New Portable H Enail with built in glass bubbler by Green Light Vapes
- Thread starter mrbonsai420
- Start date
b0
Cloudy...
SamuraiSam
Extraction Technician
I wish I could take credit, but it was a Reddit vaporist name of /u/tamag21 that made this discovery, sacrificed his unit, and shared it with the world. My only goal is share this knowledge so that people interested in using this unit are aware of what it actually is, and what its dangers are. Health hazards from inhaling vapors released from melting PTFE and heated solder are serious and real, and I promise that I did not share this information in some weird desire to profit from it.
I am a vaporist first, employee second. I have bought products from many companies, enjoy, and use many of them on a regular basis. If I owned this product I would want to know what is inside it. If I were considering purchasing one I'd want to know what it's made out of.
There are a ton of nice quality herbal vaporizers with care paid to the materials used in their construction and a high degree of engineering and safety used. It would be nice to see more of that applied to concentrate devices, too.
mod note: Your posts on another manufacturer's product are in violation of the rules you agreed to when you were approved as a commercial poster. Negative posts on a competitor's products are never OK, regardless of the situation.
ru_frothi
Portable Vaporist
So why is the teflon melting.... please.... Nice to know to never buy a product from @VapeFiend.....
So that mass that used to be teflon that no longer exists just magically disapeared. It didn't create fumes... Science denier vaporists, just what we need.
anasrzi
Well-Known Member
Don't think there's anything wrong with the Dabbie from @VapeFiend.com @ru_frothi he says it's been tested for fuming at temps it should never get to in the first place (above 340c as stated the nail itself never hits above 304c) so you have a good number of degrees between the two, more still it's stated for over ten minutes of heating, Dabbie is generally used for less than a minute, I can easily say I hit mine for less than 30 seconds all in.
So I wouldn't be overly worried but I understand the concerns, I for one will be interested to see the Dabbie pro model coming soon, I wonder if there will be a upgrade kit of sorts that can be sent out to replace those who wish to swap from the Teflon to ceramic. I'm defiantly getting a ceramic nail when they come out either on it own or if there's a kit.
Bare in mind the minivap originals used Teflon at that's a medical grade device. If boils down to how concerned you are, vapefiend does heavily test his stuff before selling them out so for me I'm not concerned health wise. Plenty of things go into our systems everyday that shouldn't.
So I wouldn't be overly worried but I understand the concerns, I for one will be interested to see the Dabbie pro model coming soon, I wonder if there will be a upgrade kit of sorts that can be sent out to replace those who wish to swap from the Teflon to ceramic. I'm defiantly getting a ceramic nail when they come out either on it own or if there's a kit.
Bare in mind the minivap originals used Teflon at that's a medical grade device. If boils down to how concerned you are, vapefiend does heavily test his stuff before selling them out so for me I'm not concerned health wise. Plenty of things go into our systems everyday that shouldn't.
SamuraiSam
Extraction Technician
I apologize for missing the part where being approved as a customer service representative means I need to disregard the health of this community. I promise that I won't alert Fuck Combustion to products that have sent multiple people to hospital ever again. I do understand material safety discussions have been frowned upon in threads here in the past.
Anyone interested in discussing material safety of any vaporizer is welcome to join us on Hash Church 9 am PST each Sunday at https://www.youtube.com/user/BCbubbleman/ . There is a live chat on Youtube, and everyone is welcome to come by and share knowledge live on air.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Sam may work for another manufacturer, but I do not. That degraded teflon, the solder, the glue - all of it is unacceptable.
This is not company bashing and I would approach any other product that used unsafe materials just as emphatically as I do this one. There has to be a line drawn when patently unsafe materials are used in a product. We don't need to do anything immature like name call or company bash but we can certainly say that based on all of the best materials safety data available, nobody should be inhaling off of anything with these materials used in this fashion. It wouldn't matter if it was some unknown Chinese vendor, Storz & Bickel, Errlectric, D-nail or an Arizer product.
The Cloud V variant may yet be safe though. I do hope that the story provided earlier regarding that product was true and that the dangerous ones are just bad knock-offs. This form factor is something that I could really see becoming a mainstay in years to come.
With a ceramic nail instead of ti (I mean hell even ti will be good while there's no other options!), a smaller base and smaller, pnwt sized/quality bubbler and we'd have a no-brainer portable concentrate tool here! Even at the current specs, take away the causes for safety concerns and this will be a great product for a lot of situations where even a ninja nail or something similar is not gonna be practical to set up and use.
It's good to see better versions on the horizon - I might end up owning something like this yet!
This is not company bashing and I would approach any other product that used unsafe materials just as emphatically as I do this one. There has to be a line drawn when patently unsafe materials are used in a product. We don't need to do anything immature like name call or company bash but we can certainly say that based on all of the best materials safety data available, nobody should be inhaling off of anything with these materials used in this fashion. It wouldn't matter if it was some unknown Chinese vendor, Storz & Bickel, Errlectric, D-nail or an Arizer product.
The Cloud V variant may yet be safe though. I do hope that the story provided earlier regarding that product was true and that the dangerous ones are just bad knock-offs. This form factor is something that I could really see becoming a mainstay in years to come.
With a ceramic nail instead of ti (I mean hell even ti will be good while there's no other options!), a smaller base and smaller, pnwt sized/quality bubbler and we'd have a no-brainer portable concentrate tool here! Even at the current specs, take away the causes for safety concerns and this will be a great product for a lot of situations where even a ninja nail or something similar is not gonna be practical to set up and use.
It's good to see better versions on the horizon - I might end up owning something like this yet!
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I got one from greenlight months ago and was immediately concerned about the materials being used. My unit has been used maybe 10 times in total, it had a funky taste from the get go which made me even more weary. Iv spoken with the Amy at green light who gave me some basic information insisting not to worry. But would ignore my questions about its build and if its really safe. I took that as a sign to write the product off and to recommend against using it to people i know who were interested in it.
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
Not that anyone's going to care about my opinion, but you're getting it anyway!
I was thinking of getting one of these devices, so I'm eternally grateful to SamuraiSam for alerting me to what might be a problem, cheers man
I do believe that FC mods are obliged to point out wherever FC rules have been violated, and technically they were (IMO).
Again though, sometimes breaking rules is the right thing to do, and I'm glad that SamuraiSam did so in this case.
Note that the mod didn't remove Sam's post, and I would hope that they wouldn't in a case like this where serious health concerns may be an issue.
I too hope that a revised design with safer materials emerges, as there's lots to like here, but burning Teflon isn't likeable at all.
And damn if I haven't just broken at least two rules in this post!
Screw it! It's the right thing to do
I was thinking of getting one of these devices, so I'm eternally grateful to SamuraiSam for alerting me to what might be a problem, cheers man
I do believe that FC mods are obliged to point out wherever FC rules have been violated, and technically they were (IMO).
Again though, sometimes breaking rules is the right thing to do, and I'm glad that SamuraiSam did so in this case.
Note that the mod didn't remove Sam's post, and I would hope that they wouldn't in a case like this where serious health concerns may be an issue.
I too hope that a revised design with safer materials emerges, as there's lots to like here, but burning Teflon isn't likeable at all.
And damn if I haven't just broken at least two rules in this post!
Screw it! It's the right thing to do
max
Out to lunch
It'll never be the right thing to do on this forum, and it's common sense, assuming you've read the rules, which he obviously didn't (member or manuf. rules), that the thing to do is contact any staff member (or all of us for that matter) about the issue. The member rules clearly spell out that materials safety discussion is not to be done in a vape thread, but in General Vaporization. If we weren't about safety and health foremost, we wouldn't be doing the FC forum thing in the first place, so we're certainly not going to bury a safety issue for any manufacturer, as long time members will attest. Other posters in the thread could also have been contacted via PM in order to pass on any concerns or warnings without breaking the rules.
zikzak
Well-Known Member
Sorry to ask for clarification, but after having skimmed the member rules... it seems it is fine to post a link in a vape thread (such as this one) over to a safety/hazard discussion thread about said product that's on a different forum or in the appropriate place on this one.
If that's the case, is there any issue with delving the safety / hazard related posts in this thread over to it's own thread in General Vaporization? Thus the discussion can continue and build of what exists here (also cleaning this thread up to abide to the rules as they stand).
Apologies if I'm poking my head into something I shouldn't be...just throwing out what came to mind.
Copacetic
Somewhere North of The Wall
Well, I confess that I don't look at or follow any of the material science /safety threads and would therefore have missed all this and potentially bought one of these devices, exposing myself to risks which I would be very unhappy about.
I MIGHT have followed a link to another location if one had existed, but I might not have realised the importance of this information, and just carried on reading here.
So I remain grateful to SamuraiSam for the info.
Again, I was going to buy one of these devices, so I'll be delighted if they prove to be safe in the end (or change to materials which are definitely safe)
I MIGHT have followed a link to another location if one had existed, but I might not have realised the importance of this information, and just carried on reading here.
So I remain grateful to SamuraiSam for the info.
Again, I was going to buy one of these devices, so I'll be delighted if they prove to be safe in the end (or change to materials which are definitely safe)
zikzak
Well-Known Member
I'm one who owns this device and I had it for about 2 wks (casual after work use, three to 4 hits a night) until experiencing an odd odor that was not there when first using the device. My H-ENAIL (green light ver but from edabsdirect) is starting to get the charred look around the ceramic heating element / nail seating. I notice the same odd smell when not vaping extracts..with a thoroughly cleaned / IPA'd nail.
This signals to me that all things pointed out by others previously are probably true to a certain degree, but others can judge for themselves. I stopped immediately using the device after my own observations and it's beyond coincidence to see this being brought up.
Yes, I should have cleaned the residual off, but I'm in a rush out the door... def not the same degree of usage as seen on the reddit post, but I did not like the funky odor being given off (and making a variety of types taste the same imo).
This signals to me that all things pointed out by others previously are probably true to a certain degree, but others can judge for themselves. I stopped immediately using the device after my own observations and it's beyond coincidence to see this being brought up.
Yes, I should have cleaned the residual off, but I'm in a rush out the door... def not the same degree of usage as seen on the reddit post, but I did not like the funky odor being given off (and making a variety of types taste the same imo).
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max
Out to lunch
It's not that you can't mention a safety issue in a vape thread at all. You just can't discuss it/argue it in the vape thread, since in some cases there are insufficient facts to end the 'discussion', and it ends up in an endless argument that can't be resolved. The thread can be hijacked by the discussion and the product's rep can be damaged, sometimes unfairly. If you read the rules, the material safety topic is made clear, and if there are questions, staff can be contacted via conversation just like any other forum member. We can also be notified of issues by reporting a post. We don't penalize members for reporting an issue that needs to be addressed just because the post isn't a rules violation. While we'll never be able to classify every product out there as safe or unsafe, we have no problem warning people about products that may be hazardous to use. The other thing to keep in mind is that any product in the 'upcoming and unreleased' section may never get a vape thread here for a number of reasons. We may well end up adding some kind of warning to these sections to make it clear that the products should be approached with caution. If you're going to jump on every new cheap product that comes along in this market, you're asking for trouble. While we don't tolerate people condemning everything made in China as garbage or dangerous (because it's just not true), it's well documented that some companies in China and other countries with few safety regulations, have produced products that are not safe, from toys to wallboard.
The other issue is a manufacturer rep posting on another product/company thread. Commercial members don't have the same posting privileges as regular members, and we don't care whether there are competing products involved or not. In general vape makers should stick to their own threads, since at the least, in many cases, a rep is advertising with every post, due to links/advertising allowed in profile and signature.
I haven't been using mine as much since getting my Haze for Christmas but I guess using the preload method I did I ran mine cooler than those with melting issues. I haven't had any darkening or off gassing at all but I don't do more than a few heat cycles at a time. I may still use mine occasionally but I will be careful not to overheat it. Thanks for the warning.
If any of you are experiencing off gassing and bubbling PTFE I WOULD NOT USE IT LIKE THAT. I don't know how many heating cycles it would take to make it bubble but I don't suggest you find out. Use it for a few heating cycles and let it cool for 30 seconds until the next dab. If used like this there is very little charring at all on the PTFE. I agree that for people using it at extremely high temps the material used needs to be changed. And for those of us that have them we should keep the temps relatively low knowing the melting point of the materials used.
I still think PTFE is still safe to use AT REASONABLE TEMPS just like I think my old School Underdog Silicone Stems are safe to use. Put too much heat to either one and it will make some awful fumes (like a torch, not the underdog), use them within reason and they work pretty well. Maybe PTFE isn't the best material for high temp dabbing and the cap should be redesigned for those high temp users. Early adopters should use this well below the PTFE melting points please!
Also I am no scientist (IT Director) but I read posts about "Polymer Flu" that had me thinking. I know I have never experienced anything like this using any of my Silicone or PTFE stuff but I will definitely watch my temps more closely now!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever
All this talk about it makes me want to pull this thing out and play with it!
While It should be making me want to put it on the shelf! I promise to be careful not to overheat it 
OK, This is off topic but...
What about your Evo? I was about to buy one and I LOVE my concentrates. How do you like the Vapexnails?
Not that I need a better concentrate device. I got to try a VB2.0 last weekend and while it was INCREDIBLE I still like my Enail setup with a Liger V2.0 and a SiC dish better. So my Evo if I get it will be mostly for flower, BUT how do you like it for concentrates?
If any of you are experiencing off gassing and bubbling PTFE I WOULD NOT USE IT LIKE THAT. I don't know how many heating cycles it would take to make it bubble but I don't suggest you find out. Use it for a few heating cycles and let it cool for 30 seconds until the next dab. If used like this there is very little charring at all on the PTFE. I agree that for people using it at extremely high temps the material used needs to be changed. And for those of us that have them we should keep the temps relatively low knowing the melting point of the materials used.
I still think PTFE is still safe to use AT REASONABLE TEMPS just like I think my old School Underdog Silicone Stems are safe to use. Put too much heat to either one and it will make some awful fumes (like a torch, not the underdog), use them within reason and they work pretty well. Maybe PTFE isn't the best material for high temp dabbing and the cap should be redesigned for those high temp users. Early adopters should use this well below the PTFE melting points please!
Also I am no scientist (IT Director) but I read posts about "Polymer Flu" that had me thinking. I know I have never experienced anything like this using any of my Silicone or PTFE stuff but I will definitely watch my temps more closely now!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever
All this talk about it makes me want to pull this thing out and play with it!
While It should be making me want to put it on the shelf! I promise to be careful not to overheat it OK, This is off topic but...
What about your Evo? I was about to buy one and I LOVE my concentrates. How do you like the Vapexnails?
Not that I need a better concentrate device. I got to try a VB2.0 last weekend and while it was INCREDIBLE I still like my Enail setup with a Liger V2.0 and a SiC dish better. So my Evo if I get it will be mostly for flower, BUT how do you like it for concentrates?
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salivape
Well-Known Member
At this point I don't think it would be wise to recommend any of them. If this had been bought up just a week earlier I wouldn't have gone near it until more tests were done.
I also hope there's an upgrade part. I love the performance of this thing but don't think I'll be buying a whole new unit.
IAmKrazy2
Darth Vapor
Thanks. Got my first (off brand dhgate) nectar collector on the way. I usually only use water or bubble hash concentrates, but was gifted a bunch of good crumble for helping a friend, and looking for a good way to consume it. If the nectar collector doesnt hit the spot i will be back.
So it seems material usage concerns are the issue some seem to be concerned about and i don't blame you. Certainly important.
Chill Dude
Well-Known Member
It seems that Cloud V did their own R & D on the Cloud V Electro nail and is not a Chinese knock off. Am I right? Personally, I have no problem paying $50 or $60 dollars more for a quality product where the manufacturers specd out high quality materials for safety and functionality of the device.
I really believe that these portable e nails are going to become very popular. I like the fact that they are compact, don't require bulky cords, coils or numerous accessories. Does any FC member actually have one of these units yet? I'm very excited about the Cloud Electro!
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zikzak
Well-Known Member
That's what it seems like going off of what Cloud V is claiming via the Redband YT videos that show off both CloudV versions. Just seems like Cloud V held out for a manufacturer that could meet their needs --
However, pricing wise -- although health really has no cost... the DHGate ones were getting down to $65-70 a piece if you were willing to wait a week (or less sometimes). The CloudV options are around $250 IIRC... maybe I'm way off though.
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studmuffin
Well-Known Member
Greetings, I have been using my Greenlight G9 H-enail for a few months now. Here is my technique. It eliminates using the clumsy dabber tool, and minimizes the temperature build-up, and allows me to experience the true pleasure of the terpenes.
Forthwith, . . I pre-load the nail with 2 pieces of wax, each about the size of a lentil. I place the carb cap onto the glass piece. I initiate the heat cycle. Before the green light even comes on, there is vapor to be had. I take long slow draws until the green light (heat cycle) goes off. I immediately press the button 3 more times to start another heat cycle. Vapor clouds ! I continue to draw, until there is no more vapor production. Since I am drawing air into the device almost constantly, the nail never gets all that hot, allowing for wonderful low-temp dabs.
By the way, anything can be misused/abused, especially devices for getting stoned. I have read many fucking stupid techniques some people employ which are "way out of bounds". Many of these dimwits then use a forum to bitch about "failures". Guess what ? More than a few people have been murdered with a #2 pencil. Shall we pile-on and demonize the pencil ? ! ? !
Forthwith, . . I pre-load the nail with 2 pieces of wax, each about the size of a lentil. I place the carb cap onto the glass piece. I initiate the heat cycle. Before the green light even comes on, there is vapor to be had. I take long slow draws until the green light (heat cycle) goes off. I immediately press the button 3 more times to start another heat cycle. Vapor clouds ! I continue to draw, until there is no more vapor production. Since I am drawing air into the device almost constantly, the nail never gets all that hot, allowing for wonderful low-temp dabs.
By the way, anything can be misused/abused, especially devices for getting stoned. I have read many fucking stupid techniques some people employ which are "way out of bounds". Many of these dimwits then use a forum to bitch about "failures". Guess what ? More than a few people have been murdered with a #2 pencil. Shall we pile-on and demonize the pencil ? ! ? !
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
This shit is just not on.I'm one who owns this device and I had it for about 2 wks (casual after work use, three to 4 hits a night) until experiencing an odd odor that was not there when first using the device. My H-ENAIL (green light ver but from edabsdirect) is starting to get the charred look around the ceramic heating element / nail seating. I notice the same odd smell when not vaping extracts..with a thoroughly cleaned / IPA'd nail.
This signals to me that all things pointed out by others previously are probably true to a certain degree, but others can judge for themselves. I stopped immediately using the device after my own observations and it's beyond coincidence to see this being brought up.
Yes, I should have cleaned the residual off, but I'm in a rush out the door... def not the same degree of usage as seen on the reddit post, but I did not like the funky odor being given off (and making a variety of types taste the same imo).
PTFE and other similar fluoropolymers offgas at high temps just like anything else.
My d-nail gets used at 290c. Lower than the nominal temp that the manufacturers talk about with this product. I would never, ever touch any fluoropolymer product onto the surface of my nail, would you?
Surely then this vape's construction is beyond the pale. Here we have visible degradation and weird smells coming off of the product. It is not controversial at this stage after multiple reports of the same to say that this is not safe and should not be being sold. Let alone the solder and glue when we get underneath the nail.
Remember, the numbers being tossed around by vendors about the point at which we get damage to PTFE is likely based off of reading wikipedia/other unreliable sources or information from the Chinese manufacturers. This is not likely to be the most nuanced and detailed of data.
This data may not take into account that many studies that look at degradation of PTFE work with PTFE in a vacuum. PTFE is known to degrade at higher temperatures in a vacuum than when heated in an oxidative atmosphere (http://enose.jpl.nasa.gov/publications/ICES-Abhijit-2008-.pdf). The paper I just cited highlights that it is important to be aware of the precombustion event markers that can be observed before full combustion of PTFE, such as off-gassing and particle release.
260c is the highest temp I have seen recommended for use in oxidative atmospheres (like the air around us!) in the scholarly literature for PTFE (http://search.proquest.com.ezproxy....ltextPDF/CEBE5B8BDD3F4761PQ/1?accountid=36155). This is obviously a safety threshold temp uncomfortably lower than the temps that the H E nails reach with PTFE in direct contact or near direct contact with the hot nail according to the relevant manufacturers/vendors.
Do not buy this product. Nothing personal against the companies in question - this may have been an honest mistake right back to the manufacturing (or carelessness, regardless this is not necessarily some calculated cynical attempt to profit off of dangerous shit), but I am gonna tell my fellow FC people when something just doesn't make the cut safety-wise regardless of the reasons.
Anyone who owns this product, I would contact the vendor and raise what I and others have mentioned here. Get specific materials information from the vendors too, we need to confirm exactly which fluoropolymer has been used here to have the clearest possible idea of the dangers involved - regardless, the precombustion markers are clear as day in the pics we've seen in this thread:
If you own any product where visible discoloration, decomposition or degradation can be observed on PTFE (or most any of material really!), it is time to get rid of that product and never buy the same model again. Please don't cause avoidable damage to your bodies with this sort of thing.
Please note that I am not accusing anyone of lying about safety data here. I believe that vendors may have just not had the best scientific information to consult on safe uses of PTFE.
Regardless, visible discoloration/degradation of PTFE in airpaths = forget about it.
As I said above though, sounds like there are/will be safe options in the not too distant future or even available now
Sure, dab portably, hell have one for me! Just do it safely my friends!
zikzak
Well-Known Member
Greetings, I have been using my Greenlight G9 H-enail for a few months now. Here is my technique. It eliminates using the clumsy dabber tool, and minimizes the temperature build-up, and allows me to experience the true pleasure of the terpenes.
Forthwith, . . I pre-load the nail with 2 pieces of wax, each about the size of a lentil. I place the carb cap onto the glass piece. I initiate the heat cycle. Before the green light even comes on, there is vapor to be had. I take long slow draws until the green light (heat cycle) goes off. I immediately press the button 3 more times to start another heat cycle. Vapor clouds ! I continue to draw, until there is no more vapor production. Since I am drawing air into the device almost constantly, the nail never gets all that hot, allowing for wonderful low-temp dabs.
By the way, anything can be misused/abused, especially devices for getting stoned. I have read many fucking stupid techniques some people employ which are "way out of bounds". Many of these dimwits then use a forum to bitch about "failures". Guess what ? More than a few people have been murdered with a #2 pencil. Shall we pile-on and demonize the pencil ? ! ? !
This is basically the method I've used in practice the entire time..maybe one or two dabs on the highest cycle when testing out the as advertised temp leveling. I wish I had the same experience as you, but I get an odd flavor coming from mine. Even if I just warm the thing up, with no nail on it and just the carb cap and glass attachment in place.
I'm not sure whom the dimwits commentary was aimed at, but I'm just sharing my own personal observations and I believe I'm fully using the device within operating parameters. It *might* be a lemon and an odd one in the bunch, but I didn't draw that conclusion. Unfortunately, this is a write-off for me, but I have been thinking of a possibility of using the ceramic heating iron since it is portable and it might be nice for some electronics/wiring needs after I dremel away some of the PTFE top.
I'd honestly give this away for shipping, but don't want to contribute to someone inhaling fumes that my particular unit is exhibiting.
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garymon
Member
Hmm I haven't seen any issues with my G9 unit but it is only used occasionally on low temps like how @mrbonsai420 described.
Has anyone seen where I can buy the new improved glass? Mine clogs pretty fast with the original glass.
Has anyone seen where I can buy the new improved glass? Mine clogs pretty fast with the original glass.
anasrzi
Well-Known Member
I've just checked mine this morning (Dabbie from vapefiend) and it shows zero signs of off gassing, this is not to say there isn't any going on and I've contacted vapefiend via email to see what else he has to say, I've asked about getting some kind of conversion kit to change the ptfe top to a ceramic one same as his Dabbie pro and also same as the newer dr dabber ones have done.
My nail seems to be very well sealed into the unit with a thick neck of metal contacting the ptfe, perhaps this is what's helping to prevent the melting on my unit? Maybe the fact I dab, inhale and clear the bowl before it hits green (lowest heat cycle) prevents all or much of the potential to bubble up? I prefer the lower temps anyway just for taste value.
I'll keep you posted on anything said via email providing that's fine with the man himself.
My nail seems to be very well sealed into the unit with a thick neck of metal contacting the ptfe, perhaps this is what's helping to prevent the melting on my unit? Maybe the fact I dab, inhale and clear the bowl before it hits green (lowest heat cycle) prevents all or much of the potential to bubble up? I prefer the lower temps anyway just for taste value.
I'll keep you posted on anything said via email providing that's fine with the man himself.