Bring Olympics back to Greece

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Does anyone think this is NOT a great idea?

To Avoid Another Rio, Make Greece the Olympics’ Permanent Home
by Paul Glastris
July 3, 2016 8:40 PM
Political Animal Blog
Athens.jpg

In 2009, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) picked Rio de Janeiro as the site of the 2016 summer Olympics. “There was absolutely no flaw in the bid,” the IOC’s president, Jacques Rogge, said of Brazil’s proposal.

The choice, however, has turned out to be anything but flawless. Brazil is suffering its worst recession in decades, complicated by a corruption-driven political crisis. As a result, it lacks the funds to finish some of the Olympic venues. Security forces are so strapped for money they can’t even gas up their vehicles, and crime rates have soared. On Thursday, mutilated human body parts washed up on Copacabana beach in front of the Olympic Beach Volleyball Arena. On Friday, armed robbers stole a German TV crew’s transmission equipment.

Similar fears about impending disaster were voiced in the months leading up to the 2004 Olympics in Athens. But to the world’s surprise, those games turned out to be an extraordinary success. The difference is that in 2004 Greek officials were insisting, to an incredulous world, that everything would be fine, whereas Brazilian officials are openly panicking. The state government in Rio last month declared a “state of public calamity” over its ability to finance the games and related services.

The IOC fancies itself not just the trustee of the modern Olympics but as a player in global governance. Its power derives from its ability to choose which countries will get to host the games—a prize that nations covet and compete for almost as hard as they do the games themselves. The IOC wields that power to ends it deems worthy. It bestowed the 2008 summer games on Beijing to incentivize China’s peaceful integration into the world community. The 1998 games went to Seoul to encourage an emerging civilian government. Brazil won in large part because no South American country had ever hosted before.

The problem is that hosting the Olympic games in a different city every year is unnecessary and, as a matter of basic management, moronic. For one thing, it’s incredibly expensive. A host city must build billions of dollars worth of infrastructure to accommodate the games, much of which later sits around unused or gets torn down. Part the reason for Greece’s debt crisis—and the continuing Depression-level economic hardships Greece is suffering under the jackboot of its European lenders, especially Germany–is the billions it borrowed to host the 2004 Olympics. Greece’s dilemma was not lost on the UK voters who supported Brexit.

Shifting the games every four years is also a colossal waste of human capital, as Christina Larson noted in the Washington Monthly back in 2004:

With every change of venue, millions of staff-hours of know-how are lost. That’s not how most other major sporting events are organized. Professional golf tournaments return to the same courses year after year, allowing the staffs there to learn from their mistakes. Same with tennis: The groundskeepers at Wimbledon have had decades to practice pulling out the rain tarps and emptying out the parking lots. Yet the Olympics tries to reinvent the wheel every time, fielding a new team of planners, contractors, accountants, technicians, security personnel, and volunteers every four years, and expecting them to execute myriad complex logistical tasks perfectly the first time out. As Atlanta’s Olympic finance chief Pat Glisson explained to CFO magazine, her job was to “create a Fortune 500 company from scratch, then take it apart at the end.”

As Larson observed, the ancient Greeks had better sense than to move the Olympics around from city to city:

For over a thousand years, the games took place in the same wooded sanctuary of Olympia, on the Peloponnesian peninsula. This set-up seemed to work fine. The extant classical texts contain no complaints of faulty Olympic crowd control, misplaced victory wreaths, or insufficient supplies of lamb kabobs.

In her article, Larson argued for going back to the original idea: pick a permanent place to host the Olympics. Greece, she said, was the obvious choice. (The first modern Olympics, in 1896, were in fact held in Athens, but in 1900, the founder of the modern games, Pierre de Coubertin, moved them in his native Paris, inaugurating the tradition of travelling games.)

Had the IOC taken up Larson’s idea, the world wouldn’t be biting its nails about Rio. Moreover, Greece might not be in such a horrible economic position (it had already built all the necessary and expensive infrastructure and its hotels would be now be full). Things are so bad in Greece that the government had to stop contributing to the training of its own Olympic athletes.

At the Aspen-Atlantic Ideas Festival last week, a questioner was thinking along the same lines as Larson when she floated the idea past IMF chief Christine Lagarde of making Greece the permanent home of the summer Olympics. Lagarde deemed that a fine idea.

Interestingly, the IMF under Lagarde is the one international lender to Greece that has made the case that the country cannot possibly repay all its long-term debts and that those debts need to be restructured and Greece put back on the road to growth (a position the Obama administration has strongly supported behind the scenes). Hopefully, she’ll add to her list of remedies making Greece the permanent home of the Olympics.
 

Maitri

Deadhead, Low-Temp Dabber, Mahayana Buddhist
Yeah, me. I would far prefer we humans focus ALL our olympic energy toward ending all unnecessary suffering.

The problem is that hosting the Olympic games in a different city every year is unnecessary

Heh, the olympics themselves are unnecessary so where do we draw the line between investing in this unnecessary activity and not that one?
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I don't know what you have against the Olympics, but they aren't going anywhere. They have been going on pretty much since the beginning of recorded history and I'm quite certain they will continue to do so. The contest of human against human is highly interesting and for many a principle part of their daily lives, and the ability to include national pride along with the basic team affiliation that the majority of the human race indulges in makes for great entertainment as well.

Personally I am not very interested in professional sports and their $$ driven nature, but I LOVE amateur sports, and especially the Olympics. I have looked with disdain at the increase in eligibility of professional athletes in the Olympics for myriad reasons but I continue to watch both the Winter AND Summer Olympics whenever they take place.

The biggest PROBLEM with the Olympics is the same problem that exists in the world cup and soccer in general (and other professional sports), and that is the corruption and politics involved in choosing the hosting nations due to the $$ (and prestige) that a hosting nation can make directly and indirectly from having the games. Choosing a permanent location for the games would eliminate this terrible aspect to what should be nothing but a contest of human skills.

Given that the Olympics started in Greece, and spent it's first 1000 years there, I think there is logic in bringing them back there. Add the fact that they are having such trouble with their economy and have shown that they can still do a great job hosting them, I think this idea is a no brainer. I think helping them improve their economy with something that benefits us all (except maybe you, Maitri ;) ) rather than just giving them money as a short term fix makes a lot of sense.

Obviously making Greece the permanent host of the summer games is not all the help that Greece needs, but it would sure go a long way in helping without it being the "gift" that many don't care to give...
 

Maitri

Deadhead, Low-Temp Dabber, Mahayana Buddhist
I don't know what you have against the Olympics

I love the olympics. What I find troublesome is the amount of resources we devote to these kinds of pursuits when there is so much unnecessary suffering and agony in the world.

but they aren't going anywhere. They have been going on pretty much since the beginning of recorded history

Heh, sure - but so have countless other things that you likely do not support, like slavery and rape, for example. So that argument might be a little problematic...

and I'm quite certain they will continue to do so. The contest of human against human is highly interesting and for many a principle part of their daily lives,

In the absence of daily horrific unnecessary suffering, I would agree. However, given the amount of unnecessary suffering and agony that occurs on a daily basis, finding interest in activities like this seem breathtakingly tone deaf to the suffering of others. Furthermore, for one to find the olympics highly interesting is a form of privilege and self-absorption that leaves me feeling uncomfortable when I go there. Please note: that is a commentary on how I relate with myself, NOT a judgment about you or anyone else.

and the ability to include national pride along with the basic team affiliation that the majority of the human race indulges in makes for great entertainment as well.

National (or really any) pride seems to make things worse. National pride cultivates an us versus them attitude that closes hearts - not to mention open palms of generosity. It certainly need not be that way, but it far too often is, as evidenced by what we all too commonly see in any dogmatic fandom - whether sports, politics, or even vapes. Heh, take a look at the Mighty versus Crafty argument - or better yet, the most recent page or two of FC's presidential politics thread... ;)

Given that the Olympics started in Greece, and spent it's first 1000 years there, I think there is logic in bringing them back there. Add the fact that they are having such trouble with their economy and have shown that they can still do a great job hosting them, I think this idea is a no brainer. I think helping them improve their economy with something that benefits us all (except maybe you, Maitri ;) ) rather than just giving them money as a short term fix makes a lot of sense.

Heh, yeah - me 'n the little girl who is repeatedly raped by her father as her mother watches in utter horror.

What do you say to all those people whose suffering is thoroughly unnecessary? Bummer? Sucks for you? I am sorry? I would love to help but gymnastics is about to begin? What could we possibly say that would not be tone deaf and self-absorbed?
 
Maitri,

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I wouldn't dream of discounting the horror in the world. It disturbs me greatly every day.

However, if you believe that all the money spent on Olympic sports would somehow make its way to the poor and abused in the world if the Olympics were eliminated, you need to study mankind a little closer... :(

I am all for doing whatever is possible about the issues you raise, but eliminating the Olympics won't help a whit.
 

Maitri

Deadhead, Low-Temp Dabber, Mahayana Buddhist
I wouldn't dream of discounting the horror in the world. It disturbs me greatly every day.

No doubt, my friend!

However, if you believe that all the money spent on Olympic sports would somehow make its way to the poor and abused in the world if the Olympics were eliminated, you need to study mankind a little closer... :(

Agreed.

I am all for doing whatever is possible about the issues you raise, but eliminating the Olympics won't help a whit.

Again, no doubt and I agree. :)

The olympics (in my opinion) are a symptom of a bigger problem. Eliminating a symptom does little to nothing to remedy its underlying root cause. However, like so many other cases, untreated symptoms (self-absorption in this case) do exacerbate the root cause.

EDIT:

I think it is a great idea to move the Olympics permanently to Greece.

I also can't see how human suffering somehow negates having the Olympics as something we shouldn't do. In fact both solutions can work together.

:tup:

Okay, great. What do you say to the little girl who asks you why you support entertainment events over her basic human rights?
 
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Farid

Well-Known Member
Greece, Russia, hell even North Korea, is fine, just as long as they stay away from Boston.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
My city was bidding for the Olympics recently and I had very mixed feelings about it. On one hand I would love to see some Olympic events and the only way that would be likely would be if it were held here. But the inconvenience that would come along with the security and crowds would virtually paralyze the area for normal non Olympic things, and I just don't think it would be worth it.

I do love Greece, though, and I can't think of a more meaningful place to go for Olympic games. It would be tempting.
 
cybrguy,

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
It seems like every country that decides to host the Olympics always has a difficult time paying for it. Brazil has a lot of poverty and health issues right now. To me, just my opinion they could be helping the citizens of Brazil more instead of paying to host the Olympics. What about the filth in the waters where our swimmers will be swimming in? All the pollution.

Security for the Olympics this year will be a at full time high because of all the violence due to terrorist attacks.

To me it's a way for a country to represent themselves to the rest of the world. Show off how wonderful your country is. Maybe this will put a spotlight on Brazil's most vulnerable people. Those that are normally forgotten about.

Unfortunately @cybrguy is right the country probably wouldn't be spending the money on its citizens which is too bad. The country is no better than its leaders.

Let Greece get stuck with the bills for the Olympics every time we have them. They can reuse the venues from year to year. Now that's recycling.

Although Greece may have to claim bankruptcy.
 
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CarolKing,

Petrolhead

Well-Known Member
I think we can't pay the bill for all this fiesta. Still we pay the fat wrong choices of 2004. Nobody in jail so far. Yes we are peaceful but witout euros. Better without olympics and full of working hospitals for our health.
 

gaseous_clay

Well-Known Member
I think it would be a great idea to move the Olympics back to Greece on a permanent basis.

Not gonna happen though. There is way too much money in building all these facilities that are needed. There are far too many opportunities for people who make millions doing this, while the taxpayers of these countries fund it all.

Greed wins every time.
 
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banana_republic

Well-Known Member
My city was bidding for the Olympics recently and I had very mixed feelings about it. On one hand I would love to see some Olympic events and the only way that would be likely would be if it were held here. But the inconvenience that would come along with the security and crowds (...).

Well, let me chime in. I went through it already, mixed feelings when my country and town was elected for either the latest soccer world cup edition and the next olympics. The point here, is that our countries should be absolutely different. Maybe you don't see people sleeping at the streets everyday. Maybe you don't have to do with huge inequality, where lots are begging on the streets for a coin to eat a bread, maybe, meanwhile some others have huge fortunes to even appear on Forbe's mag lists. Maybe, you don't have to deal with major corruption schemes on every government. Maybe you don't face daily violence and crime, basically coming from all this inequality. Maybe you don't see your basic infrastructure systems collapsed. Just as an example, the recently built bike lane which was claimed as one of the legacy items for the population collapsed in less than 3 months from its opening....

If you were born and raised into a third world country, maybe you would agree now, as i do, that the Olympics, was just some other plan to steal lots of money from an already so poor population, steal rights and create some wealthy areas where there were poor slums little time ago (and also earn lots of money from speculating land and home values over these areas). I believe corporations like FIFA, the International Olympics comitee and whatsoever are big mafias and they are into huge profits. Those events have nothing to do with sportsmanship, union of people and etc....

It seems like every country that decides to host the Olympics always has a difficult time paying for it. Brazil has a lot of poverty and health issues right now. To me, just my opinion they could be helping the citizens of Brazil more instead of paying to host the Olympics. What about the filth in the waters where our swimmers will be swimming in? All the pollution.

Security for the Olympics this year will be a at full time high because of all the violence due to terrorist attacks.

To me it's a way for a country to represent themselves to the rest of the world. Show off how wonderful your country is. Maybe this will put a spotlight on Brazil's most vulnerable people. Those that are normally forgotten about.

Unfortunately @cybrguy is right the country probably wouldn't be spending the money on its citizens which is too bad. The country is no better than its leaders.

Let Greece get stuck with the bills for the Olympics every time we have them. They can reuse the venues from year to year. Now that's recycling.

Although Greece may have to claim bankruptcy.

Literally "paying for it" is what's going on in Rio right now. The Rio state government claimed bankruptcy and is not able to pay its workers (for some months they have not payed the salaries, specially for retired people), and they're now asking for huge money loans to pay the government employees? NO! To pay for the olympics huge stadiums and infrastructure that are still not ready. I agree with your point, a lot of poverty, health, education, basic infrastructure..... Not to mention pulllution, which basically just needs political action to be solved. As far as I'm concerned Guanabara bay has been through "cleaning programs" since the 80'sr, when japanese government sent millions of dollars to have sewage sources treated and end up throwing garbage (even industrial and health/hospitals disposals) directly into it. The money usually goes to some politician pockets or foreign bank accounts....

Personally, I don't believe terrorists acts will happen during the Olympics.

To be honest, I do suggest anyone who ever have a chance to choose if one of those events (like world cup or the olympics) come to your country or town, REFUSE IT! Protest, say no, reject the idea as strong as you can. Get people involved on knowing that the stupid propaganda on how wonderful it would be to have your town on the spotlight of the world, and that it will bring a huge legacy to your people and bla bla bla... plain bullshit!


It looks to me just another chapter of the so sad never ending history: People who lived in a peaceful paradise up to the 1500, then some european bastards decided to invade our land, steal everything they found valuable, loot, murder and profir from it. And they're still not satisfied, willing to steal some more.....

Cheers!
 

ginolicious

Well-Known Member
Your strong objection is noted. Can you tell us why? Your opinion is, of course, just as valued as anyone elses, but I would like to know why you hold it.

Or is this just a Cartmany kind of thing (respect my authority)... :)

It's nice to have it held in different counties. Everyone should be given a chance to hold them if they can afford it.

It spices it up. Different venues. Different courses. Changes it up and it's no so repetitive.

I'm a firm believer in equality and only allowing Greece to hold it would not be equality for the world. Some countries do have great venues and infrastructure to offer the Olympics.
 
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farscaper

Well-Known Member
Greece can keep them for all I care as long as I get free gyros for life by voting so!

The cost associated with the olympics are entirely shouldered by the people that are taxed to make it so. I'd rather not be fucking taxed just because someone wants to spend 40 billion dollars on fucking sports....

You wanna see a sport.... throw suitcase of money in a pit of knife laden bankers.

Winner gets the case of money.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
It's nice to have it held in different counties. Everyone should be given a chance to hold them if they can afford it.

It spices it up. Different venues. Different courses. Changes it up and it's no so repetitive.

I'm a firm believer in equality and only allowing Greece to hold it would not be equality for the world. Some countries do have great venues and infrastructure to offer the Olympics.
If it were really done equitably with everyone having the same chance, no corruption or politics or undue economic pressure I would be more comfortable with the current methods of choosing host cities. But that is NOT what we have. And it is also clear that the promises made by the hosting countries, to the athletes and to the citizenry of the hosting country, are rarely kept.

I think it is much more important for the games to be well managed, safe (for the athletes AND the public) and honestly judged than the "freedom" promised by moving it around the world every 4 years. HUGE amounts of money are wasted, investments in infrastructure often end up wasted as said improvements decay and are not maintained, and, as we will see this year, athletes lives and health are often put at risk.

I think a permanent home for the games is a great way of reducing these problems. And it would be a HUGE benefit for a country that could REALLY use the help. Seems like a no brainer to me...
 
cybrguy,

ginolicious

Well-Known Member
So you think Greece a very poor country and the reason why the euro is hurting would be a better suited country to make those promises?
 
ginolicious,

HD Springer

Well-Known Member
First off. Sorry but there hasn't been true "amateurs" in the Olympics for a long long long time. As soon as country's devoted time and even more importantly resources to beating other country's these athletes are anything but amateur. I know by title alone that there are many non-professionals in the olympics. I feel we need to call it like it is. Just because you don't get paid to perform that task outside of the Olympic umbrella doesn't mean your not a professional at that specific event/sport. These teams have the very best in everything.

Now I do feel we should move it but I think they should have like maybe 10 different countries that rotate and share. That way all they would have to do is update instead of build all new venues.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Rio police tell tourists they won't be able to protect them

By Arwa Damon and James Masters, CNN

Rio de Janeiro (CNN)The Olympic Games are 31 days away-- and Rio de Janeiro is in crisis.

Violence is on the rise, and police officers are at loggerheads with the Rio state government after claiming they've not been paid for months.

The message from police to tourists is clear: We won't be able to protect you.

The state's police officers vented their anger Monday with a sign saying, "Welcome to Hell," outside Rio's main airport. "Police and firefighters don't get paid, whoever comes to Rio de Janeiro will not be safe," the sign said.

And it's not just those coming from abroad who may be in danger -- locals are losing patience, too.

That's the harsh reality in the favelas around Rio, according to one resident, as the city gears up to host the 2016 Olympics amid increasing concerns over police brutality and the officers' ability, and desire, to keep people safe.

"It seems like there is an order (from authorities) to put fear in people so they stay calm, so they don't cause trouble in the city because the foreigners can't see that the city is chaotic," Higor da Silva, a resident of the Mare favela, told CNN.

160704013825-rio-mayor-olympic-problems-darlington-dnt-00020912-medium-plus-169.jpg


Rio's mayor talks about Olympic concerns 02:16
"They (state police) don't care if there is a child in the middle -- they shoot their target."

State security officials told CNN they have taken measures over the years to expel officers who use excessive force and say they have decreased the use of heavy weapons.

Rio de Janeiro Mayor Eduardo Paes told CNN this week the state was doing a "terrible" job in regard to security in the lead-up to the games, set to kick off August 5.

"It's completely failing at its work of policing and taking care of people," Paes said.

But on Tuesday, Brazilian officials put on a united front to assure the world that Rio was up to the task of hosting sport's greatest showpiece.

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"We are ready to start the games," Carlos Arthur Nuzman, president of the Rio 2016 Organizing Committee, said at a press conference in the city, adding that the event "could start today."

"They will be a maximum success in this beautiful city of ours," he said.

Speaking alongside him, Paes reiterated the announcement but cautioned that visitors should not expect to find a city that operates like Chicago, New York or London.

"Our development stage is different," he said.

The government later tweeted that every venue for the quadrennial event is ready, and the primary press center was open. It said there will be 85,000 security personnel at Olympic sites and important places like the city's airports.

Bailout

Rio de Janeiro state, which controls the region's military police force, issued an executive order requesting emergency funds from the federal government to pay officers their bonuses and overtime.

The 2.9 billion-real bailout (roughly $850 million) was made available last week after acting Gov. Francisco Dornelles said the games could be a "big failure" without the funds. It's believed that the back pay will be distributed this week.

"We are numbers, nothing more," one officer, who wished to remain anonymous, told CNN.

160705084427-rio-police-medium-plus-169.jpg


Police and firefighters protest over pay Monday at the Rio de Janeiro airport.

"You encounter a drug trafficker armed with lots of ammunition and you only have only 20 bullets. It is absurd."

Two officers, interviewed by CNN on condition of anonymity, said the city's scant resources are used to patrol tourist hotspots such as Copacabana instead of favelas where criminal gangs run the streets.

They have risked speaking out because they say they've watched fellow officers die to preserve Rio's image -- not to protect its people.

"We have a very common saying here in Brazil -- for the English to see," one of the officers said. "I believe that the politicians here are doing everything for the English to see."

Death rate rising

According to figures from Brazil's Public Security Institute published last week and distributed by Amnesty International, on-duty officers killed 40 people in May alone -- police killed 17 people during the same period last year.

Last year, police killed at least 307 people in Rio -- a figure that accounts for one in every five homicides there, according to Amnesty.

According to the figures, police killed 645 people in the state in 2015, and many of the victims were young, black men from favelas and poor communities.

Body parts found on Olympic site

"Brazil has one of the highest levels of homicides in the world, with around 42,000 people killed with guns every year," Atila Roque, Amnesty International's Brazil executive director, said in a statement.

"Those living in the most marginalized areas of the city are disproportionally affected by this crisis."

When Brazil hosted the World Cup in 2014, police in Rio de Janeiro state killed 580 people, a 40% increase from the previous year, the rights group said.

Problems mounting

Brazil has been plagued by problems leading up to the Olympics.

In May, the Brazilian Senate voted to begin impeachment proceedings against President Dilma Rousseff.

Rousseff is accused of breaking budget laws, but she maintains she did the same things previous Brazilian leaders have done.
 
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