Brexit - The Great British EU Dilema

1DMF said:

Maybe we should start Earthovision where America, India & Asia can join in?

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Oh my, that'd turn out to be the cheesiest musical program on earth... and the longest for that matter, I mean the results announcement lasts hours already it'd take the whole day!

Also I know about the common wealth and all that but you should still include India within Asia.

°k said:

Oh my, that'd turn out to be the cheesiest musical program on earth... and the longest for that matter, I mean the results announcement lasts hours already it'd take the whole day!

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So if we held it on the 23rd of June, we all get the day off for independence day and will have something to watch while we are at it

°k said:

Also I know about the common wealth and all that but you should still include India within Asia.

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Well it's considered a sub-continent which is why I separated it nothing to do with common wealth, but I guess I missed Antarctica!

So that's what it is! UK is a subcontinent too!

°k said:

Trying to translate that in US geography (not sure it's a good idea or can even be relevant) let's say that imagine yourself a Florida citizen, you have the right to freely go work and live in the New York state, there's no tax to pay when importing goods from NY to FL or vice and versa despite them using a different currency than the rest of the US, and there are laws to transfer social benefits amongst others from one state to another (all this works as well between all the other states member of the US). Now the state of New York decides to leave the US (with Wall street on their side of course). All those agreements will have to be renegotiated and it's unsure which way it'll go as it'd seem unfair the NY can have the same advantages as CA even though they have left the US. On top of that most states in this imaginary US speak a different language and have major cultural differences, not to mention a long history against each other and together as well to some extent, but that won't change though.

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In other words...............a clusterfuck, eh?

°k said:

This is the UK you're talking about football and pints is what's holding the country together, and if Israel can compete for the Euro cup I guess the UK quitters can too.

Also Texas is big but Scotland leaving the UK is more like one quarter/one third of the US (and not the poorest part) leaving, no?

As for how to explain what UK leaving the EU is... let's say a major player who has not always been the best team player and has a strong financial power on its side has just decided to leave. This will have repercussions on the current agreements between this player and the other ones, it's unsure which ones yet and to what extent, lots of negotiations ahead.
Trying to translate that in US geography (not sure it's a good idea or can even be relevant) let's say that imagine yourself a Florida citizen, you have the right to freely go work and live in the New York state, there's no tax to pay when importing goods from NY to FL or vice and versa despite them using a different currency than the rest of the US, and there are laws to transfer social benefits amongst others from one state to another (all this works as well between all the other states member of the US). Now the state of New York decides to leave the US (with Wall street on their side of course). All those agreements will have to be renegotiated and it's unsure which way it'll go as it'd seem unfair the NY can have the same advantages as CA even though they have left the US. On top of that most states in this imaginary US speak a different language and have major cultural differences, not to mention a long history against each other and together as well to some extent, but that won't change though.

Now some of you might disagree with this "comparison" and I couldn't blame you for that, just be gentle with me.

Edit: sorry if I have edited this post (I'm not even sure I did but the time stamp seems to indicate so), you're free to unlike it if you disagree with it now of course.

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Loved your edit

I'll reserve my. 'I told you so's.' for a few years time when taxes are at an all time high, the cost of living has increased, the war on drugs is up scaled and I've immigrated to Canada.

This shitty little country of gurners and chesse rollers just got a whole lot shittier. Imho.

http://qz.com/715845/british-stocks...brexit-or-15-years-worth-of-eu-contributions/
Annnddd...it's gone.

I live in the U.S my 401 retirement is taking a beating. I would assume all of this will smooth out.

I notice that Canada uses the Canadian dollar. Sounds like the people have spoken. I guess they will go back to the British Pound. I think Europe needs to stick together having the same money system. I know nothing about the economy so I'm just speaking off the top of my head.

Seems like people are pissed.

I've read that it might be harder now to legalize cannabis in the UK.

Edit
Lost 3% from my retirement. Good thing I'm not going to collect for 5 + or so more years.

1DMF said:

What I think will be interesting is to see how many other EU members call a referendum.

Holland is already calling for one as are a few others

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Nope, there is only 1 'party' in The Netherlands that is calling for that and he has been doing that all along.
I can only hope we won't make the same mistake, more division is not what we need...ever.

Havelock Vetenari said:

Nope, there is only 1 'party' in The Netherlands that is calling for that and he has been doing that all along.
I can only hope we won't make the same mistake, more division is not what we need...ever.

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Pretty sure Marine Le Pen and every intolerant/xenophobic attention seeker politician from extreme right will do the same if it's not done already.

Havelock Vetenari said:

http://qz.com/715845/british-stocks...brexit-or-15-years-worth-of-eu-contributions/
Annnddd...it's gone.

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How can anyone look at those figures and still feel proud of their vote escapes me.

I would feel ashamed.

It's just the begining.

To speak like a finance specialist twat: volatility was to be expected on the markets after such result, it should settle back favourably with time.

There was money to be made today (and lost for that matter) some probably took a nice advantage of this.

I fear that the regressives around the western world are pushing for the Balkanization of the world.
Lots of insular small states.
The future of this country could be fifty countries and international wars between the two oceans on the soil of America's manifest destiny.

In Great Britain, the youth voted to stay in the EU. They have to live longest with the bad choices of their countrymen.

Apparently they young voters did not turn out in numbers. The youth of American may also be victimized by the results of their own actions in not voting regularly and consistently.
I am 70. I think like Bernie Sanders. I want America's progressive youth to take charge, vote and take over.

Only a massive repudiation of Republican thinking can turn America around and save us from the austere world fated for the future by fuck-u regressives with their fearful, jingoistic, nationalistic, un-Christian, immoral, wall-building selfishness.

What's the matter with Kansas? Stop 'piss-on-you' politics!

I'm a bit worried about this whole thing, I'm legally a French citizen (fully french not dual French/British), both my parents are French but I was born and raised in Scotland. It very much is home, I was educated and cared for here, for me there are job opportunities as Scotland has always been a place of scientific research, I can't think of a place I love more than Scotland.
I hope this will not have consequences for me, while I speak French fluently and can read it I struggle to write it, here I am an academic. . . If I had to move to France I would essentially become illiterate. . . Might be time to apply for citizenship.

I don't get why Britain no longer wants to do the butt.

Man, I really am struggling to understand the position of the "leave's."

All I have read essentially boils down to... "I am English, not European, so fuck off being a part of that notion."

That's it? That's why you folks voted to leave, essentially?

But you still hope that you can travel freely between countries and that everyone else will still be nice to Britain? (Since the rest of the "kingdom," looks like it's on the way out.) Or that you will still be taken as seriously on the International scene after this?

Hope your notion of national identity was worth it. I sincerely do.

Someday... I hope we will just be humans from Earth. I won't hold my breathe though.

I read that Australia has the Australian dollar as well as Canada has their own currency. Hopefully the UK can do well. They shouldn't make Scotland or Ireland to follow suit unless the people want to go back to the English Pound.

I don't know if folks really know what would be in their best interest. Maybe they shouldn't have been given a choice. Just a thought.

Everyone need's to stop believing the lies and scaremongering, and regurgitating these lies.

At the end of the day, none of us can predict the future, but one thing is for sure, we won't be propping up failing countries anymore, which frees up money for people like me.

Europe is a sinking ship now with the almost 3rd world countries being let in. Why not jump ship, we can't control it.

°k said:

To speak like a finance specialist twat: volatility was to be expected on the markets after such result, it should settle back favourably with time.

There was money to be made today (and lost for that matter) some probably took a nice advantage of this.

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Sure it should settle back some, but favourably...?
Don't think so.
And for now...:
"The pound has fallen to levels not seen since 1985 following the UK's referendum vote to leave the EU."
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36611512

kellya86 said:

Everyone need's to stop believing the lies and scaremongering, and regurgitating these lies.

At the end of the day, none of us can predict the future, but one thing is for sure, we won't be propping up failing countries anymore, which frees up money for people like me.

Europe is a sinking ship now with the almost 3rd world countries being let in. Why not jump ship, we can't control it.

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Examples of those lies, scaremongering?
I've got a biggie for you from subhuman Farrage:
"No I can't, and I would have never made that claim," Farage said. "It was one of the mistakes I think the 'leave' campaign made"
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/06/nigel-farage-admits-his-bold-brexit-claim-was-mistake
Now he tells us...total twat...

kellya86 said:

Everyone need's to stop believing the lies and scaremongering, and regurgitating these lies.

At the end of the day, none of us can predict the future, but one thing is for sure, we won't be propping up failing countries anymore, which frees up money for people like me.

Europe is a sinking ship now with the almost 3rd world countries being let in. Why not jump ship, we can't control it.

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I dunno', we in Britain are tremendously rich. I personally consider myself one of the richest people in the world, I get free education and healthcare (I know that England doesn't get free education), I'm obscenely loaded.

Poor people in this country are rarely actually poor, in the sense they mostly have food, clothes and shelter. I don't think its bad for us to support poorer nations, especially with Britains history of exploiting the fuck out of everyone. I know very few people who actually 'need' more money.

Most of the people I know who consider themselves poor spend their time sitting around in houses doing expensive drugs a lot, thats not being poor. . .

I celebrate your vote, Britain. Tea and crumpets on me!

I think it's a bad thing (leaving). I like going to Europe and free travel around and the idea that I could choose to live somewhere else in Europe.

CarolKing said:

They shouldn't make Scotland or Ireland to follow suit unless the people want to go back to the English Pound.

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I'm hoping you're kidding but I don't get the joke then.

kellya86 said:

At the end of the day, none of us can predict the future, but one thing is for sure, we won't be propping up failing countries anymore, which frees up money for people like me.

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Quick Q if you don't mind me asking: what's "people like me"?

Then it might be a lot to read but let's look at facts, will you?

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/mycountry/UK/index_en.cfm

The EU budget and the UK:
The EU and national budgets serve different, yet complementary purposes. The EU budget targets areas where EU money can generate added value. For example, a project of such magnitude as the European satellite navigation system Galileo could not be financed by a single Member State alone.

Unlike the UK budget – or any other national budget – the EU budget does not fund defence expenditure or social protection, but is mostly investment spending. For example, the EU financed more than half of the investment needed to provide Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly with superfast broadband by 2015, making the region one of the best-connected places in the world.

[...]

The UK pays more into the EU budget than it receives from it. However, the net balance does not accurately reflect the many benefits of EU membership. Many of them, such as peace, political stability, security and freedom to live, work, study and travel anywhere in the Union cannot be measured. The UK government estimates that the single market brings in between GBP 31 billion and GBP 92 billion a year into the UK economy – or between 5 and 15 times the UK net contribution to the EU budget, which, once the UK’s rebate is taken into account, amounted to about GBP 7.258 billion - EUR 8.641 billion in 2013.

Moreover, European investments are intended to benefit the EU as a whole, and European funding in one country can benefit other EU members. Thanks to the single market, UK companies get contracts under EU-funded projects in other European countries. For example, the UK company, Intersurgical, was involved in two projects modernising production in Lithuania in 2009 and 2010. It received approximately GBP 1.05 million (EUR 1.25 million) for its contribution.

The UK is also one of the top recipients of EU research funding, second only to Germany. Research into revolutionary material graphene, discovered by scientists at Manchester University and set to become the wonder material of the 21st century, will receive GBP 45.36 million (EUR 54 million) from the EU.

[end of article quote]

On top of that, let's remember that in case of disaster like a mad cow outbreak for instance, the farmers from EU countries get a compensation.

Havelock Vetenari said:

Sure it should settle back some, but favourably...?

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I was being sarcastic sorry but yes the money doesn't disappear, it's settles favourably in someone else's pocket...

°k said:

Pretty sure Marine Le Pen and every intolerant/xenophobic attention seeker politician from extreme right will do the same if it's not done already.

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Yep, they are asking fot it (they already were actually, but now we are worried). And promising she will organize it if she's elected president (there's little chance for that, but polls show she should be in the final round). The current polls show French people are at 60% in favor of remaining in the UE. We pay a lot but also benefit a lot (especially agriculture) from it.

About the BREXIT: I'm appalled and anxious about the future. Especially for the poor and disabled in the UK. When every extremist party in the continent (and in others, cf Trump and Putine) is celebrating, you have to take a step back. And they should be. For maybe the first time their apocalyptic predictions are happening, and it gives them more credibility. The rise of xenophobia - I'm not saying everyone who voted was against immigration, but we can agree it's been an important influence.

I also think the EU is really flawed, but chosing to leave it is like breaking a thermometer because it's too hot.