Discontinued Zion vaporizer

nosmoking said:

I figured it best/most appropriate to respond to your post here in the Zion thread since my response is more directed towards the Zion itself. I recall reading that your a fresh convert from combusting and that you just ordered a Daisy. Some of the beta testers were able to compare the Zion to the Daisy as they owned or tried the Daisy themselves. Even @RastaBuddhaTao has gotten himself a Daisy. I would think of the Zion as a much more regulated electric Daisy...although I still have yet to try one so this is all a matter of opinion from observation.

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That's a pretty good description of the Zion in terms of capability. I had the pleasure of trying RBT'S Daisy last time I was over and it really delivers a mighty wallop! The Zion comes closer to keeping up with the Daisy than any other electric vape I've tried so far.

nosmoking said:

I figured it best/most appropriate to respond to your post here in the Zion thread since my response is more directed towards the Zion itself. I recall reading that your a fresh convert from combusting and that you just ordered a Daisy. Some of the beta testers were able to compare the Zion to the Daisy as they owned or tried the Daisy themselves. Even @RastaBuddhaTao has gotten himself a Daisy. I would think of the Zion as a much more regulated electric Daisy...although I still have yet to try one so this is all a matter of opinion from observation.

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Indeed, I was one of those members from the start making such comparisons back in July, and more recently @IAmKrazy2 expressed the sentiment about the Zion signature.

I actually just ordered myself what must be one of the last Daisy's available since I have a Lily as the Daisy I used was my buddy's. True Zion is more portable than Daisy, but it will get its own Lily-like companion in the stealthier bare bones single battery unit... They've got that instant heady feeling you get behind the eyes after a nice rip, its the full bodied signature as I like to call it, truly powerful and unique.

@hackslasher there actually is a 10mm glass prototype that @HD Springer has that is essentially like that, extremely tiny bowl. But limited airflow, why the single battery unit was switched from 14mm even to 18 like Zion. However you can make a shallow bowl in the Zion since the screens can be pushed down to move them closer to the end, or you can even try them basket style as I've posted previously how to do. Alternatively, as long as you cover the entire screen so no air bypasses the herb, you can actually use very little even with the screen further back. Versatile

I actually love all the soup nazi stuff bc Seinfeld is really the ultimate show for me, and if we've learned anything from Triihouse, and Thermovape too unfortunately, (aside from some truly amazing pure convection standards) it is that vaporizers being created and produced forever is sadly not at all a given...

Although I am mostly a Jerry with a smidge of George, in this situation I would probably have to be Newman I suppose:

(at 0:55)
but i pray this never happens here!

Let it stay more like this instead:
...and I'll stay happy!
Mmm Zion Jumbalaya!

The Daisy is faster, with even cooler vapor than the Zion. I think the vapor "quality" is better in the Zion though, with less lurning curve.

The Daisy is/was still one of the best vapes IMO. But i can certainly see myself using the Zion much more, and sharing it with much more people, with much less chance of combustion.

I've settled on always using screens 'basket style', that is, the open end of the screen towards the heater, dome towards the mouth.

This is because after much testing I've found that screens oriented this way stay much more open and clean much longer for me. The heat of the end of the load seems to dry the material out to the point that one last stir and it all blows right out leaving the flow path open to its full diameter. I'm lazy and like the extra time I get before needing a deeper clean.

Screens installed the other way leave a little crevice all around that never fully cleans out with stirring and blowing, and thus the effective diameter of the flow path reduces much more quickly for me.

It will be interesting to get other screen opinions and usage tips as more and more Zions make it out into the wild.

Exciting times!

nosmoking said:

I figured it best/most appropriate to respond to your post here in the Zion thread since my response is more directed towards the Zion itself. I recall reading that your a fresh convert from combusting and that you just ordered a Daisy. Some of the beta testers were able to compare the Zion to the Daisy as they owned or tried the Daisy themselves. Even @RastaBuddhaTao has gotten himself a Daisy. I would think of the Zion as a much more regulated electric Daisy...although I still have yet to try one so this is all a matter of opinion from observation.

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True on both counts. Late to the party, as usual, but at least I made it!

Interesting parallel, the Daisy and Zion. I look forward to trying both, because I have a feeling the Zion will join the growing collection sooner rather than later...

How far do you push in the baskets? I would love a picture, from anyone willing.

thekarmawhore said:

I've settled on always using screens 'basket style', that is, the open end of the screen towards the heater, dome towards the mouth.

This is because after much testing I've found that screens oriented this way stay much more open and clean much longer for me. The heat of the end of the load seems to dry the material out to the point that one last stir and it all blows right out leaving the flow path open to its full diameter. I'm lazy and like the extra time I get before needing a deeper clean.

Screens installed the other way leave a little crevice all around that never fully cleans out with stirring and blowing, and thus the effective diameter of the flow path reduces much more quickly for me.

It will be interesting to get other screen opinions and usage tips as more and more Zions make it out into the wild.

Exciting times!

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Totally agree about the clogging, not only the edges but the other end of the screen gets dirtier somehow too, affecting performance sooner and more severely. Basket style it stays cleaner longer and you can even quick clean it with an iso qtip swab without having to remove the screen or clean the stem yet. Also does make smaller loads easier, with even less stirring needs perhaps, and its the only way to use cut iso joints really. Just need to be careful to leave a bit of a glass rim, so the edges of your basket screen don't poke out, risking damage to the heater screen potentially

@IAmKrazy2 as far as you like! Just not too shallow as I mentioned above, make sure you leave a glass rim. I posted several pics in here, more earlier on with beta Zig, and I know when I got Zig & Zen over Christmas I posted a variety of screen set ups (shitty quality ofcourse)

Can't speak for the Zion but keeping the screen clean is for my convection vapes- Lily & Daisy - a must.
Really jealous of you guys in the US, looks like the Zion is going to tick all the boxes!
Damn VAS has me again - I think a single batt preorder may be on the horizon

Same thing with the Herbalizer and ESV. The Firefly is the only pure convection i can think of that doesn't require screen cleaning.

Shit Snacks said:

Ah nice! Forgot they had silicone, that can help pretty much anything seal up for water connection! Just requires two hands typically

@HellsWindStaff ... But come on dude 8 pages?! That sounded like supporting RBT ignoring you bc reading and responding to a diatribe like that would certainly take away some precious build time right?!

Also I can definitely help you on the exotics question: not anytime soon. It is a low low priority, Zions have to be standardized to get upscaled to the full production we all want (ofcourse there also needs to be a demand...). Exotics, particularly a singular custom blank, creates too much potential variation and no room for error if the blank is ruined. Some day maybe additional woods aside from maple will be available, but i dont think a custom blank really ever will... Now the single battery could be different, since it uses much less wood and is a simpler design overall. I think we'll see that in a variety of woods before we see Zion in anything other than maple, and that'd be more likely to accept a blank if they ever are at all

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Ultimately why I scrapped it, I like to write and what can I say, it was a subject close to home (small business and how to operate one) but it was straying much too far from the point and I was going through and picking things apart too much. Its a pretty good read though I saved it Appreciate the response though man and I can 100% understand that, I actually figured I would be totally responsible for anything that happened to the blank during manufacturing, and not having it as a priority now is totally fine (nor was it expected) maybe something to do down the line.

I actually figured the Zion having a bit of a thicker body would enable it to work with a wider range of woods, but truthfully a custom single batt was going to be more my style. Just thought maybe the wood would be too thin in certain spots, I was inquiring about a FW3 made of a burl and that was a problem we were figuring we would be encountering. I look forward to the future thanks again for the response

Edit: @steama it hurt your brain? That sucks. Keep in mind, I'm not some guy whose complaining about him pushing back the product. I think they should be perfected before going out. But, as someone who works at a small business, not checking your emails and ignoring customers is a bad practice. You know who customers who hit me up asking for stuff do when I don't respond for over a week? And then they ask how to get in touch, and they still don't get a response? They buy their stuff elsewhere. Sorry you don't agree and that thought "hurts your brain." I've said my peace on it, but I don't think that's some foreign idea that should be so hard to wrap your brain around.

IAmKrazy2 said:

How far do you push in the baskets? I would love a picture, from anyone willing.

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My basket starts about a centimeter in from the end. I no longer adjust its position, this is my preferred max load size so I can fill, or use less if I want. The old new screens are wicked tight so some rework might be needed to get them to fit. I hear the new new screens are a tad smaller. The og dome screens are perfect from the get go.

BE SUPER CAREFUL PRESSING SCREENS IN/OUT, WEAR GLOVES IF POSSIBLE!

I can't stress it enough. Ask yourself ' If the glass breaks right now, am I going to lacerate the fuck out of myself?' And if yes, rethink what you're doing. Put on some gloves. Nobody gets cut by their Zion gear, OK?

your pal,
thekarmawhore

Hope this doesn't offend anyone. Keep on the road

IAmKrazy2 said:

The Daisy is faster, with even cooler vapor than the Zion. I think the vapor "quality" is better in the Zion though, with less lurning curve.

The Daisy is/was still one of the best vapes IMO. But i can certainly see myself using the Zion much more, and sharing it with much more people, with much less chance of combustion.

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The two are definitely similar in that I found both very intuitive, and got clouds from both very easily; They deliver their clouds kind of differently, and I'm really happy with both.

thekarmawhore said:

I've settled on always using screens 'basket style', that is, the open end of the screen towards the heater, dome towards the mouth.

This is because after much testing I've found that screens oriented this way stay much more open and clean much longer for me. The heat of the end of the load seems to dry the material out to the point that one last stir and it all blows right out leaving the flow path open to its full diameter. I'm lazy and like the extra time I get before needing a deeper clean.

Screens installed the other way leave a little crevice all around that never fully cleans out with stirring and blowing, and thus the effective diameter of the flow path reduces much more quickly for me.

It will be interesting to get other screen opinions and usage tips as more and more Zions make it out into the wild.

Exciting times!

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This bears investigation. I can't wait to try.

thekarmawhore said:

My basket starts about a centimeter in from the end. I no longer adjust its position, this is my preferred max load size so I can fill, or use less if I want. The old new screens are wicked tight so some rework might be needed to get them to fit. I hear the new new screens are a tad smaller. The og dome screens are perfect from the get go.

BE SUPER CAREFUL PRESSING SCREENS IN/OUT, WEAR GLOVES IF POSSIBLE!

I can't stress it enough. Ask yourself ' If the glass breaks right now, am I going to lacerate the fuck out of myself?' And if yes, rethink what you're doing. Put on some gloves. Nobody gets cut by their Zion gear, OK?

your pal,
thekarmawhore

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Good lookin out. Safety 3rd, class.

And I think someone mentioned using whole nugs in their stems; I do this exclusively. This is also how I use my daisy. Whole nug, then stir after a few hits. Ain't got all day to get that vapor, son.

I fucked combustion completely with the help of Zion (and Daisy). Thanks @RastaBuddhaTao & @TriiKLe

For what it's worth, I haven't felt the need to run either of them through water, so the lack of water tool adapters hasn't really been a problem! Switching from combustion to vapor involved a lot of coughing at first, for me. Zion only rarely has been hot enough to make me cough, and I have never personally combusted or even charred (I do get hot spots around the edge sometimes, but only a few shades darker than everything else). My buddy inhaled longer than is recommended and charred the load, but it is to be expected and there was no ash. He combusts in anything that's button controlled, so it's par for the course. So many burnt tasting wax coils... I digress. Personally, I mashed a nug in the stem (all with huge payload sizes -- THANKS RBT!!) and started vaping no problem the first time.

Copacetic said:

We (all of us outside the U.S.) can use a package forwarding company if we like.

https://www.shipito.com/


From - http://www.rastabuddhatao.net/shipping :

"Will you be shipping units outside of the USA?

Other than the Lifetime Zion’s already sold we will not be shipped outside of the US due to the cost of shipping, customs and international safety certification requirements. The only shipments planned outside the US are the 50 beta units of the single and manual battery units for development purposes. Some of our customers may choose to use a third party shipping company, however RastaBuddhaTao does not recommend this practice but will still honor the warranty. However, will only pay US rates for the return shipping and is not responsible for its whereabouts once it leaves the US."

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Thanks @Copacetic

In da cart she goes, VAS, YOLO and all that

Let's hope Shipito doesn't dick me about! Can't wait

I am very interested in this vape, prob going to be pre ordering in first part of Feb, seems like it would be a great portable to add to the collection and I like to support the latest and locally US made vapes.

Don't worry about the CS drama that was nothing compared to what I have seen in my 11+ years in retail doing CS every day.
As someone who should have stayed in engineering school so I could hide in the lab and tinker with hardware as you now can @RBT you have earned my respect for responding honestly when you didn't have to and learning from the issue at hand.
Keep up the good work, and hopefully I will be pre-ordering soon!

@Robob you won't be disappointed with this vaporizer and by the looks of it I doubt you'll be disappointed in the Zion experience. All it takes is patience at this time in the game and all will be very pleased. But if it's a need now type of vaporizer purchase then a person should look elsewhere for now.

Happy fun day Sunday all !!!!

Alan Partridge said:

Now I have this and the Grasshopper on preorder.... it's the tortoise vs the hare in the race to my loving arms.

But who will win?

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IMO the ZION will ALWAYS win!

I have plenty of ways to get myself "elevated" I have no need to push a manufacturer of a new product in an emerging market to rush a product to me that may make it less QC tested or missing intended features than originally promised.
Just because time had to be dedicated to answering questions already posted or put out fires to people who feel entitled to an answer before others because their money should "mean" more than the other customers ahead of you.

TLDR I understand how hard it is these days to bring a product to market and keeping your vision of said product intact all the way through without giving into bean counters, pissy customers or lawyer types is quite hard.

That being said can I cut the line? lol JK

Alan Partridge said:

Now I have this and the Grasshopper on preorder.... it's the tortoise vs the hare in the race to my loving arms.

But who will win?

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I was in the same boat. 2013 Grasshopper backer. Zion won. Still no Grasshopper. Knowing nothing about when you ordered your GH, I'd still bet that you'll see your Zion first.

I also expect the zion I pre order to beat the GH but look forward to both. I tire of purchasing firefly batteries (although I hear them shits fit into a FF2 I will glue my own tabs on haha)

Well it's a sightly different situation with me, but what I can say on that score is that I got involved with the Zion a while after I pre-ordered the elusive (@least for me) Hopper from those boys in the Lab.

Needless to say, I do not yet have my Hopper, however . . . .

Ahhhh now don't ya just love these little impromptu Sunday get-togethers . . . . and, yep, I guess I will need a bigger table for the full family portrait which will have to happen at some point . . .


Blessings.

I like the screens dome side towards the heater. As @thekarmawhore states there is a bit of an issue around the outer edge with restriction caused by un- or under-vaped material. And/or claim build-up on the screen. My solution is to turn up the heat to 11 and take a few hits from just the clogged screen. It can also be pushed closer to fine tune the results. This is a fun, easy, and rewarding way to maintain the screen between deep cleanings.

That is a fine collection you have there @VegNVape I see your into the wood thing, except for the lone EVO lol I need to get another SC Shredder I lost one years ago at a party and never bought another, TY for reminding me you have exact same color

VegNVape said:

Well it's a sightly different situation with me, but what I can say on that score is that I got involved with the Zion a while after I pre-ordered the elusive (@least for me) Hopper from those boys in the Lab.

Needless to say, I do not yet have my Hopper, however . . . .

Ahhhh now don't ya just love these little impromptu Sunday get-togethers . . . . and, yep, I guess I will need a bigger table for the full family portrait which will have to happen at some point . . .


Blessings.

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That's one table full of goodness!

Dude, I'd be afraid to bump that table! Nice collection VegNVape!!