narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
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Came across this while trying to find something to help Sadie:
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm435662.htm
CBD Question
- Thread starter GenYHippie
- Start date
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Came across this while trying to find something to help Sadie:
http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm435662.htm
little maggie
Well-Known Member
They are called canna-pet and are a hemp extract.
narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
I am not insistent on using the CBD. That's why I posted the question so I could get some information. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere, I decided against using it. I purchased a hemp product, but not canna-pet. See link above.
My apology for misunderstanding... does the hemp product you purchased claim to contain CBD's or some such ingredient as most hemp products like this contain?
narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
"Our CBD hemp oil is produced from organic, European grown hemp plants. Since we use the entire plant (seeds and stalk), our CBD hemp oil provides all of the benefits of CBD while also providing the multitude of additional benefits provided by the terpenoids and flavonoids. ...CBD Hemp Oil bottles contain 100 mg of organic CBD Hemp Oil."
That's what the website says. Who knows what's true? Have I bought a dud?
That's what the website says. Who knows what's true? Have I bought a dud?
@narrowsparrow - my concern remains - CBD has been known to exacerbate anxiety, and the product you are referring to contains CBD.
narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
Well, this has certainly been a learning experience. My excitement over finding something to help this poor dog has now evolved into a great concern over using CBD. I guess the only thing I can do is to give her a really tiny dose and observe her carefully. If there are no signs of increased anxiety, maybe I'll add a little bit more. I don't see how she could possibly be any more anxious than she already is during a storm, but armed with this information, I am going to proceed very, very slowly. I truly have nothing else I can try, but I will err on the side of caution, that's for sure. Thanks for the guidance, Snappo. I could have made a really bad mistake without your help. I don't think we have storms predicted in our near future, but one never knows these days. I will post the results, whatever they may be, in this thread in case someone else out there has the same problem.
I realize the safest thing to do is nothing. However, if you could see what Sadie endures, I think you'd want to at least try something different. Now I know that I have to be extremely careful and very conservative in using this stuff. In total, I've spent almost $70 on two products; I definitely will use the lower mg. product, and even then, I will use way under what is recommended. I love this dog so much that I will not do anything I think will harm her. If one or two drops (as opposed to the two droppers recommended) cause the least bit of increased anxiety, there's no way I would ever use it again. Period.
I realize the safest thing to do is nothing. However, if you could see what Sadie endures, I think you'd want to at least try something different. Now I know that I have to be extremely careful and very conservative in using this stuff. In total, I've spent almost $70 on two products; I definitely will use the lower mg. product, and even then, I will use way under what is recommended. I love this dog so much that I will not do anything I think will harm her. If one or two drops (as opposed to the two droppers recommended) cause the least bit of increased anxiety, there's no way I would ever use it again. Period.
little maggie
Well-Known Member
Is what you bought specifically for pets? I'd be afraid of using something for humans.
narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
Yes. The product I got is designed for pets. The stuff my friend gave me does not specify, so I won't be trying that one for Sadie.
little maggie
Well-Known Member
You might also try L-theanine. It helps anxiety in people and Amazon has a canine version. That's the only one I haven't tried so far. My behavioral vet is returning to assess my girl and I'm going to see what she says about it. I'd like to get her off the prescription meds she's on for anxiety. I ski;p the prescription ones on my days off but use the zylkene and cannapet.
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I deeply understand your love and concern for your precious furry soulmate. I share the same with mine to the extreme. Long before any expected storm, please proceed cautiously by monitoring small incremental increases in dosages. Do this during off-times when no storms are forecast near-term, and during times when she/he is at rest and copacetic in order to observe any minor changes in emotional and/or physical status. Panting, lip licking, drooling, dry mouth, pale gums, irritability, appetite change, muscular control, poor motivation, incoherence, odd responsiveness, disorientation, withdrawn or uncharacteristic attention-seeking, accelerated heart rate, etc., etc.,. If all seems relatively safe at the tested plateau dosage, administer just a bit less about an hour or two prior to the forecast hour of the approaching storm. A less full stomach will bring about CBD effect onset sooner than on a full stomach, so try to time feeding accordingly based on forecast. Also, when expecting a rough storm, stay close to your soulmate beginning several hours before, and provide lots of physical activity in order to work off excess energy and stress... walking and lots of fun and affectionate bonding. If you still have the Stress Vest you said you tried, put that on several hours prior to the impending storm as part of the special treatment. With the raging storm overhead, and CBD administered, keep the stress vest on and get up close and cozy for the duration. Be one with your dog!
narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
What a great post, Snappo. Dogs are such amazing creatures and get into our hearts in a way that people cannot... Good idea to try a tiny dose when there isn't a storm going on. I hadn't thought of that. Gives me more information on dosing. I am a big believer in taking my own medications on a full stomach, so I give my dog meds the same way. I'll be sure she's got a full belly when I try the new product. It won't be hard; she lives to eat!
I've tried playing with her during a storm, and she is completely disinterested. She is so distressed that she won't even eat if there is a storm going on or even if there's one coming. I have found that running water helps, so during storms we are huddled up in the bathroom with the shower and white noise machine on, bathroom door shut, and the radio tuned to a soothing male voice. (I think she lived with an elderly man before I adopted her as she always runs up to men when she seems them.) The other alternative is to lie in bed with her right up against me, TV blaring and white noise machine on. In both scenarios, the panting and violent shivers never stop, but she slightly less freaked out. New Year's Eve and the 4th of July are total nightmares because the fireworks last for a longer period of time than most storms do.
I've tried playing with her during a storm, and she is completely disinterested. She is so distressed that she won't even eat if there is a storm going on or even if there's one coming. I have found that running water helps, so during storms we are huddled up in the bathroom with the shower and white noise machine on, bathroom door shut, and the radio tuned to a soothing male voice. (I think she lived with an elderly man before I adopted her as she always runs up to men when she seems them.) The other alternative is to lie in bed with her right up against me, TV blaring and white noise machine on. In both scenarios, the panting and violent shivers never stop, but she slightly less freaked out. New Year's Eve and the 4th of July are total nightmares because the fireworks last for a longer period of time than most storms do.
I typically check my 5-10 day forecasts, and so should you, albeit that it is somewhat unreliable. A full stomach may not be optimal if you want optimally deep and longer-term effect from the dosage administered. Also be very aware that your dog will feed off of the overt intensity of your concern and can exacerbate anxiety commensurate with your own. They are extremely perceptive and will mirror our angst. It is imperative that you exude a peaceful nonchalant demeanor, and not an overly concerned protectiveness fraught with your own anxiety for hers/his. Be her/his rock without tears & fears! Please reread my posts several times, as I think you have yet to fully grasp the sensitive balance and depth of exploration that you must exercise prior to the real test. There are so many shades of grey here and mine-fields that will require you to tread very carefully over with extreme precision & care.
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narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
I always act like the storm is no big deal, but I do try to comfort her when the thunder/lightening is at its most intense. If the storm goes on for too long, then I just start going on about my business but remain close by. I don't think I am radiating anxiety; it's more that I don't want her to feel alone. And I don't want her to feel like I'm a nervous wreck b/c then she will be a (more) nervous wreck. I just want her to know I care about her distress. I hope I'm getting the balance right. It's tricky. As you said, they are really perceptive.
I definitely will re-read what you have written as I have found it to be very helpful. And you are right; I don't totally grasp the full effect of CBD, but I sure have learned how careful I must be. I plan to keep a log of the pre-storm experiments so that when I'm into a storm situation I won't have to rely on my (fading) memory.
My own personal chemistry is way off. I respond to "downers" by getting hyper. So I have to realize that this could happen to a non-human being as well. I shall be treading very lightly!
I definitely will re-read what you have written as I have found it to be very helpful. And you are right; I don't totally grasp the full effect of CBD, but I sure have learned how careful I must be. I plan to keep a log of the pre-storm experiments so that when I'm into a storm situation I won't have to rely on my (fading) memory.
My own personal chemistry is way off. I respond to "downers" by getting hyper. So I have to realize that this could happen to a non-human being as well. I shall be treading very lightly!
narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
Reporting back on the use of Pet Releaf hemp oil 100:
The first of the three storms was the worst. The pamphlet I received with this product gave dosage instructions based on weight. Sadie weighs about 16 pounds, so I gave her 1/2 a dropper. When there was no change in her terror level, I gave her another 1/2. There were no signs of increased agitation. It would have be hard to tell, however; she was at her maximum freak-out pretty early on. Since the vendor had recommended that I buy a higher dose (which was very expensive; I declined), I felt that I could safely administer another 1/2 dropper, as that was the recommended dose for a dog up to 25 pounds. At that point, there was a slight improvement in the intensity of the shivering. It was still pretty severe, but not as "deep," if that makes any sense. The second storm was aggravating, but not debilitating, so I gave her just one dropper all at once. Again, the same observation -- some improvement, but not a 180. Last night, we were in line for a major hail event (4" in diameter). Sadie knew it way sooner than I did. I dosed her before the big pink/maroon blob on the radar was due to arrive. I was glued to my tablet, watching the radar when the thing dipped south and barely grazed us. There was a lot of heavy rain, wind, and the wretched thunder/lighting combo. So Sadie was all juiced up, and the storm wasn't. That means it was hard for me to tell if it helped or not. Her behavior was more distracted than terrified, but I had to keep the distractions going quite a while.
At no point did I notice any kind of extra added anxiety or hyperactivity. For my dog, anyway, this is safe and somewhat helpful remedy. It won't work miracles. It's also a very cleanly made product: Organic hemp and coconut oil. That's all.
Oh, and there's another major storm due tomorrow. WTF??
The first of the three storms was the worst. The pamphlet I received with this product gave dosage instructions based on weight. Sadie weighs about 16 pounds, so I gave her 1/2 a dropper. When there was no change in her terror level, I gave her another 1/2. There were no signs of increased agitation. It would have be hard to tell, however; she was at her maximum freak-out pretty early on. Since the vendor had recommended that I buy a higher dose (which was very expensive; I declined), I felt that I could safely administer another 1/2 dropper, as that was the recommended dose for a dog up to 25 pounds. At that point, there was a slight improvement in the intensity of the shivering. It was still pretty severe, but not as "deep," if that makes any sense. The second storm was aggravating, but not debilitating, so I gave her just one dropper all at once. Again, the same observation -- some improvement, but not a 180. Last night, we were in line for a major hail event (4" in diameter). Sadie knew it way sooner than I did. I dosed her before the big pink/maroon blob on the radar was due to arrive. I was glued to my tablet, watching the radar when the thing dipped south and barely grazed us. There was a lot of heavy rain, wind, and the wretched thunder/lighting combo. So Sadie was all juiced up, and the storm wasn't. That means it was hard for me to tell if it helped or not. Her behavior was more distracted than terrified, but I had to keep the distractions going quite a while.
At no point did I notice any kind of extra added anxiety or hyperactivity. For my dog, anyway, this is safe and somewhat helpful remedy. It won't work miracles. It's also a very cleanly made product: Organic hemp and coconut oil. That's all.
Oh, and there's another major storm due tomorrow. WTF??
sickmanfraud
Well-Known Member
I was pointed to this link recently. quite pertinent.
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/good-....13464.zbIsIL&rd=1&src=newsletter1032584&t=10
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/good-....13464.zbIsIL&rd=1&src=newsletter1032584&t=10
narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
Excellent article. Thanks so much for the link.
Morimoto
Well-Known Member
That is the most concise and well thought out article I have read on CBD and THC in a long time! Thanks for posting!
Wizsteve
Well-Known Member
Just found this 
note the Isomerization part while searching for converting thc to cbd
i found the other ...
The potency of marijuana can be increased by about 50% simply by simmering a water slurry of the material for 2 hours. Add water as necessary to maintain the level. Cool and filter the mixture, and refrigerate the aqueous solution. Dry the leaf material at low heat. Drink the tea before smoking the marijuana. The effects are much more intense and last longer than those from the untreated leaves. The boiling water treatment isomerizes the inactive CBD, and decarboxylates THCA to THC.
(( maxerizer looked like a small perc machine would steam your herb to do this.))
But if your growing your own and want cbd all you have to do is keep it growing thc will be converting to CBD as the weeks pass and this works very well for CBD strains and is seldom done.
http://www.rollitup.org/t/converting-thc-to-its-acetate-makes-it-psychedelic.321275/
Also a good webpage
http://www.mmjjournal.com/thc-vs-cbd/
CBD
CBD or cannabidiol is another cannabinoid found in marijuana. It does not have psychoactive effects and therefore it does not make patients “stoned”.
CBD works differently from THC since it has minimal tendency to bind to cannabinoid 1 and 2 receptors. It works by inhibiting fatty acid amide hydroxylase (FAAH) which is the enzyme that metabolizes anandamide.
Anandamide, or arachidonoylethanolamide is a cannabinoid that is naturally found inside the body. It binds to cannabinoids receptors like CB1 and causes them to turn off the release of inhibitory neurotransmitters. This stops the release of dopamine and consequently its effects.
By inhibiting FAAH which breaks down anandamide, CBD ensures that anandamide effects are felt for much longer.
CBD also triggers the release of another cannabinoid that is naturally found in the body known as 2-AG or 2-arachidonoyl glycerol. This endocannabinoid activates both the cannabinoid 1 and 2 receptors.
As a result of these effects, CBD has similar pharmacological properties to THC. It is therefore the better options for patients looking for epilepsy treatment, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, glaucoma and other conditions that are treated with medical marijuana since it can relieve their symptoms without making them high on their medication.
note the Isomerization part while searching for converting thc to cbd i found the other ...
The potency of marijuana can be increased by about 50% simply by simmering a water slurry of the material for 2 hours. Add water as necessary to maintain the level. Cool and filter the mixture, and refrigerate the aqueous solution. Dry the leaf material at low heat. Drink the tea before smoking the marijuana. The effects are much more intense and last longer than those from the untreated leaves. The boiling water treatment isomerizes the inactive CBD, and decarboxylates THCA to THC.
(( maxerizer looked like a small perc machine would steam your herb to do this.))
But if your growing your own and want cbd all you have to do is keep it growing thc will be converting to CBD as the weeks pass and this works very well for CBD strains and is seldom done.
http://www.rollitup.org/t/converting-thc-to-its-acetate-makes-it-psychedelic.321275/
Also a good webpage
http://www.mmjjournal.com/thc-vs-cbd/
CBD
CBD or cannabidiol is another cannabinoid found in marijuana. It does not have psychoactive effects and therefore it does not make patients “stoned”.
CBD works differently from THC since it has minimal tendency to bind to cannabinoid 1 and 2 receptors. It works by inhibiting fatty acid amide hydroxylase (FAAH) which is the enzyme that metabolizes anandamide.
Anandamide, or arachidonoylethanolamide is a cannabinoid that is naturally found inside the body. It binds to cannabinoids receptors like CB1 and causes them to turn off the release of inhibitory neurotransmitters. This stops the release of dopamine and consequently its effects.
By inhibiting FAAH which breaks down anandamide, CBD ensures that anandamide effects are felt for much longer.
CBD also triggers the release of another cannabinoid that is naturally found in the body known as 2-AG or 2-arachidonoyl glycerol. This endocannabinoid activates both the cannabinoid 1 and 2 receptors.
As a result of these effects, CBD has similar pharmacological properties to THC. It is therefore the better options for patients looking for epilepsy treatment, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, glaucoma and other conditions that are treated with medical marijuana since it can relieve their symptoms without making them high on their medication.
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looney2nz
Research Geek, Mad Scientist
Have you found anyone selling a lab-tested AC/DC strain? Should be around 20% CBD and 0.74% THC, so way below hemp levels. CBD is anti-anxiety and depression, however if you don't find the 'sweet spot' for THC, it can definitely cause anxiety in many people. This strain should eliminate THC as an instigator.
narrowsparrow
Well-Known Member
I wish I could answer your question, looney2nz. I don't know enough to do so, but I know the folks on this board know a lot about all things MJ. CBD is confusing to me.
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Wanted to let those who may be interested that we had a gonzo thunderstorm down here last night, and I dosed Sadie with two droppers of CBD, since 1 1/2 previously did nothing very noticeable for her. Neither did two droppers. She was a wreck for five hours until the storm finally wore itself (and me!) out. So I have to take back my recommendation for the product. It costs $40, and Sadie says it's not worth it.
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Wanted to let those who may be interested that we had a gonzo thunderstorm down here last night, and I dosed Sadie with two droppers of CBD, since 1 1/2 previously did nothing very noticeable for her. Neither did two droppers. She was a wreck for five hours until the storm finally wore itself (and me!) out. So I have to take back my recommendation for the product. It costs $40, and Sadie says it's not worth it.
Wizsteve
Well-Known Member
Have you tried buying your dog ear muffs ? they cost around $55.00 might be just what you need.
www.earplugstore.com/mumurco.html
looney2nz
Research Geek, Mad Scientist
Don't know what the source of the CBD was (sadly there's been an explosion of snake oil salefolks), but I'd suggest getting the dog a thundershirt!
looney2nz
Research Geek, Mad Scientist
Snappo, could you provide a citation for this?
I haven't seen CBD linked to anxiety, I HAVE seen THC linked to it!
And to the rest of the crew, where is the best place to post reference info?
I've got a boiling point chart for cannabinoids, I'm pretty sure I've got a
vapor point chart, but I haven't found it yet.