Best Temperature for e-cig based portables using oil.

Just wondering what the informed opinion on the best temperature for vaping oil out of an e-cig based portable is. An example of the type of device I'm talking about is a Yocan evolve, a delta-9 device, a product from oilvaporizer.com, or a rebuildable RDA coil. I recently acquired some temperature control mods, and have been experimenting with different materials and temperatures, but I figured some of you guys would have some insight that could help.

Excellent question. And one a few of us are discussing right now on the Devine Tribe thread in fact.

As seems always the case, I think it depends on what you want? Dabbers are fond of very high temperatures and therefore high production rates. Using stuff like Omicron carts guys bump the temperature up and up and up looking for 'bigger clouds'.

I tend to the bottom end, where taste, not volume, drives temperature. I prefer to get more volume in parallel (larger load, larger heater) to hold the same temperature. Or take slower hits.

That said, it's easy to experiment with temperatures. For instance I just did so again using the FlowerMate pods and their 'Pro' vape that lets you dial up temperatures. I came to the same general answer as before, 390F suits me best. Others might like higher or lower, but IMO if flavor is a factor not by much. Cloud chasers would tend to the hotter end of course.

The larger issue is, I think, you don't really know the temperature you're running at. "Juice" is just not all that demanding, nothing like the precision we want with oil/wax. I suggest you can easily be 100 or more degrees from where you think you are.

We noticed that some mods (like the Invader Mini) gave good vapor set at 220F. Yes, boiling water hot. Other mods, like the Vic VTC Mini I'm now using give equivalent performance (near as 'we' can tell) set at 330F. Clearly you can't trust at least one of those?

So I rigged up a Thermocouple to try to measure things:


The Thermocouple is in under the doughnut (which is the heater) pressed against the bottom), you can see the two leads coming out. At 'the magic temperature' (VTC set to 330F) the T/C meter reads 390F, which seems to square things up for now. I hope to repeat this test using temperature indicating crayon, due this weekend. Hopefully it'll confirm the temperature (at 400F) to within 1%.

I think the heater is 60F hotter than VTC does and 170F more than Invader at that temperature?

IMO this technique (sensing resistance change in the heater to determine temperature) has some advantages in sealed heaters like the DC uses, but in open coils with wicks inside it's not so clear. In such cases, unlike sealed ones, local conditions can create hot (and cold) spots that the controller can't know about and therefore can't compensate for. Cool one end and the controller will sense an average drop and crank up the power, making the normal part (not in a draft say, or insulated by more concentrate) get too hot. Again, not an e-cig issue I think?

So, if you can really guarantee the actual temperature where the concentrate gets heated I'd say you want something like 390F. Say 370 to 430 to cover all tastes? But I don't think you know what the temperature really is, nor would anyone else. Hot spots not withstanding........

OF

OF said:

Dabbers are fond of very high temperatures and therefore high production rates.

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I would respectfully disagree with this statement. I live in an area with a very high percentage of concentrate users and 100% of people I dab with are using very good materials heated in a consistent fashion in order to optimize their low temp dabs and maximize terpene transfer. Most of my personal use is off a quartz electronic nail which provides consistent low temperature heat, and e-nails continue to become more and more popular as more people say good bye to their torches.

There are tons of people using torches and nails; the usual procedure is to heat the nail to red hot and use a timer in order to consistently hit that perfect temp. Waiting 35-120 seconds depending on what it is you're waiting to cool then applying the oil below a vaporization temperature, then lowering the atmospheric pressure at the vaporization surface using a honey pots with an OFZ carb cap, or a quartz club banger with a carb cap or flat glass seems to be the most common method right now.

In my opinion, the best temperature to dab at is the lowest temperature at which you are satisfied with the efficiency of vaporization. Some people want to vaporize 100% of the oil applied to a surface immediately, while other people prefer an even lower temperature and some loss of efficiency with something left behind in the nail to increase the flavor (waste it to taste it!)

Furthermore, different substances, concentrates, extracts vaporize at different temperatures. Some very pure distillates may vaporize at a very low temperature, while another substance with more wax membrane remaining in the oil (like rosin) may require a hundred degrees higher temperatures to vaporize. Therefore, I don't believe we can arrive at any sort of definitive "Best" temperature for all extracts or preferences.

SamuraiSam said:

I would respectfully disagree with this statement. I live in an area with a very high percentage of concentrate users and 100% of people I dab with are using very good materials heated in a consistent fashion in order to optimize their low temp dabs and maximize terpene transfer. Most of my personal use is off a quartz electronic nail which provides consistent low temperature heat, and e-nails continue to become more and more popular as more people say good bye to their torches.

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OK, I'm not a dabber, but know a few. If you say nobody but them is using temperatures higher than say 440F under any conditions I'll take your word for it. Until then I'll stick to my 'very high temperatures' POV

What temperature were you recommending to the OP for "the best temperature for vaping oil out of an e-cig based portable"?

TIA

OF

I don't have a temperature at all, but would suggest the same start low and work your way up approach as always.

As you've found, the "temperature" you set a temp control box mod to is not the temperature measured at the heating element or in direct contact with the oil. Since there's a decent to large disparity depending on the device and heating element used, I don't think providing a temperature to input to a device that doesn't correspond to the actual temperature at the heating element is very useful. Two different heaters from the same batch that have slightly different resistances can behave differently and have different disparities from "set" to "measured".

The only way that determining an optimal vaporization temperature would be consistent from user to user across a variety of different "TC Devices" is if each person tested the output heat of their heater for a given input on that device and created an input temp vs output temp curve. It's a drawback of a temperature control system that does not actually measure temperature with a thermistor or thermocouple built into the unit as part of its feedback loop, as happens using a PID controller on an e-nail.

SamuraiSam said:

I don't have a temperature at all, but would suggest the same start low and work your way up approach as always.

As you've found, the "temperature" you set a temp control box mod to is not the temperature measured at the heating element or in direct contact with the oil.

Two different heaters from the same batch that have slightly different resistances can behave differently and have different disparities from "set" to "measured".

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Understood. I think 'nail' experience is basically useless WRT this question. I have a suggested answer, 390F at the surface with a probable range of something like 370 to 430 whether you can measure it or not.

While there seems to be an error in the example I gave, it's a calibration issue having to do with the specific alloy used in the heater. The default factor for "Ni 200" is too large, the ones for SS and Ti too small to work accurately. If I called up the Ti scale and set it to 330F it would probably be something past 900F, it was glowing when I cut it off. So 'it depends'. Enter the right TCR value (I'm currently using 240PPM/degree C) and you can be accurate. I'm calling for 390F and measuring 3990F independently, I'm just not sure the reading is all that accurate, if not I'll tweak it. It's repeatable, but TC rigs can be deceptive (although this one seems sound). The crayon will calibrate that.

The statement about the difference in heater resistance introducing error is wrong. The technique is INCREASE in resistance (not absolute value), usually measured in PPM. I'm using two bases, one .74 Ohms cold, the other 8.2. Each time i change them I have to reset the cold temperature (or let the mod set it.....). Each will rise a different number of Ohms but the same percentage to get the same results. It's a 'delta as a fraction of base' deal. No error happens with different resistances as long as you stay in range for the mod and use the same material in the heater.

OF