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18650 Battery Safety

Discussion in 'Vapor Related Equipment' started by TheDudeNextDoor, Jun 13, 2015.

  1. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

    Messages:
    3,720
    Right, if it was just the heat I think it would be more common, cause, ya know, people are idiots. :)

    @KeroZen , whadda ya think? The 18650 is new to me, and I wouldn't intentionally leave it in the car to avoid ruining it, but how likely is a fire with good batteries left in heat?
     
  2. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    LOL. Truth.
     
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  3. dUbmethod20

    dUbmethod20 Keepin it foggy

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    Location:
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    It's dumb crap like that that give lawmakers ground to say these are dangerous
     
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  4. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    1,245
    Indeed, which is another reason why awareness is important. People treat these things like AAs, and they are not.
     
  5. cybrguy

    cybrguy Patience Rewards

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    Right, and I didn't really even know how different until reading in here, so it is good to talk about it.
     
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  6. dUbmethod20

    dUbmethod20 Keepin it foggy

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    Location:
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    Hey I'm having trouble getting my battery to fire properly in my fuhattan. It started last night. I've cleaned my contacts, adjusted the copper pin and the atty's connector, tightened down all my contacts but I still haftu press the button kinda hard to fire. Ideas?

    EDIT: I think I got it. After some more fiddling I think I had the plastic sleeve that holds the copper contact interrupting the connection by just a hair

    ADDITIONAL EDIT: well, it's working better but I'm still getting some misfires. Anyone?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2015
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  7. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    607
    I stand corrected ... Never should talk in absolutes :) thanks for the correction. I am somewhat new to the battery world. Better to say 18650's where made popular and common place due to there use in "old school" laptops lol. won't find any in a tablet lol. Key take-away is they fell into the hands of the e-cig mod guys many of which ran them unregulated both in the unit as well as sometimes charging. I talked with a friend that test batteries for a living and he said over temp, over charge and over discharge (short) will be your most likely failure modes. My guess with these is they where fully charged, unregulated, mods running sub ohm coils with no tank that had there button depressed when they where stowed away. This would lead to a near short through the sub-ohm coil (low the resistance and high wattage makes you cool in the e-cig world) as the primary failure mode as with the added stress of a hot car as a escalating effect. At least that is what I found out doing some limited internet investigation and making some hypothesis myself so take it with a grain.

    None the less it is important for manufactures using these batteries to educate and take every precaution to keep there customers safe as is the first and foremost even before quality. Safety can cost a life, quality can only make for an unhappy customer... the fist cant be fixed, the second can. A good plan for would be to buy batteries in lots and lot test them to help prevent any quality escapes. I think a few test would be a good insurance policy for anyone retailing 18650s.
     
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  8. GetLeft

    GetLeft Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    I'm at the beach and have inadvertently left two of my three oem 18650s in the car. It's gotten plenty hot in there. I'll pull them out now and give them a look. Should I be concerned (like enough not to use them) if there is no visible damage or leaking?

    Thanks for the thread.
     
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  9. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    4,294
    I would think they will be OK since when they ship 'em they're in a steel shipping container or railroad car or tractor trailer. All of which get pretty frickin hot(like an oven)while sitting in the sun.
     
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  10. GetLeft

    GetLeft Well-Known Member

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    803
    Location:
    Convection City
    Thanks man. I got in the hot car yesterday afternoon and remembered that the bats were in there. It was close to 90 outside so inside it was like an oven. Just pulled them inside and they appear to be fine. One was stashed under the seat in the foam and the box it was delivered in so I'm thinking it avoided the brunt of the heat. The other was in the compartment between the seats.
     
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  11. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    1,245
    The above examples are extreme, and it's very likely that these mods autofired by shifting in the vehicle when the door closed, etc., and that is what caused the venting rather than the interior heat. From what I can tell with my research, the ambient temp would have to reach 340 degrees for a legit protected 18650 to begin venting. However, cheaply made or faulty batteries COULD (emphasis on "could") vent well before then.

    The lesson to take from this is to be conscious of the potential dangers (emphasis on potential) and use caution and common sense. These batteries are actually really safe as long as they are quality batteries used and handled properly. It's when one or more of those things (quality, use, handling) is overlooked or ignored when things might get dangerous. Know what you are using and how you are using it, and you will be fine.

    I never leave my mods in my parked vehicle as a precaution (it's also just not good on battery life). With that said, I have forgotten a couple times as well and never had a problem.
     
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  12. RastaBuddhaTao

    RastaBuddhaTao Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    607
    As @TheDudeNextDoor pointed out it is device dependent. I recently discovered in a device that I am working on that two pins can touch if bent or bridged that can cause an open circuit condition. So for a test I shorted the two pins without having fuses. The heater went Open circuit and went red hot (normal use max temp is only a slight glow ~650 F) so probably ~1400 F. Eventually the spring contacts turned red hot and and pulled back from the batteries disconnecting them.

    So, in safety failure modes analysis any failure that can cause harm should have three fail safes. On this unit, the pins will be shrink wrapped to prevent the short, thermally resettable fuses will be in line, and there will be a master power switch. If all those fail the contacts retract due the excessive heat and open the circuit. This coupled with high quality batteries and good battery care should make for a safe device. Even with this in place I will pull the batteries if I leave it in the car as it's just good practice. Be safe all!
     
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  13. Joel W.

    Joel W. Deplorable Basement Dweller Accessory Maker

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    1,778
    I worry more about the cheap plastic cases getting soft from the oven like car temps in devices like my ipv4 and then causing a short inside more than the batteries failing from just heat alone.

    I was thinking If someone uses button top batteries instead of the recommended flat top battery like the some manufacturer suggests (yes, they will fit) , there would be more spring pressure pushing against that soft plastic case perhaps causing more movement of hot plastic and maybe preventing the glowing springs from opening the circuit as designed? Just a thought

    Cool thread! I now bring a cooler with an ice pack for hot days. Keeps the meds, batteries, device and my pop cool.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2015
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  14. Philreal187

    Philreal187 Well-Known Member

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    687
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I wanted to get some insight and opinions on what would be the fastest 18650 battery charger?
    I have a set of haze standard and xl batteries as well as 4 zion batteries on the way. I own the haze charger but was looking for something universal, larger, and faster if possible.

    Sorry if this is the wrong thread but I guess safety is also a concern for the charger as well. It would want to have some kind of shut off so it doesn't ruin the batteries.

    Thanks for any help
     
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  15. Bongologist

    Bongologist JoJo Woodworks Accessory Maker

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    Location:
    Mars Hotel
    From my understanding @Philreal187, which is limited ;), it is better to charge these types of batteries slower and have more batteries on hand then charging faster, which decreases overall lifespan.

    I have a nitecore charger, but it's not fast at all. I have the older dual style, but will probably get the digital four bay when the Zion gets here. Currently it's mostly for my Air, but I do like the idea of having eight batteries or so in rotation and don't mind charging over night, slowly, with that many ready to go.
     
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  16. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    1,245
    I have the Efest Luc V4 and love it. I generally charge at @3.6v, and it takes about 3-4 hours to fully charge. But with 4 bays, I keep a constant rotation easily enough. It also came with a car charger cable as well, which is pretty sweet.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. hackslasher

    hackslasher Well-Known Member

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    213
    Location:
    Not where, but when
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
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  18. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    I got a sticky. Dude feels proud. Immortalized and abiding.
     
  19. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    Some superb foundational information about 18650 battery usage and safety on this link. Anyone new to 18650 cells should read this.
     
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  20. steama

    steama Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate this thread because all I had was the basic consumer level awareness and knowledge. Sure, everyone has heard about the lithium cell/fire risk, but holy hell, this thread really illustrates the importance of keep one's head out of the ass when using these powerful batteries. Because of the info posted here I am ratcheting up my safety with these cells.

    Thanks @TheDudeNextDoor
     
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  21. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

    Messages:
    1,245
    You're welcome! Market 18650 batts are incredibly reliable and very safe if used and handled correctly. But they can also be dangerous is misused or mishandled. Knowledge is key. Glad I could help! We combustion fuckers have to watch out for each other. :)

    One major key: Never carry loose batteries in your pocket or anywhere else. Battery sleeves or cases are a must for carrying back-up batts.
     
  22. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    1,245
    @Robob , Efest is reputable enough brand (beware of counterfeits), but at that price, you'd be much better off going with the Samsung 25Rs from here -- plus they include free cases and wraps when you buy pairs/sets. Very reliable vendor and often cheaper than anywhere else. This place has a superb reputation with vapers.

    If you want something that with a bit more power storage, the LG HG2s would be my suggestion for the next step up. Picking up some of these today for myself as a matter of fact.
     
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  23. grokit

    grokit well-worn member

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    10,874
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  24. KeroZen

    KeroZen Chronic vapaholic

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    Location:
    On Air
    @TheDudeNextDoor : EFest is a repacker though, it's always better to get cells directly from the real manufacturer (LG, Samsung, Sony) if you can (there are a few reliable sources online, well known around ecig forums)

    Some people claimed that repacked cells always are B-grades that didn't meet the manufacturers specifications. If you are not careful you can end up buying a lower quality cell at a higher price than the brand one.

    EDIT: didn't prevent me from getting the Vappower's though, and they perform very well (repacked LG cells)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
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  25. TheDudeNextDoor

    TheDudeNextDoor Abiding

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    Did not realize that about Efest. Good to know.
     
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