Divine Tribe atty's

fernand · May 27, 2016

@OF, you're apparently dyslexic, or in a hurry, and you disagree with what you misread. We're among friends here, we're trying to get to the bottom of some not so simple stuff, please don't confuse folks by correcting, until you're sure you've read a post correctly.

OF said:
The displayed temperature is an estimate based on measured resistance change, not a measurement of the actual temperature ...

It's NOT NOT NOT the temperature displayed I'm calling TT and using in the equation. That would make no sense. It's the actual temperature that corresponds to the high resistance RT (that IS read from the display). TT is what I'm getting from a thermocouple inserted within the donut. PLEASE, dude, you're a great contributor, please read what people write before jumping.

Peace.

sokesleezy · May 27, 2016

Been reading through this thread for the past day or so. Answered a lot of my questions. Still not sure about what mod to get. The Pico appears to have everything you'd need to have full control with the 2.7 donut. This is all new to me(box mods, attys etc). Would there be an advantage to getting a more expensive mod?

Any update on when the V3 atomizer will be available? It sounds like its going to be great. I would love to try the dry herb atty but am nervous about accidentally combusting. How easy is it to do so unintentionally?

OF · May 27, 2016

sokesleezy said:
Would there be an advantage to getting a more expensive mod?

I would love to try the dry herb atty but am nervous about accidentally combusting. How easy is it to do so unintentionally?

The next 'step up' I think is the VTC Mini. A 'better' display that shows the resistance change in Ohms, keeps track of total 'hits' or total 'button down time' for instance. IMO the sharp corners make it 'less comfortable in the hand'. I have both, and appreciate the extra data more than most I think, but the Pico gets the nod most often because of that 'fits the hand better' factor. Your call, of course, but you asked......

Something else I don't recall being discussed is cases. That is the slip on Silicone rubber covers, sometimes called 'skins'? IMO they do improve the grip and protect the unit well, and they can be kind of festive if that suits your mood. At a couple bucks each, you should consider one or more? With the the VTC Mini you can also get one in synthetic leather that's also nice IMO, although more expensive. AFAIK you can't get them (the leather version) for the Pico.

There are bigger (two cell) versions of both (Cuboid and TC 100W) which are of course bigger and heavier but have longer run times. Surprisingly, the Cuboid isn't that much bigger due to more efficient packaging. The TC 100W doesn't need both the 18650s (Cuboid does), at least not at the levels we need for DT or DC so you can use the space for stash.

There's also a very nice 3 cell unit, the RX200 but that's getting seriously into 'shooting a sparrow with a cannon' territory.

For a first attempt I suggest looking at the Pico and VTC Mini and think the Pico is slightly better for the things most guys want and is cheaper......which most guys also want, I think?

OF

Iamlarrytoo · May 27, 2016

This thread has been so interesting. I have yet to try TC. I have the Eleaf 40w Mod that DT offered. I use it at mostly 10 watts and pulse the button to get the desired results. The results are very good, both in taste and yield. From what I understand the TC is different on the other mods OF references. I have not tried TC on the 40w Mod. The display shows a full 40 w on this mode and I think this would fry the DT.

Now the stupid question, what exactly does TC buy me?

Lar

SlinginPaint · May 27, 2016

Iamlarrytoo said:
Now the stupid question, what exactly does TC buy me?

Lar

A ticket to flavor town!!! As well as not needing to feather the power anymore because the device is monitoring it (to an extent) for you.

OF · May 27, 2016

Iamlarrytoo said:
The display shows a full 40 w on this mode and I think this would fry the DT.

Now the stupid question, what exactly does TC buy me?

It doesn't kill it off right off, but it does really hammer the heater until it can start to cut back as the temperature rises. This leads to early death of the heater (basically anything over 14 Watts is getting onto really thin ice Matt tells us.

The recommended mods (VTC Mini, Pico, Cuboid, TC 100W and so on) let you set the 'start up power' to anything (within range) you want. Mine start out the cycle at 12 Watts (12.5 for older, more worn ones having trouble 'making temperature' with 12). Which is lucky, they can do 75 Watts and more depending on model.

And, of course, you need to 'lie' to it about the target temperature since the mod doesn't accept custom values. And the removable/replaceable battery in the other candidates are a real plus to many, and for sure will be real important should you like the mod so much you wear it's battery out (you then have to replace the entire unit not just the 18650 inside.

Those two features (being able to use 'real' degree inputs) and (more importantly) custom tailor the power delivery before regulation are I think the two big advantages of the update?

SlinginPaint said:
A ticket to flavor town!!! As well as not needing to feather the power anymore because the device is monitoring it (to an extent) for you.

Excellently put, kind of an 'automatic feathering'? Some of us can get distracted, even loose count sometimes, this comes in mighty handy for sure. One thing sure, once a guy tries it I don't think he's going back anytime soon.

OF

Iamlarrytoo · May 27, 2016

Ok, ok, I'll get VTC Mini. My wife hates you guys, I love you guys.

Who would have thought this persuit would be so educational.

Lar

fernand · May 28, 2016

... so educational ... and not cheap. The way I used to justify the flow of vape gadgets was by comparing to two packs of cigarettes a day. Easily $300 a month. But after 5 years of not smoking, not even vaping nicotine, I've decided I'm out of excuses, I've run out of lies. No more !

So. What's the best FC special package Matt offers for a couple more DT bottoms?

OF · May 28, 2016

fernand said:
So. What's the best FC special package Matt offers for a couple more DT bottoms?

This is the one I've been using:
http://ineedhemp.com/product/2-pack-replacment-bases/

Ten bucks each seems reasonable considering it includes First Class mail, typically a few days to get here. If you're in the mood for a 2.7 MP there's also the FC special for that, $15 for MP and one base.

OF

fernand · May 29, 2016

Thanks, @OF, But drat, EVERYTHING only costs a little, and it mysteriously adds up. But what is more important?

Most convincing of all is @Vape Donkey 650 's rational rationale. Keep a separate strain loaded in each one. And a TC mod with each one. And scatter them around the house like Easter Eggs. But don't you end up with a gummed up donut, and have to clean it anyway?

I'm trying a different approach, I'll grant you it's not quite as Instant Reward as VD's. And that's to only load enough for the session, and burn off any reside so you're ready for the next sess. And this way you scatter little jars all over the house and you visit each station with your device in hand.

At $10 each an intermediate way is possible: keep loaded donuts scattered, and only carry the more expensive mod with you.

And last but not least the Couch Lock Economy method. Don't move at all, just stay put, and keep your mod, a 2.5 with a water tool, your stash and bottles of gatorade by the couch. If the dread urge to wander should rear its head, just vape some more of an Indica Shatter.

Steven · May 29, 2016

fernand said:
Thanks, @OF, But drat, EVERYTHING only costs a little, and it mysteriously adds up. But what is more important?

Most convincing of all is @Vape Donkey 650 's rational rationale. Keep a separate strain loaded in each one. And a TC mod with each one. And scatter them around the house like Easter Eggs. But don't you end up with a gummed up donut, and have to clean it anyway?

I'm trying a different approach, I'll grant you it's not quite as Instant Reward as VD's. And that's to only load enough for the session, and burn off any reside so you're ready for the next sess. And this way you scatter little jars all over the house and you visit each station with your device in hand.

At $10 each an intermediate way is possible: keep loaded donuts scattered, and only carry the more expensive mod with you.

And last but not least the Couch Lock Economy method. Don't move at all, just stay put, and keep your mod, a 2.5 with a water tool, your stash and bottles of gatorade by the couch. If the dread urge to wander should rear its head, just vape some more of an Indica Shatter.

Haha. Funny you said this. Well some people would say, "I don't want to have to carry a mod around". Don't worry I just saw this. But to be honest I don't know whether to laugh at this or take it seriously. It's a real mod selling on indiegogo right now. The form factor does look very convenient though. Looks awesome to use on a bike

stinkytofus · May 29, 2016

maybe you can make a convection style oven/replaceable oven within a tank like structure with mouthpiece on top and airflow coming from the bottom, and if you can make it work with temperature control mods, that would be cool + cool

AnthoFranco · May 29, 2016

just got a sweet deal over here.... 3pak bonanza

http://www.ebay.com/usr/divinetribe?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

insideoutman · May 30, 2016

Steven said:
Haha. Funny you said this. Well some people would say, "I don't want to have to carry a mod around". Don't worry I just saw this. But to be honest I don't know whether to laugh at this or take it seriously. It's a real mod selling on indiegogo right now. The form factor does look very convenient though. Looks awesome to use on a bike

That does look weird. Its funny he's using purple efests. I wonder what happens if the cord shorts out around the persons neck while drawing the 50 amps the efests claim.. It'd be cool but chips, gonna be chips, short out whenever there's water. And be broken. I'd rather have a full mech, with the battery, being the entire cord itself, with a thick casing, insulated neckpiece, and a short-circut protection that releases the entire necklace instantly.. . Have a small plastic (squeezable) juice bottle, hanging on the bottom of this medallion, with an 510 connection, which is where the cord attaches, to provide the atomizer, with the bottom feed (drilled out 510) on top, as a sculpture. I might buy that but eh.

stinkytofus said:
maybe you can make a convection style oven/replaceable oven within a tank like structure with mouthpiece on top and airflow coming from the bottom, and if you can make it work with temperature control mods, that would be cool + cool

see above^^ or try modding a RTA with a donut and readyxwick

Matt thanks for the speedy shipping. Thoroughly enjoying my first donut! Almost a day of use and still just learning its techniques. Dealing with the actual shatter is the hardest part, because I have no idea how to use the tools or have enough precision ha.

edit: ~~Matt, make me a bottom fed donut V3.1 plz thnx~~ -- no need i guess. just keep improving the donut and the attys. I cant wait for my V3, which i may make 3.1

if it has enough room, i think it will work bottom fed with either oil or a wax melted in VG/PG mix..with readxwick strategically placed in the atty chamber.. with the donuts holding it in place! think like a little fence of ceramic yarn, with ceramic donuts as the "coil" like 5 of em.. which i can actually do if i find an atty that works well, with everything... i wanna try that lol

Vape Donkey 650 · May 30, 2016

OF said:
First off, this is a materials thing. Best thought of in those terms I think. The resistance to current flow in most metals and alloys (mixtures of metals) goes up with temperature. The material expands, it's a longer jump to the next atom, and the atoms are vibrating more so they're 'harder to hit'. This means more atoms 'bounce back' the wrong way, lowering conduction and raising resistance. But it's a percentage deal, not absolute numbers. If a piece of the metal goes from .6 to .9 Ohms (a .3 Ohm rise) that exact same material will go from 1.2 to 1.8 Ohms (now a .6 rise) if it's twice as long or half as big in cross section area (or some combination of that). We need to think it terms of percent (or PPM, which is 10,000 ths of percent. A typical metal (like Copper) rises about a third of a percent per degree C (about .18% per degree F), we seem to be a little less than that, closer to 1/4% per degree C.

So, if we want to heat to say 200C starting from 20C we need a 180 degree rise? Times .25% per degree and we get about a 45% rise. If we start at .6 Ohms that would be .87 Ohms (.6 X 1.45). The mod will apply heat until it hits that resistance value (target), no matter what the temperature really is. If you want more heat you an either dial up 210C and see or adjust the 'percent per degree' number. If you want ten degrees more (190C rise) you need to raise the M value by (190/180) so you'd try .264% instead (or 264 not 250 in the table. Using a larger 'percent per degree number' will cause the mod to calculate and therefore seek a higher resistance instead. And that means the heater has to get hotter to make it to the new (higher) resistance.

Ok, I think I'm getting part of this...so the real physical property we are trying to harness here is the percentage Ω rise per degree, which is a fairly reliable and predictable rate for many known metal/conductors right? And since it is rising in such small numbers, and to not have to input all those extra dots and zeros with a long multi-digit #, our mod makers have generously asked us to multiply * 100,000 to give us short, neat numbers, right?

But then I get more confused again... :uhh:

Maybe because of the discrepancy between the way these TC formulas are intended to control just the coil temps in traditional tanks, but if you add more (ceramic) insulation at your intended heating point... and try to measure it... :mental:

fernand said:
@Vape Donkey 650 The TT value isn't a target temp, it's the measured temp at the high temperature.

So we measure base (room) temp T0, say 21 deg C, and we measure the cold resistance R0. Then we heat it and observe resistance RT on the display, at a specific measured temperature TT. Then we plug these 4 values into the formula.

R0 is resistance at base temp in ohms
RT is resistance at high temp in ohms
DeltaR = RT - R0
T0 is base/room temp in celcius
TT is high temp in celcius.
DeltaT = TT - T0

Evic TCR = ( (DeltaR / R0 ) / DeltaT ) * 100,000

We could heat it to any temp we want, to measure TT, as long as we simultaneously measure RT, the high resistance. And not crack the donut.

This whole time we don't care what the target temp was, what we want is TT, the MEASURED temp that corresponds to a specific RT resistance reading. Those 4 points graph a section of a straight line. The TCR is the slope, the steepness, of the line.

That graph answers the question: how high is the resistance gonna be at any temperature? That's what the processor in the mod is asking. If I want to hit 150 deg C, it says, what resistance should I be seeing at 150 deg C, if the base resistance was 0.85 ohms?

Well, Mr. Mod, look at the graph, pick 150 deg C on the X axis, and look up the resistance on the Y axis. By calculating the TCR and inputting it into the mod, we're giving Mr. Mod a way to build that graph from any starting resistance. As OF is explaining, it's relative to a specific starting resistance.

If the TCR value we got from the formula is accurate, and we input it into the mod, then on the next run in TC mode, our high temp TT that we reach should match the target temp we selected on the display.

And that's the only situation in which measured TT and selected target temp will match.

Fernand, but is that how you think joyetech, eleaf, etc would intend for it to work if you think they were able to play around with our 2.5 donuts and try to make a TC mode for them? I know you're measuring it with a thermocouple...

Or was the whole idea of this... for you to measure your donut temps first, then plug in that variable with the other known variable (Ω rise) to try to find the ideal TCR figure for us to input and use?

I'd love to see more data collected about this with measured donut temps, Ω delta changes required to acheive this, and the base Ω of different atomizers, because i suspect if you plot this data, it may not be completely linear... or maybe donuts with different base Ω could have different slopes, but still be fairly straight? But I could be wrong still :huh:

OF said:
We disagree. I believe the only thing measured is resistance. The temperature displayed is based on the information you've fed it. Change that information and the 'measured temperature' changes for the same number of degrees as before? Exactly the same performance can be had with slightly different programming to input the rise in PPM with no mention of temperature or degrees at all.

Just like with your car curse control which 'measures' driveshaft revolutions not MPH or KmPH.

The displayed temperature is an estimate based on measured resistance change, not a measurement of the actual temperature as I see it. Not that it's all that important, but I believe that's a more accurate way to look at/describe it.

OF

That's pretty much how I thought all this stuff was working, at least as it related to use ceramic donut lovers? :huh:

fernand said:
@OF, you're apparently dyslexic, or in a hurry, and you disagree with what you misread. We're among friends here, we're trying to get to the bottom of some not so simple stuff, please don't confuse folks by correcting, until you're sure you've read a post correctly.

It's NOT NOT NOT the temperature displayed I'm calling TT and using in the equation. That would make no sense. It's the actual temperature that corresponds to the high resistance RT (that IS read from the display). TT is what I'm getting from a thermocouple inserted within the donut. PLEASE, dude, you're a great contributor, please read what people write before jumping.

Peace.

So you were just getting the measurement first to work backwards with algebra like I was thinking? IDK I might have to tap out of this math fight already

insideoutman said:
___Last thing I promise,
ReadyXWick anyone? ceramic fiber rope. nextel. It's what I use for my nicotine Atty's. Rinse with water, and dry burn and you're good to go, like new. Will I be taking one for the team?? In the name of Science, of course!

& in case you need to read up/more info:
http://www.3m.com/market/industrial/ceramics/materials/nextel.html
& this is the guy that bakes it (supposed to completely free it of chemicals by way of a specific kiln equipment/timing/technique - believe it or not):
http://www.rbasupplies.com/READYxWICK.html

Yes please do experiment for us, for science! Using ceramics as a material in vapes in a side tangent I think most of us here are interested in. :tup:

sokesleezy said:
I would love to try the dry herb atty but am nervous about accidentally combusting. How easy is it to do so unintentionally?

Not that easy, but certainly possible. It would require a heavy duty mod and near-continuous usage in between hits (not leaving much time to pause or cool between hits) and probably using wattages above the recommended 40 watts. Maybe my lips are more sensitive than others', but I felt like the mouthpiece was getting too hot to touch would prevent me from using it too rapidly, well before things were getting hot enough inside the oven to combust.

Vape Donkey 650 · May 30, 2016

fernand said:
... so educational ... and not cheap. The way I used to justify the flow of vape gadgets was by comparing to two packs of cigarettes a day. Easily $300 a month. But after 5 years of not smoking, not even vaping nicotine, I've decided I'm out of excuses, I've run out of lies. No more !

I think I missed the point of this post, so that means you're saying you have no more valid reasons to buy new mods / vape gear?

My justification used to be, that I would sell all my older / obsolete / unused vape pens & mods to my friends, since they would come to me asking, since I would be known for hoarding vape stuff. But I have gotten rid of nearly all my unused pens and mods, I was selling 1 old one and buying 2 new

My fleet is pretty much all up-to-date and current and it would be a stretch to justify another. Time for a tactical pause on purchases for me...

fernand said:
Thanks, @OF, But drat, EVERYTHING only costs a little, and it mysteriously adds up. But what is more important?

Most convincing of all is @Vape Donkey 650 's rational rationale. Keep a separate strain loaded in each one. And a TC mod with each one. And scatter them around the house like Easter Eggs. But don't you end up with a gummed up donut, and have to clean it anyway?

That was my reason for a short while, but I'm beyond that now. :brow:

The donuts get gunked up for sure, but that will happen anyways if you're not completely cleaning off the donut after every few re-loads. My idea is to reward some work (pre-loading donuts) but maybe I'm also a bit lazy on the cleaning, or a little more tolerant of crust than others. Of my current fleet of 12 mods with 2.5s, only 2 can really use a cleaning, as you might see with my last donut p0rn.

But the hard work of pre-loading, can be time consuming. 2 days ago i spend a good 20+ minutes loading 7 or 8 attys, I try to be precise in loading the deep bowls and scraping away what reclaim I could. I may not use some of them for days then. But my lust for on-demand variety of strains justifies this I guess. Spreading the use around stretches out needing to clean them so often too

fernand said:
I'm trying a different approach, I'll grant you it's not quite as Instant Reward as VD's. And that's to only load enough for the session, and burn off any reside so you're ready for the next sess. And this way you scatter little jars all over the house and you visit each station with your device in hand.

At $10 each an intermediate way is possible: keep loaded donuts scattered, and only carry the more expensive mod with you.

And last but not least the Couch Lock Economy method. Don't move at all, just stay put, and keep your mod, a 2.5 with a water tool, your stash and bottles of gatorade by the couch. If the dread urge to wander should rear its head, just vape some more of an Indica Shatter.

Instant reward, that's a fair label for my practices. :cool:

I can't claim that my way is the only right way to donut, or that you're doing it wrong. These little things are pretty adaptable to each user's preferences.

Scattering donuts around rather than mods could work, but the problem of your mod mis-reading base Ω could be an issue, especially if the donuts you scatter around have base Ω's of 0.72, 0.75, 0.77, 0.74, and 0.79, for example. The same mod can confuse which one it's seeing, and force the 0.74 to read at 0.77, which can require extra effort to override.

What's the difference between 0.74 and 0.77 one may ask? Well, in TCR mode, it could be 30-40F using the same settings, if your mod isn't seeing it right. That's enough to make the difference between a strong hit or a weak, wispy hit that mostly wastes your load by underheating it and melting it to seep beneath the donut cup :bang:

I've been there, very annoying. Wastes my effort and hash. Only 2 solutions to Ω creep I've found: plug in another atty that has a Ω of 0.1 or more, or re-flash the firmware :suspicious:

Having to do that to get the perfect vape you want each time you plug in a different donut, not convenient.

I wish my joyetech mods were not "remembering" and storing recent atomizers Ωs, bothering me more than helping. Last one I had that didn't do this I think was the big ol' Evic VT. I'm not sure if my eleaf pico's are doing this too :suspicious:

The fact that most mods I have set up with a 2.5 donut costs about the same or less than a gram of premium concentrate helped convince me to get where I am now instead of dealing with the above.

But you'd don't have to go overboard and be gluttonous like me. :freak:

If you've got another hundred or so bucks to spend, you can have 3-4 mods in your possession with their own 2.5/2.7, 1-2 for indica/sativa/other, and not have to change atomizers that much.

AnthoFranco said:
just got a sweet deal over here.... 3pak bonanza

http://www.ebay.com/usr/divinetribe?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

Damn... that's the plug... more reason to splurge! :nod:

Vape Donkey 650 · May 30, 2016

Steven said:
Haha. Funny you said this. Well some people would say, "I don't want to have to carry a mod around". Don't worry I just saw this. But to be honest I don't know whether to laugh at this or take it seriously. It's a real mod selling on indiegogo right now. The form factor does look very convenient though. Looks awesome to use on a bike

Ha.. interesting. I wouldn't wanna buy one but I applaud the effort towards progress :clap:

I think it would be well suited for some of the more fast paced action sports like biking, kayaking, others. I'm also interested in how the TC works, how you edit the settings. With buttons? Bluetooth? Plug into your phone/computer with usb? How is that DNA40 chip too? I thought that one doesn't work that well with our donuts?

I'm not nearly as active as that guy, but for me, carrying a mod around is not a problem at all, especially with how much smaller they've gotten. Cuboid mini and artery nugget mod are 2 great examples. Tiny, small. Dont like the nugget as much, but the cuboid mini is so small and light and has great customizability and performance, and many more watts than I need.

In the spirit of self promotion, I did something great for myself that I haven't done in months: go for a jog / run outside of my house!

I don't do it as much as I should, or used to , but ever since I've been vaping, I've taken a mod with me to enjoy during a rest in the mid-point of my run, farthest from home at the most scenic point. Used to be little pen vapes and those old big metal x6 mods that Matt sold, who remembers those?

Switching to box mods made it a bit less convenient, but not a big deal. I've run a few miles with a sweaty evic VTC in my palms. :lol:

Several times

And now I found an old belt case for an old mp3 player I had, a diamond rio. (look that up to see how old I am haha $:\$ ) Any of my mods fit firmly and securely in it, even the cuboid 200. Clipped it on my waistband and it worked perfect. No sweaty eleaf pico this time around. No need to buy an "extreme sports" mod for me yet

stinkytofus said:
maybe you can make a convection style oven/replaceable oven within a tank like structure with mouthpiece on top and airflow coming from the bottom, and if you can make it work with temperature control mods, that would be cool + cool

insideoutman said:
edit: ~~Matt, make me a bottom fed donut V3.1 plz thnx~~ -- no need i guess. just keep improving the donut and the attys. I cant wait for my V3, which i may make 3.1
if it has enough room, i think it will work bottom fed with either oil or a wax melted in VG/PG mix..with readxwick strategically placed in the atty chamber.. with the donuts holding it in place! think like a little fence of ceramic yarn, with ceramic donuts as the "coil" like 5 of em.. which i can actually do if i find an atty that works well, with everything... i wanna try that lol

Well, I'm doing something kinda like that...not convection... but close? A bottom-gravity fed ceramic and cotton cylindrical chimney, more like? I'm a big fan of using ceramic coated heaters wherever possible, and temp control is a MUST for me in any vape device these days.

I was getting tired of re-loading my donuts on co2 duty. I love vaping co2 oil, but of all the good materials you can vape on your donut, co2 oil is the one that gives you the least amount of hits per reasonable load. About 4-6 the way I use it, while good shatter can give me 8-10 nice hits for a similar load. I'm also aware of how the RTA market is rapidly improving alongside us, even though I don't vape any non-kushy products. Once I found of alot of vape companies are making ceramic coil heads, I figure I'd give it a try. My eleaf picos came with a good tank already that I wasn't using.

Check it out here if you're interested. I'm pretty happy with these. I don't consider them my front-line service vapes like my DT 2.5 donuts, but they sure come in handy with not having to reload for long periods, and the vape quality is great (but donuts still better I think)

Sorry, kinda tangential, but relates to ceramics and temp control, so not so much

fernand · May 30, 2016

I see we have some new people. Welcome! Just a word or two about applying e-juice technology to concentrates (been there, done that).

All of the e-cig technology relies on wicking to carry e-juice to the coil. E-juice is water-miscible. Oils don't wick the same. Some people say they don't wick "worth a damn". Which is how we all got here.

We went from disposables and tanks using thinned oils (like most carts you can buy at dispensaries), to RDAs with minimal wicks (there's a big One Hitter Quitter thread), to the donuts, which have no wick at all and work best (so far).

As to that prehistoric phase of thinning oil enough to make it wick, VG with PG does not work "worth a damn". VG is just water-miscible, PG is half way. So they separate after a while, which makes a mess if it's inside a wicking setup.

Here's some wax (1) with 2-3 drops of PG added (on the right) and EJ-Mix on the left. After stirring and slightly warming both look fully dissolved (2). 24 hours later the PG solution has started to re-separate (3). The EJ-Mix is looking OK. It's a proprietary blend of glycols that actually manages to keep wax/oil suspended (if not dissolved). It tastes no worse than PG, which isn't saying much, but hey ...

Some people are trying various terpenes to thin oils to get around the taste of glycols. That sounds "natural" because of the terpenes in cannabis, but it's misleading IMHO because some of these terpenes are present in trace amounts in cannabis oil, just enough for a whiff, but if used in gigantic amounts, say as a carrier, there can be real toxicity issues. At least the glycols have been inhaled for a while, people aren't dropping dead. I doubt we'd be OK inhaling terpentine.

So, that's why we're all here, to figure out the best technology to vaporize unadulterated cannabis oils. A tank that works with oils is bound to happen, but preferably not by going back to thinners.

FWIW I was using KangerTech Mini ProTank 2s with unthinned oils, or with at most a couple drops of EJMix per ml. The trick was warming the oil by starting at a couple of watts for 10 sec or more, and only going up to vaping wattage, say 8 watts, after the oil was liquid enough to be wicking better. Ortherwise the oil would burn and clog the head, and spoil the taste of the whole tank.

Vape Donkey 650 · May 30, 2016

fernand said:
All of the e-cig technology relies on wicking to carry e-juice to the coil. E-juice is water-miscible. Oils don't wick the same. Some people say they don't wick "worth a damn". Which is how we all got here.

We went from disposables and tanks using thinned oils (like most carts you can buy at dispensaries), to RDAs with minimal wicks (there's a big One Hitter Quitter thread), to the donuts, which have no wick at all and work best (so far).

Yes, I'd agree with that too. Only downside is the much smaller carrying capacity, which is an issue, but a workable one for me. And we've gone over best techniques and gear for carrying reloads on the road, and we've seen some good ideas. I generally try to avoid it because I hate seeing my container of crumble turn to sticky wax, but i do it when it needs to be done. Camping season is coming up...

fernand said:
Some people are trying various terpenes to thin oils to get around the taste of glycols. That sounds "natural" because of the terpenes in cannabis, but it's misleading IMHO because some of these terpenes are present in trace amounts in cannabis oil, just enough for a whiff, but if used in gigantic amounts, say as a carrier, there can be real toxicity issues. At least the glycols have been inhaled for a while, people aren't dropping dead. I doubt we'd be OK inhaling terpentine.

So, that's why we're all here, to figure out the best technology to vaporize unadulterated cannabis oils.

Yup, that's key for me too. I don't want any thinners or mixers or added ingredients. I found out I'm allergic to all those glycerins and mixers anyways. :shrug:

But I have had success with the co2 oil and the vaporesso coils. From that other thread I'm seeing all sorts of experiments and projects with mixers and various ingredients, which is fine for those guys, but I'm looking at it more from a vape-gear perspective, and which kind of unadulterated concentrates work well with which particular RTAs and coil heads. For me, vaping pure BHO on this type of gear would be a distant dream, and I don't really aspire to it. I'm just fine breaking off shards of shatter and placing them one the donut 1 at a time. :nod:

The pure co2 certainly doesn't wick as good as the thinned stuff, but it works. And I just started another tank that i thought was co2 oil but actually is a nicer alcohol extract (not simpson oil) This has happened to me many times when trying to procure co2 :bang:

It's actually thinner and is wicking nicely, but its strain is "sativa blend" :suspicious:

and it's suspiciously flavorful and terpy...almost too much? Could be added, gettin me super stoney with the flavor... :razz:

Divine Tribe atty's

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All vape, no smoke please.

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