only hot gas and nasty boiling chemicals (awful smell) and in the worst case it can even catch fire (less likely with IMR/INR than the so called "Li-Po" soft pouch ones as found in cell phones and remote control stuff)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2017
  3. little maggie

    little maggie Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if this is a repeat but what is the safest way to dispose of a battery and how do I know when to dispose of one? They slow down and don't keep charges well as they age but I don't know whether that is grounds for disposal or whether their safety is impacted as their charge decreases.
     
  4. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    You can in theory use them until they don't hold much charge anymore (ex: you remove them from the charger, use them, and 5 minutes after they are already discharged)

    BUT with aging, usually the internal resistance rises too, which in turn will make the cell heat under load. If you notice that your cell gets really hot after use (not just the usual warm due to the heater proximity) then it might be a sign you should dispose it (or reserve it for another less demanding application, like a small light torch for instance, if you happen to have a modern one that takes Li-Ions, or a power bank etc.)

    For disposal, follow your local recycling recommendations. It's best to discharge them first, but not mandatory. Put some electrical tape (or that brown tape) around the positive terminal to prevent any short when you put it in the container. Where I live, I got containers where I can put used light bulbs and batteries, usually near the entrance of shops that sell them (even if they don't sell Li-Ions per se, if they sell other batteries and/or fluorescent bulbs etc. they got that container)

    You might find people recommending the salt water bucket technique online, but it takes ages and it stinks... So I would say: let the recycler do the dirty job, they got the right equipment and procedures.

    In all cases they should not go with your regular garbage into landfills.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  5. Pavelhonner

    Pavelhonner Member

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  6. Abysmal Vapor

    Abysmal Vapor Shaman of The Pyramid of Orlin'Malah

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    I dont know bout these but i buy my batteries from https://www.dcpower.eu/ cause they are local,but also they ship within EU and have nice prices. IME it is best that you look for a local store,because if something happens you can actually go there and complain if you got a bad product, opposed to whining on forums and exchanging e-mails with their support :).
    If you already have bought these i think that removing the foil can tell you if you got a rewrap or the real deal,but that works only if you got spare shrinkwrap,cause using naked batteries is not a good idea . Also checking if the specs correspond to the advertised with some measuring device .
     
  7. Pavelhonner

    Pavelhonner Member

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    Have excellent experience with Amazon at these things too - e.g. no problems with refunding for badly tagged items (charging adapter and sweatshirt so far). Once they even did not want me to send the item back.
     
  8. tashalachut

    tashalachut New Member

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    Just my opinion, but no battery is "safe" unless you are using it properly. I vape, and follow all safety protocols with how to handle batteries. You just need to use your brain and not try and modify vapes to take AA batteries (yes this happened to someone) or leave batteries out of cases when outside.
     
    KeroZen likes this.
  9. Pavelhonner

    Pavelhonner Member

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  10. tashalachut

    tashalachut New Member

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  11. ClearBlueLou

    ClearBlueLou unbearably light in the being....

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    WRONG THREAD!!!
    so sorry...
     
  12. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    SSVUN~YAH and Hippie Dickie like this.
  13. Hippie Dickie

    Hippie Dickie The Herbal Cube Manufacturer

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    so, TLDR: it's the chemistry.

    i don't think LiFePO4 does this dendrites thing ... or maybe it takes the nano-tech electrodes of A123Systems to be safer.

    what do you think @KeroZen?
     
    SSVUN~YAH likes this.
  14. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Could be, but many Li-Ion pouch (Li-Po) makers also claim they are using nano-stuff, including graphene etc, yet they still make nice fireworks. I think it's more the chemistry and LiFePO4 is inherently safer.
     
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