New medical cannabis user needs advice...

Creeper · Dec 30, 2015

Hello everyone!

So I thought I would post up some questions on the medical cannabis I have been using and get some advice to better tailor future sessions.

I have been prescribed medical cannabis to help with anxiety and insomnia, and I mainly wish to use it as a sleep aid. I have been vaporizing for the past couple of months with an Arizer EQ and have recently added a Zeus Iceborn into the system which has helped my sessions go longer.

I started out with 3 strains from my provider, Sensi Star (SS), White Widow (WW) and Diesel (D). SS and WW are both rated on the high end of THC at above 20% and the D is moderate at 17%. I have been prescribed .5 gr daily however I have been vaping .2 gr nightly.

I notice that using these 3 strains that it hasn't been really working as a sleep aid, in fact it sometimes triggers elevated anxiety and an energy boost. I've noticed as well if I am doing something (watching a film, surfing the Internet) that requires me to be actively involved it creates more energy and possibly elevated anxiety. If I passively have ambient music in the background the sessions are more enjoyable however I still wouldn't not consider myself tired.

Last session I was fixated on the link between cannabis usage and schizophrenia, it created I guess a "bad trip" and I have been hesitant to vape again.

I talked to the provider about this and they recommended a CBD-dominate strain and a couple of mild strains that are THC-dominate... Nebula 2 CBD, Pennywise and Original Cheese.

So I'd love some advice... I am thinking of cutting the SS and WW with some Nebula 2 to see if it tempers the psychoactive effects. CBD seems right up my alley however it's considered a stimulant which would ultimately defeat my purpose. Also would increasing the dosage closer to the .5 gr help get a better effect or would I just be strengthening the current negative effects?

Thanks in advance for any help!

lazylathe · Dec 30, 2015

Sounds like you are on the right path and welcome to the wonders of the herb!

Few questions to get started! LOL...

1 - What temp are you vaping at?
I find i need higher temps to get the benefits of the CBD which helps me sleep.

2 - What time do you start vaping and what time do you stop at night?
Late night vaping at the wrong temp or wrong strain will keep you up.

3 - How long are your sessions and do you have more than one per night?
I find smaller loads spaced out works better for me than just one large load.

4 - Try cutting out the strains that are high on the Sativa side.
I used to have issues with sleeping and since i switched to strictly Indica strains it is a lot better!

Your location also helps a lot!
You may be able to set up a session with an experienced member and get a lot of help that way!

archangelz001 · Dec 30, 2015

For treating anxiety and insomnia stick to Indica dominant strains like Sensi Star. White Widow and Diesel are Sativa dominant strains that will be more cerebrally stimulating, but can cause sleepiness 60-90 minutes after dosing as you come down.

Microdose using 0.1gm or less rather than trying to consume 0.5gm. That amount would be way too much for me. But it depends on your prior use history and tolerance. If you are new to MMJ and vaping then whoever told you to start with 0.5gm is not competent.

Use Sativas only during daytime or early evening hours to decrease anxiety, but use Indicas (with or without CBD) later in the evening. And learn to microdose. You can always start slow and do more, but once you've taken too much you have to go with the trip.

Edit: you should check out resources like Leafly: https://www.leafly.com/start-exploring/good-night-sleep

CarolKing · Dec 30, 2015

Good old Grand Daddy Purple will put you to sleep also Grape Ape is one of my favorites for night. Go for the Indicas rather than the hybrids for awhile. I like Green Crack for anxiety ( I know terrible name ). It works well for me but that doesn't say it would be for you, we are all different.

Edit
Vaporize high temps. Do you have access to Indica concentrates? You could take just one draw to start with waxes and shatter then wait 20 min.

DDave · Dec 30, 2015

King of Insomnia here... found OG Kush (batch with nice tiny round nugs, cali grown) to work a charm when vaped at 230C in a stock EQ.

herbivore21 · Dec 30, 2015

I have treated my insomnia for years with cannabis, and have found that for getting to sleep and staying asleep, you need concentrates. Flowers never kept me asleep and are not much help for serious insomnia IME.

I have recently found that the single unmatched sleeping medicine for me is to get some stem hash from cleaning a buddy's solo and rosin squish it into a clear orange/amber oil (filtered through a screen to get rid of the particulates). All this took was a hair straightener, a piece of parchment, a piece of muslin cloth and an Irwin c-clamp. A dab or two of this is guaranteed sleep for 6 hours or more. The only risk is that you wake up still feeling a bit stoned.

This creates a flavor not unlike vaping a bowl of flowers, but smoother, better tasting, longer lasting and hence more effective for sleep. The fact that this oil has already been boiled once when being vaped off of the flower means that decarboxylation (activation of THC) and loss of some of the lower boiling, often headier/stimulating terpenes IME (This will vary based on the variety of cannabis you are using, the strain, how it was cultivated, the maturity of the resin etc) have occured.

Remember too that some terpene profiles and hence effects cannot be aptly explained along 'sativa' vs 'indica' lines as sativa and indica are problematic taxonomies originally derived from the region in which the cannabis was historically cultivated, rather than discrete and accurate descriptors of the effects profile of a given variety of cannabis flower.

Get meds that have been tested for terpene/cannabinoid content and remember which profiles work for you. Do not rely on strain names etc, this is not a methodologically sound way to get reliable (repeatable) effects due to the strain not being a clear enough indicator of effect profile alone.

Unfortunately, in the brave new world of cannabis medicine, you will not have access to super clear, detailed instructions of how best to medicate your conditions. This data is coming, but the research has barely yet been done and is stifled regularly by various regulations.

Hope this helps as a start, if you need any further explanation please just ask

Creeper · Dec 30, 2015

Thanks for the responses so far! I came to the right place to get info I see.

I'll try and post on the individual comments.

@lazylathe: My typical session is as follows. I start an hour before I wish to go to bed, for example I'd like to sleep at midnight I'll start at 11 pm. I'll grind .2 gm of herb and load a bowl. I set the EQ for 200 degrees Celsius and take 5-6 draws, I'll mix the bowl and up the temp to 210 and repeat until I hit 220 or feel like stopping... whichever comes first. Sessions usually last an hour or so I find.

Most of the strains I have are hybrids that are indica-dominate as per the provider.

@archangelz001: 0.5 gm was prescribed by my physician, he knew it would be way more then what I would be consuming but it allows me to access 15 gm a month which gets free shipping from the medical cannabis provider... although I don't believe that was his intention in the prescription.

Regarding micro-dosing would you just continue to draw from the .1 gm over an extended period of time or load multiple bowls to dose with during the evening? I could keep the EQ on for an extended period of time and have my draws spaced out over the evening although it would probably drive my wife insane (she isn't a fan of the smell).

White Widow and Diesel are listed as indica-hybrids on the providers website by the way.

@CarolKing: Unfortunately I don't have access to those strains from my provider, but regarding the higher vape temps that seems to be an issue I'm having so I will try it tonight. I don't have access to concentrates through my provider but I will talk to them about it, I'm in Canada so I have seen discussion on obtaining cannabis in other forms.

@DDave: Awesome to see you on this thread! I am loving your mod, been using it for a while and it makes a big difference over the stock cyclone bowls.

My provider just released OG Kush as a limited strain, I may look at picking it up for February since I've already placed my order for January.

So using your bowl would you still recommend starting at 230? Highest I've gone so far is 220 at the end of my sessions.

@herbivore21: A lot of the concentrate stuff is over my head, like I said I'm so new I'm just trying to get my bearings around the dried-herbs for now.

I feel fortunate that I don't have serious insomnia, for example the nighttime cold medication does a decent job of helping me sleep however I don't really have issues sleeping it's the getting tired aspect that I need to work on.

I know as well I need to exercise more, I've been lazy since this past summer and I know that contributes to poor sleep.

The next thing I am looking to try is to create coconut oil infused with my ABV, I am waiting until I have 7 gm of ABV to attempt making 100 ml of coconut oil to try.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions, tonight I will try Sensi Star at 230 to start for my typical hour before bed session to see if it makes a difference and go from there!

herbivore21 · Dec 30, 2015

Creeper said:
Thanks for the responses so far! I came to the right place to get info I see.

I'll try and post on the individual comments.

@lazylathe: My typical session is as follows. I start an hour before I wish to go to bed, for example I'd like to sleep at midnight I'll start at 11 pm. I'll grind .2 gm of herb and load a bowl. I set the EQ for 200 degrees Celsius and take 5-6 draws, I'll mix the bowl and up the temp to 210 and repeat until I hit 220 or feel like stopping... whichever comes first. Sessions usually last an hour or so I find.

Most of the strains I have are hybrids that are indica-dominate as per the provider.

@archangelz001: 0.5 gm was prescribed by my physician, he knew it would be way more then what I would be consuming but it allows me to access 15 gm a month which gets free shipping from the medical cannabis provider... although I don't believe that was his intention in the prescription.

Regarding micro-dosing would you just continue to draw from the .1 gm over an extended period of time or load multiple bowls to dose with during the evening? I could keep the EQ on for an extended period of time and have my draws spaced out over the evening although it would probably drive my wife insane (she isn't a fan of the smell).

White Widow and Diesel are listed as indica-hybrids on the providers website by the way.

@CarolKing: Unfortunately I don't have access to those strains from my provider, but regarding the higher vape temps that seems to be an issue I'm having so I will try it tonight. I don't have access to concentrates through my provider but I will talk to them about it, I'm in Canada so I have seen discussion on obtaining cannabis in other forms.

@DDave: Awesome to see you on this thread! I am loving your mod, been using it for a while and it makes a big difference over the stock cyclone bowls.

My provider just released OG Kush as a limited strain, I may look at picking it up for February since I've already placed my order for January.

So using your bowl would you still recommend starting at 230? Highest I've gone so far is 220 at the end of my sessions.

@herbivore21: A lot of the concentrate stuff is over my head, like I said I'm so new I'm just trying to get my bearings around the dried-herbs for now.

I feel fortunate that I don't have serious insomnia, for example the nighttime cold medication does a decent job of helping me sleep however I don't really have issues sleeping it's the getting tired aspect that I need to work on.

I know as well I need to exercise more, I've been lazy since this past summer and I know that contributes to poor sleep.

The next thing I am looking to try is to create coconut oil infused with my ABV, I am waiting until I have 7 gm of ABV to attempt making 100 ml of coconut oil to try.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions, tonight I will try Sensi Star at 230 to start for my typical hour before bed session to see if it makes a difference and go from there!

coconut oil with avb should actually work well for you so long as you don't overdo it (dose very small and increase if it doesn't have required effect after a couple hours). Delta 11 THC which is what THC becomes in your digestive tract before absorption has a higher propensity to cause anxiety. All the best in your efforts

DDave · Dec 30, 2015

Creeper said:
@DDave: Awesome to see you on this thread! I am loving your mod, been using it for a while and it makes a big difference over the stock cyclone bowls.

My provider just released OG Kush as a limited strain, I may look at picking it up for February since I've already placed my order for January.

So using your bowl would you still recommend starting at 230? Highest I've gone so far is 220 at the end of my sessions.

@Creeper thanks and glad youre enjoying your mod kit!

Each EQ can vary in temps a bit. Watch the color of your ABV for a few sessions. I never combusted at 230c, but I have heard of two reports it it happening.

For the OG Kush, see if it's a batch of small round nugs. Very earthy smelling. That batch was like knockout drops! I had two other batches with larger almost xmas tree shaped nugs... while still heavy, had nothing on the first batch.

Creeper · Dec 31, 2015

Alright! Higher temps definitely worked out way better! I was quite medicated by 30 minutes in... so much so that I think I can reduce the dosage. I'm going to try the micro-dose at .1 gm next session and see what the results are. Thanks so much for the advice, total changed my experience! :tup:

stressed · Dec 31, 2015

Creeper said:
. I have been vaporizing for the past couple of months with an Arizer EQ and have recently added a Zeus Iceborn into the system which has helped my sessions go longer.

i hadn't heard of the iceborn before. it looks excellent. you should start a thread about it. i think i'm going to get one. not much user info out there yet.

i have an extreme Q but i only use the bag. do you think the mouth piece for the bag will fit one of the things on the iceborn? it looks like it fits a bunch of different mouthpiece sizes.

i fall asleep like a rock but wake up after 4 hours, sometimes 5. i'm going to get some CBD capsules and a high cbd flower ( 10% cbd & 10% thc) and do some experimenting. i've read it helps for longer sleep sessions. i would love to get back to 6 hours a night. over the last 20 years, i've gone from 8 hours to 7 to 6 to 5. fortunately, i'm retired and i also get about 2 hours of nap time a day. getting old sucks but not having to work kind of makes up for it!

Creeper · Jan 7, 2016

@stressed you know what, I will start a thread on it... look out for it in a bit! The mouthpiece of a balloon "should" fit however I only use whips so I can't say for sure but if you really want to know just ask and I can dig out my balloon kit to see just for you.

I've been micro-dosing at .1 gm and at 230 Celsius and it's been awesome overall... still have to make sure I'm not too actively engaged in any activity has my mind tends to wander with the new found sensations.

herbivore21 · Jan 7, 2016

Wow that Zeus iceborn looks interesting!!! Only thing about it that might keep me away is that it uses whips/hoses.

Also if it is ice cooling, wouldn't we get more rapid recondensing of vapor?

So many questions! lol

Creeper · Jan 7, 2016

@herbivore21 my review is up, check it out and fire away any questions you have! http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/review-discussion-on-the-zeus-iceborn-vaporizer-accessory.20329/

sativasam · Jan 7, 2016

For some people Sativas make them paranoid. Personally Indicas make me paranoid. Every time without fail. I'd like to think they don't, but they do. They also make me more of a couch potato. Even hybrids make me paranoid! I had a broken ankle once that was really swollen and a strong indica was good for the pain when relaxing in the evening but it came with the price of fear!! So there are positives and negatives with indicas for me. Can't have it all I guess. Sativa's on the other hand give me loads of energy and make me really happy, and I don't get paranoid from them; and I find them much more suited for day time than indicas could ever be. The sativa I get is a pure Sativa (I dislike hybrids as mentioned above), and if i'm vaping my sativa at night it can keep me up all night, literally till 5am; but in that sense I find it great for being creative as they make my mind race. Personally I like my sativas to be pure and my indicas to be pure. The different effects for me are so clear.

From my experience I wouldn't recommend any high THC Sativa strain to help you sleep, and I wouldn't recommend any high THC Indica strain for anxiety. BUT I would recommend a strong CBD strain. Sativa or Indica maybe not so important as it being very low THC. The lower the better. Look for Avidekal weed if you can as I think that's the lowest THC strain out there. Or even find a pure CBD concentrate that has 0% THC. Although I'm in the UK and we can not get the medicinal CBD cannabis products you guys get; for the last few days I've been using a strong CBD concentrate derived from legal Hemp that has 0% THC. I can tell you that CBD will help you sleep and relax. And will likely help with the anxiety. Everyone is different though. Best of luck!

organic weed · Jan 9, 2016

Ok this is my input.

- as many people said already go for indicas and not sativas. Try to find a 100% indicas. It's very difficult to find but one of the best 100% indica is NORTHERN LIGHT from Sensi Seeds, the original one. It's the granmother of many modern hybrid genetics. I grow it constantly as it's the only strain that makes me very tired and sleepy and that goes on the next day if I use too much. It's narcotic and excellent for sleep

- 0.5 gr/day is way too much. Don't do that, seriously. Why should you work your tolerance up? It doesn't make sense. The idea behind this herb is to use just the minimum necessary you need for your specific purpose. I strongly suggest going for 0.05 sessions and maybe have 2 at nights if insomnia is your challenge. That would be fine . Just go higher if you really need it

- don't surf in the Internet or watch television at least 1 hour before going to sleep. That's a golden rule. It's written everywhere in websites that give suggestions on insomnia. Your brain need tranquillity and relaxation before sleep and not be activated by random reading or silly tv shows or worrying news. Reading a book or watching a nice calm movie at most would help you more

- consume your herb at least 1.5/2 hrs before going to sleep. Just leave time enough for your body to go through the full effect and the indica activating your sleeping functions

That's my 2 cents

Creeper · Jan 9, 2016

@sativasam your post came at a timely interval my friend!

I just got my January batch of strains to try... Original Cheese, Nebula 2 CBD and Pennywise. Original Cheese is listed as a sativa-dominate hybrid with 12% (I think) THC and .1% CBD. I vaped .1 gm and it was pure bliss! Amazing body relaxation and just a touch of some feel-good mental state, I had a bit of energy but it was the most enjoyable strain thus far in my journey.

Going to try one of the CBD-dominate strains tomorrow afternoon but I think you and I may be alike in our experiences and I thank you so much for sharing your info!

@organic weed I will talk with my provider to see if they are bringing on a heavy Indica strain but I think I might be a sativa dude right now (it was only one session but very enjoyable).

I have never hit the .5 gm in a session, I might attempt .05 gm and see if it has the same effect.

You are absolutely right about the electronic devices right before bed, a very bad sleep hygiene habit that I need to continue to work on.

Interesting, I might get that a try and see... maybe I am doing it too close to when I want to pass out. Thanks so much for your post going to try some of it in the future! :tup:

sativasam · Jan 10, 2016

Your welcome

Creeper · Jan 29, 2016

Just thought I would update this post, so lately I have been vaping .05 gm and putting my Indica-hybrids with the Original Cheese / Nebula 2 CBD strains... it's interesting to me because I feel the effects of both strains working, it's not dampened as I thought it would be combining 2 different ones at the same time.

Definitely more of the body-buzz effects is better for me out of the Original Cheese... I haven't even cracked open the Pennywise yet lol.

Thanks again to everyone who helped out on this post, excellent advice that really helped me!

Creeper · Feb 9, 2016

@DDave got my hands on some of the OG Kush, you were right... nice mellow strain on it's own for relaxing.

I tried the Pennywise yesterday, it's an amplified strain of the Nebula 2... kicks a little harder and has more of an energy boost then Nebula 2.

Overall though since adding sativa's and CBD-dominate strains it's been way better even vaping the indica-hybrids on their own... I think my body is acclimatizing to the effects of the herb in general regardless of type.

Can't wait to see what my doctor makes out of all the strains I've been testing lol.

DDave · Feb 9, 2016

Creeper said:
@DDave got my hands on some of the OG Kush, you were right... nice mellow strain on it's own for relaxing.

I tried the Pennywise yesterday, it's an amplified strain of the Nebula 2... kicks a little harder and has more of an energy boost then Nebula 2.

Overall though since adding sativa's and CBD-dominate strains it's been way better even vaping the indica-hybrids on their own... I think my body is acclimatizing to the effects of the herb in general regardless of type.

Can't wait to see what my doctor makes out of all the strains I've been testing lol.

@Creeper
OG Kush, definitely one of my go-to strains.

Had an interesting experience with Banana Kush recently. Great taste! Same mellowness as OG Kush, but couldn't wipe this ridiculous grin off my face. Like Sour Diesel, but mellow.

psychonaut · Feb 11, 2016

See if you can get your hands on some white walker. It is the highest thc:cbd ratio bud I've found yet. It's 1:4ish and I have to say anxiety really gets toned down bigtime. It's a 70% indica, cross of white widow and skywalker og.

Make sure to check the ratios though, I've seen this tested with higher thc and a more balanced ratio.

HomeFree · Feb 11, 2016

.2 gr is a pretty good amount for a low tolerance. That's 30-40 mgs of THC. Sensi Star is great, so is White Widow. I like a good diesel too. One of my fave diesel crosses is blueberry X diesel. It is tasty and more relaxing.

You can use way smaller loads in log vapes, down to .025 grams so you might wanna look into a log vape. Something I sometimes do is basically completely exhaust some material until there isn't even much of a taste left and I will mix it with unvaped material. Also sometimes I will grind up some extra stem and also use that as a filler. Not too much though, no more than around 1/3 of the load.

All cannabis makes me fall asleep eventually, even the most headiest of the headies. Might take 30 minutes, but it happens. Eat something if you are having a whitey/greenie, like a cookie or whatever you are craving. Usually I eat a small snack before vaping myself.

You could mix with high CBD, and also ask for one that helps with sleep and is not very heady. That should do the trick.

Oddly enough it is usually the shorter flowering sativa leaning strains (in other words not landrace equatorial strains, but still sativa) which help me to sleep. I am usually out cold in 20 minutes. One minute I will be wide awake, next my alarm clock goes off.

CNYC · Feb 11, 2016

I would like to mimic what other members have already said :

*** MICRO DOSE - As I user for over 25 years I had to learn this the hard way. The days of rolling joints doing bong hits and bowl at a time are GONE for me. This weed is SUPER potent. It took me a year of OD'ing it to figure it out.

Don't use at least 1 1/2 hrs before bed. You will remained wired on any strain.

For God's Sake DO NOT use a concentrate right now. Sorry but having a new user mega dose on THC is a really BAD idea. He already is anxiety prone. Fill your bowl with just enough for one hit of flower and that is all. Wait a good hour at first to see the effect. 20 minutes may be way too short of time to feel effects not to mention the following hits can turn the effects in another direction once TOO MUCH has been had.

Know that CBD can be just as anxiety producing if mixed with even just a little THC. Take just the same consideration for micro dosing with CBD. CBD can turn on you as well. I also would not take it to alter heavy THC effects.....ie. If I was too buzzed and needed to come down. I would feel very uncomfortable putting ANYTHING else into my system. The way to avoid this is MICRO Dosing a limited number of times per day with your preferred strain.

Know that this stuff is medicine. You use MJ instead of having to take standardized drugs from pharmaceutical companies. It doesn't mean its great for you like a romain lettuce salad every day. It is a better alternative than the chemical one that's all.

I use MJ for the same things you do plus mood disorder and pain for a low back injury. I have been at **0 for Vicodin usage this year for pain and maybe under 10 evenings needed for Xanax usage. That's Great but to me honest I like the effects of the Xanax better. The Vicodin I could do without. Xanax is highly addictive though and the dangers scare me enough to use very very little of it.

EDIBLES - Maybe in the future you can try them but for now stick to flower since the effects don't last as long and aren't as potent. When you do start playing with edibles ***START with 2.5mg of lab tested product that is properly dosed. You will read 10MG as a standard dose. That amount can FLOOR a beginner in some cases 5mg can still be super strong. IMO if you can't do 2.5mg comfortably then edibles aren't good for you.

Good Luck with your journey and be a safe responsible user.

Creeper · Feb 11, 2016

Thanks guys for the info, micro-dosing is the way to go for sure. Thankfully I haven't felt the CBD-dominate strains turn on me although the Pennywise is wayyy to strong for a daytime blend.

Right now I'm in an awesome place with cannabis, treating it with respect and enjoying the ride thus far. :tup:

New medical cannabis user needs advice...

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