Discontinued Zion vaporizer

I texted with him a few times in the past week or so too, as far as I can tell he is just working hard getting things together. I know how long it can take to craft a carefully worded update, even a post here can take a while, so I can understand procrastinating that when there is work to be done. Unknown waiting sucks, but nothing ultimately changes as each day goes by, I don't believe there is any cause for concern, or any real benefit to expressing it, but impatience is justified of course

Shit Snacks said:

I texted with him a few times in the past week or so too, as far as I can tell he is just working hard getting things together. I know how long it can take to craft a carefully worded update, even a post here can take a while, so I can understand procrastinating that when there is work to be done. Unknown waiting sucks, but nothing ultimately changes as each day goes by, I don't believe there is any cause for concern, or any real benefit to expressing it, but impatience is justified of course

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You light up my world.

I always forget I have one of these ordered as I wait for the Milaana lol

Shit Snacks said:

.... but impatience is justified of course

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Impatience is justified, but still in the eye of the beholder. I don't worry so much about it. I know it will be here when it gets here. And, probably not sooner. Kind of would like to know when, but that's not going to make it any sooner either. Not likely I'm going to quit vaping in the meantime, so then will be just fine.

Nothing new to report here. Zion still my daily driver..typically used dry with two screens and no hemp fiber these days. Batterys switched every 6 bowls or so to be safe.

I just love being able to walk around the house or yard for the day while taking hits on demand. No worries about battery life. Stir stick and everything on board.

Mi gets used and i really like it but next to big sister Zion it gets most of its work in travel duty. Cheers.

There is a section on the RBT site called "Failure Anaysis". I will quote it here.
This seems to answer all questions except, when?
http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/failure-analysis
"Failure analysis - Reliability growth is a crucial function at the time of initial product launch. As a product transitions from prototype production changes in design and manufacturing process can induce failures. The initial production often times uncovers issues not uncovered in the limited number of prototypes build. We utilize an 8D problem solving method used in the automotive industry to ensure we find root cause and validate corrective actions preventing future repeat failures. The failures experienced to date with a description of the failure analysis / resolution.

Loose Magnets - Magnets can come loose from the battery cover door. The root cause is insufficient surface area and lack of adhesion to the magnets. This issue was addressed by sanding the surfaces of the magnets and cleaning with IPA prior to assembly. Initial results where positive but only a few units have been completed with this change. After the initial 50 units the holes in the battery door will be machined to increase the glue surface area. If problems still exist after the first 50 units weaker magnets and/or different adhesives will be tested. For users that experience the failure in the field a small drop of instant adhesive can be applied in the hole in the door and the magnet can be reinserted.

Shipping Damage - A small fraction of units shipped experienced broken stems and a small amount of sawdust being dislodged from the cap. Packaging for shipping and cleaning of any sawdust in the cap will be instituted in future shipments. For any stems that are reported within 3 days of the units arrival will be replaced.
Frozen Voltage Control Knob - Several of the initial units had the voltage control knob stuck in the low position. This was caused by a change in epoxy and lack of process control causing it to leak into the voltage control potentiometer. This was not discovered in final test as it was not fully cured yet. The epoxy set-up during shipping causing the voltage control knob to freeze. We will be returning to the original epoxy for all future units.
Failure of Heater Negative Connection - To improve the design for manufacturing two wires used on the Beta units was consolidated into one. This caused a strain on the heaters negative connection that caused a failure due to shipping vibration. The original two wire configuration will be reinstated in all future units to alleviate the issue. The use of a printed circuit board will be investigated to reduce the number of soldered connections to increase the reliability of the Zion electronics.
Loose Heater Glass - A high temperature medical grade 2-part epoxy was used in the production units. Since the temperature of the joint never exceeds 150 degrees F and is not in the flow path, early units used standard two part epoxy. The change to the FDA approved medical grade epoxy and lack of process control caused the joint to have insufficient strength. This was in large part due to the epoxy was thin. In future units, a similar medical grade epoxy will be used that is a gel that will improve the bond strength. This issue will be resolved with units shipping starting 3/7."

Right, this confirms what I remember Ryan told us about @Madcap79's unit failure: the heater got damaged during transport, creating a short. This short in turn made the regulator chip (in the upper part) blow up, producing the magic smoke which had no way to escape because the upper compartment is now sealed, so the only gap left was the trigger button itself...

Hence "smoke came out of the button".

I'm being Devil's advocate here, but we can agree that it's the proof that the electronics are properly isolated from the vapor path in this vape! ^ ^

KeroZen said:

Right, this confirms what I remember Ryan told us about @Madcap79's unit failure: the heater got damaged during transport, creating a short. This short in turn made the regulator chip (in the upper part) blow up, producing the magic smoke which had no way to escape because the upper compartment is now sealed, so the only gap left was the trigger button itself...

Hence "smoke came out of the button".

I'm being Devil's advocate here, but we can agree that it's the proof that the electronics are properly isolated from the vapor path in this vape! ^ ^

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The smoke out of mine wasn't from shipping damage. It was from poor battery connections. The two spring ends don't spring back into place and this makes the battery connection loose. The real failure on mine was the control knob being frozen.

Well IIRC you mentionned smoke coming out of the button? I already had loose connection on the tabs and the result was that the device didn't heat up. I just manually bent the tabs into place and the problem was solved.

The knob was indeed a different issue with the new glue being too fluid and leaking in the pot below.

I really need to stay away from this and the Milaana thread. I feel that I've been more than patient. And I know that RBT needs to get the Milaana's out to bring in some money since this is now his main source of income. I still think that he has broken trust with 3 of us by not fixing and returning our Zions- which were under warranty. For people who compare him with Triihouse- that never happened with him.

KeroZen said:

Well IIRC you mentionned smoke coming out of the button? I already had loose connection on the tabs and the result was that the device didn't heat up. I just manually bent the tabs into place and the problem was solved.

The knob was indeed a different issue with the new glue being too fluid and leaking in the pot below.

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Yes it did but the batteries had a slight connection with the springs. Must have arced somehow. After I bent the springs back, it never happened again. The heater would heat. I know this because I could feel heat while inhaling and the body got warm. It's funny, because out of everything, the springs not returning to their original form is the most disappointing. I mean, how do you just let that go? There has to be a better solution.

Just FYI: This is what interfered with the 3 zions that needed repair:

I had all three returns built and then I had a report from Stickstones his knob came off... So I rough handled the knobs on the ones I built and I managed to loosen one. This is poor quality and is unacceptable so I am redesigning the knob / potentiometer assembly. I am adding a stainless steel bushing to improve the strength of the assembly as well as improve the centering of the knob. Some units the knob rubbed on the wood and again this is not a level of quality that is worthy of Zion customers. I want the knob to feel like a high end stereo volume knob from the 80s lol. I estimate I will get parts early next week and now that I am RBT full time I should have your unit back to you by week end.

little maggie said:

Just FYI: This is what interfered with the 3 zions that needed repair:

I had all three returns built and then I had a report from Stickstones his knob came off... So I rough handled the knobs on the ones I built and I managed to loosen one. This is poor quality and is unacceptable so I am redesigning the knob / potentiometer assembly. I am adding a stainless steel bushing to improve the strength of the assembly as well as improve the centering of the knob. Some units the knob rubbed on the wood and again this is not a level of quality that is worthy of Zion customers. I want the knob to feel like a high end stereo volume knob from the 80s lol. I estimate I will get parts early next week and now that I am RBT full time I should have your unit back to you by week end.

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I was told almost the same thing on 03/16. EXCEPT the last sentence. We shall see.

Madcap79 said:

. It's funny, because out of everything, the springs not returning to their original form is the most disappointing. I mean, how do you just let that go? There has to be a better solution.

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Yeah that is an odd failure that shouldn't happen, mine have held up fine through much use, never had an issue with them getting stuck, seems most other users have been fine as well. Hopefully that is another point of QC that is being addressed before production resumes. The latest update from @little maggie does seem promising but I guess we'll see... Glad you guys are getting some info at least

Madcap79 said:

I was told almost the same thing on 03/16. EXCEPT the last sentence. We shall see.

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Mine was also received on 3/11

"I want the knob to feel like a high end stereo volume knob from the 80s"

I have a couple of these and they are squishy and grippy.

https://www.adafruit.com/products/2056



What is neat is that the band covers the screw that secures it.

+1 for a machined knob.

No knob problems here!
And my knob has been known to be handled rough from time to time.

jojo monkey said:

"I want the knob to feel like a high end stereo volume knob from the 80s"

I have a couple of these and they are squishy and grippy.

https://www.adafruit.com/products/2056

What is neat is that the band covers the screw that secures it.

+1 for a machined knob.

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Problem is the bodies have all been bored for the existing knob.
So size, in this case, does matter.
My guess is, that's the hold up, finding a suitable knob that fits the same diameter and possibly depth hole.

http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/zion-progress

He updated ...

"
Zion Update

While fixing the three returned Zions another failure mode was discovered. The Voltage control knob became disengaged from the potentiometer. Several fixes being evaluated / tested and initial results are promising. Delay's are also being experienced with the fabrication of electrical assemblies and wooden bodies. Current estimates predict that Zion shipments will resume in May.




Milaana Update

100% of manufacturing processes are in place at the new factory. 85% of the work instructions are complete with 70% of the workforce trained. The initial 40 production units are 80% of the way through final assembly and test. Several hundred units are moving through various parts of the manufacturing and assembly process. Units are scheduled to start shipping in early April with current backlog predicted to be shipped by mid May."

Existing Customer
When will my unit Zion ship? The Zion pre-orders are predicted to ship to the following schedule with 80% confidence

Ordered May/June 2015 - Shipping in May

Ordered July/August 2015 - Shipping in June

Ordered Sept/Oct 2015 - Shipping in July
Ordered Jan/Feb 2015 - Shipping in July

When will my unit Milaana ship? The Milaana pre-orders are predicted to ship to the following schedule with 80% confidence

All pre-orders Shipping in April

"Next Day Shipping" capability planned in late May

3 months away
Almost a year late
Almost as bad as the grasshopper
Really annoyed he never got back to about including mileena with my Zion but fuck I can see why
Refund requested

AJS said:

http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/zion-progress

He updated ...

"
Zion Update

While fixing the three returned Zions another failure mode was discovered. The Voltage control knob became disengaged from the potentiometer. Several fixes being evaluated / tested and initial results are promising. Delay's are also being experienced with the fabrication of electrical assemblies and wooden bodies. Current estimates predict that Zion shipments will resume in May.




Milaana Update

100% of manufacturing processes are in place at the new factory. 85% of the work instructions are complete with 70% of the workforce trained. The initial 40 production units are 80% of the way through final assembly and test. Several hundred units are moving through various parts of the manufacturing and assembly process. Units are scheduled to start shipping in early April with current backlog predicted to be shipped by mid May."

Existing Customer
When will my unit Zion ship? The Zion pre-orders are predicted to ship to the following schedule with 80% confidence

Ordered May/June 2015 - Shipping in May

Ordered July/August 2015 - Shipping in June

Ordered Sept/Oct 2015 - Shipping in July
Ordered Jan/Feb 2015 - Shipping in July

When will my unit Milaana ship? The Milaana pre-orders are predicted to ship to the following schedule with 80% confidence

All pre-orders Shipping in April

"Next Day Shipping" capability planned in late May

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I am very tempted to start talking like this... Percentag-y!!!! I just love this last update!!! RBT FTW!!!!

little maggie said:

Just FYI: This is what interfered with the 3 zions that needed repair:

I had all three returns built and then I had a report from Stickstones his knob came off... So I rough handled the knobs on the ones I built and I managed to loosen one. This is poor quality and is unacceptable so I am redesigning the knob / potentiometer assembly. I am adding a stainless steel bushing to improve the strength of the assembly as well as improve the centering of the knob. Some units the knob rubbed on the wood and again this is not a level of quality that is worthy of Zion customers. I want the knob to feel like a high end stereo volume knob from the 80s lol. I estimate I will get parts early next week and now that I am RBT full time I should have your unit back to you by week end.

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We have this rule:

• Do not post the contents of private conversations without permission from all parties involved.

We've had reports this this post breaks the rule. It does not, since I know that @RastaBuddhaTao has specifically told me that any emails he sends to anyone can be shared.

I'd also like to add that the rule exists to prevent the use of private communications to embarrass someone, therefore if we feel that permission would be granted anyway, we are inclined to allow the post.

peterpiper said:

3 months away
Almost a year late
Almost as bad as the grasshopper
Really annoyed he never got back to about including mileena with my Zion but fuck I can see why
Refund requested

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Totally respect your choice, tho I don't think we're that close to Grasshopper territory, they took 2 years to bring a "production-ready" design to half their paid customers while saying "almost there!" the whole time. RBT has always been in development, and very transparent, also intermittently bad at customer service. Even w great customer service, development is not for everybody, there will be retail.

Really like the update, especially if you read it in the voice of Bernie Sanders. Some interesting detail, can't/shouldn't please everybody, work continues, as it should be.

(Hits clicker on Grasshopper, aaaahhh, waiting isn't so bad...)

hippogriff said:

Totally respect your choice, tho I don't think we're that close to Grasshopper territory, they took 2 years to bring a "production-ready" design to half their paid customers while saying "almost there!" the whole time. RBT has always been in development, and very transparent, also intermittently bad at customer service. Even w great customer service, development is not for everybody, there will be retail.

Really like the update, especially if you read it in the voice of Bernie Sanders. Some interesting detail, can't/shouldn't please everybody, work continues, as it should be.

(Hits clicker on Grasshopper, aaaahhh, waiting isn't so bad...)

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The hopper is a much more sophisticated vape. Everything is custom made with proper temp control. Not in the same league design wise.

hippogriff said:

(Hits clicker on Grasshopper, aaaahhh, waiting isn't so bad...)

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Wooooow, you would pull that card
*hits mflb* waiting still pretty bad...
*rips lsv* ... what was I waiting for?

Hope the Zion issues get figured out soon enough. Glad the update let us know what's going on!

I know i always drop in here with sugary sweet good vibes, probably coming off like a hippie in a field singing "this is the dawning of the age of aquarius" followed with a rousing rendition of 'kumbaya my lord' and a group hug, but i thought this tidbit from @RBT (via @little maggie) was particularly interesting,

little maggie said:

I had all three returns built and then I had a report from Stickstones his knob came off... So I rough handled the knobs on the ones I built and I managed to loosen one. This is poor quality and is unacceptable so I am redesigning the knob / potentiometer assembly. I am adding a stainless steel bushing to improve the strength of the assembly as well as improve the centering of the knob.

Click to expand...

So we have fully working units with no issues (but potential ones) which are now to be redesigned and retrofitted with better quality parts. I am sure many manufacturers would just send these out anyway and then impliment the fix in future models (and nothing really wrong with that but it puts some of the costs/difficulties onto the customer).

I am sure many of us would treat our Zions with care so this may never be an issue for many, but i like the attention to detail and as i have said before, i appreciate that (with the longer initial wait) i will likely get a unit which is the best it can be and much less likely to require international postage costs and wait times on a faulty unit requiring a return.

And again, at risk of being considered a sycophant i suppose, i feel this model was clearly stated in the early stages and was a major reason that i pre ordered, which for me is the first time i have pre ordered anything.

Happy waiting everyone...

.....now hold hands....ready...

...Kumbuya, my lord.......

little maggie said:

...then I had a report from Stickstones his knob came off...

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Oh Jesus! That sounds INCREDIBLY painful! Is he going to be okay!?



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