Monsoon
Well-Known Member
Try purging on a heatpad or something similar and purge for minimum 1 day. An hour isn't nearly enough as you've seen.
Concentrates for Noobs - Q&A
- Thread starter FlyingLow
- Start date
Thanks will definitely do that. I had done a couple of runs in the past month that resulted in some beautiful concentrate. Only thing I did different was blasting into warm pyrex and starting it at a higher temp. Thanks for the reply man. I will definitely keep purging. I think I began the decarboxylation process with one batch. I had the heat up to 180. Is there a temperature I should stick to to ensure I don't decarb it?
Monsoon
Well-Known Member
Get an infrared/laser temp gun from Amazon for $15 so you can get an exact temp from the pyrex. Ideally your oil probably shouldn't be higher than 120F to preserve your terps while still being high enough to purge out the solvent. Decarb is higher but close to that temp you're going to have some tasteless oil.
Hello,
another concentrate noob here.
Regarding your comment I have some questions.
- Which one of these different extraction methods will make the best tasting concentrate? Which method is the most efficient, will pull out most of the ingredients?
- So far I have only experience with alcohol extraction. Next week I do another QWET. I would like to make 2 different batches from the same flower. One for daytime where I like to have an uplifting clear high, and the other batch for the night which should bring me into a relaxed state for easy sleep. Can somebody advise how to do this?
- Before I did oil out of ABV. It didn't taste so good, but it was perfect for sleeping time. To improve the taste (or minimise the bad taste) would it help to water cure and/or winterize it?
Bad Ocelot
Well-Known Member
I'm a bit of a newb myself here as well, but i'm thinking do a first (and quicker) wash for the daytime clear high & a slightly longer 2nd & possibly 3rd wash for the sleepy time stuff. Also consider adding ABV to the 2nd/3rd wash for sleepiness. Someone please do correct me if I'm wrong. I've only done QWISO & rosin stuff myself so far, so definitely not an expert.
I'm about to try a QWET this week myself. I'm planning on using 95% EtOH that I keep in the freezer, agitating medium ground flower for lets say 42s or so, filtering, putting the EtOH cannabinoid solution back in the freezer for a few hours, filter again, then on the pyrex to evap. I'll probably just use coffee filters, but may get some 10 micron filters in the not too distant future if that'll improve the quality of the end product. Any thoughts on how to improve or streamline this process?
I'm also considering doing a butane extraction as my next project. I'm thinking blast into a mason jar, add room temp EtOH after the bulk of the butane has evaporated, stir until butane is gone, cap mason jar, into the freezer for 12-48hrs, filter, then evap. Both steps involving butane outdoors of course. Any problems with this plan?
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Monsoon
Well-Known Member
It's going to be hard to get the effects you want from a single strain, not even sure if you can get the uplifting high if you only have an indica to start. Sticking with ABV for relaxed effects might be the way to go. I think there's only so much you can do to improve ABV based oil. Adding terpenes like Pan's Ink could help with the taste and might be something to consider for modulating the effects to the way you want.
For winterizing it's generally 48 hours minimum in the freezer and most importantly the cold temp should be maintained while it's filtering or the waxes and fats will start to redissolve before it's filtered through. I believe you can shave that down to a few hours with dry ice. Just a few hours in the freezer won't do much good.
To streamline, a buchner funnel setup will give you finely filtered oil (slow filters are 2-5 micron) and allow you to filter a liter of solution in under 3 minutes. You can find them under under $100 so it's an easy low cost improvements. A vacuum purge setup costs a bit more but will make purging much easier and will improve the quality of your product. I wrote up a whole guide on making QWET recently here that details how I make it, you should be able to pick up a few things to integrate into your process.
Yes, I will do the extraction in this way. The bowl with the second wash will be placed in boiling water for a few hours, maybe like this it is possible to get more relaxing effects.
For the first wash I don't want to use much heat as I am looking to get the best flavour. Last time I barely used heat at all and after about 2 weeks the alcohol has fully purged at room temperature by itself.
The common strain here is some cheap bush weed - weak, harsh to vape and a bit more on the sativa side.
Additional jar curing does improve the taste for vaping - does it also effect the taste for the concentrate made out of it, or is curing not necessary for making oil?
With the ABV I will do an own extraction. Adding terpenes is a good idea. When I am back in Europe and have more easy access to such things I will def consider it.
For now I was thinking to throw in the QWET some other dried herbs like peppermint. Has anybody tried this? Will it affect the taste?
I remember that I read somewhere that for QWET the winterizing is not necessary and that winterizing does remove flavour. So I would only do this for the ABV stuff.
For filtering I use the Aeropress. First filter through a kitchen strainer into the Aeropress with a steel filter (Kaffeologie). Then another cleaning with a double layer from the paper filter. Only for the paper filters I have to use the plunge.
Bad Ocelot
Well-Known Member
Thanks! I actually checked out your guide before I posted. Impressive stuff! However I'm using such small quantities right now that many aspects weren't feasible or cost/benefit appropriate, ha. I've got the first wash in the freezer now, but since it's only ~40mL EtOH (in retrospect I probably could've gone with 25 or 30mL) that I'd used to wash 1.13g of ground flower I was thinking it'd probably stabilize & precipitate out the unwanteds sooner than a much larger volume would. I'll check it every 12h or so. It'll be late Friday night before I'm able to mess with it any further anyway, so it'll be in there at least 36h. I just keep my reclaim ISO in there so it's usually extra-winterized, ha.
For my small run setup I currently use a small plastic funnel with a mesh screen to separate the plant matter from the ethanol quickly, then a larger funnel with a coffee filter to get out the smaller particles and two 4oz mason jars, one for the extraction & one for storage/winterization. After the precipitate forms, I use the large funnel & coffee filter again & strain onto a small concave pyrex dish. For larger volumes I'll attach a coffee filter to the top of a 1qt mason jar & filter in the freezer, then just pour onto pyrex. If I want to speed up the evap I'll heat ~75mL of water in a ramekin or creme brulee dish until wisps of steam are rising, remove from the heat source & place the concave pyrex dish on top. I usually put a large mesh strainer over the top to prevent particles from falling in during evaporation. I'll use two ramekins in rotation so one is heating while the other is being used. After a couple hours of that while I do chores or watch tv I'll go to bed & it's usually dry in the morning. Not a sophisticated or high-end setup, but I think it's elegant in it's simplicity
. Also, I already had all that stuff in my house, so no purchase necessary 
Rare
Active Member
so i bought a "100 percent quartz" nail a little while ago, have been constantly using it and just on monday i got super sick. fever, chills, etc. all that stuff. im reading that shitty ass quartz nails can give you "metal fume fever" and im not rockin with that, so what are the chances of this being related? i paid dirt cheap for the nail so i might be dabbing on some fire fumes, but im genuinely scared. i mean, i understand that if i was using it for a while before this happened then its prolly not the case, but the symptoms seem too relative to what i have. but when youre freaking out about your health, it's always like that. whats the consensus fc?
pigfoot
Dabs are vapor too!
Link to the nail would be good, but the consensus is quartz is safe. Haven't seen any confirmed reports or real evidence to the contrary.
Bad Ocelot
Well-Known Member
I've done a fair amount of research on which materials are safe to evaporate various solvents on. Obviously butane on silicone is a no-no, but I haven't been able to determine if there is a consensus regarding EtOH or isopropanol on silicone. I've been using pyrex, but have used a no-goo plate on a couple of occasions and it's easier to deal with in most cases. Can anyone direct me to anything definitive regarding those two alcohols & silicone?
so I did a QWET run with leaves and stuff from bags,
pics of first run: http://imgur.com/a/dYN9o
Is melting it a good idea? The powder is nice in a convection vape but very hard to handle with the muad'dib. 1.2g btw
edit: http://imgur.com/a/LPBmx - in glass results of second run; green: first run scraped.
pics of first run: http://imgur.com/a/dYN9o
Is melting it a good idea? The powder is nice in a convection vape but very hard to handle with the muad'dib. 1.2g btw
edit: http://imgur.com/a/LPBmx - in glass results of second run; green: first run scraped.
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Monsoon
Well-Known Member
They're 100% compatible with silicone, should be no issues when using alcohols with it.
Whatever works for you.Is melting it a good idea? The powder is nice in a convection vape but very hard to handle with the muad'dib. 1.2g btw
Bad Ocelot
Well-Known Member
Thanks! From what I can gather polypropylene is a safe material for butane extraction, no?
Bad Ocelot
Well-Known Member
Thanks a bunch! That's quite the useful resource. I did notice EtOH had a less than perfect compatibility score so I may stick with glass for the QWET, but I'll probably try my next QWISO on silicone.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Remember that things change in a vacuum. I have linked in other threads where the largest silicone manufacturers themselves highlight that silicone will swell with non-polar solvents and decompose. This is also well known in various relevant disciplines of the scientific literature. The terpene compounds you are extracting are actually more likely to cause this problem than alcohol solvents! The terpier (better) your extract, the more you risk swelling with your silicone.
Remember as well that other compounds safe for contact with our chosen solvents at local barometric pressure may or may not be still safe in a vacuum and/or with heat applied!
IMO just stick to glass man - there's a reason that glass is used for these applications in labs around the world and scraping is really not that difficult!
Cuthbert J Twillie
Senior High
To BHO or not To BHO, maybe that isn't the question.
You say you've used the nail constantly, my question: are you using the same oil or did you try something new. If you're dabbing a BHO there is a very good chance it's the BHO making you sick, especially if someone else made it.
Unless your manufacturer is using pure butane there is a lot in there that you don't want and we can start with the known carcinogen, benzene.
Incidents of people getting sick off BHO are not unheard of so before you doubt your nail, check your oil.
This from a year old "BuzzFeed" article: "“We see stuff that is dripping with residual solvent. It’s running with it, literally dripping — more contaminants almost than product,” said University of California, Davis, analytical chemistry professor Don Land, who works with a major Northern California–based marijuana-testing lab called Steep Hill Laboratories."
My advice is Caveat emptor when it comes to concentrates.
Maybe it's not the nail maybe it's your dabs.
You say you've used the nail constantly, my question: are you using the same oil or did you try something new. If you're dabbing a BHO there is a very good chance it's the BHO making you sick, especially if someone else made it.
Unless your manufacturer is using pure butane there is a lot in there that you don't want and we can start with the known carcinogen, benzene.
Incidents of people getting sick off BHO are not unheard of so before you doubt your nail, check your oil.
This from a year old "BuzzFeed" article: "“We see stuff that is dripping with residual solvent. It’s running with it, literally dripping — more contaminants almost than product,” said University of California, Davis, analytical chemistry professor Don Land, who works with a major Northern California–based marijuana-testing lab called Steep Hill Laboratories."
My advice is Caveat emptor when it comes to concentrates.
Bad Ocelot
Well-Known Member
Definitely should've mentioned I'm not using a vacuum & these are very small runs to just get my process streamlined before doing larger (albeit still personal use size, 5-7g starting material max). I do wonder about those silicone storage containers though. Should we all be using glass if the terpenes degrade silicone in the long term?
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
This is some EXTREMELY sticky icky that came from the bottom of my tincture jar. The picture does not do it justice. I have a question, though. Would you vaporize this stuff in a vap pen? I'm drying it out as much as I can right now, and would not even attempt it unless all the alcohol is evaporated off. Or, would you just eat it? This stuff reminds me of Rick Simpson oil. Very dark, but still dark green, and made from ABV.
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amberevil
Well-Known Member
Just eat it. It will taste like shit in a vape pen. Mix it with some coconut oil first though for bioavailability.This is some EXTREMELY sticky icky that came from the bottom of my tincture jar. The picture does not do it justice. I have a question, though. Would you vaporize this stuff in a vap pen? I'm drying it out as much as I can right now, and would not even attempt it unless all the alcohol is evaporated off. Or, would you just eat it? This stuff reminds me of Rick Simpson oil. Very dark, but still dark green, and made from ABV.
I have used now this silicone pan:
http://www.dhgate.com/product/simple-round-silicone-cake-pan-oven-heat/230371366.html
Before the first use I gave them a good cleaning to remove any possible dirt from the tooling.
The pan does a good job for drying the alcohol. 0,5 l evaporated in less than 1 day. Then I just let it sit at room temperature for 1 week to purge.
Because the concentrate layer in the pan is so thin I still had to scrap the stuff out, but it was easy work.
Yesterday I have tried the first dab and I couldn't taste anything from the silicone.
If I had larger quantities, I would store the concentrate in the freezer.
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
pigfoot
Dabs are vapor too!
I'd say skip the Ti, there are better materials available. Quartz bangers are very popular. Nice dense hit, great taste and low price. This seller has a good reputation, here's a basic 3mm thick banger - excellent.
The Chinese "OFZ" style carb caps don't work very well IMHO. These are much better, if a little heavy.
If I was going to get another one, I would try one of these. No special carb cap needed.